More loyalty should be added to season rewards

Doing the math on Loyalty rewards versus costs of war season, the replenishment rate compared to when they were available in Glory do not match. Not even close.

1 lvl 4 potion a day 20k X 30 days = 600k
1 invulnerability boost 10k X 10 times a season = 100k
1 power boost same as above = 100k

Rewards are tiered but for tier 7 it’s 27,300 for a win and 16,800 for a loss. Go 50/50 and it’s 22,050 average

22,050 X 12 wars a season = 264,400

Spend 800k+ get 264,400 and that’s a loss of 535,600 loyalty a season.

This is not sustainable like it was with glory. If you added say 500k in the overall season rewards that would even it out and make it more sustainable.

Agree? Ideas?

Comments

Eb0ny-O-M4w

We have more than enough already. More stuff should be available to purchase in store

xNig

Slight edit for OP’s post.

1 lvl 4 potion a day 20k X 30 days = 600k (optional)
1 invulnerability boost 10k X 10 times a season = 100k (optional)
1 power boost same as above = 100k (optional)

Rewards are tiered but for tier 7 it’s 27,300 for a win and 16,800 for a loss. Go 50/50 and it’s 22,050 average (guaranteed)

22,050 X 12 wars a season = 264,400 (guaranteed)

Spend, optionally, 800k+ get 264,400 guaranteed and that’s a potential loss of 535,600 loyalty or 265,400 gain a season.

Tbh, if you’re spending this much in tier 7, you might wanna relook into your tier.

Dark_Claw1

I get that some people like to diminish and/or insult people for no reason other than maybe an insecurity issue with themselves but the post wasn’t about finding people who like to step on people with unhelpful comments xNig.

It was about the replenishment costs of war items. When potions were in Glory you could replenish and have a stock of potions fairly easily. Meaning the rewards offset the cost of purchasing all those items. Since they moved the cost to loyalty store, the rewards no longer offset the cost as it did before. If people never used loyalty before the change than yes, they have an abundance of loyalty but for those who used their Loyalty before this change than it’s a challenge to stock up and keep a stash with the current cost/reward imbalance.

They could add more loyalty reward to the end of season reward bundle or they could reduce the cost of Potions by 50% maybe more.

Mackey

You're also forgetting off season wars ...

pseudosane

I get that some people like to diminish and/or insult people for no reason other than maybe an insecurity issue with themselves but the post wasn’t about finding people who like to step on people with unhelpful comments xNig.

It was about the replenishment costs of war items. When potions were in Glory you could replenish and have a stock of potions fairly easily. Meaning the rewards offset the cost of purchasing all those items. Since they moved the cost to loyalty store, the rewards no longer offset the cost as it did before. If people never used loyalty before the change than yes, they have an abundance of loyalty but for those who used their Loyalty before this change than it’s a challenge to stock up and keep a stash with the current cost/reward imbalance.

They could add more loyalty reward to the end of season reward bundle or they could reduce the cost of Potions by 50% maybe more.

Ignore XNig. Everything feels optional to him, so take his comments as optional.

loyalty supply is definitely low. It is a broken system currently afloat by the 1 mill loyalty kabam gave us as "compensation"

007Bishop

I get that some people like to diminish and/or insult people for no reason other than maybe an insecurity issue with themselves but the post wasn’t about finding people who like to step on people with unhelpful comments xNig.

It was about the replenishment costs of war items. When potions were in Glory you could replenish and have a stock of potions fairly easily. Meaning the rewards offset the cost of purchasing all those items. Since they moved the cost to loyalty store, the rewards no longer offset the cost as it did before. If people never used loyalty before the change than yes, they have an abundance of loyalty but for those who used their Loyalty before this change than it’s a challenge to stock up and keep a stash with the current cost/reward imbalance.

They could add more loyalty reward to the end of season reward bundle or they could reduce the cost of Potions by 50% maybe more.

xNig is the kind of dude you really don't wanna see/bump into but can't help it because y'all take the same classes.

