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Let's talk Battlegrounds matchmaking.

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    SearmenisSearmenis Posts: 1,545 ★★★★★
    ItsClobberinTime said:

    We all get the same amount of trophy tokens per league in VC though, that's literally competing for same rewards.

    In arenas you can get the SAME milestones (aka rewards) if you have two or 50 6* champions. Exactly the same. Rank rewards differ.
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    SuperDuperBuuuSuperDuperBuuu Posts: 44 ★★
    ItsClobberinTime said:

    We all get the same amount of trophy tokens per league in VC though, that's literally competing for same rewards.

    Trophy Tokens are only as valuable as your progression, a Cavalier & Thronebreaker player has to pay more than a Paragon player for the rewards in the store, so technically equal rewards isn't correct.
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    SearmenisSearmenis Posts: 1,545 ★★★★★
    ItsClobberinTime said:

    SuperDuperBuuu said:

    ItsClobberinTime said:

    We all get the same amount of trophy tokens per league in VC though, that's literally competing for same rewards.

    Trophy Tokens are only as valuable as your progression, a Cavalier & Thronebreaker player has to pay more than a Paragon player for the rewards in the store, so technically equal rewards isn't correct.
    What you can or can't get in the store has absolutely nothing to do with this. We all get the same amount of trophy tokens so technically you are competing for the same rewards because the rewards are the trophy tokens and the elder marks not what you can or can't get in the store based on your progression level.
    You compete for rank rewards, not the milestones that everyone can get with a favorable rng and a lot of time.
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    ItsClobberinTimeItsClobberinTime Posts: 3,295 ★★★★★
    Searmenis said:

    ItsClobberinTime said:

    We all get the same amount of trophy tokens per league in VC though, that's literally competing for same rewards.

    In arenas you can get the SAME milestones (aka rewards) if you have two or 50 6* champions. Exactly the same. Rank rewards differ.
    What do Arena rank rewards have to do with VC rewards? Lol
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    SearmenisSearmenis Posts: 1,545 ★★★★★
    ItsClobberinTime said:

    Searmenis said:

    ItsClobberinTime said:

    SuperDuperBuuu said:

    ItsClobberinTime said:

    We all get the same amount of trophy tokens per league in VC though, that's literally competing for same rewards.

    Trophy Tokens are only as valuable as your progression, a Cavalier & Thronebreaker player has to pay more than a Paragon player for the rewards in the store, so technically equal rewards isn't correct.
    What you can or can't get in the store has absolutely nothing to do with this. We all get the same amount of trophy tokens so technically you are competing for the same rewards because the rewards are the trophy tokens and the elder marks not what you can or can't get in the store based on your progression level.
    You compete for rank rewards, not the milestones that everyone can get with a favorable rng and a lot of time.
    Yes, and guess what? We're all competing for the same ranked rewards too whether you're Paragon or UC.
    You realize the way matchmaking works right now, a lot of UC players are going to get better ranked rewards than Paragons because they can barely win 3 matches in a row meanwhile we're out here winning 10 in a row with no problem? If you don't see how this is unfair I don't know what to tell you.
    I understand what u re saying, last two season I ended up to Diamond 1, now I m stuck to Gold 2. But the GC level is, supposedly, what a good player is aiming for, where you won't find UC players at all I suppose.
    The Victory track rank rewards are buy to get anyway.
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    SearmenisSearmenis Posts: 1,545 ★★★★★
    ItsClobberinTime said:

    Searmenis said:

    ItsClobberinTime said:

    Searmenis said:

    ItsClobberinTime said:

    SuperDuperBuuu said:

    ItsClobberinTime said:

    We all get the same amount of trophy tokens per league in VC though, that's literally competing for same rewards.

