Unpopular opinion :This month's cav eq is one of the best well designed event quests if not the best

Prakhar_82Prakhar_82 Member Posts: 713 ★★★
Before starting, I just want to clear it out that I am not a whale. I am very casual free to play player who has not done any alliance stuff in last 6 months. I only have 5 rank 3s.

Here is the thing, since whenever cav eq came in the game they have been restrictive for a lot of players. But the restriction was not that big anymore when the got nerfed but still it was there as you were punished somehow for not using specific class.

This month cav eq is probably the least restrictive so far. People need to understand the fact that they don't NEED to use specific TAG champions. They can use any viable champs from their roster and get away with it. If you do so, there will be only one or two nodes that really make that much sense.

Another thing that the people who really bothered by it are new cavalier players. They need to understand the fact that cav diffivulty is basically somewhere middle between a new cav and a casual tb [like me]. When you became uncollected,you may have found uc difficulty hard as well. Your account will progress enough soon to be there somewhere in the middle. Just keep going.

When it comes to difficulty, it has always been like this. When it comes to design, it is lot less restrictive and just as fun.
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Comments

  • AverageDesiAverageDesi Member Posts: 5,260 ★★★★★
    Cross fights are amazing though
  • BocksaroxBocksarox Member Posts: 329 ★★★
    I think this design is good, but I don't think Cav players should be the target. The best example: having #mercenary and #guardians together is way too restrictive for most Cavalier accounts. Having a Thronebreaker account, I enjoyed the EQ, but when my Cavalier buddy asked me for advice I didn't know whow to help him.
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  • World EaterWorld Eater Member Posts: 3,782 ★★★★★
    The cross fights are a good addition but I haven’t found it that engaging or interesting at all.
  • Wicket329Wicket329 Member Posts: 3,445 ★★★★★
    I think the core idea here is good, but there are definitely pros and cons.

    I like a shakeup from the routine of “this quest requires this class.” We’ve been doing that for a long time now, so I definitely appreciate the variety on it. Although the nodes were a little wonky for my taste, I enjoyed bringing in a team of Spiderverse/Symbiote/Sinister Six champions for a quest. The quest encouraged the player to bring in champions who synergize well together, and that was very fun. No dead weight champs brought solely for synergy because they were outside the required class. Some of the other groupings could have been better, like Mercenaries/Guardians as mentioned above is very restrictive.

    I am concerned about the tag system because there are many, many champions who do not fall into *any* of the tags. For example, Odin and Silver Surfer are two of my favorite champions to use, and they have no quest in which they thrive here. If these tag based systems are going to persist (which I have no problem with!), I think Kabam will need to create new families of tags (such as possibly #Asgardians), and revisit already released champions.

    The cross fights are also very cool. And the fact that you can ramp up several of your champs and have them hitting extremely hard against the boss of the quest is also great. It solved a problem I had with the regular EQ design where your champions would feel strong and fun and then have to slog through a boring boss fight.

    I’m torn on the fact that you don’t have to really play into the nodes to succeed. On the one hand, it’s objectively good that players don’t need exceedingly deep or wide rosters to complete the EQ. On the other hand, and this isn’t exclusive to this current month’s EQ, it feels silly that I can just throw a team into a fight without reading the nodes and probably be fine.

    So, like I said at the top: the core ideas at play here are fun and I like them. They just need refining and expanding upon.
  • altavistaaltavista Member Posts: 1,510 ★★★★
    There is a confluence of a number of factors that make this month's Cav EQ poorly designed. These are not dependent at all on an individual player's roster or who they have ranked up, but endemic to the design of the game:

    1. Infrastructure (user interface) is not there to support content designed around tagged champions.
    You can filter by a Tag, but the search function is restrictive not additive (you can search for someone who is a Dimensional Being AND an Illuminati, but not for everyone who is either). Rather than simple button press (like with Classes), you have to button press and then type and then button press again. Typing out tags or scrolling through a long list of tags is not elegant. That adds an additional layer of burden before you can get to the fun (playing the actual game).

