Rebalance Battlegrounds

Minderu

I understand that it is a beta, but battlegrounds need some MAJOR rebalancing because most of my fight look like this. Does this seem like a fair fight?

Wicket329

What is your rating?

DNA3000

When you say "most" of your fights look like that, are you implying that you are losing most of your matches? Because that's not possible: if you keep losing, you will quickly fall to a rating where you cannot match against such people (unless they are *seriously* dumping rating). Eventually, everyone rises or falls to the level of their competition. This takes a few matches, and there's still going to be some variability in there - I've won and lost five in a row at times - but there's a settlement period where everyone drifts into approximately their average rating. At that point they are winning and losing about 50% of their matches, regardless of what their competition looks like. Which is what it is supposed to look like in the long run.

The devs might make some adjustments to the way the match system works during the initial ramp up before go-live. But in the long run, you see guys like that if you win enough to have to face guys like that, no matter what your own roster looks like. You win, you move up, you face harder competition.

TheBair123

i hadn't heard the word rebalance in a long time and almost forgot it existed. but this happens, you'll get better matchups as you go higher up on the leaderboard.

psp742

If I see they have numerous rank3 6* or rank4 6*, I just forfeit the match.. no sense using my champions for a loss.. aside from those, I also get.. battleground fight loading screen that hangs and load with only 23 to 30sec left in match.. another bug is screen hangs.. unable to go back or forfeit.. need to cl9se the mcoc game and restart game.. it could either be I loss or the other summoner quit before be because it hang on his end too.

Aleor

If you only care about rewards, taking is actually a smarter choice atm. Also if you lose the first fight and it wasn't your gambit to gain some advantage in future rounds, I'd recommend to give up as well — you'll save your 2 champs' energy and can expect a weaker opponent. Also if your opponent follows the same logic, you only have to win 1 round, wich also saves your energy
If they leave it was is with probably done rank rewards, there will always be people who have poor roster but play better then those who inverted more time/money into the game and therefore will have advantage in a fight

Colinwhitworth69

I wish people wouldn’t quit matches, but I get it. My strategy is after I work my way up to under 1000, I switch to only using my five stars until I slide back down. I never quit, just get my hat handed to me a bit. But I win a few, and the wins are satisfying when the other player has a stacked 6s roster.

I don’t care about the leaderboard. Obviously. I love the chess match and the strategizing counters. If I play enough I’ll get all the milestones. So I don’t sweat losing. I just like to play rather than quit.

Corkscrew

Colinwhitworth69 said:

I wish people wouldn’t quit matches, but I get it. My strategy is after I work my way up to under 1000, I switch to only using my five stars until I slide back down. I never quit, just get my hat handed to me a bit. But I win a few, and the wins are satisfying when the other player has a stacked 6s roster.

I don’t care about the leaderboard. Obviously. I love the chess match and the strategizing counters. If I play enough I’ll get all the milestones. So I don’t sweat losing. I just like to play rather than quit.

There is almost no downside to someone quitting on you, apart from the losing the thrill of the kill.
You get the win for milestones (and rating if you care)
You also don't use some of your champs, so less cooldown to deal with.

SirGamesBond

BG needs to launch officially to get you ar your right progression matchups.
It's disheartening to see low rating guys facing all r3s

LordSmasher

As long as the final reward system is rank matters most then the issues will go.

Currently forfeiting is a much better outcome than losing in a fight. That shouldn't happen.

Worknprogress

LordSmasher said:

As long as the final reward system is rank matters most then the issues will go.

Currently forfeiting is a much better outcome than losing in a fight. That shouldn't happen.

This.

As long as maintaining as high a rank as possible is incentivized enough in the final version, things will actually even out for the most part.

Graves_3

Colinwhitworth69 said:

I wish people wouldn’t quit matches, but I get it. My strategy is after I work my way up to under 1000, I switch to only using my five stars until I slide back down. I never quit, just get my hat handed to me a bit. But I win a few, and the wins are satisfying when the other player has a stacked 6s roster.

