A.I. when using Hercules.

Skydad23Skydad23 Member Posts: 556 ★★★
edited January 2022 in General Discussion
Has anyone else noticed that the AI acts completely different when you’re using Hercules? Might just be me but was curious if anyone else has noticed this?

Comments

  • Skydad23Skydad23 Member Posts: 556 ★★★
    I have trouble especially early on in the fight getting the The defender to even Dash in AI plays more passive now anyway but even more passive against Hercules.
  • IvarTheBonelessIvarTheBoneless Member Posts: 1,276 ★★★★

    Light intercept is what I noticed

    Yep I also noticed them just walking and then light intercept when you dash in.

    But I think it's a me problem, backdrafting in the middle of the arena with infiriate debuff can get some irregular AI.
  • Skydad23Skydad23 Member Posts: 556 ★★★
    Does anyone else know of any other champs that the AI plays very noticeably different against? I mean it’s so blatantly obvious how different the AI plays against Hercules and I can’t think of any other champ that I can notice it against?
  • Mother_FlerkenMother_Flerken Member Posts: 510 ★★★
    Lol bunch of people thinking it's just going to make the ai dash in and get your intercept 100%, still requires timing and skill with the increased chance they are more likely to dash in.
  • HagureMeijinHagureMeijin Member Posts: 89
    Skydad23 said:

    Does anyone else know of any other champs that the AI plays very noticeably different against? I mean it’s so blatantly obvious how different the AI plays against Hercules and I can’t think of any other champ that I can notice it against?

    Hercules and ProfX for me. Defender tends to stay away and out of range if Mind Control is active and I am charging heavy.
  • SquirrelguySquirrelguy Member Posts: 2,654 ★★★★★
    edited January 2022
    TLDR: If you play differently, then the AI will play differently. Thats how things work. Also, there has been differing levels of difficulty in AI since the beginning of the game.

    I feel like people here are not entirely understanding the infuriate. Sure, it makes the defender "more aggressive" but one of the most common responses to a backdraft intercept (when the opponent is not backed up to the wall) is a light intercept. The infuriate likely increases the chance that they will just try to dash into you, but it doesn't reduce the chance of light intercept to zero. I would guess that you play with a much more aggressive playstyle with Herc than you do with most other champs, so you just get light intercepted more often than you do normally, but not more often than you should.

    A small tutorial on backdraft intercepting for those not as used to it:
    At some point mid-combo, instead of finishing a combo with a 4th light attack or a 2nd medium attack, you instead dash backwards (effectively ending your combo) and then dash back forward in an attempt to catch the defender unprepared and start a new combo without the need to parry, or waste time, or in some cases to manage their power level better.
    When you dash back in to the opponent, there are really only a limited number of responses for them. They could:
    throw a special attack (if you were desperate enough to do this while they are over 1 bar of power),
    heavy attack (rare, but possible),
    try to dash in to you (this is the best case scenario because of timing, eg. your forward dash will intercept their dash and congrats, you have successfully backdraft intercepted)
    dash back (similar to above, but it is possible that your forward dash will interrupt this and you can continue the combo but annoyingly, this doesn't seem to count as an intercept for most nodes..... it's fine.....)
    light attack in the middle of your forward dash, which can interrupt it and get you wrecked (which seems to be what people are complaining about here)

    While Kabam seems to equate "more aggressive" (which is the description on Herc's infuriate debuff) with more likely to dash forward and attack , the likelihood of a light intercept on any other attempted backdraft is pretty high (I would guess anywhere from 30-50%) so reducing that does not mean that it is impossible. If you backdraft significantly more with Herc than other champions, you should be ready to get light intercepted more often.

    As a separate note, I feel like AI differences have been fairly obvious throughout the game. Champions like Venom have always seemed a bit more aggressive, defenders with power sting or porker poppers seem more likely to hold on to the special attacks until after they have expired, etc. It is very possible that the AI indeed fights Herc differently, but it is also possible that you are playing him differently than you play other champs and prompting different responses from the AI. The defenders in Act 1-3 are ridiculously passive compared to later chapters. It would make sense that it is possible for them to specify certain defending patterns based upon scenarios like champion abilities.

    Hopefully that all made sense. I also didn't add the backdraft tutorial to make people seem incompetent, but just as a heads up for newer players. It took me a long time to really get the hang of it and I like helping others.

    Edit: grammar
  • GinjabredMonstaGinjabredMonsta Member, Guardian Posts: 6,482 Guardian
    Not so much the AI acting different for me, but I get more input control issues when I use him
  • Bugmat78Bugmat78 Member Posts: 2,381 ★★★★★
    It's also pretty clear the AI will fight differently when face with certain champs ie it's specifically programmed to adapt to certain opponents. In some content vs Ghost the AI will wait out the phase timer every time. Same with Kitty Pryde. It's annoying, but I guess a real opponent wouldn't keep falling for the same trick so...
  • AburaeesAburaees Member Posts: 514 ★★★
    Thought I’d try this again in AQ, now instead of getting light intercepted I’m getting mediumed in the face at the end of my dex.

    Infuriate is a trap!
  • EtherealityEthereality Member Posts: 685 ★★★
    edited February 2022
    So.. let me get this straight...


    Infuriate makes the opponent more likely to be aggressive....

    Uhm, light intercepting (backdraft or bot) or medium intercepting you is a pretty aggressive thing to do by the AI...


    And you are complaining then that the AI is doing what they're supposed to do if they have infuriate on them?????? Huh????


    Smh... seems to me your problem is assuming that light intercepting your backdraft is a behavior that is not supposed to be considered as "aggressive". If the opponent intercepts you ( backdraft or not) then it's being aggressive. Period. This is because the "non aggressive" thing to do by the AI would to block or evade/dex (if in arena) your dash. When you are attempting your backdraft maneuver you are effectively giving the AI a window to retaliate, and thus, an infuriated (hence aggressive) AI will retaliate. Period.

