Mastery setups

Jgtheg

So why is the ability to save different mastery setups just coming to battlegrounds. Is this a beta test to see if it works before releasing it game wide? @Kabam Miike

DNA3000

Jgtheg said:

So why is the ability to save different mastery setups just coming to battlegrounds. Is this a beta test to see if it works before releasing it game wide? @Kabam Miike

People thinking this is a "beta test" probably have the wrong idea. Although the core technology could be used elsewhere, it does take significant development work to make this work in every game mode they ultimately decide to implement this for. So it has to launch somewhere: it would require a lot of work to launch it everywhere (assuming they even want to use it everywhere) and such work would go beyond the development resources allocated to Battlegrounds.

So while they probably do want to see how it works before considering using it anywhere else, I wouldn't call this a beta test. More that something had to be first, and there's no good reason to do it anywhere else until they see how it all goes in Battlegrounds.

Jgtheg

@DNA3000 i get your point. I just hate having to switch back and forth everytime. They could at least throw us a bone and make it not cost to switch

Colinwhitworth69

DNA3000 said:

Jgtheg said:

So why is the ability to save different mastery setups just coming to battlegrounds. Is this a beta test to see if it works before releasing it game wide? @Kabam Miike

People thinking this is a "beta test" probably have the wrong idea. Although the core technology could be used elsewhere, it does take significant development work to make this work in every game mode they ultimately decide to implement this for. So it has to launch somewhere: it would require a lot of work to launch it everywhere (assuming they even want to use it everywhere) and such work would go beyond the development resources allocated to Battlegrounds.

So while they probably do want to see how it works before considering using it anywhere else, I wouldn't call this a beta test. More that something had to be first, and there's no good reason to do it anywhere else until they see how it all goes in Battlegrounds.

Does the BG mastery selection also change your setup game-wide?

Total_Domin01

Colinwhitworth69 said:

DNA3000 said:

Jgtheg said:

So why is the ability to save different mastery setups just coming to battlegrounds. Is this a beta test to see if it works before releasing it game wide? @Kabam Miike

People thinking this is a "beta test" probably have the wrong idea. Although the core technology could be used elsewhere, it does take significant development work to make this work in every game mode they ultimately decide to implement this for. So it has to launch somewhere: it would require a lot of work to launch it everywhere (assuming they even want to use it everywhere) and such work would go beyond the development resources allocated to Battlegrounds.

So while they probably do want to see how it works before considering using it anywhere else, I wouldn't call this a beta test. More that something had to be first, and there's no good reason to do it anywhere else until they see how it all goes in Battlegrounds.

Does the BG mastery selection also change your setup game-wide?

Pretty sure it does not, if it did, people would widely take advantage of that when it would still cost units do it otherwise

Shiroihara

DNA3000 said:

Jgtheg said:

So why is the ability to save different mastery setups just coming to battlegrounds. Is this a beta test to see if it works before releasing it game wide? @Kabam Miike

People thinking this is a "beta test" probably have the wrong idea. Although the core technology could be used elsewhere, it does take significant development work to make this work in every game mode they ultimately decide to implement this for. So it has to launch somewhere: it would require a lot of work to launch it everywhere (assuming they even want to use it everywhere) and such work would go beyond the development resources allocated to Battlegrounds.

So while they probably do want to see how it works before considering using it anywhere else, I wouldn't call this a beta test. More that something had to be first, and there's no good reason to do it anywhere else until they see how it all goes in Battlegrounds.

Genuine question: you know these things or just guessing?

Rohit_316

Shiroihara said:

DNA3000 said:

Jgtheg said:

So why is the ability to save different mastery setups just coming to battlegrounds. Is this a beta test to see if it works before releasing it game wide? @Kabam Miike

People thinking this is a "beta test" probably have the wrong idea. Although the core technology could be used elsewhere, it does take significant development work to make this work in every game mode they ultimately decide to implement this for. So it has to launch somewhere: it would require a lot of work to launch it everywhere (assuming they even want to use it everywhere) and such work would go beyond the development resources allocated to Battlegrounds.

So while they probably do want to see how it works before considering using it anywhere else, I wouldn't call this a beta test. More that something had to be first, and there's no good reason to do it anywhere else until they see how it all goes in Battlegrounds.

Genuine question: you know these things or just guessing?

DNA'S reply

Colinwhitworth69

Total_Domin01 said:

Colinwhitworth69 said:

DNA3000 said:

Jgtheg said:

So why is the ability to save different mastery setups just coming to battlegrounds. Is this a beta test to see if it works before releasing it game wide? @Kabam Miike

People thinking this is a "beta test" probably have the wrong idea. Although the core technology could be used elsewhere, it does take significant development work to make this work in every game mode they ultimately decide to implement this for. So it has to launch somewhere: it would require a lot of work to launch it everywhere (assuming they even want to use it everywhere) and such work would go beyond the development resources allocated to Battlegrounds.

