@Rookiie I for one would love to have a super solid DD in game (and not the one coming from the promised DD Disney series). A little love for the classic champs (even if it’s a Netflix version) would be great.
@Rookiie I for one would love to have a super solid DD in game (and not the one coming from the promised DD Disney series). A little love for the classic champs (even if it’s a Netflix version) would be great.
Dr. Zola
As somebody who really enjoyed the DD Netflix show, and somebody who met Charlie Cox, I would much prefer to have this version of DD hit the heights it could reach. I play this game for the characters I love, and the kits I love, so when something like this keeps going south, it’s a bummer. But hey, keep smiling eh? 🙂
Best run with KP (and above average RNG): 108 hits
We went from 63 hit runs and 79 hit runs to this …
My two thoughts Kabam: I wasn’t wrong when I mentioned above that DDHK should retain the Attack Bonus from Rage in Murdock Boy. The way you guys designed the mechanic in Murdock Boy, is that one of each non-Damaging debuff gets Purified. But even after that DDHK will retain 1 or 2 Rage in Murdock Boy that literally serve no purpose until you reach Stick’s Apprentice.
I ask you to check the following with your data team: 1) How much time does DDHK spend in Murdock Boy vs Stick’s Apprentice? 2) What is the damage comparison between the two modes?
Within this space alone you can find that you can fix DDHK. No new mechanics, no tuning of numbers. Just let the Rage provide the Attack bonus independently of the mode.
A visual example! We all love visual examples don’t we?
Look at the numbers in Murdock Boy without a Rage debuff:
Look at the numbers in Murdock Boy with a Rage debuff:
Voilá! Exactly the same.
This is why DDHK failed. It’s just bad design. Whenever we enter Murdock Boy from Stick’s Apprentice: poof! All the Attack Bonus from the Rage debuffs that don’t get purified are gone!
Kabam, some of us suffered with the regeneration rate, all of us are suffering with this Rage mechanic. Let it work like Kingpin. Just give him the bonus regardless of the mode!
Kabam may have reverted back to a baseline or main branch version while the fix is being worked on. That’s the most optimistic interpretation of him being the same as he was before, I think. It’s not perfect but if this is true it may at least prevent the damage output drop-off.
The Devs are, I’m sure, looking at new mechanics all the time. DDHK’s buff was clearly an experiment in a number of areas - combo count management, alternate modes depending on combo and of course self-inflicted Debuffs by design. Whether that works or doesn’t, that’s a matter of perspective. What is clear is that the next character to use some of those concepts (Kingpin) is now one of the best champs in the game, while DDHK is sometimes useful.
I said elsewhere that perhaps that whole chunk of Stick’s Apprentice may as well be ripped out. The Rage Debuff is the cause of so much complication in the kit. It’s the reason given for the Base Regen drop, one of the main issues many players have with the kit. I once tried a fan-write up of ripping Rage out from DDHK’s kit entirely, with the SP1 refreshing the SP2 Fury Buffs - and I don’t think the kit was the worse for it.
TLDR - Let’s just hope the investigations are still in progress.
he wasn't over powered. he was actually the "devil" you'd expect so why bother "fixing" it when it was all too right. either way he's still one of my favorites. but yeah this one didn't hurt any content to have DDHK this way.
@Kabam Miike / @Kabam Jax could you please do something to restore the community excitement on this thread? There’s a buff gap in October - maybe that could be explored?
@Kabam Miike / @Kabam John Can we get damage, usage and regen data for DDHK in the following style (your style)?
I feel we have a right to know the reasoning behind certain decisions and if there is capacity to make any changes (based on the data), so could we set up an AMA too (they way you did for Guillotine)?
I concur. DDHK has suffered a long time. Kabam, please put some FUN in his kit.
Putting Kingpin's rage mechanic in would achieve that, with minimal programming. DDHK would only purify in Murdock Boy, so you would still need to do the combo mechanic to get the benefit.
