Freezing of war ratings during off-season, but not tier?

Dash715

I had made the assumption that freezing of war ratings during off-season meant that your tier was frozen as well.

But apparently, this is not the case?

Have other alliances experienced this?

Camby01

Yes

Nojokejaym

Yes my alliance went from tier 2 to tier 3

LeNoirFaineant

Your tier is based on your war rating relative to other alliances. If you were close to being in a higher or lower tier you could move due to bans, alliances that took a season off coming back, alliances that played taking a season off, etc.

Anurag1606

LeNoirFaineant said:

Your tier is based on your war rating relative to other alliances. If you were close to being in a higher or lower tier you could move due to bans, alliances that took a season off coming back, alliances that played taking a season off, etc.

But off season, war rating are frozen so how would you move up or down in tiers when nobody gains or loses war rating? We ended last season in t2. 1st 4 off season wars were t2, 5th offseason was t3, 6th last off season war was t2 and now in season we are at t3? With no change in war ratings which is universal.

frodo2377

The whole point of an "off season" is to give players a break. If you can drop tiers during an off-season with your war rating being frozen then there is no off season. This puts alliances who don't really participate in wars during the break at a disadvantage since they are loosing the multiplier they should have retained at the end of the season. We're already having to play catch up and the season hasn't even started yet.

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Dash715

Zan0 said:

LeNoirFaineant said:

Your tier is based on your war rating relative to other alliances. If you were close to being in a higher or lower tier you could move due to bans, alliances that took a season off coming back, alliances that played taking a season off, etc.

This right here. If you are on the edge between tiers and the amount of alliances that are active gets reduced you’ll drop down a tier since you are no longer in the correct % of alliances. And there is nothing you can do to prevent this

Right. I understand this. I was a bit surprised because the drop happened during off-season but continued into this first matchup. I figured some teams took off wars during off-season (thus dropping the tier), but thought alliances would be jumping back in with start of season.

Thanks for your replies.

SummonerNR

@Dash715 and @Anurag1606, could also be that when in a war against an opponent “across the tier border” from you, that the coin flip to determine which map you play in got chosen to be THEIR Tier-based Map (despite what Tier your team is).

So, did you see that your actual Tier was changing, or just that the Map you were playing on was from a different Tier ?

Camby01

SummonerNR said:

@Dash715 and @Anurag1606, could also be that when in a war against an opponent “across the tier border” from you, that the coin flip to determine which map you play in got chosen to be THEIR Tier-based Map (despite what Tier your team is).

So, did you see that your actual Tier was changing, or just that the Map you were playing on was from a different Tier ?

That could be a reason to go up in tier. The last kabam post on this subject didn't mention a coin flip, it always went to the higher of the 2 tiers. I could have missed something, but that is my understanding when 2 teams are matched from different tiers. Imo, if that changed, then communication was poor.

Dash715

SummonerNR said:

@Dash715 and @Anurag1606, could also be that when in a war against an opponent “across the tier border” from you, that the coin flip to determine which map you play in got chosen to be THEIR Tier-based Map (despite what Tier your team is).

So, did you see that your actual Tier was changing, or just that the Map you were playing on was from a different Tier ?

Actual Tier changed.

DNA3000

frodo2377 said:

The whole point of an "off season" is to give players a break. If you can drop tiers during an off-season with your war rating being frozen then there is no off season. This puts alliances who don't really participate in wars during the break at a disadvantage since they are loosing the multiplier they should have retained at the end of the season. We're already having to play catch up and the season hasn't even started yet.

This is simply an intractable issue, and it goes both ways. The problem is that while ratings are frozen, tiers aren't because tiers are percentage based. That means, in effect, there's no fixed number of tier 2 alliances from season to season.

Although there are a lot of factors that can influence this, suppose that the total number of active alliances drops. Let's say that in one season there were 10,000 active alliances, and in the next season there are only 9000. Top 1% drops from top 100 to top 90. An alliance that was ranked 95 could change from being in tier 3 to being in tier 4. But conversely if the number of alliances increases from 10,000 to 11,000 then the number of top 1% alliances rises from 100 to 110. In that case, an alliance ranked 105 can find themselves jumping upward from tier 4 to tier 3.

You can't say this puts idle alliances at a disadvantage, because there's the same chance for them to go up or down in tier and multiplier. And the vast majority of alliances cannot move at all via this mechanism because they are simply too far away from tier boundaries. Being idle can hurt you if you are at a boundary and if the boundary moves far enough in the right direction. But being idle can also help you if you simply do nothing and the boundary moves in the opposite direction and you take no costly and unnecessary risks. There is no general disadvantage for sitting out the offseason.

frodo2377

@DNA3000 I can agree with your scenario of movement in tiers if the number of alliances increased or decreased. That being said it is not the reason that we dropped in tiers according to Kabam. They specifically stated it was because we lost our last 2 off season wars.

LeNoirFaineant

frodo2377 said:

@DNA3000 I can agree with your scenario of movement in tiers if the number of alliances increased or decreased. That being said it is not the reason that we dropped in tiers according to Kabam. They specifically stated it was because we lost our last 2 off season wars.

Did support tell you that?

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frodo2377

LeNoirFaineant said:

frodo2377 said:

@DNA3000 I can agree with your scenario of movement in tiers if the number of alliances increased or decreased. That being said it is not the reason that we dropped in tiers according to Kabam. They specifically stated it was because we lost our last 2 off season wars.

Did support tell you that?

Yes. We have the screenshots from support stating exactly that. And while I know that support doesn't have the best track record in providing accurate information....what else are we supposed to believe at this point? All we have is what Kabam has told us vs everyone else's speculation.

DNA3000

frodo2377 said:

LeNoirFaineant said:

frodo2377 said:

@DNA3000 I can agree with your scenario of movement in tiers if the number of alliances increased or decreased. That being said it is not the reason that we dropped in tiers according to Kabam. They specifically stated it was because we lost our last 2 off season wars.

Did support tell you that?

Yes. We have the screenshots from support stating exactly that. And while I know that support doesn't have the best track record in providing accurate information....what else are we supposed to believe at this point? All we have is what Kabam has told us vs everyone else's speculation.

Kabam support told you that you dropped tier because you lost two off season wars. Kabam developers stated via announcements that losses do not change war rating during off season. So who should you believe? Well, let's double check them. One says war rating is frozen, one is essentially saying you lost rating. Check your rating. Did it go down? If it did, support is right and there's a bug. If it didn't, support is wrong and that wasn't the problem. Simple as that.

Could your war rating stay the same but the losses still lower your tier? That's not possible. Losses don't directly affect your war tier, nor is there any way for them to do so. They can only affect your tier indirectly, by lowering your war rating. If they could directly affect your tier without touching your rating, that would be tantamount to saying an alliance could have a lower rating than you and still be in a higher tier than you. And as far as I'm aware, that doesn't happen (I'm ignoring the map tier anomaly that sometimes occurs when matches occur across tier boundaries: there the *map* has a lower tier than your intrinsic tier, but your intrinsic tier remains the same).

frodo2377

@DNA3000 I’m correcting myself since I was reading the war results incorrectly. Compared to the final war of season 29....war rating was at 1415. It stayed that way throughout all wins and losses. I will be posting Kabam's response to our ticket just for context of what we were told.

frodo2377

laserjohn26

I would assume your last war loss dropped you a tier. However since it was the last war you didn't actually play a war in your new tier since the season ended. Now you are in the correct tier.