Your concerns are legit and given how often the game bugs out, crashes mid-fight, lags, etc the cost of potions per season is a lot more than what it should be. Bugs and crashes affect everyone equally, regardless of their tier in war. I do tier4 wars have had to spend multiple potions just because my game tends to crash mid-fight. There most certainly needs to more be loyalty, at least until these issues persist (which they will for a while to come).

@Dark_Claw1 Ignore xNig

Wicket329

The loyalty economy is extremely out of wack right now. With even comparatively squishy r3 attackers clocking in at over 30k health unboosted, one rough fight means burning through something like 40,000 loyalty if you need to use that champion again.

I haven’t had to spend on boosts yet because I still have a huge backlog of those crystals, but once those get used up I’ll start to feel that burn too and I’m not looking forward to it

NearJr

While AW loyalty rewards are debatable, the daily 1,000 loyalty per day from hitting help needs an increase. its just silly.

Mauled

AW loyalty is fine if you’re consistently winning and doing it fairly easily. If you’re not, no matter the tier it’s not really up to snuff.

The help system is a farce too, 1k/day isn’t really touching the sides when I’m getting 75k/win.

AW season rewards should have a balloon payment of loyalty to reflect the effort and loyalty shown for sticking with your alliance for a month. They should also have gold but that’s a separate issue entirely.

xNig

👏🏻 personal attacks when you can’t point out anything wrong. How mature.

No one forced any of you to spend so much loyalty boosting and potting up.

If you want to be in a tier that necessitates spending that much, then it’s your choice. Don’t put the blame on Kabam. Seems to have a lot of that going on in the world right now.

I’m in tier 2/3 wars and happy being there. Not spending an arm and leg for pots or boosts. In fact, I just bought 2x Unstoppable Colossus just because I had 10m loyalty sitting around doing nothing. 🤷🏻‍♂️

xNig

I get that some people like to diminish and/or insult people for no reason other than maybe an insecurity issue with themselves but the post wasn’t about finding people who like to step on people with unhelpful comments xNig.

It was about the replenishment costs of war items. When potions were in Glory you could replenish and have a stock of potions fairly easily. Meaning the rewards offset the cost of purchasing all those items. Since they moved the cost to loyalty store, the rewards no longer offset the cost as it did before. If people never used loyalty before the change than yes, they have an abundance of loyalty but for those who used their Loyalty before this change than it’s a challenge to stock up and keep a stash with the current cost/reward imbalance.

They could add more loyalty reward to the end of season reward bundle or they could reduce the cost of Potions by 50% maybe more.
xNig is the kind of dude you really don't wanna see/bump into but can't help it because y'all take the same classes.

Your concerns are legit and given how often the game bugs out, crashes mid-fight, lags, etc the cost of potions per season is a lot more than what it should be. Bugs and crashes affect everyone equally, regardless of their tier in war. I do tier4 wars have had to spend multiple potions just because my game tends to crash mid-fight. There most certainly needs to more be loyalty, at least until these issues persist (which they will for a while to come).

@Dark_Claw1 Ignore xNig

Weird. Bugs and crashes happen but not frequently enough to need to spend “multiple potions” that empties out loyalty.

You sure it isn’t your device? Lol

xNig

I get that some people like to diminish and/or insult people for no reason other than maybe an insecurity issue with themselves but the post wasn’t about finding people who like to step on people with unhelpful comments xNig.

You might want to look at the fingers pointing back at you.

It was about the replenishment costs of war items. When potions were in Glory you could replenish and have a stock of potions fairly easily. Meaning the rewards offset the cost of purchasing all those items. Since they moved the cost to loyalty store, the rewards no longer offset the cost as it did before. If people never used loyalty before the change than yes, they have an abundance of loyalty but for those who used their Loyalty before this change than it’s a challenge to stock up and keep a stash with the current cost/reward imbalance.

Yes it’s about the replenishment costs of war items. Like I said, if someone is spending THAT much loyalty on war, you might wanna relook at the war tier/difficulty you are in. The map and/or opponents’ defenders might be too hard to handle and should be considering lowering the tier that person plays in.

End of the day, sustainability is what matters. If your input > output, you’re spending too much. Instead of pointing fingers at Kabam for having too little loyalty when they have just increased it, look at yourself and ask if you’re spending too much for war.

