Again, the larger rework was likely Guillotine. This seems like a smaller values change.
Really? This wasn’t the overhaul? Did you also know the floor is made of floor and that every 60 seconds a minute passes?
Yet here we are month after month with people expecting more.
You're perpetuating the myth that tune ups and moderates have to have less impact on a champion. If you mean that moderates and tune ups add less abilities to a champion then please clarify that, but as of now, you are being unclear and your post implies that the buff is not as impactful because it is a moderate or a tuneup.
Moderates and tune ups can still add fewer abilities to a champion and be a great buff.
Moleman got a tune up and he's a beast, DD HK got an overhaul and he's less appreciated.
I'll wait to comment on his damage, but it seems really great. But you can see now, that his utility isn't likely going to be used much.
This is pretty much where I’m at. I think the damage he’s going to getting from this buff is going to be fairly substantial. More potent armour breaks for longer, significantly more attack, and better shocks. In that department, this buff is good.
I think where this buff is failing is in the utility and practicality department.
90% shock duration reduction is great, especially since it’s also effects (beats me how the god of thunder takes some damage from shock)
But outside of that, it’s unbelievably weak. -20% ability accuracy reduction per shock? That you realistically need to get to an SP3 to access? It’s worse than a slow on an SP3, and no one uses them
Frequent armour breaks are a bit better, but again, they’re practically locked behind an SP3. While armour break you can maybe get away with not having immediately, it still makes him significantly inferior to other options. Corvus? Parry. OG Thor? Parry. Sym Spidey? Heavy Attack. Medusa? Medium attack.
You see what I’m getting at.
The one place I can see him being potentially useful is nodes where either shocks or lots of debuffs are required. He’s not going to be the best for them, but I don’t think he’s going to be that far away from the top, and shock is still a relatively uncommon debuff
I don’t think this is another Gamora/Nova/Ronin buff. I think this will make a somewhat meaningful impact upon the champion. But it once again feels like one or two more lines of text could have made him so much better
‘Heavy Attacks inflict armour break’
‘While under the effects of armour break, opponents cannot evade’
One thing I am incredibly glad to see is that he is nowhere near as sig or synergy dependent now. I think that’s a massive win for a lot of players in the 6 star meta, who maybe get him as one of their first 6 stars. But I think his sig is beneficial enough to also make prestige w****s who invested sigs into him not feel like they are wasted from a gameplay standpoint
Just found out that he has a synergy with Silver Centurion allowing for shocks of heavy. If that's not changed, that could be pretty good for him.
So it looks like the playstyle with this synergy will be parry/heavy until you get to your sp3. I believe he has a two hit heavy attack, so you’ll have about 26 hits on your combo from strictly parry/heavy when you reach that point. I’d say keep throwing that until you’re just shy of activating Boom of the Gods. Bait whatever special they’ve got, then parry and fire your sp3.
After that, lay into them. Boon should get you to your sp2 very quickly, so fire that off for a long lasting armor break throughout your Thunder God’s Wrath phase, then spam sp1 (which you’ll also get immediately thanks to Boon) to keep triggering his burst of physical damage on stuns. Once Wrath is over, just rinse repeat. Although I don’t imagine there are many fights in the game that will require much more than one rotation of that.
Utility is a bit sparse, as others have noted. Damage could be very solid, however, and if he is a viable EMP mod counter, that’s a nice bit of niche utility to go with reliable armor break and shock damage.
I think that we all need to remember when Kabam announced doing monthly buffs last year, one of there focuses was helping progressing players… not end gamers. I think that is great and all, but so far, IMO anyway, we’ve gotten like 5-6 buffs in just under a year that actually impactful for Cav and beyond. It would be nice if more of these buffs made me want to use these champs in EQ or act 7.I would list the 5-6 I think that were useful for everyone , but no doubt that will just cause a ruckus and bickering.
For me, Thor’s buff would be awesome if I pulled him as one of my first 4* in act 3/4. For me now, my duped 5* will stay at r2 and my 6* will stay unleveled at r1.
