AI Tweaks and the Effectiveness of Taunt

This is, of course, purely anecdotal, but I’m finding the passive AI resistant to taunt debuffs as well. A recent case in point would be the current SQ, where Guardian’s taunt seems to me to be ineffective more times than not at getting the AI to drop its specials. She-Hulk taunt has similarly been less successful for me.

There’s ample complaining about the passive AI—but I’m concerned that the taunt debuff interaction also seems to be less effective under the current AI.

Anyone else finding this? Is there any way we could get an official comment on what some of us see in the most current AI behavior? Have there been intentional changes, or is this unintended?

Dr. Zola

Comments

BitterSteel

@Kabam Zibiit can we please get something other than radio silence on this?

The AI is holding onto specials for an extended period of time and it’s extremely frustrating. Especially against passive power gainers who are just gaining power until Sp3.

My alliance is losing a war today that we could have won on the tie breaker, had a nova boss not held onto his sp1 for 30 seconds, jumping back and forward and getting to an sp3.

Just a confirmation that this post has been seen, it’s costing us wars, items and fights.

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KnightZero

@Kabam Zibiit can we please get something other than radio silence on this?

The AI is holding onto specials for an extended period of time and it’s extremely frustrating. Especially against passive power gainers who are just gaining power until Sp3.
.

Was facing Hyperion on Brawl in Map 7 today. My entire experience for two fights against him was fights starts, he crosses his hands till he gets Sp3, throws it, I die. Rinse and repeat

Chovner

I find the AI site there waiting for your next input to react, and their reaction time is often way faster than normal. Also there's WAY more light intercepts being thrown by AI. Tons of times they start walking towards you and throw out the quick Light jab out of nowhere, where that never happened before. Or they time the Light jab intercept when you Medium dash in which also never happened with this frequency before.
Recovery time is also noticeably jacked up. I feel like punishing specials is a lot harder, and AI is recovering from being knocked down almost before their animations shows them fully standing.
Lastly, before the last few months I don't think I've EVER seen the AI do the shallow side step dex followed by a quick Light attack (previously just a skilled Summoner move). Now I feel like it happens all the time.

I'm not posting all of this to only complain about changes in the AI because Kabam can tune it to match Summoner growing skill cap, but it would be nice if they announced it was happening so we all don't feel crazy and so conspiracy theory convinced.

Chovner

I also hate the fact that this was moved to the BUGS and KNOWN ISSUES section. If it's a bug them make a post saying Kabam is addressing it, and if it's known issue....... THEN MAKE A POST SAYING KABAM IS ADDRESSING IT.
A lot of these Bugs and Known issues post seem to get buried here just to keep them quiet with no real follow up.

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MSRDLD

Guardian’s taunt doesn’t seem like it’s working at all.

mostlyharmlessn

There’s supposed to be a memory leak update Oct/Nov if I recall correctly.

Dr. Zola

Pretty sure the only memory fix they will effectively push out is the one that tries to make you forget they said they were going to fix something...

jdrum663

Guardian’s taunt doesn’t seem like it’s working at all.

I don't think anyone's is.

BitterSteel

@Kabam Zibiit can we please get something other than radio silence on this?

The AI is holding onto specials for an extended period of time and it’s extremely frustrating. Especially against passive power gainers who are just gaining power until Sp3.

My alliance is losing a war today that we could have won on the tie breaker, had a nova boss not held onto his sp1 for 30 seconds, jumping back and forward and getting to an sp3.

Just a confirmation that this post has been seen, it’s costing us wars, items and fights.

Any word on this yet?

TimeGenesis

Still no confirmation on this i take it?

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JPeanuts

Unless you’re fighting with Doom. AI cannot stop throwing specials. Never seen Mordo’s Sp 1 or 2 until I started fighting him with Doom…

Lpoo

The silence is deafening on this one. Just a "We hear you, we'll look more into this," would be good.

BitterSteel

I’m gonna present my feedback here as constructively as I can here, I think that’s always important when disappointed.

I know there’s been a lot of talk about Kabam silently reading threads and taking it back to the team, like in this thread
https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/290994/next-months-buffs/p4

But I’m afraid if that’s the case it’s not actually enough here. I appreciate not every thread can be replied to, but if there is a moderator reading this thread and you’re picking and choosing which ones to reply to and which ones to take the feedback silently on, it seems a mistake to not choose this one to reply to.

There has clearly been a change in the AI, and at this point the reasoning doesn’t matter in regards to why we don’t have confirmation or comment on it, we would just like a comment on it. This AI change has been noticed by so many players, and staying quiet on this is not a good look. Regardless of the reasoning.

I can think of a few scenarios, and whatever the scenario is, or whatever Kabam currently think the scenario is, replying in this thread is the best way to communicate with us. Being silent and taking the feedback to the team is not enough here.

Here are the scenarios I can think of, all lead to communication with us.