    2. Quest/chapter design doesn't readily let you know who to bring in.
    Sure, the Preview function alleviates this somehow, but it is not perfect. Before, you'd preview, see that you need Tech who can Armor Break, and then quickly filter to Tech champs and build your roster from there. This month, you have to preview, read which Tags are applicable (having to remember three things instead of one class), and what is the node mechanic you have to play around (having to remember that they get Armor up on block, plus each Armor up has an additional node effect like decreased debuff duration). Only then can you decide to build your team, which has the added time delay of having to search for Tagged champions.

    Sure, one can argue that Players could remember (or write down) that for Ch 1.2 they should bring Quake, Taskmaster, Apocalypse, NF, and Cable. But this is a workaround, which is evidence that something is poorly designed.

    Whether the actual feeling of the quest is fun or not (ie. it feels the right kind of difficult, the cross fight furies make the next fight feel like a power fantasy; the boss is too overtuned, etc.), these pre-fight (not champion ability pre-fight, but everything that occurs before you actually get to fight) design choices suck a lot of fun out of the EQ for me.



  • Hector_1475Hector_1475 Member Posts: 1,794 ★★★★★
    B00tblack said:

    I could write an essay too, but too bored to do this. But here's a video of cutting through your BS:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wooFCYLorUs

    Deal with is. You lack either the roster, the skill or the game knowledge. Your problem to figure it out.

    Using 6*R3’s isn’t playing at a Cav level difficulty. That’s TB!
    It should be easy for a TB player.
    Your video proved nothing to his counter his criticism.

    That could be a valid argument based on the name of the EQ: "Cavalier", I give you that. However, you need to understand that this is the higher difficulty of monthly EQ. People with MUCH more developed roster than mine and with multiple 6R3s (even a 6R4 nowadays) are supposed to be challenged by the difficulty of this content. Now we could argue that Kabam should / could rename it or create a higher difficulty addressed to progressed TB players. But shoulda / woulda / coulda. It is what it is.
  • thanks4playingthanks4playing Member Posts: 805 ★★★
    I can't comment on the design of later quests b/c i'm not reading 80% of the nodes and I'm bringing in pretty much the same team every quest. It's actually pretty boring and unchallenging. Yes I'm on CavEQ.

    But I really did try to honor Kabam's efforts on this quest. I initially read through the nodes, looked through my roster, etc., and it's just unrealistic. If you're going to make it based on tags, then the rank up resources (including ISO bonuses) need to also be based on tags. B/c nobody ranks up based on tags except for variants that are permanent (and not monthly). Thew ay the rankup ecosystem is designed by Kabam, rankups are based on class.

    If they want to go the tag route, it'd be awesome if a few roster spots can get a free bonus rankup for the duration of that quest. Otherwise it's unrealistic to expect players to use scarce resources to rank up champions for a quest that will only last a month and whose rewards are pretty meager.
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  • CoppinCoppin Member Posts: 2,601 ★★★★★
    This is a neverending story... People talk about the previous class EQ... Well that wasnt applied not too long ago..and when that happened people cried too..
    Some people say "That should be TB difficulty with better rewards"... Well then you will probably have new TBs complaining about how hard it is to have a roster of r3s to complete it and the unfairness..
    This months EQ in my opinion was fun, people complain about LC... And probably went thinking.. "Oh my LC is science im gonna take a Skill champ and wreck it derp derp" all u needed was an armor breaker..
    The merc chapter... All u needed was ANY heavy bleeder...
    People ask for challenges, game js stale.. new thing comes out and then cry about having to figire it out.. just burn your energy running proving grounds in auto mode...
    Been a while since i had fun on EQ and this was a lot of fun
  • CoppinCoppin Member Posts: 2,601 ★★★★★
    B00tblack said:

    B00tblack said:

    I could write an essay too, but too bored to do this. But here's a video of cutting through your BS:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wooFCYLorUs

    Deal with is. You lack either the roster, the skill or the game knowledge. Your problem to figure it out.

    Using 6*R3’s isn’t playing at a Cav level difficulty. That’s TB!
    It should be easy for a TB player.
    Your video proved nothing to his counter his criticism.