I'll wait to comment on his damage, but it seems really great. But you can see now, that his utility isn't likely going to be used much.
I don’t think this is another Gamora/Nova/Ronin buff. I think this will make a somewhat meaningful impact upon the champion. But it once again feels like one or two more lines of text could have made him so much better
I want to clarify that I agree with this, I don’t think Thor will be another gamora type buff. My comment likening those two was purely based on the utility aspect.
Thor’s damage looks like it’s going to be great, the buff in that regard is a win for me as long as it holds up. The utility is what seems disappointing to me. It looks like BP OG type DAAR, but locked behind an sp3 instead of 10 hits or an sp1
Again, the larger rework was likely Guillotine. This seems like a smaller values change.
Really? This wasn’t the overhaul? Did you also know the floor is made of floor and that every 60 seconds a minute passes?
Yet here we are month after month with people expecting more.
You're perpetuating the myth that tune ups and moderates have to have less impact on a champion. If you mean that moderates and tune ups add less abilities to a champion then please clarify that, but as of now, you are being unclear and your post implies that the buff is not as impactful because it is a moderate or a tuneup.
Moderates and tune ups can still add fewer abilities to a champion and be a great buff.
Moleman got a tune up and he's a beast, DD HK got an overhaul and he's less appreciated.
What myth? It entirely depends on the Champ and what a values change will impact. Some Champs are significantly changed. Others are moderately affected. They're not all going to be groundbreaking.
To me, it looks like those who've already ranked him up for prestige will be happy that he's not a complete noodle anymore, but I still don't really see a reason to rank him up beyond prestige. He can probably deal some really solid damage once you've ramped him up but he sorely lacks the utility of others in his class.
He most likely won't be competing for the top spot but I don't think every buffed champion needs to. It seems like he'll move up a fair few pegs in the tier rankings and you'll be less disappointed if you pull him at an early stage or if you need to rank him up for prestige at a later stage, but he probably won't be people's first choice for most content.
That said, I do really need a shock dealer for nodes like Thunderstruck. I'll probably go with Horsewoman Storm (since I have her and not him as a 6*) but he could be a solid second option for other people hunting for a similar champ. Plus, if his shock reduction works for all shock effects - both debuffs and passives - that can really come in handy from time to time.
Hopefully he’s just better and I can play a Thor champ and feel he’s useful. I don’t like ranking him up only for prestige, which I didn’t. I actually want to use the champs and enjoy the game.
Looks like he will be better. How much better we will see when it is live. I’m cautiously optimistic since this buff reminds me of Kingpin and Falcon. He’s abilities are still in there but the numbers went up and perhaps they flow better.
Again, the larger rework was likely Guillotine. This seems like a smaller values change.
Really? This wasn’t the overhaul? Did you also know the floor is made of floor and that every 60 seconds a minute passes?
Yet here we are month after month with people expecting more.
You're perpetuating the myth that tune ups and moderates have to have less impact on a champion. If you mean that moderates and tune ups add less abilities to a champion then please clarify that, but as of now, you are being unclear and your post implies that the buff is not as impactful because it is a moderate or a tuneup.
Moderates and tune ups can still add fewer abilities to a champion and be a great buff.
Moleman got a tune up and he's a beast, DD HK got an overhaul and he's less appreciated.
What myth? It entirely depends on the Champ and what a values change will impact. Some Champs are significantly changed. Others are moderately affected. They're not all going to be groundbreaking.
…Exactly
Your post said the larger rework was Guilly, implying that the reason Thor’s seems less impactful to how good he will be is because his was the moderate, and not the rework.
Your post implied that moderate buffs are less impactful to how good a champion will be.
All I was doing was asking you to clarify that you didn’t mean moderate updates will be less impactful, since you’ve clarified that. Great, we agree.
I'll wait to comment on his damage, but it seems really great. But you can see now, that his utility isn't likely going to be used much.