So while they probably do want to see how it works before considering using it anywhere else, I wouldn't call this a beta test. More that something had to be first, and there's no good reason to do it anywhere else until they see how it all goes in Battlegrounds.

Does the BG mastery selection also change your setup game-wide?

Pretty sure it does not, if it did, people would widely take advantage of that when it would still cost units do it otherwise

Well it was not clear in the announcement, and I would think it would be bug-friendly have masteries change when you leave BG after possibly have changed them multiple times in BG, but we’ll see….

Unknown

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Kerem

7714dtl said:

Jgtheg said:

So why is the ability to save different mastery setups just coming to battlegrounds. Is this a beta test to see if it works before releasing it game wide? @Kabam Miike

They dont want it game wide so they can keep costing players units whenever you want to change your masteries. The avility to have multiple mastery setups is long overdo

That’s a business at the same time too. So it should cost some to players and no need to complain about it as long as it’s fair and reasonable tho

Unknown

This content has been removed.

DNA3000

Total_Domin01 said:

Colinwhitworth69 said:

DNA3000 said:

Jgtheg said:

So why is the ability to save different mastery setups just coming to battlegrounds. Is this a beta test to see if it works before releasing it game wide? @Kabam Miike

People thinking this is a "beta test" probably have the wrong idea. Although the core technology could be used elsewhere, it does take significant development work to make this work in every game mode they ultimately decide to implement this for. So it has to launch somewhere: it would require a lot of work to launch it everywhere (assuming they even want to use it everywhere) and such work would go beyond the development resources allocated to Battlegrounds.

So while they probably do want to see how it works before considering using it anywhere else, I wouldn't call this a beta test. More that something had to be first, and there's no good reason to do it anywhere else until they see how it all goes in Battlegrounds.

Does the BG mastery selection also change your setup game-wide?

Pretty sure it does not, if it did, people would widely take advantage of that when it would still cost units do it otherwise

It would also make the system borderline pointless. The video preview strongly implies you will have to actually set your global mastery to what you want your deck to use, and then “apply” your mastery set up to that deck, but once applied that deck would remember that setup even if you changed your mastery setup. If the decks changed your entire mastery set up globally when you used them, that would in effect make battlegrounds into a free instantaneous mastery switcher, which is a lot of extra work to just do that.

DNA3000

Kerem said:

7714dtl said:

Jgtheg said:

So why is the ability to save different mastery setups just coming to battlegrounds. Is this a beta test to see if it works before releasing it game wide? @Kabam Miike

They dont want it game wide so they can keep costing players units whenever you want to change your masteries. The avility to have multiple mastery setups is long overdo

That’s a business at the same time too. So it should cost some to players and no need to complain about it as long as it’s fair and reasonable tho

Revenue has never been an important factor in mastery setup costs. If it was, they wouldn’t have dramatically reduced those costs in the past. Rather, the reason is one that is very common to all game designers, but seems to be something that most players have trouble accepting. Games are about choices. Choices should have consequences. The compromise is not that mastery changes cost something, it is that you’re allowed to do it at all. Mastery swaps are like RDTs. They allow you to reverse a game decision. In general, such reversals trivialize game decisions, and are normally not allowed. Allowing them at all is a compromise to the fact that the constraints placed on mastery decisions is wider than can be accommodated with a single setup, even accounting for the need to balance those decisions. The cost is there to add sufficient friction that players cannot simply change masteries whenever they want however often they want.

Mastery setup per deck preserves the notion that players should choose, and then live with those choices, it simply limits those decisions to optimizing a deck rather than trying to optimize the entire game, which preserves the idea that choice has consequence and changing your mind should have cost. Players only have to pay if they change their minds about how they want a deck to work. As far as I’m aware, although this wasn’t specifically stated in the preview, I don’t think there’s an associated cost to using a deck, even if it has an associated mastery setup.

DNA3000

Shiroihara said:

DNA3000 said:

Jgtheg said:

So why is the ability to save different mastery setups just coming to battlegrounds. Is this a beta test to see if it works before releasing it game wide? @Kabam Miike

People thinking this is a "beta test" probably have the wrong idea. Although the core technology could be used elsewhere, it does take significant development work to make this work in every game mode they ultimately decide to implement this for. So it has to launch somewhere: it would require a lot of work to launch it everywhere (assuming they even want to use it everywhere) and such work would go beyond the development resources allocated to Battlegrounds.

So while they probably do want to see how it works before considering using it anywhere else, I wouldn't call this a beta test. More that something had to be first, and there's no good reason to do it anywhere else until they see how it all goes in Battlegrounds.

Genuine question: you know these things or just guessing?

