Continued Attack on Recoil Mastery Tree Users
Smeagz23
Member Posts: 116 ★★
(Disclaimer: If you don’t run recoil tree and are just going to comment “then don’t run those masteries” please just don’t read this or comment. I don’t judge you for the masteries you use so don’t judge me for the ones i like to use)
Whether it’s Battle Grounds, Quests, Alliance Wars or even Eternity of Pain you have made running the recoil mastery tree more expensive and more difficult than ever. It’s always been a trade off taking damage, having less regen, and having to watch special use but in return getting more damage output and even being able to heal with some champions like diablo, Hercules, kitty pryde, etc. was worth it to a lot of players like me but recently you have made so many nodes that completely cut off the legs of recoil tree users. It was one thing having to take off recoil masteries to place aw defense, dealing with the annoying heal block nodes and having to fight voids, warlocks, etc. (which was still a pain as it was) but you just keep making recoil tree masteries unusable at every turn. You keep adding nodes to eop that are not just hard but impossible to do with recoil masteries (like this weeks Nick Fury), you continually make bg metas that extremely negatively affect recoil users, and now you’ve made this seasons aw meta (unsteady ground) where you have a 60% chance to glance just for having the bleed and poison for the recoil tree on you. You should be trying to create an equal playing ground for recoil and non recoil players but instead you just keep making it worse. You had a chance to help the situation by making a mastery 2.0 system that would let us change our masteries for free or at least cheaper and easier to certain presets but instead you just put in presets for specifically bgs. I’v been playing this game for about 7 years and have been a recoil tree user for the majority of them. I’ve built my roster around those champs that are good/better with them and not ranked champions that can’t be used with them and now i just feel like everything i worked for, am used to, and like can’t be used most of the time and frankly it makes me feel like i don’t want to continue to play this game that is constantly punishing me for the choices I've made in it that YOU have have put in the game. It’s not like i’m doing anything illegal or shady. These are masteries that you put in this game for players to run and now everywhere you look is nodes punishing us for it. I already have to spend more units than non recoil tree users every time i place aw d but now i have to take them off for eop, if i want to play bgs, and now for aw attack..? So i basically just can't run them anymore and all my champions i’ve ranked as a result of running recoil tree are useless/worse.. There are a lot of things pushing me away from this game but this might actually be the biggest one. You need to change your outlook on designing nodes asap or i just don’t see how i can continue to play this game.
Whether it’s Battle Grounds, Quests, Alliance Wars or even Eternity of Pain you have made running the recoil mastery tree more expensive and more difficult than ever. It’s always been a trade off taking damage, having less regen, and having to watch special use but in return getting more damage output and even being able to heal with some champions like diablo, Hercules, kitty pryde, etc. was worth it to a lot of players like me but recently you have made so many nodes that completely cut off the legs of recoil tree users. It was one thing having to take off recoil masteries to place aw defense, dealing with the annoying heal block nodes and having to fight voids, warlocks, etc. (which was still a pain as it was) but you just keep making recoil tree masteries unusable at every turn. You keep adding nodes to eop that are not just hard but impossible to do with recoil masteries (like this weeks Nick Fury), you continually make bg metas that extremely negatively affect recoil users, and now you’ve made this seasons aw meta (unsteady ground) where you have a 60% chance to glance just for having the bleed and poison for the recoil tree on you. You should be trying to create an equal playing ground for recoil and non recoil players but instead you just keep making it worse. You had a chance to help the situation by making a mastery 2.0 system that would let us change our masteries for free or at least cheaper and easier to certain presets but instead you just put in presets for specifically bgs. I’v been playing this game for about 7 years and have been a recoil tree user for the majority of them. I’ve built my roster around those champs that are good/better with them and not ranked champions that can’t be used with them and now i just feel like everything i worked for, am used to, and like can’t be used most of the time and frankly it makes me feel like i don’t want to continue to play this game that is constantly punishing me for the choices I've made in it that YOU have have put in the game. It’s not like i’m doing anything illegal or shady. These are masteries that you put in this game for players to run and now everywhere you look is nodes punishing us for it. I already have to spend more units than non recoil tree users every time i place aw d but now i have to take them off for eop, if i want to play bgs, and now for aw attack..? So i basically just can't run them anymore and all my champions i’ve ranked as a result of running recoil tree are useless/worse.. There are a lot of things pushing me away from this game but this might actually be the biggest one. You need to change your outlook on designing nodes asap or i just don’t see how i can continue to play this game.
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Comments
Having debuffs on you is generally a bad thing. You have decided to keep some on you. Losing health is a bad thing, you have decided to lose health when you throw specials.
You get the pros of having more attack, and healing with some champions like Omega red, Diablo etc, but you can’t then complain when the cons come knocking.
The names of the masteries should give you a clue. Glass cannon. Recoil. Liquid courage. Double edge
A glass canon is strong offence, weak defence. You get attack, you have less health as a result.
The recoil of a gun is a downside of using it to attack
Liquid courage. Using alcohol, pretty clear downside there, for an upside of feeling a bit braver
Double edge - literally the definition of something that has pros and cons.