No amount of loyalty is going to help you if you end every fight with below 20% and have to pot to full for the next.

Wicket329

End of the day, sustainability is what matters. If your input > output, you’re spending too much. Instead of pointing fingers at Kabam for having too little loyalty when they have just increased it, look at yourself and ask if you’re spending too much for war.

No amount of loyalty is going to help you if you end every fight with below 20% and have to pot to full for the next.

This current potion system is still in its infancy, as is the loyalty economy around it. You mention that Kabam has just increased the amount of loyalty being paid out in war, but don't include in that statement that loyalty costs dramatically increased in that same moment. The question being asked here is whether those two changes were properly proportioned to each other. I think you are arguing that they are, whereas everybody else here is arguing that they are not. So let's take a look.

Loyalty store refreshes every day, so let's assume that the player is being smart and buying no more than 1 potion of any given level per day. Let's also assume they are purchasing the highest available tier of potion. So that's a cost of 20,000 loyalty for an individual potion, and 75,000 for a team. On average, we get three wars a week. For the most competitive players, at Tier 1, their weekly loyalty income will be somewhere between 81,000 and 162,000, depending on their record. At minimum, that player can purchase 4 individual potions per week, or 1 team potion, and at maximum they could purchase 7 individuals or 2 team potions. They cannot purchase 8 individual potions because the store does not refresh that many times in a given week, and the price increase from purchasing two before reset would prevent them from purchasing that second potion. I am not including any other loyalty costs in my calculations here, such as boosts or AQ tickets (especially since there are alternate methods of acquiring AQ tickets).

So at best that's a budget on average of 2-3 individual potions per war, if you win every war. Enough to heal up one low health, unboosted, champion one time, maybe. And that's with the maximum loyalty income possible (not including that treasure trove of loyalty you get from pressing help). Dropping out of Tier 1 to Tier 2 drops your loyalty income on a win by over 10,000. Drop into Challenger and that's another over 10,000. And if you aren't using items, you aren't in these tiers to get even this much loyalty.

It's just not sustainable. Whether you want to blame disconnections, dropped inputs, or just your own imperfect play, everybody is going to take hits at times and need to use items, and the fact that a whole war victory of loyalty might buy just one, maybe two potions that only heal for 9,500 is insane.

Dark_Claw1

Thanks for the responses guys! Hopefully Kabam reads this stuff but regardless it’s nice to know I’m not the only one who thinks this needs updating.

xNig - It must be exhausting to be on the outside of things. Looking in, eagerly wanting to participate and not understanding why you’re not taken seriously. If you take the time to understand what the conversation is about maybe you will have a little more success with communicating with people.

For example: if someone is complaining about gas prices, don’t respond with, you chose to buy a car, you could walk or ride a bike, if you need to go somewhere that’s to far to walk than that’s on you. I have so much gas I don’t know what to do with it though….think I’m just gonna burn a bunch of it since I have so much of it….

See how not helpful that is? Might as well not even be a part of the conversation right?

Anyway, enjoy the game everyone! Cheers!

xNig

Thanks for the responses guys! Hopefully Kabam reads this stuff but regardless it’s nice to know I’m not the only one who thinks this needs updating.

xNig - It must be exhausting to be on the outside of things. Looking in, eagerly wanting to participate and not understanding why you’re not taken seriously. If you take the time to understand what the conversation is about maybe you will have a little more success with communicating with people.

For example: if someone is complaining about gas prices, don’t respond with, you chose to buy a car, you could walk or ride a bike, if you need to go somewhere that’s to far to walk than that’s on you. I have so much gas I don’t know what to do with it though….think I’m just gonna burn a bunch of it since I have so much of it….

See how not helpful that is? Might as well not even be a part of the conversation right?

Anyway, enjoy the game everyone! Cheers!

Lol I’m not bothered by it.

Let me give you another example since you kindly gave one with regards to oil prices.

You earn an income and your boss recently gave you a raise, but inflation set in big time (like how it is currently), do you

A - manage and try to reduce your expenditure (like cooking at home instead of eating out) and see whether you need to lower your standard of living,

or

B - complain to your boss and tell him that things are so expensive now, then ask for a bigger raise?

