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Due to issues related to the release of Mastery Loadouts, the "free swap" period will be extended.
The new end date will be May 1st.
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Dual crystal controversy
Minderu
Posts: 72 ★★
I love this as much as the next guy, and I understand people have a problem with the price. But let me throw another hat into the ring, doesn’t this finally coming to the game also invalidate the top prize for TB. For the summer event, it feels kind if insulting to make f2p player wait THREE MONTHS. Then drop their top prize for an extra 2.5k the cost of a basic.35
Comments
No reason they should cost more.
Now a crystal that reduced the odds of getting a duplicate....that would be great.
I mean, it’s another chance to pull that Nick fury you’re targeting, or to remove the science, mystic options from a Crystal pull since you already have most of the good ones.
I think dual class as a concept are great to add, they shouldn’t have been skipped over because they were a prize from the summer event
Dual 4 stars crystals => 2000 shards
Basic 5 stars crystal => 10 000 shards
Dual 5 stars crystals => 10 000 shards
Basic 6 stars crystal => 10 000 shards
Dual 6 stars crystals => 12 500 shards !!!
Why make the 6 dual 6 stars crystal more expensive than the basic when every other dual crystal have the same cost than their basic counterpart ?
When 5* dual class crystals were released, 6*'s were already the meta. 5*'s weren't what people were aiming for. Being that there isn't any competition for 6*'s in terms of a higher rarity, it does make sense for the higher price since they aren't being pushed away for 7*'s. So the reason given makes sense in those terms.
Again, 10k probably would have been just fine.
There’s gonna be some maths here so feel free to skip if you hate it.
Let’s say you separated every single champion into good and bad pulls for you. Let say out of 300 (for easy numbers) champions you have 75 good pulls, and 200 bad pulls. Overall in a basic, you have a 25% (75/300) chance at a good pull.
Let’s just assume all classes have equal numbers of 50 per class, so 100 per dual class.
Now, let’s say that in science and mystic you have 30 good pulls, 70 bad pulls.
Tech cosmic 10 good, 90 bad.
Skill mutant 35 good 65 bad.
This means:
Sc/My % for good pull = 30%
Te/Co % for good pull = 10%
Sk/Mu % for good pull = 35%
So when you look at your basic Crystal with a 20% chance at a good pull, and you think oh damn, most of my bad pulls are tech or cosmic champs, why don’t I spend 2.5k extra shards to bump my chances up of getting a good pull?
You can buy 5 basics or 4 dual with 50k shards. So the odds of pulling at least 1 good champion from:
5 basics is 1 - ( 0.75^5 ) = 76.2%
4 dual Skill Mutant is 1 - (0.65^4) = 82.1%
4 dual science/mystic is 1 - (0.7^4) = 76.0%
So you can see that spending an equal amount of shards, you can bump up your chances of getting at least one good pull by a fair amount.
So that is the time when going for dual class makes more sense. If you have a greater chance of pulling a good champion from your shards.
It won’t be the right choice all the time, you may want to broaden your roster and get more champions overall (I mean, you could buy 4 dual class or 5 basic, so it’s not that much of a difference), or you may not be able to decide. “Kitty is in this one, but Doom is in this one?!”
Or maybe you just don’t have enough variance in your roster. I mean with the example above, you can see that the difference between basic and dual class good champion percentage being 5% (25% total for basic and 30% for dual), they both have around a 76% chance to give you at least one good champion from 50k shards. So maybe you just don’t have any particular class that is better than the other two.
If all the %s for a good pull in each dual class is pretty similar, then you won’t have a high enough chance to make 50k shards noticeably bump up your chances, so stick with basics!
Ultimately the choice is up to you, but this is the factual reason why dual class crystals cost more. Because they allow you to benefit yourself and give yourself a greater chance of good champions.
So as long as the odds are greater when you compare 5 basics to 4 dual, that’s when you are spending your shards statistically smartly.
And if you don’t like them, or you don’t see a benefit (statistical or otherwise) you absolutely don’t have to buy them.
5* dual class crystals were added in August 2020
As of that time, 6*s had been in the game since January of 2018, which was 2 years and 7 months before the 5* dual class were added.
So let’s take the precedent of before. A dual class Crystal is added for 10k shards when the upper rarity has been in the game for 2 years 7 months.
So let’s say 7* champions are added into the game tomorrow, just like that. We would be waiting until April 2025 until 10k 6* dual class crystals are added, assuming the same precedent that you were drawing from in your post. Plus, one month more for every month until 7*s are added.
Somehow, I’m starting to think that only 2.5k extra in between now and mid 2025 is pretty good.
It’s to do with how rare the champions in that Crystal are. When the 5* dual classes were added for 10k, we could get 6* rank 3 champions which were a rank above. That devalues how high a ceiling a 5* has. And that’s why they were only 10k, because they’re much less value compared to 6*s today - which are the most valuable champions in the game.