Alternatively, Kabam, if you want to take the easy route, you can stop lying to the people and modify the spotlight accordingly:
DDHK doesn’t deal massive Critical damage. Speaking of which, you can lower the attribute to 1.5 or 2. The current rating suggests that he’s an average damage dealer, where in fact he is one of the lowest damage dealing champions in the game. Try a fight, without any synergies, against WS. Will take you around 140 hits to finish. That’s really low for a 6-star Rank 3.
Next up: his Ease of Use should be a 2, what on earth possessed you guys to rate it at 3.5? Your average player doesn’t know how to manage his combo meter to trigger his abilities, mainly because the damage isn’t worth it anyway.
For some reason you guys have Survivability at 3.5 but the joke is on you, one damaging debuff and he’s gone thanks to the genius who decided that he should only purify non-damaging debuffs and reduced the regeneration rate on top of it.
TL;DR
Your attributes for this champ are inflated, and you’re flat out lying to the community. You want to keep his regen low? Up his damage. You don’t want to up his damage? Up his regen. But you can’t drop the ball on both.
The attributes are all opinion based and all pretty dumb so they cant really be wrong. Look at Hercules' utility for an example.
++ attributes should always be based on data (not opinion), so if Kabam couldn’t get that right then their data science team are .. well, not useful. But hey, you said it not me 🤷🏻♂️
The attributes are all opinion based and all pretty dumb so they cant really be wrong. Look at Hercules' utility for an example.
Also, I dont see why youre trying to give them an ultimatum as if they have to do either or. They really dont lol.
Mate. I also have DDHK at 6* r3, so I say this as a fellow lover of the champ: this is excessive.
He’s a decent champ who becomes pretty solid and fun to play with one or two synergies. Would it be cool if he were better? Sure. But this is not some crusade or righteous cause. It’s trying to get one of more than two hundred characters in a mobile fighting game buffed. If Kabam decides to do something else with the character, it won’t be because of your fervor. I say this with experience as I was very aggro about the Guillotine rework. It’s time to let this go.
The attributes are all opinion based and all pretty dumb so they cant really be wrong. Look at Hercules' utility for an example.
Also, I dont see why youre trying to give them an ultimatum as if they have to do either or. They really dont lol.
Mate. I also have DDHK at 6* r3, so I say this as a fellow lover of the champ: this is excessive.
He’s a decent champ who becomes pretty solid and fun to play with one or two synergies. Would it be cool if he were better? Sure. But this is not some crusade or righteous cause. It’s trying to get one of more than two hundred characters in a mobile fighting game buffed. If Kabam decides to do something else with the character, it won’t be because of your fervor. I say this with experience as I was very aggro about the Guillotine rework. It’s time to let this go.
Fair play and I appreciate the good words. But I am not counting on my fervor alone, the bug undeniably sparked excitement within the community. The same community that used their voice and changed Odin and iHulk for the better. And DDHK is one of a handful of *almost* buffs. So what I’m really doing is questioning Kabam John’s design principle which is: to leave you feel excited and not disappointed. And we know the general consensus here. But I will take him to R4, and I will continue to play him, I just want the best for him. 🙂
The difference is Odin and iHulk were terrible. DDHK is good enough for Kabam.
what was wrong with iHulk originally?
Too difficult to keep up his Rage mechanic. I have a big thread on this ++ BG and a bunch of CCP members shed light on the topic.
Three issues were raised: 1) Too difficult to keep up his Rage mechanic. They ended up pausing it during specials and I believe they increased the duration by 0.5 seconds. 2) Immortality cooldown is too long, nothing was done about this. 3) Not enough utility to support him during Immortality cooldown - there were some members here advocating for utility on the 4th light attack.
It’s hard when you invest so much effort, time and in many cases money into something which ultimately proves unsatisfactory. It is fair to say it was a flawed buff from many players’ perspective but isn’t the only one and won’t be the last.