    That could be a valid argument based on the name of the EQ: "Cavalier", I give you that. However, you need to understand that this is the higher difficulty of monthly EQ. People with MUCH more developed roster than mine and with multiple 6R3s (even a 6R4 nowadays) are supposed to be challenged by the difficulty of this content. Now we could argue that Kabam should / could rename it or create a higher difficulty addressed to progressed TB players. But shoulda / woulda / coulda. It is what it is.
    No. It’s Cav difficultly!

    People with multiple 6*R3s are not supposed to be challenged by this difficultly. People with a roster of 5*R4s, 5*R5s & some 6*R2s are supposed to be challenged by it.
    It is Cav difficulty but just because you are Cav doesnt mean it will be easy...
    Lets put it this way... U might live in a rich neighborhood, but that doesnt mean u r rich...
  • BuggyDClownBuggyDClown Member Posts: 2,402 ★★★★★

    Cross fights are amazing though

    Yeah the thing I’m worried about with all this bad feedback is that the good stuff is going to be scrapped along with the rest.

    Please keep the cross fights they’re really fun!
    Plese elaborate the BAD FEEDBACK. Would like to hear your GOOD FEEDBACK. But what is BAD AND GOOD FEEDBACK BTW
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  • CoppinCoppin Member Posts: 2,601 ★★★★★

    I could write an essay too, but too bored to do this. But here's a video of cutting through your BS:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wooFCYLorUs

    Deal with is. You lack either the roster, the skill or the game knowledge. Your problem to figure it out.

    I would love to see that against science champs. Coming up with 1 video of one chapter doesn't solve the issue. If you want to see cheese type fights then there are lot of interaction like that. Stop defending the chore. At the core , most of the players know that this type of BS and lengthy and annoying nodes are unhealthy for FUN TIME.
    Making one video doesn't rectifies how lazy and poor execution was done in EQ. What if majority don't have Sorcerer at high rank??
    ... See thats a problem when u think that class advantage > champ ability... Why does it matter if its a science defender when u gotta NULLIFY an ability?.. yeah of course some science are easier to kill with a skill... But would u chose Wolverine to kill Korg?...
  • BuggyDClownBuggyDClown Member Posts: 2,402 ★★★★★
    Coppin said:

    This is a neverending story... People talk about the previous class EQ... Well that wasnt applied not too long ago..and when that happened people cried too..
    Some people say "That should be TB difficulty with better rewards"... Well then you will probably have new TBs complaining about how hard it is to have a roster of r3s to complete it and the unfairness..
    This months EQ in my opinion was fun, people complain about LC... And probably went thinking.. "Oh my LC is science im gonna take a Skill champ and wreck it derp derp" all u needed was an armor breaker..
    The merc chapter... All u needed was ANY heavy bleeder...
    People ask for challenges, game js stale.. new thing comes out and then cry about having to figire it out.. just burn your energy running proving grounds in auto mode...
    Been a while since i had fun on EQ and this was a lot of fun

    So you mean, we need to read like for 15 min and then waste 5 min for champs then go for path defenders. I guess that's the total time we put in map 6 or 7 now a days.
    This was fresh idea, no doubt. Was EQ undoable? No, it's doable & easy .Was is it fun? No it wasn't.
    Game devs create a mode, where you supposedly get good out of your champs I'm specific situation. You try the situation and find out that that's not the case. I have no problem using other champs. It's just what's the point in introducing the buff if in realistic situation we can't even use it.
    Tag champ system is restrictive because some good champs don't belong to any tag at all. Then there are tags which were not in this month eq, leading to space out other champs. Then the current tag champ which were in eq actually are outdated or out classed by others. People rarely rank some of them.
  • CoppinCoppin Member Posts: 2,601 ★★★★★
    B00tblack said:

    Coppin said:

    B00tblack said:

    B00tblack said:

    I could write an essay too, but too bored to do this. But here's a video of cutting through your BS:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wooFCYLorUs

    Deal with is. You lack either the roster, the skill or the game knowledge. Your problem to figure it out.

    Using 6*R3’s isn’t playing at a Cav level difficulty. That’s TB!
    It should be easy for a TB player.
    Your video proved nothing to his counter his criticism.

