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Why is progression being slowed down for players?

UnSmurfUnSmurf Member Posts: 17 ★
in General Discussion
Today I noticed that the amount of class catalysts needed to take up a 5 star champion from rank 2 to rank 5 increased from 2 catalysts to 3 with reason not being explained anywhere. And considering the fact that there are known tendencies in algorithms , that leave player with abundance of catalyst of one or two classes and lack of other ones. Need to open more t4cc crystals will lead to a bigger number of catalysts going to overflow and then to waste , because there’s no way to prevent getting more of the same class once you already maxed out your vault. What’s more ,in general getting 3 t4cc of needed class takes more time then getting 2 , that alongside needing more t1 Alfa for rank ups of five star champions and and only 5 and 6 star champions being allowed in act 6 makes life of uncollected players even more difficult. It’s good enough that title of an uncollected players has been devalued drastically lately, now being brought down to the likes of conqueror and proven players.. Why also make rank ups more difficult??

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  • UnSmurfUnSmurf Member Posts: 17 ★
    To clarify sth, by devaluation of the title of uncollected players I meant that new content doesn’t allow uncollected players in now , the rewards for uncollected players now don’t include a chance of getting 5 star awakening gem or at least crystal for uncollected players , since they are now equal to every title bellow them and giving a chance of awakening 5 star champs to proven or contenders is game breaking, but sure make uncollected players suffer. And what makes me write about it, is that cavalier isn’t a title that one can simply get if they are skilled enough , there’s a high rng aspect to it. One needs to have right champions with immunities among his 5 and 6 star roaster to not get melted and not spend hundreds of units to just get through biohazard sentiel in quest of act6 chapter 1.
  • Draconic_12Draconic_12 Member Posts: 997 ★★★★★
    Kabam stated that uncollected is pretty much the new conqueror
  • DNA3000DNA3000 Member, Guardian Posts: 21,033 Guardian
    UnSmurf said:

    Today I noticed that the amount of class catalysts needed to take up a 5 star champion from rank 2 to rank 5 increased from 2 catalysts to 3 with reason not being explained anywhere.

    As far as I am aware, it has always taken three T4CC catalysts to take a 5* from rank 2 to rank 3, four T4CC to go from rank 3 to rank 4, and six T4CC to go from rank 4 to rank 5.
  • BuffBeastBuffBeast Member Posts: 1,075 ★★★★
    UnSmurf said:

    To clarify sth, by devaluation of the title of uncollected players I meant that new content doesn’t allow uncollected players in now , the rewards for uncollected players now don’t include a chance of getting 5 star awakening gem or at least crystal for uncollected players , since they are now equal to every title bellow them and giving a chance of awakening 5 star champs to proven or contenders is game breaking, but sure make uncollected players suffer. And what makes me write about it, is that cavalier isn’t a title that one can simply get if they are skilled enough , there’s a high rng aspect to it. One needs to have right champions with immunities among his 5 and 6 star roaster to not get melted and not spend hundreds of units to just get through biohazard sentiel in quest of act6 chapter 1.

    You do realize you can just bring a bleed immune champ and not his his block, right? Seems like you need skill to me. Also, if anything, UC and lower players are getting a HUGE head start nowadays. The last two gifting events gave contenders 6*s (which they DEFINITELY don’t need) and they still can’t get through content cause they’re used to steamrolling everything. But if you truly can’t beat that mini boss, expand your roster and wait. If not, get better. Simple
  • UnSmurfUnSmurf Member Posts: 17 ★
    Ok I digress, apparently I was wrong, for some reason I believed it always was 3 t4cc for a 4 star to rank 5 and 2 t4cc for a 5 star to rank 3. Tho It doesn’t take away the fact that uncollected players are being treated unfairly and are being slowed down
    Gamer said:

    UnSmurf said:

