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How to fix the "buffed" Guillotine

Bring back the old SP3.

Change Bleed chance from 35% back to 50%.

Get rid of Soul Link. SP1 nullifies buffs and puts a Fate Seal Debuff for 8 seconds.

Maybe instead of this passive 2% regen off all attacks, regenerate a much higher % of all damage you receive and inflict from just damage over time effects. This would allow her to heal from suicides as well as attacking without being broken.

That should addesss the main problems.

Extra suggestions

Move ruptures to her base kit with the same chance and potency as the bleeds.

New Sig Ability : Every bleed/rupture has a x% of being a critical bleed/rupture (so that we don't have to bring Purgatory)

New Purgatory synergy : Fate Seal is now a passive and unaffected by Ability Accuracy Reduction.

What do you people think?

Comments

  • HoitadoHoitado Posts: 3,269 ★★★★★
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  • AuceAuce Posts: 332 ★★

    Bring back the old SP3.

    Change Bleed chance from 35% back to 50%.

    Get rid of Soul Link. SP1 nullifies buffs and puts a Fate Seal Debuff for 8 seconds.

    Maybe instead of this passive 2% regen off all attacks, regenerate a much higher % of all damage you receive and inflict from just damage over time effects. This would allow her to heal from suicides as well as attacking without being broken.

    That should addesss the main problems.

    Extra suggestions

    Move ruptures to her base kit with the same chance and potency as the bleeds.

    New Sig Ability : Every bleed/rupture has a x% of being a critical bleed/rupture (so that we don't have to bring Purgatory)

    New Purgatory synergy : Fate Seal is now a passive and unaffected by Ability Accuracy Reduction.

    What do you people think?

    That the damage has already been done.
  • DNA3000DNA3000 Posts: 13,532 Guardian

    Bring back the old SP3.

    I'm pretty sure that's not coming back. The problem is that this was almost ok when Guillotine's Soul mechanics were busted and she couldn't really maintain souls most of the time. If we fix Soul mechanics, that almost certainly had to go.

    The problem with nullifies and Fate Seals is that they interfere with Guillotine's bleed chances (which scale based on opponent buffs).

    One set of ideas I've been playing with is the following:

    SP1: Change Pain Link Debuff to Soul Link Debuff lasting 30 seconds.

    While active, this works similarly to how Morningstar's Soul Link works, all buffs triggered by the opponent have their potency reduced (but they don't grant self buffs here). Stacked Soul Link Debuffs have a cumulative effect, so maybe one debuff reduces potency by 20%, two by 40%, and so on (that's why it has a long duration, to allow it to stack up). This allows Guillotine to have a way to counter buff heavy champions without giving her nullifies which would be counter-productive to her bleed mechanics, and conceptually/storywise it connects her mechanics to Morningstar.

    Unshackled: Spend 10 Souls to apply an upgraded Soul Link Debuff lasting 8 seconds that also grants corresponding self buffs. Because we need an unshackled effect in there somewhere, and that seemed logical.

    SP3: Add: while opponent is degenerating all Guillotine's attacks Life Transfer 5% of damage dealt.

    Since the devs added a bunch of damage to Guillotine in special attack bleeds, adding back a life transfer ability after SP3 would be a way for players to trade some new damage for some old sustainability. We know Guilly's old Life Transfer was not problematic, so adding it back temporarily wouldn't likely be problematic either. Of course, she would now have stacked healing (Life Siphon and Life Transfer) but those numbers are negotiable, and also I don't think they are that ridiculous either.

    And one more bonus change:

    Heavy attacks: Change Bleed Curse Debuff to Bleed Curse Buff.

    What's the idea here? If Guillotine gets better bleed chances when the opponent has buffs, how about giving her a way to give the opponent more buffs. Bleed Curse would work identically, except it would count as a buff (and champs that can shake off debuffs wouldn't be able to shake this off).


    I wouldn't say this is the best possible update for Guillotine, but I believe that ship has sailed. Changing the update to improve its overall impact on the champion might still be possible, and this is an attempt to keep the design concept that is there while adding enough to make the champ have reasonable utility and performance.
  • Cosmos_2002Cosmos_2002 Posts: 137
    DNA3000 said:

    Bring back the old SP3.

    I'm pretty sure that's not coming back. The problem is that this was almost ok when Guillotine's Soul mechanics were busted and she couldn't really maintain souls most of the time. If we fix Soul mechanics, that almost certainly had to go.

    The problem with nullifies and Fate Seals is that they interfere with Guillotine's bleed chances (which scale based on opponent buffs).

    One set of ideas I've been playing with is the following:

    SP1: Change Pain Link Debuff to Soul Link Debuff lasting 30 seconds.

    While active, this works similarly to how Morningstar's Soul Link works, all buffs triggered by the opponent have their potency reduced (but they don't grant self buffs here). Stacked Soul Link Debuffs have a cumulative effect, so maybe one debuff reduces potency by 20%, two by 40%, and so on (that's why it has a long duration, to allow it to stack up). This allows Guillotine to have a way to counter buff heavy champions without giving her nullifies which would be counter-productive to her bleed mechanics, and conceptually/storywise it connects her mechanics to Morningstar.