It seems to me that a lot of people are choosing B.

Dark_Claw1

That doesn’t translate to the conversation that we were having either but it does translate to the conversation you were having lol. Shifting your original stance into another one that also isn’t helpful and doesn’t add anything to the conversation.

Gives another example of you being on the outside of a conversation looking in. Exhausting way to communicate and to go through life bud.

Wicket329

Y’all, there’s no reason for this to turn into personal attacks. We’re talking about whether there is sufficient loyalty in the game. I don’t want this thread shut down and the valuable parts of the discussion lost.

@xNig as far as your comparison goes, I don’t believe it’s an accurate assessment of the situation. Your analogy considers the reason you have more resources and the reason for the increased cost of things as two separate entities. But they’re not. In this case, it is the game devs, specifically the ones who focus on in game economy, who are deciding both payout rates and the cost of items.

There is no external force that the devs don’t have control over in this instance. Unlike units, gold, and battlechips, loyalty is a completely finite resource with limited means of acquisition in game. It is in no way farmable. You can’t sit down and grind out loyalty. And so it is the most sensitive part of the economy and bears discussion and careful consideration.

pseudosane

Y’all, there’s no reason for this to turn into personal attacks. We’re talking about whether there is sufficient loyalty in the game. I don’t want this thread shut down and the valuable parts of the discussion lost.

@xNig as far as your comparison goes, I don’t believe it’s an accurate assessment of the situation. Your analogy considers the reason you have more resources and the reason for the increased cost of things as two separate entities. But they’re not. In this case, it is the game devs, specifically the ones who focus on in game economy, who are deciding both payout rates and the cost of items.

There is no external force that the devs don’t have control over in this instance. Unlike units, gold, and battlechips, loyalty is a completely finite resource with limited means of acquisition in game. It is in no way farmable. You can’t sit down and grind out loyalty. And so it is the most sensitive part of the economy and bears discussion and careful consideration.

Therein lies the whole problem. @Wicket329 I ttoally agree with the analysis. Notice, you just counted healing, not the 3 minute boosts nor the class boosts. and the healing pot is only 9.5k which a drop in the bucket. One death can wipe out a weeks worth of potions in one shot.

xNig

That doesn’t translate to the conversation that we were having either but it does translate to the conversation you were having lol. Shifting your original stance into another one that also isn’t helpful and doesn’t add anything to the conversation.

Gives another example of you being on the outside of a conversation looking in. Exhausting way to communicate and to go through life bud.

Have not changed my stance. It has always been, and will always be, if input < output, find ways to reduce output and not complain about input being insufficient if that is beyond your control. Relates to gold, ISO, catalysts as well.

Complaining about having “not enough” is exhausting. Learning to play and live within what is given is called “adapting” and isn’t.

Wicket329

That doesn’t translate to the conversation that we were having either but it does translate to the conversation you were having lol. Shifting your original stance into another one that also isn’t helpful and doesn’t add anything to the conversation.

Gives another example of you being on the outside of a conversation looking in. Exhausting way to communicate and to go through life bud.
Have not changed my stance. It has always been, and will always be, if input < output, find ways to reduce output and not complain about input being insufficient if that is beyond your control. Relates to gold, ISO, catalysts as well.

Complaining about having “not enough” is exhausting. Learning to play and live within what is given is called “adapting” and isn’t.

In life, that is good advice. In this game, in this specific instance, where the game team has specifically said this is an area of the game that they are keeping an eye on and there is a potential for future tweaks, this is not good advice. This is something that is still very much subject to change, and so it is not only reasonable but beneficial to voice concerns at this time. If you don't hold those same concerns and you believe that there is enough loyalty available in game, that is also perfectly reasonable and helpful to say. Give the game team as many perspectives on the subject as possible.

You put a caveat in your statement by saying "if that is beyond your control." I would argue it is not beyond our control, as we have the potential to influence the decision makers via forum posts such as this one. In a situation such as this one where everything is still very much in flux, the conversation matters and should not be discouraged.

xNig

Y’all, there’s no reason for this to turn into personal attacks. We’re talking about whether there is sufficient loyalty in the game. I don’t want this thread shut down and the valuable parts of the discussion lost.

