Tranquility vs Power Drain immunity, which should win??

WhyMe1984

So I had noticed this during AQ and now in EOP Modoc; that when using hulkling, and I've heard King groot, who is immune to power drain and burn, that they still get drained when the timer expires... can we get clarification from kabam about this. How is it an immunity when it doesn't work? When a champ is immune to bleed, poison, shock, aar, or shuts down certain things due to its kit like Angela, nodes are included... so what's up? I'd like to know.

TyEdge

Yeah I always get matador and power struggle mixed up but one of those fits here too

ItsDamien

Tranquility itself isn’t a power drain. It’s a reset. While yes the pop up on screen during a fight might say power drain (honestly I don’t pay attention to it), it’s not functioning as a drain. They could rename it to “Power Reset” if they wanted to be absolutely accurate.

DNA3000

ItsDamien said:

Tranquility itself isn’t a power drain. It’s a reset. While yes the pop up on screen during a fight might say power drain (honestly I don’t pay attention to it), it’s not functioning as a drain. They could rename it to “Power Reset” if they wanted to be absolutely accurate.

I believe his is correct. I'm pretty sure tranquility is not specifically a power drain effect.

Being immune to power drain does not mean being immune to all possible mechanisms for lowering power. If that was the case, then when King Groot used special attacks his power wouldn't drop. Being immune to power drain effects doesn't mean he's immune to special attacks actually using his power. His power can go down, he is just specifically immune to power drain and power burn effects by name.

Worknprogress

DNA3000 said:

ItsDamien said:

Tranquility itself isn’t a power drain. It’s a reset. While yes the pop up on screen during a fight might say power drain (honestly I don’t pay attention to it), it’s not functioning as a drain. They could rename it to “Power Reset” if they wanted to be absolutely accurate.

I believe his is correct. I'm pretty sure tranquility is not specifically a power drain effect.

Being immune to power drain does not mean being immune to all possible mechanisms for lowering power. If that was the case, then when King Groot used special attacks his power wouldn't drop. Being immune to power drain effects doesn't mean he's immune to special attacks actually using his power. His power can go down, he is just specifically immune to power drain and power burn effects by name.

The callout on the screen says "power drain"

Worknprogress

DNA3000

Worknprogress said:

DNA3000 said:

ItsDamien said:

Tranquility itself isn’t a power drain. It’s a reset. While yes the pop up on screen during a fight might say power drain (honestly I don’t pay attention to it), it’s not functioning as a drain. They could rename it to “Power Reset” if they wanted to be absolutely accurate.

I believe his is correct. I'm pretty sure tranquility is not specifically a power drain effect.

Being immune to power drain does not mean being immune to all possible mechanisms for lowering power. If that was the case, then when King Groot used special attacks his power wouldn't drop. Being immune to power drain effects doesn't mean he's immune to special attacks actually using his power. His power can go down, he is just specifically immune to power drain and power burn effects by name.

The callout on the screen says "power drain"

Then the call out is probably in error. Visual call outs are not something automatically generated by the power system, a human has to make that, and there are lots of situations where the game will describe something with language that unfortunately also collides with the proper name of an effect. "Nullify" for example is hyper-overloaded with technical meaning under the hood of the game engine.

It is entirely possible, for example, that in some localization languages the call out for tranquility does not match the name of the effect referred to as power drain in English, because of translation glitches. Ironically, if that''s the case they would be more accurate.

An interesting one that came up recently and I put in a suggestion for with the QA team is the stun from Parry. As pointed out by some players, this stun has no call out at all. And that's probably because Parry predates the time when anyone cared about call out consistency. Tranquility might be another one of those I'll go bug someone about.

ItsDamien

Worknprogress said:

DNA3000 said:

ItsDamien said:

Tranquility itself isn’t a power drain. It’s a reset. While yes the pop up on screen during a fight might say power drain (honestly I don’t pay attention to it), it’s not functioning as a drain. They could rename it to “Power Reset” if they wanted to be absolutely accurate.

I believe his is correct. I'm pretty sure tranquility is not specifically a power drain effect.

Being immune to power drain does not mean being immune to all possible mechanisms for lowering power. If that was the case, then when King Groot used special attacks his power wouldn't drop. Being immune to power drain effects doesn't mean he's immune to special attacks actually using his power. His power can go down, he is just specifically immune to power drain and power burn effects by name.

