Attacker Ban in AW?

Dissapointed

So now we can't even use the champs that we want and like? If I enjoy playing with Ghost, I wanna play with Ghost. Same goes for Quake.
Until now I liked AW cause I could use the champs that I wanted to use, in some difficult or even tricky match-ups. Now if I can't use my favourite champ, what's the point? Like seriously, it feels like a slap in the face. So many recourses used on a champ and now I won't be able to use her?

You will say you can use her (Ghost/Quake) in AQ or in quests. I know that I still can use her (I don't know for how long though with this trend) in those areas but I certainly didn't ranked her up for AQ or even for quests. AW WAS and IS on of my biggest factors in deciding who to rank up next.

(Prediction: I'm pretty sure the 3 champs that are gonna be banned all the time will be Torch, Ghost, Quake. So practically they have no use to me right now)

And yeah, you can say that I'm dissapointed

(I re-posted it cause the previous thread somehow went into the 'Bugs and Known Issues')

BitterSteel

Better attacker bans stopping you use a few champions, than true focus stopping you use 20.

At least attacker bans are in the hands of the player

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BitterSteel

Dissapointed said:

BitterSteel said:

Better attacker bans stopping you use a few champions, than true focus stopping you use 20.

At least attacker bans are in the hands of the player

That's not true. You just couldn't use these particular champs in the boss island. You could use them in the rest of the map though. Plus you could actually use Ghost in the boss island, you just had to play with intercepts-parry.

But from now on, the banned champ won't be able to even enter the map. So you can't use him at all. That's a huge change

Fair point, but I found I was not bringing champs on paths because I couldn’t use them on boss island.

Attacker bans may not be flawless, but they are better than true focus, and you can’t let the perfect be the enemy of the good.

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BitterSteel

Dissapointed said:

BitterSteel said:

Dissapointed said:

BitterSteel said:

Better attacker bans stopping you use a few champions, than true focus stopping you use 20.

At least attacker bans are in the hands of the player

That's not true. You just couldn't use these particular champs in the boss island. You could use them in the rest of the map though. Plus you could actually use Ghost in the boss island, you just had to play with intercepts-parry.

But from now on, the banned champ won't be able to even enter the map. So you can't use him at all. That's a huge change

Fair point, but I found I was not bringing champs on paths because I couldn’t use them on boss island.

Attacker bans may not be flawless, but they are better than true focus

I don't think this is true for Ghost players (primarily). Most of the wars I was bringing with me the Ghost Trinity.

I was taking the path 5 in both 1st and 2nd sector. I was also taking very frequently the Unblockable sp2 mini and almost always the Boss (with the Hazard Shift node on). For all these fights I was using Ghost and in the boss island I wasn't phasing at all. Now, I'm pretty much screwed

What i would like to see is maybe only being able to ban the same attackers a certain amount of times each season, maybe 4 times? That way each alliance can’t just ban ghost and quake each war nonstop

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KnightZero

Doom/Ghost/Quake/HT. Definitely going to be the top banned champs.

BitterSteel

Dissapointed said:

BitterSteel said:

Dissapointed said:

BitterSteel said:

Dissapointed said:

BitterSteel said:

Better attacker bans stopping you use a few champions, than true focus stopping you use 20.

At least attacker bans are in the hands of the player

That's not true. You just couldn't use these particular champs in the boss island. You could use them in the rest of the map though. Plus you could actually use Ghost in the boss island, you just had to play with intercepts-parry.

But from now on, the banned champ won't be able to even enter the map. So you can't use him at all. That's a huge change

Fair point, but I found I was not bringing champs on paths because I couldn’t use them on boss island.

Attacker bans may not be flawless, but they are better than true focus

I don't think this is true for Ghost players (primarily). Most of the wars I was bringing with me the Ghost Trinity.

I was taking the path 5 in both 1st and 2nd sector. I was also taking very frequently the Unblockable sp2 mini and almost always the Boss (with the Hazard Shift node on). For all these fights I was using Ghost and in the boss island I wasn't phasing at all. Now, I'm pretty much screwed

What i would like to see is maybe only being able to ban the same attackers a certain amount of times each season, maybe 4 times? That way each alliance can’t just ban ghost and quake each war nonstop

This could be true, but I still think 4 times is a little bit too much. 2 times would be ok I guess. Also you could be so unlucky that every alliance that you are facing against has Ghost banned.