1) there’s been a mistake and the AI profile has updated out of your control - talk to us, let us know there’s been a mistake and you’re working on fixing it

2) you’ve decided to update the AI profile without announcing it - explain why there was no announcement and explain that there has been a change instead of pushing it live and letting us find out and deal with it

3) there was supposed to be a future update to the AI, and it’s accidentally gone live - explain the situation and confirm there has been an unintended change.

4) changing something else in the game has caused the AI profile to change - tell us this is the case and let us know you’re working on fixing it

5) you don’t know what’s caused it - tell us, and let us know you’re trying to find out

6) you don’t believe or know if there is an AI profile change - in which case I’m sure many will disagree, but if that is the case, tell us you don’t think that, and please confirm if the game data is showing the same amount of special attacks being shown, or that the AI is acting identically to before these issues started showing up

7) the nightmare scenario, one that I dont think is true at all, you aren’t reading the thread or don’t plan on replying. Not sure what to suggest here, if it’s not being read it won’t matter. If you don’t want to reply, I’d urge to reconsider.

Regardless of any of the above scenarios, I don’t see any benefit to leaving us in the dark. I hate to assume, and I would hope there’s a great explanation for why there hasn’t been a response. Hey, maybe next week you’ll come back and say we fixed it! And this post will have aged very badly, but as of right now, in my view there is 0 evidence to let me discern whether you are ignoring this issue and haven’t even opened the thread, or whether you are 15 minutes away from posting an update to it.

This is what I hoped Miike meant by “we work our hardest to ensure that we communicate as much as we can”. Then please, just drop in a small comment of where you are with our concerns. Whether you are just beginning to look at it, or about to fix it. We just want something.

DrZola

I’m gonna present my feedback here as constructively as I can here, I think that’s always important when disappointed.

I know there’s been a lot of talk about Kabam silently reading threads and taking it back to the team, like in this thread
https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/290994/next-months-buffs/p4

But I’m afraid if that’s the case it’s not actually enough here. I appreciate not every thread can be replied to, but if there is a moderator reading this thread and you’re picking and choosing which ones to reply to and which ones to take the feedback silently on, it seems a mistake to not choose this one to reply to.

There has clearly been a change in the AI, and at this point the reasoning doesn’t matter in regards to why we don’t have confirmation or comment on it, we would just like a comment on it. This AI change has been noticed by so many players, and staying quiet on this is not a good look. Regardless of the reasoning.

I can think of a few scenarios, and whatever the scenario is, or whatever Kabam currently think the scenario is, replying in this thread is the best way to communicate with us. Being silent and taking the feedback to the team is not enough here.

Here are the scenarios I can think of, all lead to communication with us.

1) there’s been a mistake and the AI profile has updated out of your control - talk to us, let us know there’s been a mistake and you’re working on fixing it

2) you’ve decided to update the AI profile without announcing it - explain why there was no announcement and explain that there has been a change instead of pushing it live and letting us find out and deal with it

3) there was supposed to be a future update to the AI, and it’s accidentally gone live - explain the situation and confirm there has been an unintended change.

4) changing something else in the game has caused the AI profile to change - tell us this is the case and let us know you’re working on fixing it

5) you don’t know what’s caused it - tell us, and let us know you’re trying to find out

6) you don’t believe or know if there is an AI profile change - in which case I’m sure many will disagree, but if that is the case, tell us you don’t think that, and please confirm if the game data is showing the same amount of special attacks being shown, or that the AI is acting identically to before these issues started showing up

7) the nightmare scenario, one that I dont think is true at all, you aren’t reading the thread or don’t plan on replying. Not sure what to suggest here, if it’s not being read it won’t matter. If you don’t want to reply, I’d urge to reconsider.

Regardless of any of the above scenarios, I don’t see any benefit to leaving us in the dark. I hate to assume, and I would hope there’s a great explanation for why there hasn’t been a response. Hey, maybe next week you’ll come back and say we fixed it! And this post will have aged very badly, but as of right now, in my view there is 0 evidence to let me discern whether you are ignoring this issue and haven’t even opened the thread, or whether you are 15 minutes away from posting an update to it.

This is what I hoped Miike meant by “we work our hardest to ensure that we communicate as much as we can”. Then please, just drop in a small comment of where you are with our concerns. Whether you are just beginning to look at it, or about to fix it. We just want something.

Going to go ahead and link to the other AI behavior thread.

https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/comment/2008246#Comment_2008246

The two are slightly different (one focuses on taunt, the other general behavior) but the crux is the same.

Dr. Zola

TimeGenesis

mmm d silence is still deafening me..

maybe as players we aren't making enough noise about this hence why it is being ignored..

or maybe to add to @ BitterSteel's scenario

8) Select few players are being used as guinea pigs for this new AI. - Highly doubt this scenario, but again some communication would be great.

All I want for Xmas is a response or acknowledgement of this from anyone on Kabams team

Quantum_Fizzix

This is, of course, purely anecdotal, but I’m finding the passive AI resistant to taunt debuffs as well. A recent case in point would be the current SQ, where Guardian’s taunt seems to me to be ineffective more times than not at getting the AI to drop its specials. She-Hulk taunt has similarly been less successful for me.