I don’t think this is another Gamora/Nova/Ronin buff. I think this will make a somewhat meaningful impact upon the champion. But it once again feels like one or two more lines of text could have made him so much better
I want to clarify that I agree with this, I don’t think Thor will be another gamora type buff. My comment likening those two was purely based on the utility aspect.
Thor’s damage looks like it’s going to be great, the buff in that regard is a win for me as long as it holds up. The utility is what seems disappointing to me. It looks like BP OG type DAAR, but locked behind an sp3 instead of 10 hits or an sp1
Oh I wasn’t referencing you specifically on that, don’t worry. I agree with everything you said (just generally as well). It’s funny because OGBP is the first thing I thought of with this buff. Good base damage, good DOT, relies on debuffs to reduce ability accuracy, and is maybe a bit impractical
I actually think when the buff goes live OGBP is going to be a good reference point, since I think Thor is pretty much going to land one ‘tier’ below him
Ok so based on what I've seen from my current R1 sig 40 6 star Thor. The buff looks to make him one of the highest DPS (not damage but damage per second) champ in game kinda like Tigra or BWDO.
I did a ROL WS test with him and the results look good. I did indeed use a full synergy team with Champion, Korg, Proxima and Hulk Rags.
Got to his SP3 on 28 hits, WS had 93% health, parried him then used the SP3. Went into WS after the SP3 cuz he was still stunned. Since he was only sig 40, it meant only 16 seconds of Thunder God time. I was able to fire off 5 SP1s in that 16 seconds time and the hit combo was about 77 or so after. WS went down to 65% health.
Doesn't sound impressive for a champ with a full synergy team does it? To me it is and here's why.
It's a R1 champ and he didn't have access to his full sig duration due to being sig 40. His combo ended on 77 meaning he didn't get the full benifit from the Champion synergy in that 16 seconds so his damage wasn't fully ramped yet.
Now lets put that same Thor after the buff. He will have the full 30 second duration, more attack due to his sig (tho it'll be somewhat the same as now for me due to them changing the Hulk synergy from 60% to 15%), longer and slightly stronger shocks and alittle better armor breaks with slight more chance to trigger. I'd say this exact test would bring down WS to at least 30% health instead in that 30 seconds time.
Now what if Thor was R2-3 instead? I'm 100% sure he will kill WS in 30 seconds after his SP3 by spamming SP1s. Tho we will have to wait and see but I get the feeling that I'm right.
Oh I forgot to mention that Thor can stun lock any fight indefinitely so whatever health the enemy does have after 30 seconds after his sp3 then you can just keep spamming SP1s till they are dead with no worries anyway.
Again, the larger rework was likely Guillotine. This seems like a smaller values change.
Really? This wasn’t the overhaul? Did you also know the floor is made of floor and that every 60 seconds a minute passes?
Yet here we are month after month with people expecting more.
You're perpetuating the myth that tune ups and moderates have to have less impact on a champion. If you mean that moderates and tune ups add less abilities to a champion then please clarify that, but as of now, you are being unclear and your post implies that the buff is not as impactful because it is a moderate or a tuneup.
Moderates and tune ups can still add fewer abilities to a champion and be a great buff.
Moleman got a tune up and he's a beast, DD HK got an overhaul and he's less appreciated.
What myth? It entirely depends on the Champ and what a values change will impact. Some Champs are significantly changed. Others are moderately affected. They're not all going to be groundbreaking.
…Exactly
Your post said the larger rework was Guilly, implying that the reason Thor’s seems less impactful to how good he will be is because his was the moderate, and not the rework.
Your post implied that moderate buffs are less impactful to how good a champion will be.
All I was doing was asking you to clarify that you didn’t mean moderate updates will be less impactful, since you’ve clarified that. Great, we agree.
In general, yes. They are. The more impactful ones will be fewer and far between.
One thing that I don’t think any of us have been accounting for is just how he feels to use. For example, I ranked up BWDO not because she’s a utility powerhouse, but because she’s just very fun. Those big bursty sp2s are immensely satisfying to throw.