    Today I noticed that the amount of class catalysts needed to take up a 5 star champion from rank 2 to rank 5 increased from 2 catalysts to 3 with reason not being explained anywhere. And considering the fact that there are known tendencies in algorithms , that leave player with abundance of catalyst of one or two classes and lack of other ones. Need to open more t4cc crystals will lead to a bigger number of catalysts going to overflow and then to waste , because there’s no way to prevent getting more of the same class once you already maxed out your vault. What’s more ,in general getting 3 t4cc of needed class takes more time then getting 2 , that alongside needing more t1 Alfa for rank ups of five star champions and and only 5 and 6 star champions being allowed in act 6 makes life of uncollected players even more difficult. It’s good enough that title of an uncollected players has been devalued drastically lately, now being brought down to the likes of conqueror and proven players.. Why also make rank ups more difficult??

    I’m sorry but it always Ben 3
    Yeah, sorry apparently I got confused there. I stand corrected , Tho I believed dead serious it was 2 before for a 5 star to rank 3 and 3 t4cc for a four star to rank 5. However ,it doesn’t take away from the fact that uncollected players are being slowed down in their progression
  • DemonzfyreDemonzfyre Member Posts: 23,339 ★★★★★
    UnSmurf said:

    Ok I digress, apparently I was wrong, for some reason I believed it always was 3 t4cc for a 4 star to rank 5 and 2 t4cc for a 5 star to rank 3. Tho It doesn’t take away the fact that uncollected players are being treated unfairly and are being slowed down

    Gamer said:

    UnSmurf said:

    Today I noticed that the amount of class catalysts needed to take up a 5 star champion from rank 2 to rank 5 increased from 2 catalysts to 3 with reason not being explained anywhere. And considering the fact that there are known tendencies in algorithms , that leave player with abundance of catalyst of one or two classes and lack of other ones. Need to open more t4cc crystals will lead to a bigger number of catalysts going to overflow and then to waste , because there’s no way to prevent getting more of the same class once you already maxed out your vault. What’s more ,in general getting 3 t4cc of needed class takes more time then getting 2 , that alongside needing more t1 Alfa for rank ups of five star champions and and only 5 and 6 star champions being allowed in act 6 makes life of uncollected players even more difficult. It’s good enough that title of an uncollected players has been devalued drastically lately, now being brought down to the likes of conqueror and proven players.. Why also make rank ups more difficult??

    I’m sorry but it always Ben 3
    Yeah, sorry apparently I got confused there. I stand corrected , Tho I believed dead serious it was 2 before for a 5 star to rank 3 and 3 t4cc for a four star to rank 5. However ,it doesn’t take away from the fact that uncollected players are being slowed down in their progression
    No they aren't. Players are progressing faster than they ever have. It's actually a huge problem. You get 5*'s way faster than you ever have and content was been nerfed as well. Players are getting to Cavalier too fast and aren't prepared for content because of how fast they can progress.
  • UnSmurfUnSmurf Member Posts: 17 ★
    BuffBeast said:

    UnSmurf said:

    To clarify sth, by devaluation of the title of uncollected players I meant that new content doesn’t allow uncollected players in now , the rewards for uncollected players now don’t include a chance of getting 5 star awakening gem or at least crystal for uncollected players , since they are now equal to every title bellow them and giving a chance of awakening 5 star champs to proven or contenders is game breaking, but sure make uncollected players suffer. And what makes me write about it, is that cavalier isn’t a title that one can simply get if they are skilled enough , there’s a high rng aspect to it. One needs to have right champions with immunities among his 5 and 6 star roaster to not get melted and not spend hundreds of units to just get through biohazard sentiel in quest of act6 chapter 1.

