Eop-Anger

Unfair Fight??
I just think with nodes like power alternator, encrouching stun, enemy who can auto-block , guy who is nullify immune and there is node like rich gets richer it just becomes rng fight sometime where if like ai doesn't use specials (to accommodate power alternator) or ai used special while timer runs out of encrouching stun ...!!! And ofcourse i may be wrong so do correct me...!!

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Chovner

Eternity of Pain should just be renamed "Summoner Item Cleanup"...

DNA3000

You're not wrong. It is an unfair fight. It is supposed to be an unfair fight. Whether it is too unfair is a subjective thing though. It is extremely difficult to make content that is extremely difficult, but in a way people think is still fair. And the devs needed to make twelve such fights for EoP.

GinjabredMonsta

Can't wait to see what bishop's nodes are -_-

Erik_Killmonger1001

I think it fills the brief however a lot of players are thinking it should be built for them, to me eternity of pain says it should be really difficult content built for the absolutely top players in game which I think anger is shaping up to be.

Gamer

But I’m haven to said this fight wasn’t one of the better fight. I’m like the Hercules way more that’s this’ll stupid auto block parry. And so one

Kerneas

Is it a difficulty when it is purely random tho? I had a solid 20 runs of the boss before spending (which I admit isn't too much) and my impression is, that the AI has complete control over the fight. Once its powergain starts, it becomes passive and there is nothing one can do. Once encroaching stun comes near, it loves to throw its specials. Which is alright, it is random and that has always been part of this game. However, I wouldn't say player skill and roster is the main thing needed to beat this fight. I feel like the AI behavior (which is "random") prevails over these qualities

MattDRK

DNA3000

Is it purely random though? I don't think we know enough about how the AI behaves to say. It is possible that the AI can be manipulated at least partially, and it is just that the science of how to do this isn't fully understood yet - in other words, the skill doesn't exist yet. I do know that there are a lot of fights where people say the AI makes it completely impossible due to random behavior, that I manage to do not only without those random behaviors constantly foiling the fight, but I'm able to at least partially repeat the same behavior fairly consistently. Crossbones, for example, is one of those fights. I'm not skillful enough to have consistently gotten solos from him, but after some practice I was able to fairly consistently bait specials out of him. How I could do that is open to debate: I posted my theories but who knows.

A lot of fights have been described as completely unfair because skill alone cannot beat them, until someone comes along and beats them with skill. Maybe very rarified skill few possess, maybe with tactics no one even thought to try until they came along, but skillful play nonetheless. Once we get up to the point where the content is attempting to challenge the highest levels of skill, how do we even judge if it is beyond all skill, when it is intended to be beyond most people's skill. Who judges that?

Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic. Maybe any sufficiently advanced skill level is indistinguishable from luck.

I am *not* saying the AI is not unfair in some impossible to avoid random way. I'm just saying I don't think we can know that with any certainty.

AverageDesi

It was a joke with CGR and boosts. Almost funny

willrun4adonut

Starts with three bars of power.

Hera1d_of_Ga1actus

Warlock be like:

Hickdog27

Not a fan of putting the heal block node on these fights. It’s just a unit grab to get people to switch out of suicides.

PhatPhish

For me, it’s very demoralizing content. Fighting over and over hoping the AI cooperates “this time”. I squeaked through Hercules with way too many revives to get the Psychic Shielding requirement. Trying to pick up the small and mystic bonuses for Overseer is making me re-think this game.

DNA3000

So I finally finished it. Although I had to spend revives (many, many revives) I believe this is false in my experience: at least in the sense that while the AI behavior does play a significant role in the fight, it does so in relatively predictable ways most of the time.

For me, the problem was simply too much to keep track of. I'm not a spring chicken anymore, and trying to see and track encroaching stun's timer, and the power exchange timer, and Overseer's autoblock timer, and Overseer's power, and my power, and the actual fight itself, was just too much. But I did come upon a strategy that I believe is 90% deterministic, if you have the skill to pull it off (I couldn't for more than short bursts).

Start the fight and creep up to just under one bar of power (on Overseer). Then wait until his power alternator timer expires, which means encroaching stun is now at five seconds. Bait an attack out of him and then slow play a combo into him and launch an SP1 as encroaching stun expires. Now bait his SP1 When he throws it, start intercepting hiim as long as he's below one bar of power. While his autoblock is up and he has less than one bar of power he becomes super aggressive and I had no problem attacking once and then backing off and throwing into an intercept. Once he has a bar of power, you can't do that safely anymore, so start throwing short combos at him. Get him to throw SP1 again or SP2. Don't push him too much above exactly two bars of power.

Meanwhile, if you're using something that can gain buff advantage over him, build your own power. At this point, you have to reset into the right configuration of timers to repeat the process. I've done it enough times to know it is possible, and the AI almost never did anything wonky to throw me out of it. Rather, I just kept losing track of where I was. And if you get into a bad spot *then* passive AI can randomly get you killed, because the AI won't just cooperate with you to help you out. But if you stay dead center in the optimal sequence of events, which requires a level of situational awareness and combat skill I don't have, you can then ride this wave to a solo.

Basically, the AI won't help you save a mistake: the AI will punish you for the slightest error. But it won't just spazz out randomly if you play absolutely optimally. At least it won't most of the time. So there is some level of skill that makes AI behavior mostly irrelevant. I don't possess it, but I'm convinced it exists.

Using this basic strategy and a ton of revives that were going to expire anyway, I got the grand slam with Guillotine. I just wish my hands and eyes were ~~ten~~ twenty years younger.

Saiyan

They can and have made an "unfair" yet fair fight in the past.

Ikirus EOP was just like that. Dude had so much working against us yet with a decent counter and some skill play, the solo was possible. Hell you could say that about every EOp fight so far. I've managed to solo every single one cept this one. Way to much RGN/Luck involved.

What luck or RGN you ask? Well heal block means every-time you use a special attack you can or will take damage every-time where you will die eventually.

Unless you wanna do the fight multiple times which makes getting the solo much easier, it's not fun to do. Odin, CGR, Tigra, Rogue, Squirrel Girl (on paper anyway) all are able to get the solo but I'd rather one and done.

I've until now NEVER used any items to beat anything in EOP including the week 5 with 4 fights. This was the only fight I can see where it's ALOT harder to solo and get all the points (TB not Paragon) than anything so far.

Saiyan

This only proves the point of everyone in here. Nothing of what you wrote sounds like fun and that's the point, to have fun playing a VIDEO GAME. I get it has Pain in the name but if I wanted pain I'd go do act 6 with R1 5 stars.

The main issue I have is the unavoidable damage due to having Heal Block strapped to the nodes. That's bad game design as a whole. ANy game that makes you take unavoidable damage with no sort of reward or way to either get past it or recover is not good game design.

You can use some Small tagged champs to bypass this cuz they can shrug the debuff off but there are 0 Metal + Hero champ who can get around the damage from Retaliate expect oh idk, Valkyrie maybe who isn't even released yet. Yeah CGR can kill him quick but even still, he can't actually avoid the damage. The fight is on a timer.

JoseOk

If you don’t think that something has changed between EoP Ikaris (challenging, but not difficult) and EoP Hercules (wanting to throw your phone) than you are sadly mistaken. There is a huge difference in the way the AI is passively playing and frankly it is bad for the game.