If Thor Rags gets a similar kind of payoff after tossing an sp3, that may be all the justification a player needs to rank him. We won’t know until the update goes live, but I’ve got hope for it.
Again, the larger rework was likely Guillotine. This seems like a smaller values change.
Really? This wasn’t the overhaul? Did you also know the floor is made of floor and that every 60 seconds a minute passes?
Yet here we are month after month with people expecting more.
You're perpetuating the myth that tune ups and moderates have to have less impact on a champion. If you mean that moderates and tune ups add less abilities to a champion then please clarify that, but as of now, you are being unclear and your post implies that the buff is not as impactful because it is a moderate or a tuneup.
Moderates and tune ups can still add fewer abilities to a champion and be a great buff.
Moleman got a tune up and he's a beast, DD HK got an overhaul and he's less appreciated.
What myth? It entirely depends on the Champ and what a values change will impact. Some Champs are significantly changed. Others are moderately affected. They're not all going to be groundbreaking.
…Exactly
Your post said the larger rework was Guilly, implying that the reason Thor’s seems less impactful to how good he will be is because his was the moderate, and not the rework.
Your post implied that moderate buffs are less impactful to how good a champion will be.
All I was doing was asking you to clarify that you didn’t mean moderate updates will be less impactful, since you’ve clarified that. Great, we agree.
In general, yes. They are. The more impactful ones will be fewer and far between.
I'm curious what you mean here. Do you mean impactful buffs (overhaul/moderate/tune up) are fewer and far between? In which case, I agree, impactful buffs cannot be every month and we won't get them all the time. Or do you mean that impactful moderate buffs will be fewer and far between compared to impactful buffs of other types?
I've just cast a quick eye over all previous buffs, and based on general community consensus on each one (i.e. how much praise/hate each buff got, and how they are viewed now) this is what I think on each level of buff and how they were received. (Obviously, everyone will view them differently, and this isn't a black and white "this is how many good buffs of each type there are", just my view on how the community reacted to them). So a general overview:
Tune up: 8/12 were received well = 66% strike rate Moderate: 6/8 were received well = 75% strike rate Overhaul: 7/10 were received well = 70% strike rate
I see that as a pretty huge endorsement that level of buff isn't necessarily a good indicator of how good the buff is going to be. Considering the slightly lower sample size we are looking at, the plus or minus 10% is really reasonable, if we were looking at 100 buffs with this strike rate disparity, it would be different. But with between 8-12 buffs per level, we would need to see something more like 10%, 50% and 90% strike rate per level to show a significant difference.
This is becoming word soup. The values change buffs will not be as significant as the actual moderate or overhaul ones in general. Every once in a while you might have a values-change buff that seems quite impressive, but they will be few and far between. I.E. They won't all be Angela.
I'll wait to comment on his damage, but it seems really great. But you can see now, that his utility isn't likely going to be used much.
I don’t think this is another Gamora/Nova/Ronin buff. I think this will make a somewhat meaningful impact upon the champion. But it once again feels like one or two more lines of text could have made him so much better
I want to clarify that I agree with this, I don’t think Thor will be another gamora type buff. My comment likening those two was purely based on the utility aspect.
Thor’s damage looks like it’s going to be great, the buff in that regard is a win for me as long as it holds up. The utility is what seems disappointing to me. It looks like BP OG type DAAR, but locked behind an sp3 instead of 10 hits or an sp1
Oh I wasn’t referencing you specifically on that, don’t worry. I agree with everything you said (just generally as well). It’s funny because OGBP is the first thing I thought of with this buff. Good base damage, good DOT, relies on debuffs to reduce ability accuracy, and is maybe a bit impractical
I actually think when the buff goes live OGBP is going to be a good reference point, since I think Thor is pretty much going to land one ‘tier’ below him
Ok perfect! I thought as much but just wanted to double check
He honestly does seem like a Lidl version of BP OG in the utility department (as you're Scottish I know you'll understand that reference). BP's utility is a debuff shrug by intercepting, removing 1 of all debuff types. Thor has a 90% reduction to 1 debuff. BP's utility is also a -100% DAAR by having 5 DOT debuffs (bleed) and panthers might, which is relatively straight forward to get. ML x5 and then a heavy attack/sp1 will get you there. Thor has -100% DAAR with 5 DOT debuffs (shock). But unfortunately you need to get to an sp3 to unlock that DAAR. Those two caveats to Thor's utility make him a lesser BP.