I completely get why it looks weird, but when you take a second to think about it. It’s just good we have dual classes already, and they’ll only get cheaper in the years to come. One day they’ll be 10k I’m sure. With our 7* rank 3 LockJaws and Mystiques.
I'm not sure what relevance that has to the point I made though, 5* dual class were added when we had 6* champions in the game, you cannot just say "Oh well the precedent is that it should be the same as the basic" when you can quite clearly tell we are not in the same situation as when the 5* was added - we don't have 7*s in game, 6*s are the top rarity, and you are paying in order to increase your odds of good champions. If you don't want to pay, then you don't have to.
In August 2020, if you had a chance to dupe Cap or Void, you would’ve gotten a lot more bang for your buck over the next 6 months by duping the 5-star.
In other words, we were pulling 5-stars at a time that they were on par with the upper limits of most 6-star champs. Eventually 6-stars would move beyond that, but that really happened across 2021.
Lol, this is a terrible comparison. You’re comparing to something that might never happen (7-stars).
Anecdotally, these dual crystals have come along at a much later stage of my account progression. I don’t have a screenshot of my account from exactly when 5-star dual crystals were released, but I do have one from Oct 2020 (1 month before I did my Abyss run and became Thronebreaker, so I wasn’t a new player at all)
Oct 2020 5-stars owned:
89 out of roughly 180 in the game at the time. So 50% owned. And 34 were awakened. So 40% of the champs I owned were awakened.
Sept 2022 6-stars owned:
133 out of roughly 230 in the game. So 60% owned. And 60 are awakened. So 45% of the champs I own are awakened.
I’m already farther along in my 6-star progression right now than my 5-star progression was 2 months after those dual crystals were released.
See, people can find comparisons to show the exact opposite of what you’re saying.
When you compare how important 5* rank 5s are and will be as of 2020, and how important 6*s Rank 4s are and will be as of 2022, I think it’s clear that the champion with the extra room to grow is more important. 6*s have an extra rank, and are also the top rarity in the game. 5*s had 0 ranks to grow, and were beginning to be supplanted by 6*s.
Even just from that one point of view, 6*s are more valuable today than 5*s were at the time.
Additionally, 6* Rank 3s had been in the game since November 2019, which is 9 months before the 5* dual class crystals. So it’s not quite the rare rank up that you think it is. Act 6 had been out for 5 months, Act 7.1 came out 4 months afterwards. We’re speaking like this was ancient history, but in terms of the game it really wasn’t that long ago.
5*s were not as valuable as 6*s are now, and if you’re arguing that they were, I don’t really know where to go with that conversation. So I’ll ask straight up, do you think 5*s were more valuable then in august 2020 than 6*s are now in 2022?
Secondly, You’re buying the benefit of Crystals, and dual class crystals allow you to tilt the odds in your favour and buy a benefit.
The fact that people are getting so angry about the price being raised shows that dual class crystals are a bonus that they want, why does it not make sense to pay for a benefit? And if they’re exactly equal, why not just stick with the basic.
Either dual are better, in which case you should understand why you pay the extra, or they’re not better in which why are you annoyed?
I don’t really understand what point you think you’re making with the % of champion you anecdotally own, but I’m happy to listen again if you’d like to explain.
Why would i spent 12 500 for old champions ,1 chance over ~80 champions available in dual crystal, when i can spend 13 000 shards to try to win a new champion (1 over 24 available in featured) ?
People will spend 10 000 shards in hope to get or dupe an old champion (which what i did with the dual 5 stars crystals) but, with only 500 shards between Dual and featured, most people with Sigil will go for the featured.
I probably explained it better in the other thread that got silently shutdown, but dual crystals only have higher value because basics have LOST value. The pool of good pulls drops as your roster progresses and you chase a smaller number of champs. And why do you think that’s just okay and should continue forever (or until you switch to Featured crystals)? Why shouldn’t I get more choice as the percentage of champs that I actually want goes down? Why should my 6-star shards effectively lose so much value?
Anyway, this is probably not at the top of the list for Kabam right now, it just sucks because this could have been an exciting pro-player move in an ocean of disappointment and screw-ups this month.
for us TB and Paragon players i think its agreeable that 5* shards/crystals are NOT what we the majority are trying to go for these days. that being said i think its also agreeable that 5* shards are a lot easier to get compared to a 6*, with that basic info i dont agree that a 6* duel should cost more when its more difficult to get 6* shards compared to 5* shards.
if someone from kabam can explain what the pros are from making these unnecessary increases? and when i say pros, pls reframe from using cooperate talk and make it nice and simple.. cause the economy and state of the game dont agree with these types of "progressive" moves.