Why All The Hate?

Jake303AoSJake303AoS Member Posts: 314 ★★
I don't get all the hate for America Chavez. I think she's pretty solid and fun to use. Is she the best? No, but she's got decent damage, some good utility, and a fun/different play style. Not to mention her ability power gain reversal is probably the best in the game.

I've just seen a lot of people calling her trash, which I think is way off base. I'm curious to hear everyone's pros/cons about her. (Preferably opinions from personal use and testing, not just repeating a YouTubers opinion)
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Comments

  • Jake303AoSJake303AoS Member Posts: 314 ★★

    "her ability power gain reversal is probably the best in the game"
    sir I think you may be mistaken as literally any champ that has multiple petrifies makes a joke of her minute ability. She's not as trash as other champs but comparing her in the mystic class she doesn't even have solid mystic abilities and instead only lowers potency of certain buffs. She just is not an important mystic in the grand scheme of things

    I have to strongly disagree with that. What champ's power reversal is better? Maybe I'm overlooking someone, but idk any champ who can reverse power gain as quickly and easily as her. It's actually a super strong ability, not minute at all.

    The reason she lowers buffs instead of nullifying is because she gains attack rating for each buff on the opponent. It only takes one heavy>special and they're almost completely useless, other than to benefit her.

    I agree she's not the best mystic, but I don't really judge champs based on their class counterparts. I think she's super solid, in my opinions of course.
  • Jake303AoSJake303AoS Member Posts: 314 ★★

    She’s quite fun, wish I had one. Maybe from my six star featured

    Good luck! I pulled her from a featured and was bummed at first cause of everything I'd heard about her. I always test champs myself tho, and I was very pleasantly surprised.
  • SighsohardSighsohard Member Posts: 666 ★★★
    edited October 2021

    "her ability power gain reversal is probably the best in the game"
    sir I think you may be mistaken as literally any champ that has multiple petrifies makes a joke of her minute ability. She's not as trash as other champs but comparing her in the mystic class she doesn't even have solid mystic abilities and instead only lowers potency of certain buffs. She just is not an important mystic in the grand scheme of things

    I have to strongly disagree with that. What champ's power reversal is better? Maybe I'm overlooking someone, but idk any champ who can reverse power gain as quickly and easily as her. It's actually a super strong ability, not minute at all.

    The reason she lowers buffs instead of nullifying is because she gains attack rating for each buff on the opponent. It only takes one heavy>special and they're almost completely useless, other than to benefit her.

    I agree she's not the best mystic, but I don't really judge champs based on their class counterparts. I think she's super solid, in my opinions of course.
    Capiw and LC do it better
  • Jake303AoSJake303AoS Member Posts: 314 ★★

    "her ability power gain reversal is probably the best in the game"
    sir I think you may be mistaken as literally any champ that has multiple petrifies makes a joke of her minute ability. She's not as trash as other champs but comparing her in the mystic class she doesn't even have solid mystic abilities and instead only lowers potency of certain buffs. She just is not an important mystic in the grand scheme of things

    I have to strongly disagree with that. What champ's power reversal is better? Maybe I'm overlooking someone, but idk any champ who can reverse power gain as quickly and easily as her. It's actually a super strong ability, not minute at all.

    The reason she lowers buffs instead of nullifying is because she gains attack rating for each buff on the opponent. It only takes one heavy>special and they're almost completely useless, other than to benefit her.

    I agree she's not the best mystic, but I don't really judge champs based on their class counterparts. I think she's super solid, in my opinions of course.
    Capiw and LC do it better
    I say this respectfully, but no way.

    Cap needs dupe, sig 200, a tech synergy, and a lot of constant parrys.

    LC needs 5+ exhaustion debuffs, which can be difficult to keep up, as well as impossible with debuff immune or purify champs.

    America Chavez only needs two heavys, no dupe, no synergy, and not debuff reliant.
    Void( slow but one of the solid reliable character)
    I considered Void too. I agree, once it's going and he's duped, it's great. But as you said, it can be quite slow, basically rng reliant if you need it quickly. It's also debuff reliant. America's is so easy, fast, and reliable right out of the gate. Unless I'm overlooking someone, I think it's definitely the best in the game.
  • SighsohardSighsohard Member Posts: 666 ★★★

    "her ability power gain reversal is probably the best in the game"
    sir I think you may be mistaken as literally any champ that has multiple petrifies makes a joke of her minute ability. She's not as trash as other champs but comparing her in the mystic class she doesn't even have solid mystic abilities and instead only lowers potency of certain buffs. She just is not an important mystic in the grand scheme of things

    I have to strongly disagree with that. What champ's power reversal is better? Maybe I'm overlooking someone, but idk any champ who can reverse power gain as quickly and easily as her. It's actually a super strong ability, not minute at all.