One last thing I'll say is that as an OG BP fan, I'm just going to hold my anger in about you saying he's impractical, even if sometimes I know you're a little bit right.
Comments
Moderates and tune ups can still add fewer abilities to a champion and be a great buff.
Moleman got a tune up and he's a beast, DD HK got an overhaul and he's less appreciated.
I think where this buff is failing is in the utility and practicality department.
90% shock duration reduction is great, especially since it’s also effects (beats me how the god of thunder takes some damage from shock)
But outside of that, it’s unbelievably weak. -20% ability accuracy reduction per shock? That you realistically need to get to an SP3 to access? It’s worse than a slow on an SP3, and no one uses them
Frequent armour breaks are a bit better, but again, they’re practically locked behind an SP3. While armour break you can maybe get away with not having immediately, it still makes him significantly inferior to other options. Corvus? Parry. OG Thor? Parry. Sym Spidey? Heavy Attack. Medusa? Medium attack.
You see what I’m getting at.
The one place I can see him being potentially useful is nodes where either shocks or lots of debuffs are required. He’s not going to be the best for them, but I don’t think he’s going to be that far away from the top, and shock is still a relatively uncommon debuff
I don’t think this is another Gamora/Nova/Ronin buff. I think this will make a somewhat meaningful impact upon the champion. But it once again feels like one or two more lines of text could have made him so much better
‘Heavy Attacks inflict armour break’
‘While under the effects of armour break, opponents cannot evade’
One thing I am incredibly glad to see is that he is nowhere near as sig or synergy dependent now. I think that’s a massive win for a lot of players in the 6 star meta, who maybe get him as one of their first 6 stars. But I think his sig is beneficial enough to also make prestige w****s who invested sigs into him not feel like they are wasted from a gameplay standpoint
After that, lay into them. Boon should get you to your sp2 very quickly, so fire that off for a long lasting armor break throughout your Thunder God’s Wrath phase, then spam sp1 (which you’ll also get immediately thanks to Boon) to keep triggering his burst of physical damage on stuns. Once Wrath is over, just rinse repeat. Although I don’t imagine there are many fights in the game that will require much more than one rotation of that.
Utility is a bit sparse, as others have noted. Damage could be very solid, however, and if he is a viable EMP mod counter, that’s a nice bit of niche utility to go with reliable armor break and shock damage.
For me, Thor’s buff would be awesome if I pulled him as one of my first 4* in act 3/4. For me now, my duped 5* will stay at r2 and my 6* will stay unleveled at r1.
Thor’s damage looks like it’s going to be great, the buff in that regard is a win for me as long as it holds up. The utility is what seems disappointing to me. It looks like BP OG type DAAR, but locked behind an sp3 instead of 10 hits or an sp1
He most likely won't be competing for the top spot but I don't think every buffed champion needs to. It seems like he'll move up a fair few pegs in the tier rankings and you'll be less disappointed if you pull him at an early stage or if you need to rank him up for prestige at a later stage, but he probably won't be people's first choice for most content.
That said, I do really need a shock dealer for nodes like Thunderstruck. I'll probably go with Horsewoman Storm (since I have her and not him as a 6*) but he could be a solid second option for other people hunting for a similar champ. Plus, if his shock reduction works for all shock effects - both debuffs and passives - that can really come in handy from time to time.