I don’t care about the leaderboard. Obviously. I love the chess match and the strategizing counters. If I play enough I’ll get all the milestones. So I don’t sweat losing. I just like to play rather than quit.

Using 5* or low ranked champs is any better then quitting? Basically you are lowering your rating either way. Some people would actually like to save time but just forfeiting their matches so it’s not any worse than what you do.

K00shMaan

As long as you (and you're opponent) are genuinely trying to win, you should achieve a rating where you regularly win 50%~ of the matches. This is the only inevitable outcome. You will face people with more developed rosters. There is a reason their rating is the same as yours. I mostly rank 3 6 stars and I've noticed that if I take a 5 hit combo, that will generally affect my score enough that some using Rank 4 5 stars can actually win the fight if they do it flawlessly. This doesn't even take into consideration champion selection and strategy yet. There is a lot of ground that can be made up with superior play compared to someone just being average with a bigger roster.

That being said, people are tanking as for some that is a more efficient strategy for getting rewards out of the game mode. This will become less of an issue if there are some kind of Season/Rank Rewards implemented.

DNA3000

GluteusMaximus said:

DNA3000 said:

When you say "most" of your fights look like that, are you implying that you are losing most of your matches? Because that's not possible: if you keep losing, you will quickly fall to a rating where you cannot match against such people (unless they are *seriously* dumping rating). Eventually, everyone rises or falls to the level of their competition. This takes a few matches, and there's still going to be some variability in there - I've won and lost five in a row at times - but there's a settlement period where everyone drifts into approximately their average rating. At that point they are winning and losing about 50% of their matches, regardless of what their competition looks like. Which is what it is supposed to look like in the long run.

The devs might make some adjustments to the way the match system works during the initial ramp up before go-live. But in the long run, you see guys like that if you win enough to have to face guys like that, no matter what your own roster looks like. You win, you move up, you face harder competition.

You clearly missed the part where 1) it's enforced that everyone should try to win every match and 2) people who stack their decks with only 2* champs for a good run who then replace them with their normal 6r3 army after a few laughs are somehow shamed into not gaming the system.

For some, the actual game isn't nearly as fun as the gaming of the game.

Usually I let these go, but I'm less inclined this time. What specifically in my post makes it seem to you that I "clearly missed" any of the completely irrelevant things you mention?

Now that you've properly informed me of these things I clearly missed, which words am I supposed to correct in my original post? Because I can't find any. I clearly missed them.

Kabam Jax

Thanks for your feedback!

The Battlegrounds game mode is still in beta so we appreciate any info about our players' experience. As of now, tweaks to matchmaking are something actively being discussed. Currently, players all start as equals where matchmaking is concerned. As a result, it means that players have a longer process to settle into a comfortable competitive bracket, which can be frustrating. Future changes will hopefully address this and shorten that process.

After the beta, we will consider all the feedback we have before BG becomes an official game mode, so keep it coming!

Worknprogress

Kabam Jax said:

Thanks for your feedback!

The Battlegrounds game mode is still in beta so we appreciate any info about our players' experience. As of now, tweaks to matchmaking are something actively being discussed. Currently, players all start as equals where matchmaking is concerned. As a result, it means that players have a longer process to settle into a comfortable competitive bracket, which can be frustrating. Future changes will hopefully address this and shorten that process.

After the beta, we will consider all the feedback we have before BG becomes an official game mode, so keep it coming!

For the initial roll out of the live mode, you could possibly start players at specific ratings based on progression levels. It's still not a perfect system but would at least somewhat stagger players initially so that you don't have Paragon players matching someone Uncollected right out the gate.