    The reason she lowers buffs instead of nullifying is because she gains attack rating for each buff on the opponent. It only takes one heavy>special and they're almost completely useless, other than to benefit her.

    I agree she's not the best mystic, but I don't really judge champs based on their class counterparts. I think she's super solid, in my opinions of course.
    Capiw and LC do it better
    I say this respectfully, but no way.

    Cap needs dupe, sig 200, a tech synergy, and a lot of constant parrys.

    LC needs 5+ exhaustion debuffs, which can be difficult to keep up, as well as impossible with debuff immune or purify champs.

    America Chavez only needs two heavys, no dupe, no synergy, and not debuff reliant.
    I don’t think it’s fair the discount LC or capiw by handicapping them arbitrarily. LC easily can keep 5+ petrifies. And anyone that ranks a cap will likely max sig him.
    You saying “what if they’re debuff immune?” Is kinda silly. Unless you can articulate an exact example of this is the game presently?
  • Lovejoy72Lovejoy72 Member Posts: 1,858 ★★★★
    I don’t know the character at all, she came in while I was on a long break. That said, much of the opinion making done in the game, I find, is by folks who have every best option and judge champs from that lofty perspective. It’s why I like new account challenges, in which experienced players are forced to use whatever RNG grants them.
  • EtherionGodEtherionGod Member Posts: 270 ★★

    I don't get all the hate for America Chavez. I think she's pretty solid and fun to use. Is she the best? No, but she's got decent damage, some good utility, and a fun/different play style. Not to mention her ability power gain reversal is probably the best in the game.

    I've just seen a lot of people calling her trash, which I think is way off base. I'm curious to hear everyone's pros/cons about her. (Preferably opinions from personal use and testing, not just repeating a YouTubers opinion)

    I love playing her alot, I only have her as a 3* but I love testing her out when I can
  • DiablordDiablord Member Posts: 587 ★★★

    "her ability power gain reversal is probably the best in the game"
    sir I think you may be mistaken as literally any champ that has multiple petrifies makes a joke of her minute ability. She's not as trash as other champs but comparing her in the mystic class she doesn't even have solid mystic abilities and instead only lowers potency of certain buffs. She just is not an important mystic in the grand scheme of things

    I have to strongly disagree with that. What champ's power reversal is better? Maybe I'm overlooking someone, but idk any champ who can reverse power gain as quickly and easily as her. It's actually a super strong ability, not minute at all.

    The reason she lowers buffs instead of nullifying is because she gains attack rating for each buff on the opponent. It only takes one heavy>special and they're almost completely useless, other than to benefit her.

    I agree she's not the best mystic, but I don't really judge champs based on their class counterparts. I think she's super solid, in my opinions of course.
    Spidey 2099?



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  • MagrailothosMagrailothos Member Posts: 5,965 ★★★★★
    I agree with the OP, she's definitely got utility and reasonable damage; plus some effectiveness on defense, thanks to her Electro-like damage reflection.

    Happy to hear someone is having fun with her!
  • DiablordDiablord Member Posts: 587 ★★★

    "her ability power gain reversal is probably the best in the game"
    sir I think you may be mistaken as literally any champ that has multiple petrifies makes a joke of her minute ability. She's not as trash as other champs but comparing her in the mystic class she doesn't even have solid mystic abilities and instead only lowers potency of certain buffs. She just is not an important mystic in the grand scheme of things

    I have to strongly disagree with that. What champ's power reversal is better? Maybe I'm overlooking someone, but idk any champ who can reverse power gain as quickly and easily as her. It's actually a super strong ability, not minute at all.

    The reason she lowers buffs instead of nullifying is because she gains attack rating for each buff on the opponent. It only takes one heavy>special and they're almost completely useless, other than to benefit her.