    You do realize you can just bring a bleed immune champ and not his his block, right? Seems like you need skill to me. Also, if anything, UC and lower players are getting a HUGE head start nowadays. The last two gifting events gave contenders 6*s (which they DEFINITELY don’t need) and they still can’t get through content cause they’re used to steamrolling everything. But if you truly can’t beat that mini boss, expand your roster and wait. If not, get better. Simple
    I have 8 fives star champions and one six star champion -none of them bleed immune, in fact none of them have any immunities at all, I have completed act 5 within 2 month of playing on my new account and uncollected within 3 weeks, 3 star Cgr being my fifth most powerful champion at the moment, I can ensure you skill isn’t the problem. But that’s the thing, it’s rng you can wait for months and not get sth you need, where as uncollected you could’ve gotten just by being off with bane transfer and collector fight.
  • DNA3000DNA3000 Member, Guardian Posts: 21,033 Guardian
    UnSmurf said:

    However ,it doesn’t take away from the fact that uncollected players are being slowed down in their progression

    Slowed down compared to what? Compared to any moment in time before this, Uncollected players are, or at least have the opportunity to progress faster than ever before.

    The problem, I think, is that you aren't comparing Uncollected today with Uncollected yesterday. You're comparing Uncollected to Cavalier and Thronebreaker. When Uncollected was the highest progress title, there was nothing higher to compare it to. Uncollected was the fastest there was. When Cavalier came out, Uncollected was not the fastest there was: Cavalier was, on a relative basis, faster. But when Cavalier came out, Uncollected didn't slow down, Uncollected overall sped up.

    If you judge the reward earning rates of the game by comparing today to yesterday, progress has gotten faster and reward earning rates have gotten higher over time, for everyone. But if you judge things by looking at the highest progress tier of the game and think only about how much lower you are than they are, then everything looks like it gets slower over time. That's because progress tiers that exist today didn't exist in the past, so everything is a smaller fraction of the absolute best.

    But if you look at things that way, you won't last long in a progressional game. Games like this are powered by small amounts of envy, because the game wants players to aspire to progress higher and follow the fastest players in the game. But large amounts of envy will eat you alive, and the game does not care if you think you deserve what the higher progress players are getting but don't want to spend the effort to reach that tier of progress. It will pulverize you to dust and move on to the next player in line.
  • UnSmurfUnSmurf Member Posts: 17 ★
    Demonzfyre said:

    UnSmurf said:

    Ok I digress, apparently I was wrong, for some reason I believed it always was 3 t4cc for a 4 star to rank 5 and 2 t4cc for a 5 star to rank 3. Tho It doesn’t take away the fact that uncollected players are being treated unfairly and are being slowed down

    Gamer said:

    UnSmurf said:

    Today I noticed that the amount of class catalysts needed to take up a 5 star champion from rank 2 to rank 5 increased from 2 catalysts to 3 with reason not being explained anywhere. And considering the fact that there are known tendencies in algorithms , that leave player with abundance of catalyst of one or two classes and lack of other ones. Need to open more t4cc crystals will lead to a bigger number of catalysts going to overflow and then to waste , because there’s no way to prevent getting more of the same class once you already maxed out your vault. What’s more ,in general getting 3 t4cc of needed class takes more time then getting 2 , that alongside needing more t1 Alfa for rank ups of five star champions and and only 5 and 6 star champions being allowed in act 6 makes life of uncollected players even more difficult. It’s good enough that title of an uncollected players has been devalued drastically lately, now being brought down to the likes of conqueror and proven players.. Why also make rank ups more difficult??