DNA3000

SCP1504 said:

DNA3000 said:

When you say "most" of your fights look like that, are you implying that you are losing most of your matches? Because that's not possible: if you keep losing, you will quickly fall to a rating where you cannot match against such people (unless they are *seriously* dumping rating). Eventually, everyone rises or falls to the level of their competition. This takes a few matches, and there's still going to be some variability in there - I've won and lost five in a row at times - but there's a settlement period where everyone drifts into approximately their average rating. At that point they are winning and losing about 50% of their matches, regardless of what their competition looks like. Which is what it is supposed to look like in the long run.

The devs might make some adjustments to the way the match system works during the initial ramp up before go-live. But in the long run, you see guys like that if you win enough to have to face guys like that, no matter what your own roster looks like. You win, you move up, you face harder competition.

Many strong players forfeit a couple matches in a row to get several easy wins in a row
Some people with1500+ rating have most of their points from matches forfeit to them

Not only that, but did you know that many players forfeit matches to lower their rating so they can get easier wins afterwards?

I've also heard that players sometimes forfeit their battleground matches so that it becomes easier to win.

But what is really surprising is that I know for a fact that players actually lose matches deliberately because it gives them easy wins.

It is still impossible to consistently lose though.

BitterSteel

Worknprogress said:

Kabam Jax said:

Thanks for your feedback!

The Battlegrounds game mode is still in beta so we appreciate any info about our players' experience. As of now, tweaks to matchmaking are something actively being discussed. Currently, players all start as equals where matchmaking is concerned. As a result, it means that players have a longer process to settle into a comfortable competitive bracket, which can be frustrating. Future changes will hopefully address this and shorten that process.

After the beta, we will consider all the feedback we have before BG becomes an official game mode, so keep it coming!

For the initial roll out of the live mode, you could possibly start players at specific ratings based on progression levels. It's still not a perfect system but would at least somewhat stagger players initially so that you don't have Paragon players matching someone Uncollected right out the gate.

Yeah that’s a good call. It’ll nudge the ratings towards what they’ll trend towards in the end

DNA3000

Worknprogress said:

Kabam Jax said:

Thanks for your feedback!

The Battlegrounds game mode is still in beta so we appreciate any info about our players' experience. As of now, tweaks to matchmaking are something actively being discussed. Currently, players all start as equals where matchmaking is concerned. As a result, it means that players have a longer process to settle into a comfortable competitive bracket, which can be frustrating. Future changes will hopefully address this and shorten that process.

After the beta, we will consider all the feedback we have before BG becomes an official game mode, so keep it coming!

For the initial roll out of the live mode, you could possibly start players at specific ratings based on progression levels. It's still not a perfect system but would at least somewhat stagger players initially so that you don't have Paragon players matching someone Uncollected right out the gate.

My guess is they have enough data at this point to construct a normalization curve that calculates the statistical estimated rating of a player of X prestige. You'd need to throw the forfeits out and then estimate the true average rating based on estimated rating trajectory, but this is doable.

Wozzle007

DNA3000 said:

SCP1504 said:

DNA3000 said:

When you say "most" of your fights look like that, are you implying that you are losing most of your matches? Because that's not possible: if you keep losing, you will quickly fall to a rating where you cannot match against such people (unless they are *seriously* dumping rating). Eventually, everyone rises or falls to the level of their competition. This takes a few matches, and there's still going to be some variability in there - I've won and lost five in a row at times - but there's a settlement period where everyone drifts into approximately their average rating. At that point they are winning and losing about 50% of their matches, regardless of what their competition looks like. Which is what it is supposed to look like in the long run.

The devs might make some adjustments to the way the match system works during the initial ramp up before go-live. But in the long run, you see guys like that if you win enough to have to face guys like that, no matter what your own roster looks like. You win, you move up, you face harder competition.

Many strong players forfeit a couple matches in a row to get several easy wins in a row
Some people with1500+ rating have most of their points from matches forfeit to them

Not only that, but did you know that many players forfeit matches to lower their rating so they can get easier wins afterwards?

I've also heard that players sometimes forfeit their battleground matches so that it becomes easier to win.

But what is really surprising is that I know for a fact that players actually lose matches deliberately because it gives them easy wins.