There have been many attempts, like the one six months ago, where we tried to present our case in a positive and non-antagonistic light. We requested small, minor changes to DDHK to address the widely acknowledged negatives of the kit. It didn’t work and we were shut down. Whether it was resourcing, data, pride, business priorities, commercials, corporate direction or any combination thereof, the answer was no.
There are issues with the kit. We all know that. If he was a priority for Kabam on any level that would change. About the only chance I can see for this situation to shift is with Daredevil becoming what appears to be a staple in the MCU. But that may be facilitated with a new champion joining the game instead.
We should get a fix for the Stick’s Apprentice issue - it’s clearly broken. But for anything else, even a tiny increase to Base Regen Rate, it’s not down to us - even if the need is as clear as day.
There are issues with the kit. We all know that. If he was a priority for Kabam on any level that would change. About the only chance I can see for this situation to shift is with Daredevil becoming what appears to be a staple in the MCU. But that may be facilitated with a new champion joining the game instead.
Dude. I was thinking the exact same thing today. Unreal.
I just don't get what the big issue was even for these "miscalculations". it's a game. there were champs that hit WAY harder still in the game. so what exactly did the harm come from to make this champ more on the line of where he should be really.
i love him still but the changes were pretty awesome. they weren't game breaking and they didn't make him some OP champ .. just made him better.
they should have just left it and took one for the team instead of some fail safe "oh not intended" thing. they just can't get out of their own way sometimes.
Comments
Dr. Zola
I play this game for the characters I love, and the kits I love, so when something like this keeps going south, it’s a bummer.
But hey, keep smiling eh? 🙂
Best run with KP (and above average RNG): 108 hits
We went from 63 hit runs and 79 hit runs to this …
My two thoughts Kabam: I wasn’t wrong when I mentioned above that DDHK should retain the Attack Bonus from Rage in Murdock Boy. The way you guys designed the mechanic in Murdock Boy, is that one of each non-Damaging debuff gets Purified. But even after that DDHK will retain 1 or 2 Rage in Murdock Boy that literally serve no purpose until you reach Stick’s Apprentice.
I ask you to check the following with your data team:
1) How much time does DDHK spend in Murdock Boy vs Stick’s Apprentice?
2) What is the damage comparison between the two modes?
Within this space alone you can find that you can fix DDHK. No new mechanics, no tuning of numbers. Just let the Rage provide the Attack bonus independently of the mode.
Look at the numbers in Murdock Boy without a Rage debuff:
Look at the numbers in Murdock Boy with a Rage debuff:
Voilá! Exactly the same.
This is why DDHK failed. It’s just bad design. Whenever we enter Murdock Boy from Stick’s Apprentice: poof! All the Attack Bonus from the Rage debuffs that don’t get purified are gone!
Kabam, some of us suffered with the regeneration rate, all of us are suffering with this Rage mechanic.
Let it work like Kingpin. Just give him the bonus regardless of the mode!
The Devs are, I’m sure, looking at new mechanics all the time. DDHK’s buff was clearly an experiment in a number of areas - combo count management, alternate modes depending on combo and of course self-inflicted Debuffs by design. Whether that works or doesn’t, that’s a matter of perspective. What is clear is that the next character to use some of those concepts (Kingpin) is now one of the best champs in the game, while DDHK is sometimes useful.
I said elsewhere that perhaps that whole chunk of Stick’s Apprentice may as well be ripped out. The Rage Debuff is the cause of so much complication in the kit. It’s the reason given for the Base Regen drop, one of the main issues many players have with the kit. I once tried a fan-write up of ripping Rage out from DDHK’s kit entirely, with the SP1 refreshing the SP2 Fury Buffs - and I don’t think the kit was the worse for it.
TLDR - Let’s just hope the investigations are still in progress.
There’s a buff gap in October - maybe that could be explored?
Can we get damage, usage and regen data for DDHK in the following style (your style)?
I feel we have a right to know the reasoning behind certain decisions and if there is capacity to make any changes (based on the data), so could we set up an AMA too (they way you did for Guillotine)?