    I agree she's not the best mystic, but I don't really judge champs based on their class counterparts. I think she's super solid, in my opinions of course.
    Her damage as a 6* r2 is not bad.
    It is quite good.



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  • Fluffy_pawsFluffy_paws Member Posts: 2,678 ★★★★★
    I always just thought she got hate because people didn't like her in the comics
  • SaiyanSaiyan Member Posts: 727 ★★★★

    @Masterpuff, puffy would sp299 be a contender?

    He is a contender for the best power reverse in game. It's easy to see why also.

    One BIG factor that makes him good in this department is his Wither is outside of the normal means. Like vs fights who are immune to power control for example, his Wither debuff bypasses this. The Grandmaster is an example who is supposed to be immune but I used S2099 in the last week of SOP and his Wither reversed GM's power gain which made the reverse controls phase MUCH easier. There's a Sym Supreme boss in Act 7.3 also that's immune to petrify which removes champs like Void. But S2099 made that fight a joke.

    Also the fact that his debuffs can be paused meaning they can go from 15 seconds to at least 20, 25, 40, 50, etc etc and could last all fight depending on the fight AND you can stack them meaning even more power control.

    I have him as a R5 5 star AND a R2 6 star and will be R3ing him first chance I get.

    In terms of vs Chavaz I'd say he also is a better champ than she is by a wide margin. More utility and his damage is pretty good when you ramp him up. Him not gaining buffs is an ability you don't think is that good UNTIL you actually see it in action. It's a VERY useful ability in itself and unlike Red Guardian, S2099 is easier to play and more forgiving with having to worry about keep his debuffs on.
  • MasterpuffMasterpuff Member Posts: 6,469 ★★★★★

    @Masterpuff, puffy would sp299 be a contender?

    Definitely, with or without then synergy. A few heavies negates it nicely and once you get go sp2, its over for then opponent. With AV on the team though he is easily the best.
  • Jake303AoSJake303AoS Member Posts: 314 ★★
    Saiyan said:

    @Masterpuff, puffy would sp299 be a contender?

    He is a contender for the best power reverse in game. It's easy to see why also.

    One BIG factor that makes him good in this department is his Wither is outside of the normal means. Like vs fights who are immune to power control for example, his Wither debuff bypasses this. The Grandmaster is an example who is supposed to be immune but I used S2099 in the last week of SOP and his Wither reversed GM's power gain which made the reverse controls phase MUCH easier. There's a Sym Supreme boss in Act 7.3 also that's immune to petrify which removes champs like Void. But S2099 made that fight a joke.

    Also the fact that his debuffs can be paused meaning they can go from 15 seconds to at least 20, 25, 40, 50, etc etc and could last all fight depending on the fight AND you can stack them meaning even more power control.

    I have him as a R5 5 star AND a R2 6 star and will be R3ing him first chance I get.

    In terms of vs Chavaz I'd say he also is a better champ than she is by a wide margin. More utility and his damage is pretty good when you ramp him up. Him not gaining buffs is an ability you don't think is that good UNTIL you actually see it in action. It's a VERY useful ability in itself and unlike Red Guardian, S2099 is easier to play and more forgiving with having to worry about keep his debuffs on.
    Appreciate the info and input. To clarify, this wasn't a discussion on who's a better champ, just specifically power reversal. And I still think America's is the best, tho S2099 is close. I'll specify why in my response below.
  • Jake303AoSJake303AoS Member Posts: 314 ★★

    @Masterpuff, puffy would sp299 be a contender?

    Definitely, with or without then synergy. A few heavies negates it nicely and once you get go sp2, its over for then opponent. With AV on the team though he is easily the best.
    I'll start by saying that with the AV synergy, he is a contender, but without, America still takes it. And honestly, even with it in my opinion.

    S2099 heavys are only 15% mitigation, and only stack to 5, and only last 15 seconds. So you're likely to never even hit the full 75% reduction.
    His sp2 is 125% for 15 seconds. That's strong, but you have to get to an sp2, and it's only half the time as America's. As well as both of S2099's being debuff reliant.

    America's are 60% each heavy, stack more than you'd ever need, and last for 30 seconds. Two heavys and the opponent never gains power, period. No synergy, no debuff, just straight out of the gate, two heavys and they're shut down. And it's super easy to maintain the whole fight.