@xNig as far as your comparison goes, I don’t believe it’s an accurate assessment of the situation. Your analogy considers the reason you have more resources and the reason for the increased cost of things as two separate entities. But they’re not. In this case, it is the game devs, specifically the ones who focus on in game economy, who are deciding both payout rates and the cost of items.

There is no external force that the devs don’t have control over in this instance. Unlike units, gold, and battlechips, loyalty is a completely finite resource with limited means of acquisition in game. It is in no way farmable. You can’t sit down and grind out loyalty. And so it is the most sensitive part of the economy and bears discussion and careful consideration.

I agree with you bro @Wicket329.

What I’m saying is, people are spending way too much loyalty to be in a certain war tier. And they spend that much because
a. they pot up to close to max health each fight
b. they boost up each fight

both of which uses items that expend loyalty to minimize their chances of death. If they were to not do so, their deaths will likely increase, resulting in more AW losses, causing their AW tier to drop, and finally (probably) reducing their AW Season rank.

So if you look at it from another perspective, players are trading loyalty for AW rewards.

Hence, if people are asking for more loyalty to supplement the loyalty that they are trading for AW rewards, they are indirectly asking Kabam to fund their expenditure to make the trade more worthwhile (for them).

The alternative is to accept that, with the loyalty earned, one can only afford to spend 1-2 pots max per war, or at most, 24 pots for an entire season. With that in mind, players will know when they’re overspending and appropriately lower their war tiers (hence difficulty of AW) to match both sides of the equation.

The main issue with this is, most people’s egos can’t take the blow to accept the fact that their current AW tier and rank has been artificially inflated by items and boosts. 😂

xNig

That doesn’t translate to the conversation that we were having either but it does translate to the conversation you were having lol. Shifting your original stance into another one that also isn’t helpful and doesn’t add anything to the conversation.

Gives another example of you being on the outside of a conversation looking in. Exhausting way to communicate and to go through life bud.
Have not changed my stance. It has always been, and will always be, if input < output, find ways to reduce output and not complain about input being insufficient if that is beyond your control. Relates to gold, ISO, catalysts as well.

Complaining about having “not enough” is exhausting. Learning to play and live within what is given is called “adapting” and isn’t.
In life, that is good advice. In this game, in this specific instance, where the game team has specifically said this is an area of the game that they are keeping an eye on and there is a potential for future tweaks, this is not good advice. This is something that is still very much subject to change, and so it is not only reasonable but beneficial to voice concerns at this time. If you don't hold those same concerns and you believe that there is enough loyalty available in game, that is also perfectly reasonable and helpful to say. Give the game team as many perspectives on the subject as possible.

You put a caveat in your statement by saying "if that is beyond your control." I would argue it is not beyond our control, as we have the potential to influence the decision makers via forum posts such as this one. In a situation such as this one where everything is still very much in flux, the conversation matters and should not be discouraged.

Yup I agree with that too. OP asked for opinions on whether people agreed with him and I advised him that if he’s spending that much, he might want to relook into his tier (see above post for detailed explanation).

He followed it up with a personal attack because of what I said that the pots and boosts expenditure was optional, and that didn’t sit well with him as it’s an opinion that didn’t agree with his own. 🤷🏻‍♂️

pseudosane

Well youve made your point known so there is no need to keep harping on about it @xNig .Im not gonna as well. We have made our stances known.

Dark_Claw1

I apologize to everyone in the thread. It is frustrating that half the posts are filled with comments that aren’t on topic. I could have been more direct I guess and a little less backhanded. Hopefully it stops and thank you all for also trying.

Anyway, thinking more about the loyalty rewards. It should be designed in a way that if you are being thoughtful and strategic on how you are using it than it should be sustainable to keep a stash of lvl 4 potions readily available.

Compare it to the glory store. If you max buy all the T5B, T5C and T2A with the occasional other items than eventually you will run out of glory but if you buy strategically like maybe both T5C, 2 T5B and 2 T2A a week than you will always have glory and have the ability to buy things as needed.