    I’m sorry but it always Ben 3
    Yeah, sorry apparently I got confused there. I stand corrected , Tho I believed dead serious it was 2 before for a 5 star to rank 3 and 3 t4cc for a four star to rank 5. However ,it doesn’t take away from the fact that uncollected players are being slowed down in their progression
    No they aren't. Players are progressing faster than they ever have. It's actually a huge problem. You get 5*'s way faster than you ever have and content was been nerfed as well. Players are getting to Cavalier too fast and aren't prepared for content because of how fast they can progress.
    You can only get cavalier fast if you get lucky with you five star pulls, and that’s the thing I know a ton of people who have rank 4 five star champions, they aren’t uncollected yet . Just giving more opportunities to get champions to people isn’t any kind of problem, especially if they don’t know how to use it. And there’s no such thing as getting title to fast, it opens more content to you, but no one is in charge of you being able to complete it . Also gifting events are so rng based, a few outliers getting six star champions don’t break the game in any way. And how are uncollected players given a head-start when all they need to progress is getting a five star champion with immunities, and May be awakening gem to access some utility of a champion? And if you wanna say the amount of five star champions they can get is boosted , well I would have to disagree on that one. Uncollected always was the title that got you rolling, gave access to five star shards acquisition , six star shards and allowed you to do new interesting content. Nowadays new content is only available for cavaliers and thronebreakers , the rewards are being increased for all titles, but what uncollected used to have they don’t have anymore. For example summoner showdown always had offered 5 star shards for its completion, now only cavalier and thronebreakers can get any shards or anything from it. And the fights aren’t that tough, I used to do them with my 4 star roaster (well I managed to solo only two rounds ever, but still ) so to say that if you aren’t cavalier yet you don’t even have a roaster/skill for this type of events to complain is wrong. Tbh I’m just a bit bitter, I recently came back to the game and started a new account, I got uncollected within 3 weeks of me playing, my fifth stingiest champion being maxed 3 star cgr. But then I just had terrible luck with my five star champions atm, yesterday was 2 month of me playing the game, I have already completed act 5 , got my first 6 star champion and 8 five star champions, none of them are bleed immune, or have any immunities at all for that matter and I’m just stuck waiting and grinding to either get a ton of units and revives to revive my way through bio hazard sentiel or to finally get a bleed immune champion
  • DNA3000DNA3000 Member, Guardian Posts: 21,033 Guardian
    UnSmurf said:

    BuffBeast said:

    UnSmurf said:

    To clarify sth, by devaluation of the title of uncollected players I meant that new content doesn’t allow uncollected players in now , the rewards for uncollected players now don’t include a chance of getting 5 star awakening gem or at least crystal for uncollected players , since they are now equal to every title bellow them and giving a chance of awakening 5 star champs to proven or contenders is game breaking, but sure make uncollected players suffer. And what makes me write about it, is that cavalier isn’t a title that one can simply get if they are skilled enough , there’s a high rng aspect to it. One needs to have right champions with immunities among his 5 and 6 star roaster to not get melted and not spend hundreds of units to just get through biohazard sentiel in quest of act6 chapter 1.

    You do realize you can just bring a bleed immune champ and not his his block, right? Seems like you need skill to me. Also, if anything, UC and lower players are getting a HUGE head start nowadays. The last two gifting events gave contenders 6*s (which they DEFINITELY don’t need) and they still can’t get through content cause they’re used to steamrolling everything. But if you truly can’t beat that mini boss, expand your roster and wait. If not, get better. Simple
    I have 8 fives star champions and one six star champion -none of them bleed immune, in fact none of them have any immunities at all, I have completed act 5 within 2 month of playing on my new account and uncollected within 3 weeks, 3 star Cgr being my fifth most powerful champion at the moment, I can ensure you skill isn’t the problem. But that’s the thing, it’s rng you can wait for months and not get sth you need, where as uncollected you could’ve gotten just by being off with bane transfer and collector fight.
    Skill might not be your problem, but impatience is. This game is a progressional game: it rewards progress. Progress is earned in part by completing content, and in part by growing roster. If you have nine 5* and higher champions, you might think the game is ruled by RNG. But in fact, RNG is only a major factor if you have a tiny roster. If you build a large roster, the impact of RNG drops off and almost completely disappears over time. You could get lucky, but if you don't get lucky then you need to be patient and build up your roster until you have the kinds of champions you need, or think you need, to continue to progress through the content.