    Trophy Tokens are only as valuable as your progression, a Cavalier & Thronebreaker player has to pay more than a Paragon player for the rewards in the store, so technically equal rewards isn't correct.
    What you can or can't get in the store has absolutely nothing to do with this. We all get the same amount of trophy tokens so technically you are competing for the same rewards because the rewards are the trophy tokens and the elder marks not what you can or can't get in the store based on your progression level.
    You compete for rank rewards, not the milestones that everyone can get with a favorable rng and a lot of time.
    Yes, and guess what? We're all competing for the same ranked rewards too whether you're Paragon or UC.
    You realize the way matchmaking works right now, a lot of UC players are going to get better ranked rewards than Paragons because they can barely win 3 matches in a row meanwhile we're out here winning 10 in a row with no problem? If you don't see how this is unfair I don't know what to tell you.
    I understand what u re saying, last two season I ended up to Diamond 1, now I m stuck to Gold 2. But the GC level is, supposedly, what a good player is aiming for, where you won't find UC players at all I suppose.
    The Victory track rank rewards are buy to get anyway.
    Well, thing is, with the way matchmaking is right now I could easily make it to GC by next week which is ridiculous. That is why at some point matchmaking should be completely random, so people like me can't keep climbing up the ladder while the bigger accounts are still down there losing against each other in a loop.
    That, or based on a deck by deck comparison for Victory Track.
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    BulmktBulmkt Posts: 1,552 ★★★★
    TheCaptain412 said:

    Bulmkt said:

    All I know is I have 9 R4’s and I’m up against opponents that seem to have closer to 20 R4’s in their BG roster.
    And half the time I might be lucky to select 2 or 3 of my R4’s yet the opponent seems to have a smorgasbord to choose from their R4’s

    I’m Cav, with 0 r4, 3 r3, and 6 r2, and I’m getting paired against rosters like yours or the ones you’re getting paired with. As soon as they eliminate three of my best, I have almost no chance to compete with them, as they inevitably get a handful of their r3/4s, and I might get one, maybe two if I’m lucky, of my r2s.

    I’ve lost 15 of my last 18 matches in Gold III, and it’s frustrating. I’m waiting until these kinds of players get to GC, but there are seemingly endless waves of them. Maybe this mode just isn’t for me.
    I hear you mate…pity the game mgmt doesn’t
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    IamGrO_otIamGrO_ot Posts: 172 ★★
    edited December 2022
    If you think a little differently, and restart the entire BG meta, you could, for example, change the setup. One starts the players in different groups based on progression titles.

    UC > Bronze3
    Cav > Silver3
    TB > Gold3
    Paragon > Plat3

    Then one introduces restrictions in the deck, in the various groups.

    Bronze > 4*s only
    Silver > 5*s only
    Gold > 5/6*s only / max 2 R4s
    Plat and above > 5/6*s only

    If you are a Paragon, you can still play in the groups under plat3, and complete the group 100% if you want those rewards as well, but you must participate with the deck restrictions that are in that group.
    The same applies to TB and Cav.

    One reintroduces BG rating, as in the Beta version. One starts at 1500 rating, +15 points for a win/-15 points for a loss, and fights the nearest in rating in the same group.

    This eliminates sandbagging altogether. Players will get fairer fights regardless of level. Those who want to grab all the rewards can do so. Those who are happy to start a little ahead and not look back, can do so to.

    This does not change elder marks, victory shields, points in relation to solo or alliance rewards, but makes things significantly better for all players, regardless of level and ambitions.

    You're welcome 😜
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    ShiroiharaShiroihara Posts: 1,092 ★★★★
    TheCaptain412 said:

    Bulmkt said:

    All I know is I have 9 R4’s and I’m up against opponents that seem to have closer to 20 R4’s in their BG roster.
    And half the time I might be lucky to select 2 or 3 of my R4’s yet the opponent seems to have a smorgasbord to choose from their R4’s

    I’m Cav, with 0 r4, 3 r3, and 6 r2, and I’m getting paired against rosters like yours or the ones you’re getting paired with. As soon as they eliminate three of my best, I have almost no chance to compete with them, as they inevitably get a handful of their r3/4s, and I might get one, maybe two if I’m lucky, of my r2s.

    I’ve lost 15 of my last 18 matches in Gold III, and it’s frustrating. I’m waiting until these kinds of players get to GC, but there are seemingly endless waves of them. Maybe this mode just isn’t for me.
    I don’t think that’s going to happen. I do only play when the solo objectives come out, but when I do I get matched with paragon players with quite strong rosters (I have four rank 4s) that you’d think would be higher than Silver II by this point.
    Either they play very casually or they’re stuck in the same rot as me. I win one, lose one, I win two, I lose the next two.
    I have nothing to say about UC players getting the same rewards, happy for them. I think no one should feel frustrated; not UC and certainly not Paragon players that have invested a lot of time in this game.
    Personally, other than the objectives, I feel that I can get more out of arena for the time invested.
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    AnlyAnly Posts: 615 ★★
    Ironman3000 said:

    Anly said:

    Chatterofforums said:

    I still can't figure out why some UC and Cav think they shouldn't be matches against TB or paragon when everyone is competing for same rewards. If Kabam ever said that BG was designed to give everyone fair matches the. I'd understand however they never said that nor would that be in line with how the MCOC game modes generally work so thus thought process confuses me.