Not to mention that the post said: 'We are still experimenting with the exact number of Bans available to each Battle Group, we plan to start fairly conservatively and go from there', which I think means each BG will be able to ban at least 1 attacker. So it's gonna be even worst.

Sure, but you could also come up against no alliances that ban Quake or ghost.

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Unknown

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BitterSteel

Dissapointed said:

BitterSteel said:

Dissapointed said:

BitterSteel said:

Dissapointed said:

BitterSteel said:

Dissapointed said:

BitterSteel said:

Better attacker bans stopping you use a few champions, than true focus stopping you use 20.

At least attacker bans are in the hands of the player

That's not true. You just couldn't use these particular champs in the boss island. You could use them in the rest of the map though. Plus you could actually use Ghost in the boss island, you just had to play with intercepts-parry.

But from now on, the banned champ won't be able to even enter the map. So you can't use him at all. That's a huge change

Fair point, but I found I was not bringing champs on paths because I couldn’t use them on boss island.

Attacker bans may not be flawless, but they are better than true focus

I don't think this is true for Ghost players (primarily). Most of the wars I was bringing with me the Ghost Trinity.

I was taking the path 5 in both 1st and 2nd sector. I was also taking very frequently the Unblockable sp2 mini and almost always the Boss (with the Hazard Shift node on). For all these fights I was using Ghost and in the boss island I wasn't phasing at all. Now, I'm pretty much screwed

What i would like to see is maybe only being able to ban the same attackers a certain amount of times each season, maybe 4 times? That way each alliance can’t just ban ghost and quake each war nonstop

This could be true, but I still think 4 times is a little bit too much. 2 times would be ok I guess. Also you could be so unlucky that every alliance that you are facing against has Ghost banned.

Not to mention that the post said: 'We are still experimenting with the exact number of Bans available to each Battle Group, we plan to start fairly conservatively and go from there', which I think means each BG will be able to ban at least 1 attacker. So it's gonna be even worst.

Sure, but you could also come up against no alliances that ban Quake or ghost.

But let's be real. Will this ever happen? Especially if a BG can ban 1+ champ?

If you say you could get unlucky and come up against every alliance who used one of their 4 bans on quake and ghost, then you can’t deny the possibility you could get lucky and the opposite would happen, especially when the opposite is twice as likely

You can’t have it both ways

Agent_X_zzz

This is such an excellent change, might come back to playing competitively because of this. One of the best AW changes they have ever made.

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Raganator

Excellent. Just what we asked for…more time needed to plan war!

StevieManWonder

Nah man, this is awesome.
Depending how many ban options we get, I find it likely that Quake, Ghost, Kitty, and Prof X will be banned almost every war.
Why Prof X? Because he's the perfect counter to Mix Master Korg.

GroundedWisdom

There's going to be Pros and Cons with any solution.

Raganator

GroundedWisdom said:

There's going to be Pros and Cons with any solution.

It’s not a solution. It’s a band aid. They are going to roll this out without a thought. They won’t change the map, and people may quickly find roadblock nodes. The post itself shows that kabam lacks foresight….what could possibly go wrong?

BitterSteel

Dissapointed said:

BitterSteel said:

Dissapointed said:

BitterSteel said:

Dissapointed said:

BitterSteel said:

Dissapointed said:

BitterSteel said:

Dissapointed said:

BitterSteel said:

Better attacker bans stopping you use a few champions, than true focus stopping you use 20.

At least attacker bans are in the hands of the player

That's not true. You just couldn't use these particular champs in the boss island. You could use them in the rest of the map though. Plus you could actually use Ghost in the boss island, you just had to play with intercepts-parry.

But from now on, the banned champ won't be able to even enter the map. So you can't use him at all. That's a huge change

Fair point, but I found I was not bringing champs on paths because I couldn’t use them on boss island.

Attacker bans may not be flawless, but they are better than true focus

I don't think this is true for Ghost players (primarily). Most of the wars I was bringing with me the Ghost Trinity.

I was taking the path 5 in both 1st and 2nd sector. I was also taking very frequently the Unblockable sp2 mini and almost always the Boss (with the Hazard Shift node on). For all these fights I was using Ghost and in the boss island I wasn't phasing at all. Now, I'm pretty much screwed

What i would like to see is maybe only being able to ban the same attackers a certain amount of times each season, maybe 4 times? That way each alliance can’t just ban ghost and quake each war nonstop

This could be true, but I still think 4 times is a little bit too much. 2 times would be ok I guess. Also you could be so unlucky that every alliance that you are facing against has Ghost banned.

