what about destructive feedback or aggression fury? if proxima parries the defender's attacks if s/he has either of those, shouldn't proxima be able to negate it since those abilities trigger when the defender is attacking?
If so, what about stun immunity? Does the ability to be immune to stun proc when the defender is attacking or when the defender is being parried? I'm thinking the latter, so maybe this is simply an ability (so neither defensive nor offensive)?
I haven't tried Proxima against Destructive Feedback.
But (like Magneto*) she does occasionally run into difficulties not experienced by other champions when a node grants abilities beneficial to the Attacker.
So in the current Valentine quest she gives interesting insight into AAR:
As we know, Proxima causes -200% Offensive Ability Accuracy whilst blocking. Global nodes: Proxima's interactions with these nodes are interesting. Even acting without a romantic synergy, she doesn't get stunned by the Hard Head node when she inflicts a Parry.
On the other hand, even with such a partner, she doesn't gain the passive Fury effects from Stunningly Romantic, either. This fits with our general understanding of Offensive Ability Accuracy, and 'node' abilities being affected even if they're positive for the Attacker*.
Interestingly, her reduction of offensive AA doesn't alter the fact that the defender doesn't suffer the initial stun: On her first Parry attempt, she fails to inflict a stun, and switches the Hard Head node into cool-down. To me, this suggests that her ability is reducing the ability accuracy of the stun-reflection, but not the defenders ability to remove it.
Hard Head therefore has two separate effects for the defender - a defensive ability to remove/prevent/be unaffected by a Stun effect, and an offensive ability to inflict it to the Attacker.
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*I took Magneto against Dragon Man in Cav EQ. Dragon Man was standing on a Matador node: It took sooooo long to get any Power...
what about destructive feedback or aggression fury? if proxima parries the defender's attacks if s/he has either of those, shouldn't proxima be able to negate it since those abilities trigger when the defender is attacking?
If so, what about stun immunity? Does the ability to be immune to stun proc when the defender is attacking or when the defender is being parried? I'm thinking the latter, so maybe this is simply an ability (so neither defensive nor offensive)?
Hard Head therefore has two separate effects for the defender - a defensive ability to remove/prevent/be unaffected by a Stun effect, and an offensive ability to inflict it to the Attacker.
.
I think you missed the whole point of this thread. Abilities are classified as offensive or defensive (they aren't though) based on when it activates. Both the parts you mentioned are offensive abilties in context.
The stun shrugging is immune to AAR while the "transfer " if stun isn't. That's the simpler explanation
what about destructive feedback or aggression fury? if proxima parries the defender's attacks if s/he has either of those, shouldn't proxima be able to negate it since those abilities trigger when the defender is attacking?
If so, what about stun immunity? Does the ability to be immune to stun proc when the defender is attacking or when the defender is being parried? I'm thinking the latter, so maybe this is simply an ability (so neither defensive nor offensive)?
Hard Head therefore has two separate effects for the defender - a defensive ability to remove/prevent/be unaffected by a Stun effect, and an offensive ability to inflict it to the Attacker.
.
I think you missed the whole point of this thread. Abilities are classified as offensive or defensive (they aren't though) based on when it activates. Both the parts you mentioned are offensive abilties in context.
The stun shrugging is immune to AAR while the "transfer " if stun isn't. That's the simpler explanation
No, I don't think I missed the point of the thread. I was making observations that supported it and seemed relevant to the questions asked by @thanks4playing
Perhaps I should have added this: Hard Head can, as the thread suggests, take effect -
Offensively, when the Defender is attacking (and being parried)
Defensively, when the Defender ignored an in-coming stun (Ronan's SP1)
Neither offensively not defensively (the delayed Stun effect at the end of Hood's Shock debuff)
In the aim of accuracy though, I'm therefore very happy to re-word my final paragraph by removing any reference at all to 'offensive' or 'defensive':
"Hard Head therefore has two separate effects for the defender - an effect to remove/prevent/be unaffected by a Stun effect, and an effect to inflict it upon the Attacker."
what about destructive feedback or aggression fury? if proxima parries the defender's attacks if s/he has either of those, shouldn't proxima be able to negate it since those abilities trigger when the defender is attacking?
If so, what about stun immunity? Does the ability to be immune to stun proc when the defender is attacking or when the defender is being parried? I'm thinking the latter, so maybe this is simply an ability (so neither defensive nor offensive)?
Hard Head therefore has two separate effects for the defender - a defensive ability to remove/prevent/be unaffected by a Stun effect, and an offensive ability to inflict it to the Attacker.
.
I think you missed the whole point of this thread. Abilities are classified as offensive or defensive (they aren't though) based on when it activates. Both the parts you mentioned are offensive abilties in context.