The callout on the screen says "power drain"

As I said on my post, even if it’s called out as power drain, tranquility doesn’t act as a power drain. It doesn’t even have the word “drain” on the node description. They could add “power drain” as a call out every time a champion threw a special, it still wouldn’t be a power drain.

WhyMe1984

That's where I got confused at, I will admit it. The call out said power drain so I was like, "oh no no no you didnt" loll... but I get what everyone is saying about it not being described as power drain... but that's what it does imo... so hopefully someone from kabam can clarify... it would be nice to have a champ that's "completely" immune to Tranquillity's power drain

BitterSteel

DNA3000 said:

Worknprogress said:

DNA3000 said:

ItsDamien said:

Tranquility itself isn’t a power drain. It’s a reset. While yes the pop up on screen during a fight might say power drain (honestly I don’t pay attention to it), it’s not functioning as a drain. They could rename it to “Power Reset” if they wanted to be absolutely accurate.

I believe his is correct. I'm pretty sure tranquility is not specifically a power drain effect.

Being immune to power drain does not mean being immune to all possible mechanisms for lowering power. If that was the case, then when King Groot used special attacks his power wouldn't drop. Being immune to power drain effects doesn't mean he's immune to special attacks actually using his power. His power can go down, he is just specifically immune to power drain and power burn effects by name.

The callout on the screen says "power drain"

Then the call out is probably in error. Visual call outs are not something automatically generated by the power system, a human has to make that, and there are lots of situations where the game will describe something with language that unfortunately also collides with the proper name of an effect. "Nullify" for example is hyper-overloaded with technical meaning under the hood of the game engine.

It is entirely possible, for example, that in some localization languages the call out for tranquility does not match the name of the effect referred to as power drain in English, because of translation glitches. Ironically, if that''s the case they would be more accurate.

An interesting one that came up recently and I put in a suggestion for with the QA team is the stun from Parry. As pointed out by some players, this stun has no call out at all. And that's probably because Parry predates the time when anyone cared about call out consistency. Tranquility might be another one of those I'll go bug someone about.

Yeah it’s the same way that Bane and similar nodes are still labelled degeneration on the call outs but aren’t actually degen in game. So Spider Ham, Negative, Knull etc don’t interact with them.

There are a few situations where there isn’t consistency with call outs, it would be something I’d like to see addressed to avoid confusion.

AverageDesi

DNA3000 said:

Worknprogress said:

DNA3000 said:

ItsDamien said:

Tranquility itself isn’t a power drain. It’s a reset. While yes the pop up on screen during a fight might say power drain (honestly I don’t pay attention to it), it’s not functioning as a drain. They could rename it to “Power Reset” if they wanted to be absolutely accurate.

I believe his is correct. I'm pretty sure tranquility is not specifically a power drain effect.

Being immune to power drain does not mean being immune to all possible mechanisms for lowering power. If that was the case, then when King Groot used special attacks his power wouldn't drop. Being immune to power drain effects doesn't mean he's immune to special attacks actually using his power. His power can go down, he is just specifically immune to power drain and power burn effects by name.

The callout on the screen says "power drain"

Then the call out is probably in error. Visual call outs are not something automatically generated by the power system, a human has to make that, and there are lots of situations where the game will describe something with language that unfortunately also collides with the proper name of an effect. "Nullify" for example is hyper-overloaded with technical meaning under the hood of the game engine.

It is entirely possible, for example, that in some localization languages the call out for tranquility does not match the name of the effect referred to as power drain in English, because of translation glitches. Ironically, if that''s the case they would be more accurate.

An interesting one that came up recently and I put in a suggestion for with the QA team is the stun from Parry. As pointed out by some players, this stun has no call out at all. And that's probably because Parry predates the time when anyone cared about call out consistency. Tranquility might be another one of those I'll go bug someone about.

So did someone actually decide to make the callout of "immune" popup when certain champs shrug debuffs (like nick , ghost and kingpin) or is it like , removing debuffs through immunity is the same thing that happens when champions shrug so it just carried over to those champs who shrug but aren't "actually" immune?