Unfortunately, your mastery tree just has too many nodes and interactions that punish it. I could make you a list of 40-50 of them now. When kabam are designing fights, are they supposed to just avoid them because of your optional mastery? Are they supposed to just say “well, everything in the game should be tailored towards this choice with clear cons”? I don’t think so. I think you make the choice for the upsides, and the downsides come with it.
At some places it makes sense (BGs), but in AW it sounds like a nonsense. Not only do you make defense 10x easier, but it also cripples you on offense now.
Imo there should be kept a "quid pro quo" system. You get attack bonus, but can't avoid the damage you get. If you can't use the dmg bonus (due to Glancing), you shouldn't take dmg either. That's my vision only tho, I understand most will be against. I wouldn't change it in-game either, because the current system has worked well for years.
Generally, I think more mastery loadouts are the way to go
Have them unlocked, dont use them.
I am wholly in favor of making presets available so that mastery swapping is at least easier and maybe even cheaper, but the recoil tree masteries should remain as they are.
Several are a "doubled edged" sword" if you pardon the pun, and that doesn't even cover the benefits of using one vs. another with limited mastery points.
There are always times you want to change the masteries... and I can appreciate the released relic equip cost as a potential solution, where you get a limited number of changes per time period for free... but it should cost you to change them every single fight / that isn't the intention.
That said... you seem to be an intelligent player with all the facts. I'm not going to tell you not to use them... but I will say... choose to make changes when the benefit outweighs the cost, and try to generally use well rounded masteries that don't require you to change every 15 minutes.
Adding in increasing amounts of content where their disadvantages are not the only negatives and in some cases roadblocks you, is poor design and a repeated kick in the nuts for those who have invested in these.
And for those of us that have; we've often committed an entire build of each of 4*, 5* and 6* roster build around suicides, so that we aren't hugely impacted by them. They aren't a negative in most cases. Even that stacked warlock or void; provided I can take a double immune for the former and shulk or shrugger for the latter, then I'm good. And I've a roster geared up for that. I make BG selection choices with that in mind.
When you've invested in this tree, you commit a lot to working around it.
@Kabam Miike and @Kabam Jax on that note, is there any chance of getting a developer view on double edge/liquid courage and how much those who have invested in these (one of the highest investments in the game) are going to be impacted by design going forwards, so we can make better informed decisions?
Games evolve, we have to deal with the consequences. And yes, I have the masteries unlocked and used them. But switched a while back as it wasn’t worth it to me anymore. Put my big boy pants on and moved on
But... In classic overreacting, 1 fight means it's the end of the world. They even said they don't think they can continue to play because of this one fight after 6 years. That's besides the point that there have been many fights in the game that required suicides to be off.
However, I also think it's worth keeping one thing in mind when the occasional anti-recoil node pops up: whenever it doesn't, you get an absolutely massive advantage over non-recoil players. +60% damage is a huge increase and makes every fight much easier as long as you have the champions to mitigate the damage you take. It makes BG harder, but Arena easier. It's a constant give and take, and those players who choose to not put them on are at a constant disadvantage damage-wise. In fact, if there weren't the occasional roadblock for recoil users, I think those masteries would be way too OP.
As for EOP, I can only really think of one fight that was made significantly harder with the recoil tree on, and that was last week's fight with its passive heal block node. I don't think recoil users were screwed over this week - in fact, I'd argue that it allowed the fight to be played much safer since you could just shut off Fury's impossible-to-dex SP1 - and I think anyone with Willpower was equally screwed during the Warlock fight. I don't remember any other fight interacting with your healing/debuffs in a way that's relevant to this discussion, and that's over several months' worth of endgame content. I don't really see a continued attack on recoil users there.
SO.I.TURNED.THEM.OFF.!!!!
I am in a decision process now whether or not I should turn it off for eop, war etc.
Man I like the power boost ☹️
Then you can get as crazy as you like with nodes.
I run these masteries since 2016.
Yes, their activation was also my biggest cost in the game.
Yes, there are pros and cons.
Pros:
- Hit harder but not that much...
- Arenas are a bit easier and their fights are a bit faster.
- There are some champions that take a real advantage of these masteries but the list is very short among the 210 champions the game. With 10 fingers to count them, I have more than enough.
Cons:
- Double Edge makes loose around 7% of your heath in 1 fight with the best masteries, and much more (up to 20%) without them.
- Liquid Courage reduces the regeneration by 33%.
- Recoil cost 5% of health per SP1 or SP2 so play without them. And as a SP hits harder than a base attack, the gain on duration is not so big.
- As a consequence, your AW defenders are weaker.
- I won’t disable my masteries to check this, but I am pretty sure that the real difference with and without Liquid Courage and Double Edge when hitting is not 60%.
- As it was not enough, Kabam disabled (silently) the Suture effect on Double Edge bleeding for a while (by restricting to bleeding caused by the opponent). The Willpower effect was reduced several years ago. And I am not sure Coagulate is still so effective on Double Edge. That’s why the loss is important on every fight, even if you play perfectly and have the best masteries to reduce the effects.
Yes, there were more than 2 fights of EoP designed against these masteries. As I won’t change my masteries for EoP, I just skipped the annoying weeks.