    You can do things to build roster faster. You can earn as much shards as possible doing as much content that contains them as possible. You can grind arena. You can even spend money if you choose to spend money. Or you can just have patience and let your roster build over time. Which ever you choose, understand building roster is part of the game. It is not some thing the game does to punish you. It is a big chunk of the game itself.
  • DemonzfyreDemonzfyre Member Posts: 23,339 ★★★★★
    You need to stick to Act 5. Finish it 100%. Don't even worry about becoming Cavalier until you've done Act 5 100%. Do the Monthly Event Quests as well. 5* shards are everywhere. They are a very abundant resource. Develop your roster before heading into Act 6. You'll fare much better and spend less units.

    In comparison to you, I couldn't R5 any of my 5*'s until I did Act 5 100%. We were beating the collector with R5 4*'s and clearing act 5 with 4*'s. Slow down and take your time. You'll have a much better time.
  • UnSmurfUnSmurf Member Posts: 17 ★
    DNA3000 said:

    UnSmurf said:

    However ,it doesn’t take away from the fact that uncollected players are being slowed down in their progression

    Slowed down compared to what? Compared to any moment in time before this, Uncollected players are, or at least have the opportunity to progress faster than ever before.

    The problem, I think, is that you aren't comparing Uncollected today with Uncollected yesterday. You're comparing Uncollected to Cavalier and Thronebreaker. When Uncollected was the highest progress title, there was nothing higher to compare it to. Uncollected was the fastest there was. When Cavalier came out, Uncollected was not the fastest there was: Cavalier was, on a relative basis, faster. But when Cavalier came out, Uncollected didn't slow down, Uncollected overall sped up.

    If you judge the reward earning rates of the game by comparing today to yesterday, progress has gotten faster and reward earning rates have gotten higher over time, for everyone. But if you judge things by looking at the highest progress tier of the game and think only about how much lower you are than they are, then everything looks like it gets slower over time. That's because progress tiers that exist today didn't exist in the past, so everything is a smaller fraction of the absolute best.

    But if you look at things that way, you won't last long in a progressional game. Games like this are powered by small amounts of envy, because the game wants players to aspire to progress higher and follow the fastest players in the game. But large amounts of envy will eat you alive, and the game does not care if you think you deserve what the higher progress players are getting but don't want to spend the effort to reach that tier of progress. It will pulverize you to dust and move on to the next player in line.
    Nah mate, I totally agree with you on this.
    And I don’t necessarily compare UC to what cavalier have and thronebreakers do (especially not with the thronebreakers) I’m just saying that UC players are getting left behind, no need to get us a s good of a rewards as higher progression level players have, but allow us to play the content with respective scaling of rewards. And yeah I compare the pace of progression to “yesterday” it did in fact slowed down relative to the games state. Like the offers we had this year are the same as last year, despite the value of thing in them having decreased significantly. And I’m also bitter about not being able to get a 5 star gem or crystal next month. Like really, what use can an UC player have for a 4 star gem CRYSTAL I have a bunch of those from simply solo event crystals , and 4 star champions aren’t allowed in act 6 , however just this month we at least had a chance for the crystal as uncollected players, but now this title is being brought down and made equal to all of the lesser ones. It feels the same as when Cavalier players last fall/winter didn’t get offers that would be better than those of uncollected players. But at least then it got resolved
  • UnSmurfUnSmurf Member Posts: 17 ★
    Demonzfyre said:

    You need to stick to Act 5. Finish it 100%. Don't even worry about becoming Cavalier until you've done Act 5 100%. Do the Monthly Event Quests as well. 5* shards are everywhere. They are a very abundant resource. Develop your roster before heading into Act 6. You'll fare much better and spend less units.

    In comparison to you, I couldn't R5 any of my 5*'s until I did Act 5 100%. We were beating the collector with R5 4*'s and clearing act 5 with 4*'s. Slow down and take your time. You'll have a much better time.