It is still impossible to consistently lose though.

That’s pretty much what I do at the moment. In first beta, was trying to win every fight and settled around the 1700 mark. But given the cost to refresh best champs to stay viable and win, it’s easier to tank rating to 1100-1200 then just win every match via forfeit getting back up to around 1550 without actually needing to fight. It’s quite often a race to who can forfeit quicker.

Wozzle007

Gmonkey said:

Wozzle007 said:

DNA3000 said:

SCP1504 said:

DNA3000 said:

When you say "most" of your fights look like that, are you implying that you are losing most of your matches? Because that's not possible: if you keep losing, you will quickly fall to a rating where you cannot match against such people (unless they are *seriously* dumping rating). Eventually, everyone rises or falls to the level of their competition. This takes a few matches, and there's still going to be some variability in there - I've won and lost five in a row at times - but there's a settlement period where everyone drifts into approximately their average rating. At that point they are winning and losing about 50% of their matches, regardless of what their competition looks like. Which is what it is supposed to look like in the long run.

The devs might make some adjustments to the way the match system works during the initial ramp up before go-live. But in the long run, you see guys like that if you win enough to have to face guys like that, no matter what your own roster looks like. You win, you move up, you face harder competition.

Many strong players forfeit a couple matches in a row to get several easy wins in a row
Some people with1500+ rating have most of their points from matches forfeit to them

Not only that, but did you know that many players forfeit matches to lower their rating so they can get easier wins afterwards?

I've also heard that players sometimes forfeit their battleground matches so that it becomes easier to win.

But what is really surprising is that I know for a fact that players actually lose matches deliberately because it gives them easy wins.

It is still impossible to consistently lose though.

That’s pretty much what I do at the moment. In first beta, was trying to win every fight and settled around the 1700 mark. But given the cost to refresh best champs to stay viable and win, it’s easier to tank rating to 1100-1200 then just win every match via forfeit getting back up to around 1550 without actually needing to fight. It’s quite often a race to who can forfeit quicker.

I got to top few hundred at one point. But controls are so bad I now take a combo at least once a fight and no it is not the unblockable causing that. Just unregistered parries. So now I tank the rating and get the rewards, the game is way to frustrating with the dropped inputs.

Oh I forgot about the frustration of dropped inputs and my attackers randomly running forward into and special whilst I’m dashing backwards. Smashing into defender with a 5 hit combo only for hit 4 to not register and getting clapped, losing the fight a few hundred points makes me feel it’s not worth the hassle to be competitive. I only want the battle ground currency to be Sig stones and 6* shards. The mode is great fun when it inputs all work, but the economics of actually playing it has stifled it for me. Have no interest in whilst the it’s setup this way. But I do want those Sig stones!

Worknprogress

DNA3000 said:

Worknprogress said:

Kabam Jax said:

Thanks for your feedback!

The Battlegrounds game mode is still in beta so we appreciate any info about our players' experience. As of now, tweaks to matchmaking are something actively being discussed. Currently, players all start as equals where matchmaking is concerned. As a result, it means that players have a longer process to settle into a comfortable competitive bracket, which can be frustrating. Future changes will hopefully address this and shorten that process.

After the beta, we will consider all the feedback we have before BG becomes an official game mode, so keep it coming!

For the initial roll out of the live mode, you could possibly start players at specific ratings based on progression levels. It's still not a perfect system but would at least somewhat stagger players initially so that you don't have Paragon players matching someone Uncollected right out the gate.

My guess is they have enough data at this point to construct a normalization curve that calculates the statistical estimated rating of a player of X prestige. You'd need to throw the forfeits out and then estimate the true average rating based on estimated rating trajectory, but this is doable.

Oh I'm sure it's doable. It would probably go aong way to alleviate some of the initial pain for people a bit lower down the progression ladder I feel.

Doing something along those lines and then making sure keeping a high rating is incentivized enough to make the stronger roster want to do so, and I think there would be significantly less complaints about matching even using the current system.