    So again, S2099 with AV synergy is great being that it's instant at the start of the fight. But it's still only 15 seconds and you have to rush to an sp2 to keep it going. And again, it's debuff reliant. So I'd say they're pretty close, but being that it's not synergy or debuff reliant, quicker and easier to access and twice the duration, I still have to give it to America.
  • Jeal79Jeal79 Member Posts: 444 ★★★
    Doesn't seem to be working for me.
    Just done a practice fight with my duped R1 3* versus a maxed 3* OG Thor.
    At one point I had 4 stacks of negative zone and Thor was still gaining power.
  • Malreck04Malreck04 Member Posts: 3,324 ★★★★★
    No, you're actually very wrong there. You don't have to rush. Whenever you dodge an attack with him he pauses debuffs so you can keep up the first wither indefinitely.
  • WOLF_LINKWOLF_LINK Member Posts: 1,376 ★★★★
    I don’t know how good she is as a Champ, but her Design/Artwork is absolutely on point. 😍


  • Jake303AoSJake303AoS Member Posts: 314 ★★
    Malreck04 said:

    No, you're actually very wrong there. You don't have to rush. Whenever you dodge an attack with him he pauses debuffs so you can keep up the first wither indefinitely.

    That definitely makes it easier, as long as you're able to dex consistently. But I still think just throwing a couple heavys every 30 seconds is still easier. And again, not synergy reliant. AV is cool, but I wouldn't want him on the team in a lot of scenarios.
  • BitterSteelBitterSteel Member Posts: 9,264 ★★★★★

    @Masterpuff, puffy would sp299 be a contender?

    Definitely, with or without then synergy. A few heavies negates it nicely and once you get go sp2, its over for then opponent. With AV on the team though he is easily the best.
    I'll start by saying that with the AV synergy, he is a contender, but without, America still takes it. And honestly, even with it in my opinion.

    S2099 heavys are only 15% mitigation, and only stack to 5, and only last 15 seconds. So you're likely to never even hit the full 75% reduction.
    His sp2 is 125% for 15 seconds. That's strong, but you have to get to an sp2, and it's only half the time as America's. As well as both of S2099's being debuff reliant.

    America's are 60% each heavy, stack more than you'd ever need, and last for 30 seconds. Two heavys and the opponent never gains power, period. No synergy, no debuff, just straight out of the gate, two heavys and they're shut down. And it's super easy to maintain the whole fight.

    So again, S2099 with AV synergy is great being that it's instant at the start of the fight. But it's still only 15 seconds and you have to rush to an sp2 to keep it going. And again, it's debuff reliant. So I'd say they're pretty close, but being that it's not synergy or debuff reliant, quicker and easier to access and twice the duration, I still have to give it to America.
    Looks like someone forgot about Spidey 2099 debuff pausing. You can have easily have the first exhaustion you place in the fight on for 100% of the time by pausing by dexing. 75% reduction with exhaustion is easy to upkeep, and by that time you’ve got an sp2 for wither.

    Also, I think you’re really overhyping how important non-debuff based power reversal is. I can only really think of one fight in the game where that would be useful and that’s the Sym supreme in 7.3 where he removes debuffs after a certain amount of time after being hit by a heavy. But even then, spidey still rocks it.

    And sure, i bet there’s a kingpin/Agent venom with power gain somewhere deep in act 6 you could find to prove your point, but really, the combination of power gain and tenacity as a path is so niche that maybe Chavez is better for one path out of act 6 and 7 combined. Overall, it’s just not enough to say she’s better.

    She’s slightly faster at getting it under control, but she can’t reduce it as much as Spidey 2098 can. 75% base and 125% per sp2 (max 5) means you can get up to -700% power reversal. But even 1 or 2 sp2s already overtakes Chavez’ 60% per stack (when each matching stack duration is reduced by -20%). Plus, when I tested her just now she struggled to keep up more than 3 stacks (180% reversal), which spidey can easily beat.

    I’m sorry, but getting it shut down slightly faster isn’t a better trade off for not relying on debuffs and not being able to reverse more.

    Spidey can reverse more, keep it up easier and apply it still really fast (especially with AV synergy).
  • Jeal79Jeal79 Member Posts: 444 ★★★
    @Jake303AoS
    Can you post any vids showing her power locking the opponent?
    I'm doing heavy after heavy and not seeing anything at all except the counter increase on the symbol
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