Thanks!
DDHK has suffered a long time.
Kabam, please put some FUN in his kit.
Putting Kingpin's rage mechanic in would achieve that, with minimal programming. DDHK would only purify in Murdock Boy, so you would still need to do the combo mechanic to get the benefit.
DDHK doesn’t deal massive Critical damage. Speaking of which, you can lower the attribute to 1.5 or 2. The current rating suggests that he’s an average damage dealer, where in fact he is one of the lowest damage dealing champions in the game. Try a fight, without any synergies, against WS. Will take you around 140 hits to finish. That’s really low for a 6-star Rank 3.
Next up: his Ease of Use should be a 2, what on earth possessed you guys to rate it at 3.5? Your average player doesn’t know how to manage his combo meter to trigger his abilities, mainly because the damage isn’t worth it anyway.
For some reason you guys have Survivability at 3.5 but the joke is on you, one damaging debuff and he’s gone thanks to the genius who decided that he should only purify non-damaging debuffs and reduced the regeneration rate on top of it.
TL;DR
Your attributes for this champ are inflated, and you’re flat out lying to the community. You want to keep his regen low? Up his damage. You don’t want to up his damage? Up his regen. But you can’t drop the ball on both.
You rated DDHK’s Survivability as 3.5
iBom’s Survivability is 4
And they are worlds apart in Survivability
You rated DDHK’s Damage as 2.5
Doom’s Damage is 3
And they are worlds apart in Damage
You rated DDHK’s Ease of Use as 3.5
Kingpin’s Ease of Use is 3.5
And they are worlds apart in Ease of Use
So either update the spotlight or the champion, but as things stand the attributes of DDHK are misleading.
Also, I dont see why youre trying to give them an ultimatum as if they have to do either or. They really dont lol.
But hey, you said it not me 🤷🏻♂️
He’s a decent champ who becomes pretty solid and fun to play with one or two synergies. Would it be cool if he were better? Sure. But this is not some crusade or righteous cause. It’s trying to get one of more than two hundred characters in a mobile fighting game buffed. If Kabam decides to do something else with the character, it won’t be because of your fervor. I say this with experience as I was very aggro about the Guillotine rework. It’s time to let this go.
But I am not counting on my fervor alone, the bug undeniably sparked excitement within the community. The same community that used their voice and changed Odin and iHulk for the better.
And DDHK is one of a handful of *almost* buffs. So what I’m really doing is questioning Kabam John’s design principle which is: to leave you feel excited and not disappointed. And we know the general consensus here.
But I will take him to R4, and I will continue to play him, I just want the best for him. 🙂
I have a big thread on this ++ BG and a bunch of CCP members shed light on the topic.
Three issues were raised:
1) Too difficult to keep up his Rage mechanic. They ended up pausing it during specials and I believe they increased the duration by 0.5 seconds.
2) Immortality cooldown is too long, nothing was done about this.
3) Not enough utility to support him during Immortality cooldown - there were some members here advocating for utility on the 4th light attack.
There have been many attempts, like the one six months ago, where we tried to present our case in a positive and non-antagonistic light. We requested small, minor changes to DDHK to address the widely acknowledged negatives of the kit. It didn’t work and we were shut down. Whether it was resourcing, data, pride, business priorities, commercials, corporate direction or any combination thereof, the answer was no.
There are issues with the kit. We all know that. If he was a priority for Kabam on any level that would change. About the only chance I can see for this situation to shift is with Daredevil becoming what appears to be a staple in the MCU. But that may be facilitated with a new champion joining the game instead.
We should get a fix for the Stick’s Apprentice issue - it’s clearly broken. But for anything else, even a tiny increase to Base Regen Rate, it’s not down to us - even if the need is as clear as day.
Unreal.
i love him still but the changes were pretty awesome. they weren't game breaking and they didn't make him some OP champ .. just made him better.
they should have just left it and took one for the team instead of some fail safe "oh not intended" thing. they just can't get out of their own way sometimes.