    I did the same lol, I’m not a new player, I’m a returning one. And the fact that I have a hypothetical opportunity to rank 5 a five star before getting cavalier doesn’t mean I need it for progression. I got uncollected with 1 r5 four star 1 rank 3 five star 2 rank4 four stars and one maxed 3 star champion. So the feeling that you gracefully talk down to me is kinda unpleasant when we are all the same, and I have been in your shoes.. Anyways , of course I will grind ever quests and side events to expand my roaster , tho all I really need is a good bleed immune champ and I know I can get the cavalier within 2 weeks after that. I’m just bitter because of uncollected being treated as any other lesser title ( lmao call me a pessimist since I see it that way not not the other way around )
  • UnSmurfUnSmurf Member Posts: 17 ★
    DNA3000 said:

    UnSmurf said:

    BuffBeast said:

    UnSmurf said:

    To clarify sth, by devaluation of the title of uncollected players I meant that new content doesn’t allow uncollected players in now , the rewards for uncollected players now don’t include a chance of getting 5 star awakening gem or at least crystal for uncollected players , since they are now equal to every title bellow them and giving a chance of awakening 5 star champs to proven or contenders is game breaking, but sure make uncollected players suffer. And what makes me write about it, is that cavalier isn’t a title that one can simply get if they are skilled enough , there’s a high rng aspect to it. One needs to have right champions with immunities among his 5 and 6 star roaster to not get melted and not spend hundreds of units to just get through biohazard sentiel in quest of act6 chapter 1.

    You do realize you can just bring a bleed immune champ and not his his block, right? Seems like you need skill to me. Also, if anything, UC and lower players are getting a HUGE head start nowadays. The last two gifting events gave contenders 6*s (which they DEFINITELY don’t need) and they still can’t get through content cause they’re used to steamrolling everything. But if you truly can’t beat that mini boss, expand your roster and wait. If not, get better. Simple
    I have 8 fives star champions and one six star champion -none of them bleed immune, in fact none of them have any immunities at all, I have completed act 5 within 2 month of playing on my new account and uncollected within 3 weeks, 3 star Cgr being my fifth most powerful champion at the moment, I can ensure you skill isn’t the problem. But that’s the thing, it’s rng you can wait for months and not get sth you need, where as uncollected you could’ve gotten just by being off with bane transfer and collector fight.
    Skill might not be your problem, but impatience is. This game is a progressional game: it rewards progress. Progress is earned in part by completing content, and in part by growing roster. If you have nine 5* and higher champions, you might think the game is ruled by RNG. But in fact, RNG is only a major factor if you have a tiny roster. If you build a large roster, the impact of RNG drops off and almost completely disappears over time. You could get lucky, but if you don't get lucky then you need to be patient and build up your roster until you have the kinds of champions you need, or think you need, to continue to progress through the content.

    You can do things to build roster faster. You can earn as much shards as possible doing as much content that contains them as possible. You can grind arena. You can even spend money if you choose to spend money. Or you can just have patience and let your roster build over time. Which ever you choose, understand building roster is part of the game. It is not some thing the game does to punish you. It is a big chunk of the game itself.
    You’re most definitely right, thanks for taking the time off of your day and reasoning with an impatient and fairly entitled guy ( Hopefully this kind of entitlement is only present in my life towards this game, otherwise I’m heck of a person to deal with)
  • UnSmurfUnSmurf Member Posts: 17 ★
    Demonzfyre said:

    You need to stick to Act 5. Finish it 100%. Don't even worry about becoming Cavalier until you've done Act 5 100%. Do the Monthly Event Quests as well. 5* shards are everywhere. They are a very abundant resource. Develop your roster before heading into Act 6. You'll fare much better and spend less units.

    In comparison to you, I couldn't R5 any of my 5*'s until I did Act 5 100%. We were beating the collector with R5 4*'s and clearing act 5 with 4*'s. Slow down and take your time. You'll have a much better time.

    Also man, sorry if I sounded mean , entitled or boasty . You’re a great guy and I just had a bad one
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