    Unshackled: Spend 10 Souls to apply an upgraded Soul Link Debuff lasting 8 seconds that also grants corresponding self buffs. Because we need an unshackled effect in there somewhere, and that seemed logical.

    SP3: Add: while opponent is degenerating all Guillotine's attacks Life Transfer 5% of damage dealt.

    Since the devs added a bunch of damage to Guillotine in special attack bleeds, adding back a life transfer ability after SP3 would be a way for players to trade some new damage for some old sustainability. We know Guilly's old Life Transfer was not problematic, so adding it back temporarily wouldn't likely be problematic either. Of course, she would now have stacked healing (Life Siphon and Life Transfer) but those numbers are negotiable, and also I don't think they are that ridiculous either.

    And one more bonus change:

    Heavy attacks: Change Bleed Curse Debuff to Bleed Curse Buff.

    What's the idea here? If Guillotine gets better bleed chances when the opponent has buffs, how about giving her a way to give the opponent more buffs. Bleed Curse would work identically, except it would count as a buff (and champs that can shake off debuffs wouldn't be able to shake this off).


    I wouldn't say this is the best possible update for Guillotine, but I believe that ship has sailed. Changing the update to improve its overall impact on the champion might still be possible, and this is an attempt to keep the design concept that is there while adding enough to make the champ have reasonable utility and performance.
    Just wondering, couldn't they bring the old SP3 back and keep souls the way they are now if they make the SP3 a once per fight trigger like Diablo's SP3?

    I really don't like the higher bleed % per buff mechanic and would rather they do away with it and just increase the base bleed chance.
  • HolrosHolros Posts: 326 ★★★

    DNA3000 said:

    Bring back the old SP3.

    I'm pretty sure that's not coming back. The problem is that this was almost ok when Guillotine's Soul mechanics were busted and she couldn't really maintain souls most of the time. If we fix Soul mechanics, that almost certainly had to go.

    The problem with nullifies and Fate Seals is that they interfere with Guillotine's bleed chances (which scale based on opponent buffs).

    One set of ideas I've been playing with is the following:

    SP1: Change Pain Link Debuff to Soul Link Debuff lasting 30 seconds.

    While active, this works similarly to how Morningstar's Soul Link works, all buffs triggered by the opponent have their potency reduced (but they don't grant self buffs here). Stacked Soul Link Debuffs have a cumulative effect, so maybe one debuff reduces potency by 20%, two by 40%, and so on (that's why it has a long duration, to allow it to stack up). This allows Guillotine to have a way to counter buff heavy champions without giving her nullifies which would be counter-productive to her bleed mechanics, and conceptually/storywise it connects her mechanics to Morningstar.

    Unshackled: Spend 10 Souls to apply an upgraded Soul Link Debuff lasting 8 seconds that also grants corresponding self buffs. Because we need an unshackled effect in there somewhere, and that seemed logical.

    SP3: Add: while opponent is degenerating all Guillotine's attacks Life Transfer 5% of damage dealt.

    Since the devs added a bunch of damage to Guillotine in special attack bleeds, adding back a life transfer ability after SP3 would be a way for players to trade some new damage for some old sustainability. We know Guilly's old Life Transfer was not problematic, so adding it back temporarily wouldn't likely be problematic either. Of course, she would now have stacked healing (Life Siphon and Life Transfer) but those numbers are negotiable, and also I don't think they are that ridiculous either.

    And one more bonus change:

    Heavy attacks: Change Bleed Curse Debuff to Bleed Curse Buff.

    What's the idea here? If Guillotine gets better bleed chances when the opponent has buffs, how about giving her a way to give the opponent more buffs. Bleed Curse would work identically, except it would count as a buff (and champs that can shake off debuffs wouldn't be able to shake this off).


    I wouldn't say this is the best possible update for Guillotine, but I believe that ship has sailed. Changing the update to improve its overall impact on the champion might still be possible, and this is an attempt to keep the design concept that is there while adding enough to make the champ have reasonable utility and performance.
    nah still this isnt a good idea. i think the first idea is much better but revert soul charges to the way it was before
    Same here
  • pseudosanepseudosane Posts: 1,615 ★★★★★
    revert back to the old guilly and start again.
  • WednesdayLengthWednesdayLength Posts: 7
    honestly it's as simple as buffing base bleed chance, giving pain link like a 25% reduction of non-physical damage whilst active, and maybe bump the regen a little. Her old regen and sp3 mechanics were busted and don't fit the way champs are designed and have been designed for the last 3 years at least, and the new kit is pretty fun, whilst a little underwhelming. You can't cherry pick the buffs based on what you do and don't like about them, I personally love that she actually feels like a mystic champ now with her buff increase and against any venom, cull or resistor fight she gets pretty crazy if you stack her bleed curses.
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