1 lvl 4 potion a day shouldn’t make you loyalty poor. You should be able to easily do that and have plenty for other stuff as needed. Does this make sense?

xNig

I apologize to everyone in the thread. It is frustrating that half the posts are filled with comments that aren’t on topic. I could have been more direct I guess and a little less backhanded. Hopefully it stops and thank you all for also trying.

Anyway, thinking more about the loyalty rewards. It should be designed in a way that if you are being thoughtful and strategic on how you are using it than it should be sustainable to keep a stash of lvl 4 potions readily available.

Compare it to the glory store. If you max buy all the T5B, T5C and T2A with the occasional other items than eventually you will run out of glory but if you buy strategically like maybe both T5C, 2 T5B and 2 T2A a week than you will always have glory and have the ability to buy things as needed.

1 lvl 4 potion a day shouldn’t make you loyalty poor. You should be able to easily do that and have plenty for other stuff as needed. Does this make sense?

That’s fair, although I suspect that that will still be insufficient for a lot of people. Also, “strategically” is very subjective and differs from person to person.

One possible solution/amendment is to first, adjust potions to pot % health instead of absolute health. This way, players won’t have to keep bugging Kabam to increase the amount that a pot heals as the ranks and health of champs increase in future.

Following that, I believe a fair way to awarding loyalty is to provide a base amount + reward. The current base amount is 1k a day, which honestly, isn’t anything at all. If we were to follow the “buy one pot a day” guideline, the amount should be bumped up to 20k, ie 2k per help or whatever as long as it doesn’t cause us to need to keep pressing that help button.

The reward amount can vary with tier, on a per war basis. What I’d suggest is to look at the item usage of individual tiers, average it out to a per person level, then award 1x that amount for a win and 0.5x that amount for a loss.

Dark_Claw1

xNig - welcome to the conversation! That was your first post that had anything to do with the topic!

There should be a somewhat easy way to earn the bare minimum of loyalty purchases each week. If that bare minimum is 300k a week than they should probably have a simple way to earn 400k a week.

I don’t know what the exact bare minimum should be but I think that’s probably pretty close

Addyos

xNig - welcome to the conversation! That was your first post that had anything to do with the topic!

There should be a somewhat easy way to earn the bare minimum of loyalty purchases each week. If that bare minimum is 300k a week than they should probably have a simple way to earn 400k a week.

I don’t know what the exact bare minimum should be but I think that’s probably pretty close

And the claws came out again…

xNig

xNig - welcome to the conversation! That was your first post that had anything to do with the topic!

There should be a somewhat easy way to earn the bare minimum of loyalty purchases each week. If that bare minimum is 300k a week than they should probably have a simple way to earn 400k a week.

I don’t know what the exact bare minimum should be but I think that’s probably pretty close

You apologized so I’m cool with that. No hard feelings.

Anyway, I’d disagree with that overcompensating amount though.

You have to understand that, as mentioned above, players are effectively trading loyalty for rewards with the use of items to artificially boost their war ratings into higher tiers/ranked rewards, which tbh, isn’t healthy, as it becomes more and more obligatory for them to do so, which in turn will start to cause the situation to spiral out of control once again.

Like I mentioned above as well, even if pots are adjusted to % based at 40% per pop, in an extreme situation, having to end all fights at 20% requires 2 pots (~40k loyalty), for an average of 5 fights a war equates to 200k loyalty every 2 days, or 100k daily/700k weekly, which honestly, isn’t a reasonable amount to give out.

WhyMe1984

Definitely need more loyalty, whether it's from war rewards, alliance help, or another way. It should at least be obtainable easily... just my two cents

Dark_Claw1

If we are worried potions are artificially inflating war numbers to increase rewards than that would apply to everything in the game. With that logic they should just eliminate all potions and not allow them as options anywhere in the game. Imagine if there was no potions. Doubt Act 6 would exists. The game might not exist anymore.

They make gold sustainable and easy to manage
They make ISO sustainable and easy to manage
They make glory sustainable easy to manage
They make cats sustainable and easy to manage
They should make Loyalty sustainable and easy to manage as well