Not to mention that the post said: 'We are still experimenting with the exact number of Bans available to each Battle Group, we plan to start fairly conservatively and go from there', which I think means each BG will be able to ban at least 1 attacker. So it's gonna be even worst.

Sure, but you could also come up against no alliances that ban Quake or ghost.

But let's be real. Will this ever happen? Especially if a BG can ban 1+ champ?

If you say you could get unlucky and come up against every alliance who used one of their 4 bans on quake and ghost, then you can’t deny the possibility you could get lucky and the opposite would happen, especially when the opposite is twice as likely

You can’t have it both ways

I think you are trolling me now to be honest. And even if this happen, for my 'tastes' 3+ bans on a particular attacker would be too much

You’re complaining that you could be unlucky and 12 of your 12 wars have ghost and quake banned, but say it’s unlikely for all of your 12 wars to not have them banned - Even though in our hypothetical we had 4 bans of quake and ghost available.

It doesn’t take a genius to work out the second is more likely than the other, over the season it’s more likely to run into a non-quake/ghost ban, but the one that doesn’t fit your agenda is the one that you say when will that ever happen? Even though it’s more likely.

If you think calling that out is trolling, then sure, but I think you’re just using it to avoid your hypocrisy.

BitterSteel

Raganator said:

GroundedWisdom said:

There's going to be Pros and Cons with any solution.

It’s not a solution. It’s a band aid. They are going to roll this out without a thought. They won’t change the map, and people may quickly find roadblock nodes. The post itself shows that kabam lacks foresight….what could possibly go wrong?

We won’t have attacker bans for another 2 seasons. Hardly without a thought.

Unknown

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GroundedWisdom

Raganator said:

GroundedWisdom said:

There's going to be Pros and Cons with any solution.

It’s not a solution. It’s a band aid. They are going to roll this out without a thought. They won’t change the map, and people may quickly find roadblock nodes. The post itself shows that kabam lacks foresight….what could possibly go wrong?

When they had a mechanic as broken as Kitty, they had to come up with something. It's actually not a bad idea. I also had a suggestion in Bitter's Thread that would work as well. This idea that we can play with whatever Champs we want at the highest Tiers is just not realistic. We can't go in with any old Champ, and that's never been the case anyway. People use what's most effective. Usually the same Champs over and over. Save for a few people who specialize in one or two particular Champs. You can't just walk into the highest Tiers of War and use any old Champ.

BitterSteel

Dissapointed said:

BitterSteel said:

Dissapointed said:

BitterSteel said:

Dissapointed said:

BitterSteel said:

Dissapointed said:

BitterSteel said:

Dissapointed said:

BitterSteel said:

Dissapointed said:

BitterSteel said:

Better attacker bans stopping you use a few champions, than true focus stopping you use 20.

At least attacker bans are in the hands of the player

That's not true. You just couldn't use these particular champs in the boss island. You could use them in the rest of the map though. Plus you could actually use Ghost in the boss island, you just had to play with intercepts-parry.

But from now on, the banned champ won't be able to even enter the map. So you can't use him at all. That's a huge change

Fair point, but I found I was not bringing champs on paths because I couldn’t use them on boss island.

Attacker bans may not be flawless, but they are better than true focus

I don't think this is true for Ghost players (primarily). Most of the wars I was bringing with me the Ghost Trinity.

I was taking the path 5 in both 1st and 2nd sector. I was also taking very frequently the Unblockable sp2 mini and almost always the Boss (with the Hazard Shift node on). For all these fights I was using Ghost and in the boss island I wasn't phasing at all. Now, I'm pretty much screwed

What i would like to see is maybe only being able to ban the same attackers a certain amount of times each season, maybe 4 times? That way each alliance can’t just ban ghost and quake each war nonstop

This could be true, but I still think 4 times is a little bit too much. 2 times would be ok I guess. Also you could be so unlucky that every alliance that you are facing against has Ghost banned.

Not to mention that the post said: 'We are still experimenting with the exact number of Bans available to each Battle Group, we plan to start fairly conservatively and go from there', which I think means each BG will be able to ban at least 1 attacker. So it's gonna be even worst.

Sure, but you could also come up against no alliances that ban Quake or ghost.

But let's be real. Will this ever happen? Especially if a BG can ban 1+ champ?