    That could be a valid argument based on the name of the EQ: "Cavalier", I give you that. However, you need to understand that this is the higher difficulty of monthly EQ. People with MUCH more developed roster than mine and with multiple 6R3s (even a 6R4 nowadays) are supposed to be challenged by the difficulty of this content. Now we could argue that Kabam should / could rename it or create a higher difficulty addressed to progressed TB players. But shoulda / woulda / coulda. It is what it is.
    No. It’s Cav difficultly!

    People with multiple 6*R3s are not supposed to be challenged by this difficultly. People with a roster of 5*R4s, 5*R5s & some 6*R2s are supposed to be challenged by it.
    It is Cav difficulty but just because you are Cav doesnt mean it will be easy...
    Lets put it this way... U might live in a rich neighborhood, but that doesnt mean u r rich...
    Reread what I said. I said Cavs are supposed to be challenged by it.

    Kabam needs Cavs to want to progress to TB. If the Cav players don’t it will kill the game.

    Can’t have Cav players not doing Cav difficulty, because the difficulty has been amped up to challenge TB players. Or the Cav players won’t progress, get disillusioned and quit the game.

    FYI - I’m TB with 8 6*R3s and sitting on a Tech T5.

    My intention here is to make sure Cav players maintain their interest in this game, because Cav difficulty is geared towards their progression.

    It’s been over a year since TB was introduced. TB difficulty is wayyyyy overdue!
    I got it, when i said "You" i didnt mean it pointing at you i meant to cavs in general...
    The argument that this current EQ should be TB difficulty by other people is not a good one either.. u would have new TBs complaining about the difficulty too..
  • ChikelChikel Member Posts: 2,108 ★★★★

    I could write an essay too, but too bored to do this. But here's a video of cutting through your BS:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wooFCYLorUs

    Deal with is. You lack either the roster, the skill or the game knowledge. Your problem to figure it out.

    You're completely missing the point.
    It's not about being able to "deal with it" It's whether it's fun (it's not), doable in the same length of time as other cav nodes (it's not). Does it achieve the aim of making you rank up the tagged champs like class-based Cav eq (Hell no)
    Also, what's the point of all this "Anyone can do it" if the node is supposed to make you use the tagged champs.
    Finally, an unpopular opinion is not necessarily a correct opinion only you and a few enlightened group of people hold. It can also be wrong and I think this one is.
    There are good and bad parts of Cav eq. People give feedback to improve the bad parts. Telling them, it's not the design, it's your "skills" or roster, just "git gud" is not exactly constructive feedback.
  • Hector_1475Hector_1475 Member Posts: 1,794 ★★★★★
    @BuggyDClown

    Indeed, that is my video. Don’t hide behind 6R3 rank. You know that 15-20% more damage and health over a 6R2 / 5R5 does not change a thing. It’s the way the fight was controlled. Any great Mystic nullified can do this fight and this whole path, actually, even as R5 or 6R2.

    Against Science champs you say? Well, there are actually 3 options:

    1. Keep using your Mystic nullifier, because he / she will nullify that unstoppable out. Awesome…?

    2. Use Nick Fury. I did, against that Yellowjacket for example

    3. Use a different champion. I will give you a hint: it’s a Mutant and part of the above team. With Slow on Sp1. Who inflicts a passive stun and fights that node. Come on, you will find it with your deep game knowledge. I used her against Ant-man, since you ask. Long fight? Sure. But I finished at 100% health.


  • Hector_1475Hector_1475 Member Posts: 1,794 ★★★★★
    @Chikel I am the one missing the point? It is not fun…?

    Sorry my good man. It has been crazy fun for me. Agree to disagree. And I’m being TOTALLY honest here and not trying to “win” an internet debate. It has been the most fun and challenging Cavaloer EQ of the past months for me.

    Some of these champions teams are ranked up for me. Others not. It didn’t matter, because I could still use anyone, as proven to my video. As I said, this is not a single / cheese fight. The same tactic was applied to the whole path.


    But you know, whatever.
  • KnightNvrEndingKnightNvrEnding Member Posts: 452 ★★★
    I’ve personally really enjoyed this months EQ lol I suppose IF you didn’t have the champs that cater to the Cav nodes you might not enjoy it as much but overall I found it really fun…Cav nodes did make the bosses ridiculously easy tho(I’m looking at you Kraven).
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