Looks like he will be better. How much better we will see when it is live. I’m cautiously optimistic since this buff reminds me of Kingpin and Falcon. He’s abilities are still in there but the numbers went up and perhaps they flow better.
Your post said the larger rework was Guilly, implying that the reason Thor’s seems less impactful to how good he will be is because his was the moderate, and not the rework.
Your post implied that moderate buffs are less impactful to how good a champion will be.
All I was doing was asking you to clarify that you didn’t mean moderate updates will be less impactful, since you’ve clarified that. Great, we agree.
I actually think when the buff goes live OGBP is going to be a good reference point, since I think Thor is pretty much going to land one ‘tier’ below him
I did a ROL WS test with him and the results look good. I did indeed use a full synergy team with Champion, Korg, Proxima and Hulk Rags.
Got to his SP3 on 28 hits, WS had 93% health, parried him then used the SP3. Went into WS after the SP3 cuz he was still stunned. Since he was only sig 40, it meant only 16 seconds of Thunder God time. I was able to fire off 5 SP1s in that 16 seconds time and the hit combo was about 77 or so after. WS went down to 65% health.
Doesn't sound impressive for a champ with a full synergy team does it? To me it is and here's why.
It's a R1 champ and he didn't have access to his full sig duration due to being sig 40. His combo ended on 77 meaning he didn't get the full benifit from the Champion synergy in that 16 seconds so his damage wasn't fully ramped yet.
Now lets put that same Thor after the buff. He will have the full 30 second duration, more attack due to his sig (tho it'll be somewhat the same as now for me due to them changing the Hulk synergy from 60% to 15%), longer and slightly stronger shocks and alittle better armor breaks with slight more chance to trigger. I'd say this exact test would bring down WS to at least 30% health instead in that 30 seconds time.
Now what if Thor was R2-3 instead? I'm 100% sure he will kill WS in 30 seconds after his SP3 by spamming SP1s. Tho we will have to wait and see but I get the feeling that I'm right.
Oh I forgot to mention that Thor can stun lock any fight indefinitely so whatever health the enemy does have after 30 seconds after his sp3 then you can just keep spamming SP1s till they are dead with no worries anyway.
I'm not sure how to feel looking at these abilities on paper.
If Thor Rags gets a similar kind of payoff after tossing an sp3, that may be all the justification a player needs to rank him. We won’t know until the update goes live, but I’ve got hope for it.
I've just cast a quick eye over all previous buffs, and based on general community consensus on each one (i.e. how much praise/hate each buff got, and how they are viewed now) this is what I think on each level of buff and how they were received. (Obviously, everyone will view them differently, and this isn't a black and white "this is how many good buffs of each type there are", just my view on how the community reacted to them). So a general overview:
Tune up: 8/12 were received well = 66% strike rate
Moderate: 6/8 were received well = 75% strike rate
Overhaul: 7/10 were received well = 70% strike rate
I see that as a pretty huge endorsement that level of buff isn't necessarily a good indicator of how good the buff is going to be. Considering the slightly lower sample size we are looking at, the plus or minus 10% is really reasonable, if we were looking at 100 buffs with this strike rate disparity, it would be different. But with between 8-12 buffs per level, we would need to see something more like 10%, 50% and 90% strike rate per level to show a significant difference.
He honestly does seem like a Lidl version of BP OG in the utility department (as you're Scottish I know you'll understand that reference). BP's utility is a debuff shrug by intercepting, removing 1 of all debuff types. Thor has a 90% reduction to 1 debuff. BP's utility is also a -100% DAAR by having 5 DOT debuffs (bleed) and panthers might, which is relatively straight forward to get. ML x5 and then a heavy attack/sp1 will get you there. Thor has -100% DAAR with 5 DOT debuffs (shock). But unfortunately you need to get to an sp3 to unlock that DAAR. Those two caveats to Thor's utility make him a lesser BP.
One last thing I'll say is that as an OG BP fan, I'm just going to hold my anger in about you saying he's impractical, even if sometimes I know you're a little bit right.