The stun shrugging is immune to AAR while the "transfer " if stun isn't. That's the simpler explanation
No, I don't think I missed the point of the thread. I was making observations that supported it and seemed relevant to the questions asked by @thanks4playing
Perhaps I should have added this: Hard Head can, as the thread suggests, take effect -
Offensively, when the Defender is attacking (and being parried)
Defensively, when the Defender ignored an in-coming stun (Ronan's SP1)
Neither offensively not defensively (the delayed Stun effect at the end of Hood's Shock debuff)
In the aim of accuracy though, I'm therefore very happy to re-word my final paragraph by removing any reference at all to 'offensive' or 'defensive':
"Hard Head therefore has two separate effects for the defender - an effect to remove/prevent/be unaffected by a Stun effect, and an effect to inflict it upon the Attacker."
The effect to remove/prevent/be immune to the stun is immune to AAR. This is easily testable with a champ like archangel. In that case too the defender does not get stunned but does not stun the attacker either if you parry.
So in keeping with that, the conclusion is simple. Proxima prevents the stun reflect due to her AAR. But cannot inflict stun in the first place since that part is immune to AAR.
If this node is anything like stunning reflectio , then the defender "can't" be stunned. Which in game lingo takes precedence over any other interaction
If so, what about stun immunity? Does the ability to be immune to stun proc when the defender is attacking or when the defender is being parried? I'm thinking the latter, so maybe this is simply an ability (so neither defensive nor offensive)?
Immunity is always active and not subject to AAR
Just to amplify this a bit, immunity is a state. Nothing is triggered when a champion with immunity to any effect is struck by that effect. The effect just doesn't happen, due to the fact that the champion is in a state where the effect doesn't work. The immunity doesn't "trigger" protection. AAR can stop an immunity effect from triggering and being applied to a champion, but once that immunity effect is there nothing more has to happen for the immunity to confer its protection. It is no different from something like armor. Armor confers some damage mitigation, and you can prevent an armor effect from triggering, but if the armor effect is already there nothing "triggers" when you land an attack: the armor effect is simply increasing the champion's armor stat, which reduces incoming damage from attacks.
To ask a point about this, when nebula and untron and such were buffed, apocalypse was able to bypass their immunities. Would that mean he prevented the immunity status effect from applying at fight start or that immunity is indeed a trigger that happens during the fight repeatedly wheneve the effect is placed?
Also in game pretty much all shrug offs accompanied by "immunity" call out
My understanding is that immunity does work by "purifying" the effect every time it lands, but that this "purify" is not the same thing as the Ability "Purify" that players are aware of (and does not work in exactly the same way as the Ability Purify works), and should never have been affected by AAR. This was a case where players momentarily saw the man behind the curtain by accident due to an implementation error.
Comments
But (like Magneto*) she does occasionally run into difficulties not experienced by other champions when a node grants abilities beneficial to the Attacker.
So in the current Valentine quest she gives interesting insight into AAR:
As we know, Proxima causes -200% Offensive Ability Accuracy whilst blocking.
Global nodes:
Proxima's interactions with these nodes are interesting. Even acting without a romantic synergy, she doesn't get stunned by the Hard Head node when she inflicts a Parry.
On the other hand, even with such a partner, she doesn't gain the passive Fury effects from Stunningly Romantic, either. This fits with our general understanding of Offensive Ability Accuracy, and 'node' abilities being affected even if they're positive for the Attacker*.
Interestingly, her reduction of offensive AA doesn't alter the fact that the defender doesn't suffer the initial stun: On her first Parry attempt, she fails to inflict a stun, and switches the Hard Head node into cool-down. To me, this suggests that her ability is reducing the ability accuracy of the stun-reflection, but not the defenders ability to remove it.
Hard Head therefore has two separate effects for the defender - a defensive ability to remove/prevent/be unaffected by a Stun effect, and an offensive ability to inflict it to the Attacker.
---
*I took Magneto against Dragon Man in Cav EQ. Dragon Man was standing on a Matador node: It took sooooo long to get any Power...
The stun shrugging is immune to AAR while the "transfer " if stun isn't. That's the simpler explanation
Perhaps I should have added this: Hard Head can, as the thread suggests, take effect -
- Offensively, when the Defender is attacking (and being parried)
- Defensively, when the Defender ignored an in-coming stun (Ronan's SP1)
- Neither offensively not defensively (the delayed Stun effect at the end of Hood's Shock debuff)
In the aim of accuracy though, I'm therefore very happy to re-word my final paragraph by removing any reference at all to 'offensive' or 'defensive':"Hard Head therefore has two separate effects for the defender - an effect to remove/prevent/be unaffected by a Stun effect, and an effect to inflict it upon the Attacker."
So in keeping with that, the conclusion is simple. Proxima prevents the stun reflect due to her AAR. But cannot inflict stun in the first place since that part is immune to AAR.
If this node is anything like stunning reflectio , then the defender "can't" be stunned. Which in game lingo takes precedence over any other interaction