Worknprogress

ItsDamien said:

Worknprogress said:

DNA3000 said:

ItsDamien said:

Tranquility itself isn’t a power drain. It’s a reset. While yes the pop up on screen during a fight might say power drain (honestly I don’t pay attention to it), it’s not functioning as a drain. They could rename it to “Power Reset” if they wanted to be absolutely accurate.

I believe his is correct. I'm pretty sure tranquility is not specifically a power drain effect.

Being immune to power drain does not mean being immune to all possible mechanisms for lowering power. If that was the case, then when King Groot used special attacks his power wouldn't drop. Being immune to power drain effects doesn't mean he's immune to special attacks actually using his power. His power can go down, he is just specifically immune to power drain and power burn effects by name.

The callout on the screen says "power drain"

As I said on my post, even if it’s called out as power drain, tranquility doesn’t act as a power drain. It doesn’t even have the word “drain” on the node description. They could add “power drain” as a call out every time a champion threw a special, it still wouldn’t be a power drain.

I didn't say anyone was wrong about that. Merely pointed out that it's completely reasonable for someone to assume it's a power drain when the game itself says its a power drain every time it happens.

If devs and other players don't want people confused about these things, maybe they should fix some of these conflicts instead of just expecting people to assume the game is lying.

pseudosane

the interesting interaction with hulkling is that when tranqulity removes all buffs when he is unblockable, it turns to passive for him. So it is coded similar to a nullify too

BitterSteel

pseudosane said:

the interesting interaction with hulkling is that when tranqulity removes all buffs when he is unblockable, it turns to passive for him. So it is coded similar to a nullify too

It’s odd though, because Tranquillity isn’t treated like a nullify for OS or other nullify immune champs.

Hulkling just treats it like a nullify there when his buff is removed.

DNA3000

AverageDesi said:

DNA3000 said:

Worknprogress said:

DNA3000 said:

ItsDamien said:

Tranquility itself isn’t a power drain. It’s a reset. While yes the pop up on screen during a fight might say power drain (honestly I don’t pay attention to it), it’s not functioning as a drain. They could rename it to “Power Reset” if they wanted to be absolutely accurate.

I believe his is correct. I'm pretty sure tranquility is not specifically a power drain effect.

Being immune to power drain does not mean being immune to all possible mechanisms for lowering power. If that was the case, then when King Groot used special attacks his power wouldn't drop. Being immune to power drain effects doesn't mean he's immune to special attacks actually using his power. His power can go down, he is just specifically immune to power drain and power burn effects by name.

The callout on the screen says "power drain"

Then the call out is probably in error. Visual call outs are not something automatically generated by the power system, a human has to make that, and there are lots of situations where the game will describe something with language that unfortunately also collides with the proper name of an effect. "Nullify" for example is hyper-overloaded with technical meaning under the hood of the game engine.

It is entirely possible, for example, that in some localization languages the call out for tranquility does not match the name of the effect referred to as power drain in English, because of translation glitches. Ironically, if that''s the case they would be more accurate.

An interesting one that came up recently and I put in a suggestion for with the QA team is the stun from Parry. As pointed out by some players, this stun has no call out at all. And that's probably because Parry predates the time when anyone cared about call out consistency. Tranquility might be another one of those I'll go bug someone about.

So did someone actually decide to make the callout of "immune" popup when certain champs shrug debuffs (like nick , ghost and kingpin) or is it like , removing debuffs through immunity is the same thing that happens when champions shrug so it just carried over to those champs who shrug but aren't "actually" immune?

I believe it is the former and not the latter.

Although the question of what "actually happens" in the game engine is always a very complicated one, such that knowing the literal answer can be extremely misleading if you don't have sufficient context. For example, there's an incredibly convoluted story surrounding what is "purify." Even I don't know all the technical details, I just happen to be aware of the fact that there even is an incredibly complex technical story there. Short version: deep in the game engine there is a thing called Purify. It almost certainly doesn't exactly do what you think it does.

Programmers writing game engines rarely know exactly what will be built upon them, and programmers in general have a very loose relationship with human languages. That's why we are all stuck with explaining to players that "ability accuracy" has nothing to do with accuracy, while the rest of the known universe just calls this "proc chance" or "chance to trigger."

Thank god they didn't choose to call it "critical accuracy." I would hate to have to strangle a Canadian.