There’s ample complaining about the passive AI—but I’m concerned that the taunt debuff interaction also seems to be less effective under the current AI.

Anyone else finding this? Is there any way we could get an official comment on what some of us see in the most current AI behavior? Have there been intentional changes, or is this unintended?

Dr. Zola

I have been noticing this for a while now.

AI seems to have the ‘All or Nothing’ node active at all times, all modes.

Im using Stark Spidey in AW. His taunt straight up doesn’t work. AI backs into the corner and waits out the taunt (as another person mentioned).

AI is turtling most of the time.

Other AI “abilities” I’ve noticed recently;

The AI can dash at you, dodge back and backdraft a combo to your face in the space of a typical player intercept.

AI recovery can happen before a special completes. Sersei last month was doing this with her Sp2 (as was noted on the forums), I’ve been also been pummeled by AI getting up after a heavy while you are still locked down by the heavy animation. This happens during specials also.

AI recovering from their own heavy attacks and launching a special or a combo before the heavy animation is over (or at least so close to the end of it that it appears that way). In either case, there is no time to respond.

Game suddenly goes into stutter mode when AI launches a special. Is this a new ability in the AI or server lag?

AI has a short dash and a long dash….?

AI specials occasionally allow the AI to cover a lot more of the screen that players can with the same champs. This is especially noticeable in Luke cage, Venom and a few other that have a dash or leap in their special.

TimeGenesis

Bump...just keepin it alive

te_dua_shum

I'm bumping this thread because I didn't want to open a new one to share this info: kabam has removed the "opponent is more likely to use SPs" part from Taunt's description. You can still read it if you click on the blue word "taunt" but not if you just read the description. Was this intended or not? Is it intended that we have to check the blue word? Is this just an error and the text should be there? Or it's intended for Taunt to not increase Specials activation anymore, and there's an error when I click on the blue word?
I'm really trying to understand ^^"

DrZola

I'm bumping this thread because I didn't want to open a new one to share this info: kabam has removed the "opponent is more likely to use SPs" part from Taunt's description. You can still read it if you click on the blue word "taunt" but not if you just read the description. Was this intended or not? Is it intended that we have to check the blue word? Is this just an error and the text should be there? Or it's intended for Taunt to not increase Specials activation anymore, and there's an error when I click on the blue word?
I'm really trying to understand ^^"

Where is that description change? In a particular champ?

Dr. Zola

te_dua_shum

@DrZola it went away from any champion that had it: The Overseer, Guardian, Miles Morales, Starky and all others ^_^

DrZola

@DrZola it went away from any champion that had it: The Overseer, Guardian, Miles Morales, Starky and all others ^_^

Got it.

This call out then…

Dr. Zola

te_dua_shum

yes, that is exactly what I was writing about, the description seems to have been moved into that pop-up box. I think it's intentional (and kabam didn't actually remove the effect) because Taunt without the "SPs more likely" would basically be a Weakness, and because champions like Miles Morales have in their Taunt description a different Atk reduction and this conforms to what it can be read in the box ("unless otherwise stated").
A word from a moderator would still be appreciated... please ^_^

mostlyharmlessn

@DrZola it went away from any champion that had it: The Overseer, Guardian, Miles Morales, Starky and all others ^_^
Got it.

This call out then…

Dr. Zola

It seems the actual effect is 30% less likely to throw a special attack..... and that 30% less likely seems to happen 99% of the time.

Bugmat78

Just seeing this thread because it was in the bug section but yes this is annoying especially in map 8. Some AI seem programmed never to throw a special once they reach 2 bars also - they will take blocked hits or ignore the openings you give until they can corner and force you to take them to 3 bars or they'll get it themselves.
In map 7 before map 8 was released I had the same issues @BitterSteel mentioned on that prove yourself pathway with vision and his unblockable specials being fired at very weird points in the fight. Used to drive me up a wall even with CG and cosmic power boosts.

TimeGenesis

yes, that is exactly what I was writing about, the description seems to have been moved into that pop-up box. I think it's intentional (and kabam didn't actually remove the effect) because Taunt without the "SPs more likely" would basically be a Weakness, and because champions like Miles Morales have in their Taunt description a different Atk reduction and this conforms to what it can be read in the box ("unless otherwise stated").
A word from a moderator would still be appreciated... please ^_^

@te_dua_shum the pop-up is common for some abilities. You will find the same with Coldsnap, Petrify prolly some others too.

J0eySn0w

They don’t give a monkey about this issue, if they do they’d have responded a long time ago given when this issue was brought up. It’s funny how they pick and choose which issues they respond to and ones they don’t. “Silence means consent”, this AI change is true. As to why and what happened we don’t know. I’ve given up on this issue, it’s falling on deaf ears. I guess that’s what they want, so I’m glad some of you are still on it. Yet, I’m not sure what good could come out from this. It feels insulting and disrespectful that we’ve heard nothing from the team for all this time. If we want to be heard on this issue, I think a different approach will be the best way around this. I will get on board with any ideas cos this isn’t working.

Searmenis

It s a discussion about AI. Mods won't even say "hi" in a thread of the kind as always...