    So what should YOU do then? Well if the opponent is infuriated then YOU SHOULD BE PASSIVE. YOU wait till they come at you and then YOU intercept them with medium, heavy or special. I really don't get the hullabaloo the OP is making out if this issue. Doing a backdraft intercept is NOT being passive on your end, it's actually a pretty actively aggressive way to trick the AI into dashing at you and well... AI does include in it the word INTELLIGENCE on it so the "intelligent " thing to do by the AI is to aggressively respond to your very active attempt to trick them into dashing at them . It really is that simple
  • AburaeesAburaees Member Posts: 514 ★★★

    So.. let me get this straight...


    Infuriate makes the opponent more likely to be aggressive....

    Uhm, light intercepting (backdraft or bot) or medium intercepting you is a pretty aggressive thing to do by the AI...


    And you are complaining then that the AI is doing what they're supposed to do if they have infuriate on them?????? Huh????


    Smh... seems to me your problem is assuming that light intercepting your backdraft is a behavior that is not supposed to be considered as "aggressive". If the opponent intercepts you ( backdraft or not) then it's being aggressive. Period. This is because the "non aggressive" thing to do by the AI would to block or evade/dex (if in arena) your dash. When you are attempting your backdraft maneuver you are effectively giving the AI a window to retaliate, and thus, an infuriated (hence aggressive) AI will retaliate. Period.

    So what should YOU do then? Well if the opponent is infuriated then YOU SHOULD BE PASSIVE. YOU wait till they come at you and then YOU intercept them with medium, heavy or special. I really don't get the hullabaloo the OP is making out if this issue. Doing a backdraft intercept is NOT being passive on your end, it's actually a pretty actively aggressive way to trick the AI into dashing at you and well... AI does include in it the word INTELLIGENCE on it so the "intelligent " thing to do by the AI is to aggressively respond to your very active attempt to trick them into dashing at them . It really is that simple


    If you read the dev notes in the spotlight, infuriate is meant to make backdraft intercept safer. In practice it does not. It’s a false sense of security.


  • Tru100Tru100 Member Posts: 260 ★★
    Bugmat78 said:

    It's also pretty clear the AI will fight differently when face with certain champs ie it's specifically programmed to adapt to certain opponents. In some content vs Ghost the AI will wait out the phase timer every time. Same with Kitty Pryde. It's annoying, but I guess a real opponent wouldn't keep falling for the same trick so...

    Agree w this. More passive w Herc, Ghost. More aggressive w Quake, or if u back yourself against the wall. Don’t cooperate w timers. Hate you, stupid AI!
  • K00shMaanK00shMaan Member Posts: 1,289 ★★★★

    TLDR: As a separate note, I feel like AI differences have been fairly obvious throughout the game. Champions like Venom have always seemed a bit more aggressive, defenders with power sting or porker poppers seem more likely to hold on to the special attacks until after they have expired, etc. It is very possible that the AI indeed fights Herc differently, but it is also possible that you are playing him differently than you play other champs and prompting different responses from the AI. The defenders in Act 1-3 are ridiculously passive compared to later chapters. It would make sense that it is possible for them to specify certain defending patterns based upon scenarios like champion abilities.
    Edit: grammar

    This is definitely an area I wish they would improved on communicating. Venom don't just "seem" more aggressive. There are specific things that he does frequently that other characters don't do. He will throw a SP2 even if you are on the opposite side of the screen, blocking or not blocking. Most characters don't do that but others do. Sabretooth has the same AI on his SP1, Killmonger does as well on his SP2. These are traits that you can count on. Similarly, we also all know that Mordo is incredibly unlikely to attack when his Power Gain is active. Hyperion is generally more likely to throw his specials attacks when his Power Gain is active. Could all of these be accidents? Maybe. but I think it's more likely that they were programmed this way intentionally. Especially since there are nodes and abilities in this game that actively state they alter the AI of the defender.

  • SquirrelguySquirrelguy Member Posts: 2,654 ★★★★★
    K00shMaan said:

    TLDR: As a separate note, I feel like AI differences have been fairly obvious throughout the game. Champions like Venom have always seemed a bit more aggressive, defenders with power sting or porker poppers seem more likely to hold on to the special attacks until after they have expired, etc. It is very possible that the AI indeed fights Herc differently, but it is also possible that you are playing him differently than you play other champs and prompting different responses from the AI. The defenders in Act 1-3 are ridiculously passive compared to later chapters. It would make sense that it is possible for them to specify certain defending patterns based upon scenarios like champion abilities.
    Edit: grammar

    This is definitely an area I wish they would improved on communicating. Venom don't just "seem" more aggressive. There are specific things that he does frequently that other characters don't do. He will throw a SP2 even if you are on the opposite side of the screen, blocking or not blocking. Most characters don't do that but others do. Sabretooth has the same AI on his SP1, Killmonger does as well on his SP2. These are traits that you can count on. Similarly, we also all know that Mordo is incredibly unlikely to attack when his Power Gain is active. Hyperion is generally more likely to throw his specials attacks when his Power Gain is active. Could all of these be accidents? Maybe. but I think it's more likely that they were programmed this way intentionally. Especially since there are nodes and abilities in this game that actively state they alter the AI of the defender.

    I mean, I get your point, but that’s kinda a difficult thing for them to communicate unless they just flat out give us the code with notes. I always treated it as just learning another feature of the champion’s abilities. Sucks to keep all that in mind when playing, but is another reason why mcoc is so good: even the AI of defenders is diverse.
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