If you say you could get unlucky and come up against every alliance who used one of their 4 bans on quake and ghost, then you can’t deny the possibility you could get lucky and the opposite would happen, especially when the opposite is twice as likely

You can’t have it both ways

I think you are trolling me now to be honest. And even if this happen, for my 'tastes' 3+ bans on a particular attacker would be too much

You’re complaining that you could be unlucky and 12 of your 12 wars have ghost and quake banned, but say it’s unlikely for all of your 12 wars to not have them banned - Even though in our hypothetical we had 4 bans of quake and ghost available.

It doesn’t take a genius to work out the second is more likely than the other, over the season it’s more likely to run into a non-quake/ghost ban, but the one that doesn’t fit your agenda is the one that you say when will that ever happen? Even though it’s more likely.

If you think calling that out is trolling, then sure, but I think you’re just using it to avoid your hypocrisy.

So again with the personal insults? Now we are talking for an hypothetical scenario. But since you are insisting on it, Ghost and Quake WILL get banned for most alliances. Quake and Ghost are 2 of the most used champs in AW so it's highly likely they are gonna get banned everytime

Personal insults like calling me a troll?

If every alliance can ban ghost and quake 4 times out of 12, the odds you will face a random alliance and they have banned ghost will be 1/3. Because they only have 4 times in the season out of 12 to ban ghost. Same with quake.

Mobile_P0tat0

I really like this change, it allows officers in high tier alliances to shape the meta. It also allows for the diverse attackers that true focus was handicapping to see increased play.

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thanks4playing

I personally don't agree with attacker bans, but I am actually looking forward to this change. Things have been stale and this is at least a more thoughtful solution than True Focus. Perhaps it's exactly AW needs or it is a step in the right direction. We won't know until we try it.

Having said that, I think attacker cool down would be a much more interesting solution. I guess we'll have to wait for the details on attacker bans, but I don't like the idea that an attacker might be completely precluded from war an entire season. This could complicate rank up decisions, etc. But if there's a coold own, then at least I'm guaranteed to be able to use the champs that I've recently hunted, painstakingly acquired, and ranked up while still not being able to rely upon them excessively.

GroundedWisdom

Dissapointed said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Raganator said:

GroundedWisdom said:

There's going to be Pros and Cons with any solution.

It’s not a solution. It’s a band aid. They are going to roll this out without a thought. They won’t change the map, and people may quickly find roadblock nodes. The post itself shows that kabam lacks foresight….what could possibly go wrong?

Usually the same Champs over and over. Save for a few people who specialize in one or two particular Champs

Usually the people that are specialized in one or two particular champs, they love them. But apart from that, search in youtube 'Swedeah alliace war'. Don't tell me that Vision AOU/Rogue is an effective champ

One person on YouTube who can dance in with whoever they want is not a testament to what generally takes place. It's just like television. Looks amazing on T.V., but not everyone is doing it.
Just because we love them doesn't mean we can always use them for everything.

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BitterSteel

Haji_Saab said:

I have been proposing attacker bans for some time now. Several youtubers have suggested it in the past. It is not without thought.

Plus, this isn’t some change Kabam have thought of and designed in the last two days

“We also suspect you have a ton of questions about Attacker Bans, and we’ll give you a little bit of a taste now, but we’re keeping a few of our cards close as we’re announcing this a little earlier than we’d intended”

This shows they’ve been designing it and thinking about it in the past, and the announcement has been brought forward by dropping true focus. This is confirmed by the below quote

“given that we’ve had to adjust our plans rapidly to account for the Kitty/True Focus interaction, we felt that the context that this feature is coming is important for you to know to help understand our decision to pull True Focus from Season 29 on short notice.”

Worknprogress

The only problem with attacker bans is you won't be able to ban enough champs I'm sure.

Treinin

I will reserve full judgement until we get closer to this being a reality, but I struggle to see how a company that makes oversight after oversight when it comes to champion/node interactions could possibly make this work and not be broken as heck.

I am 99% sure if they go forward with attacker bans they will then release some champion that only has 2-3 viable counters (these already kind of exist in Bishop / Peni parker /etc) that will result in people just banning all of the viable counters and then laughing as there is no way to take these defenders out reasonably. We will end up with an "optimal" ban list and it will just be stupidly broken and they will need to reverse that as well.

AW is band aid after band aid at this point. I swear I read they were going to rebuild this game mode from the ground up, but that sounds like it was hollow lip service now.

Attacker bans might be the straw that fully breaks the game mode.