That this takes significant development to work? Know. That the core technology could be used outside the BG game mode? Know. That this would take significantly more effort to launch this everywhere, assuming they even wanted to? Know. That they want to see how this rolls out before deciding whether to do this anywhere else? Educated guess.

Shiroihara

DNA3000 said:

Kerem said:

7714dtl said:

Jgtheg said:

So why is the ability to save different mastery setups just coming to battlegrounds. Is this a beta test to see if it works before releasing it game wide? @Kabam Miike

They dont want it game wide so they can keep costing players units whenever you want to change your masteries. The avility to have multiple mastery setups is long overdo

That’s a business at the same time too. So it should cost some to players and no need to complain about it as long as it’s fair and reasonable tho

Revenue has never been an important factor in mastery setup costs. If it was, they wouldn’t have dramatically reduced those costs in the past. Rather, the reason is one that is very common to all game designers, but seems to be something that most players have trouble accepting. Games are about choices. Choices should have consequences. The compromise is not that mastery changes cost something, it is that you’re allowed to do it at all. Mastery swaps are like RDTs. They allow you to reverse a game decision. In general, such reversals trivialize game decisions, and are normally not allowed. Allowing them at all is a compromise to the fact that the constraints placed on mastery decisions is wider than can be accommodated with a single setup, even accounting for the need to balance those decisions. The cost is there to add sufficient friction that players cannot simply change masteries whenever they want however often they want.

Mastery setup per deck preserves the notion that players should choose, and then live with those choices, it simply limits those decisions to optimizing a deck rather than trying to optimize the entire game, which preserves the idea that choice has consequence and changing your mind should have cost. Players only have to pay if they change their minds about how they want a deck to work. As far as I’m aware, although this wasn’t specifically stated in the preview, I don’t think there’s an associated cost to using a deck, even if it has an associated mastery setup.

So they allow us to rearrange our masteries but they put a cost to it so we won’t do it too often.
Well that is a tough sell if I’ve ever seen one.
I think that making switching masteries free or allowing presets would make the game more interesting and enjoyable. I see zero problems with it.

DNA3000

Shiroihara said:

DNA3000 said:

Kerem said:

7714dtl said:

Jgtheg said:

So why is the ability to save different mastery setups just coming to battlegrounds. Is this a beta test to see if it works before releasing it game wide? @Kabam Miike

They dont want it game wide so they can keep costing players units whenever you want to change your masteries. The avility to have multiple mastery setups is long overdo

That’s a business at the same time too. So it should cost some to players and no need to complain about it as long as it’s fair and reasonable tho

Revenue has never been an important factor in mastery setup costs. If it was, they wouldn’t have dramatically reduced those costs in the past. Rather, the reason is one that is very common to all game designers, but seems to be something that most players have trouble accepting. Games are about choices. Choices should have consequences. The compromise is not that mastery changes cost something, it is that you’re allowed to do it at all. Mastery swaps are like RDTs. They allow you to reverse a game decision. In general, such reversals trivialize game decisions, and are normally not allowed. Allowing them at all is a compromise to the fact that the constraints placed on mastery decisions is wider than can be accommodated with a single setup, even accounting for the need to balance those decisions. The cost is there to add sufficient friction that players cannot simply change masteries whenever they want however often they want.

Mastery setup per deck preserves the notion that players should choose, and then live with those choices, it simply limits those decisions to optimizing a deck rather than trying to optimize the entire game, which preserves the idea that choice has consequence and changing your mind should have cost. Players only have to pay if they change their minds about how they want a deck to work. As far as I’m aware, although this wasn’t specifically stated in the preview, I don’t think there’s an associated cost to using a deck, even if it has an associated mastery setup.

So they allow us to rearrange our masteries but they put a cost to it so we won’t do it too often.
Well that is a tough sell if I’ve ever seen one.
I think that making switching masteries free or allowing presets would make the game more interesting and enjoyable. I see zero problems with it.

Gravity is a tough sell as well, or would be if anyone had a choice.

Kerem

7714dtl said:

Kerem said:

7714dtl said:

Jgtheg said:

So why is the ability to save different mastery setups just coming to battlegrounds. Is this a beta test to see if it works before releasing it game wide? @Kabam Miike

They dont want it game wide so they can keep costing players units whenever you want to change your masteries. The avility to have multiple mastery setups is long overdo

That’s a business at the same time too. So it should cost some to players and no need to complain about it as long as it’s fair and reasonable tho

Yes it is a business, thanks for stating the obvious.I will never understand why people like you get so offended at mentions of Kabam milking players for money. But as for if it should cost players to redo their masteries that is your opinion.

And mine is that it is not unreasonable to at this point, this many years into the game hope for the developers to finally grant us at least a second mastery setup if not more.

You’re very welcome!!

The point wasn’t about the mastery setup and it’s kinda shame for me to seem like I’m offending Kabam. I just said that because that’s the truth. Sometimes our expectations are more than should.