    @Chatterofforums they dont think they should fight them cause theres no chance of winning one is not competing for the same rewards if they're constantly being curbed stomped
    Wrong.

    They 100% are fighting for the same rewards.
    @Ironman3000 if they are fighting against higher acounts with no chance of winning then they are earning less points therefore they cannot possibly be fighting for the same rewards, you cannot tell me with a straight face that they are "fighting for the same rewards" when the fight you're reffering to is one sided
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    AnlyAnly Posts: 615 ★★
    ItsClobberinTime said:

    Anly said:

    Chatterofforums said:

    I still can't figure out why some UC and Cav think they shouldn't be matches against TB or paragon when everyone is competing for same rewards. If Kabam ever said that BG was designed to give everyone fair matches the. I'd understand however they never said that nor would that be in line with how the MCOC game modes generally work so thus thought process confuses me.

    @Chatterofforums they dont think they should fight them cause theres no chance of winning one is not competing for the same rewards if they're constantly being curbed stomped
    Normally I'd disagree with that guy but you're wrong, we are competing for same rewards. We get the same amount of trophy tokens and elder marks. We're even competing for the same ranked rewards.
    Do you think it's fair for us to be pulling off 7-8 win streaks in a row while the stronger players can barely get 3? The result is going to be us getting better ranked rewards than them and maybe even making it into GC, which makes no sense. I'm not saying matchmaking should be random as soon as you start your first fight in bronze 3 but there should be a brick wall for us so the stronger players can keep climbing up and then we climb up after them, not the other way around.
    @ItsClobberinTime What makes you think that a UC fighting a equal matchup is easier than a Paragon fighting a equal matchup

    We are not fighting for trophy tokens and elder marks because if one player gets them that dosent mean the other wont i was reffering to the ranked rewards where other player can actually knock down your rank
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    Dragoon81Dragoon81 Posts: 147 ★★
    Well at least all the sandbagging threads have died lol.
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    Johnson374Johnson374 Posts: 30 ★
    ... I'm cav focusing on ranking 6*. now with 4 x 6*r3. only gm stood in my way for tb. going to get it done in time.

    my account is not extensive, I do not have many 5*r5 and a few 6*r2. It's hard to win BG anymore because I got matched up with guys with a lot more winnable champs. I have maybe 10-12 minus 3 banned. if RNG is kind, I have a fighting chance of a win but it's very hard to find good counters and attackers for 3 consecutive wins.

    still trying to get the objectives done and collect tokens. best rewards in the game right now (for my level anyway) ...
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    GreekhitGreekhit Posts: 2,819 ★★★★★
    Chatterofforums said:

    ItsClobberinTime said:

    Anly said:

    ItsClobberinTime said:

    Anly said:

    Chatterofforums said:

    I still can't figure out why some UC and Cav think they shouldn't be matches against TB or paragon when everyone is competing for same rewards. If Kabam ever said that BG was designed to give everyone fair matches the. I'd understand however they never said that nor would that be in line with how the MCOC game modes generally work so thus thought process confuses me.

    @Chatterofforums they dont think they should fight them cause theres no chance of winning one is not competing for the same rewards if they're constantly being curbed stomped
    Normally I'd disagree with that guy but you're wrong, we are competing for same rewards. We get the same amount of trophy tokens and elder marks. We're even competing for the same ranked rewards.
    Do you think it's fair for us to be pulling off 7-8 win streaks in a row while the stronger players can barely get 3? The result is going to be us getting better ranked rewards than them and maybe even making it into GC, which makes no sense. I'm not saying matchmaking should be random as soon as you start your first fight in bronze 3 but there should be a brick wall for us so the stronger players can keep climbing up and then we climb up after them, not the other way around.
    @ItsClobberinTime What makes you think that a UC fighting a equal matchup is easier than a Paragon fighting a equal matchup

    We are not fighting for trophy tokens and elder marks because if one player gets them that dosent mean the other wont i was reffering to the ranked rewards where other player can actually knock down your rank
    The issue is Paragons aren't having equal matchups, that's where you're wrong. As so many people have tried explaining to you the gaps between Paragons in account strength can be massive, that doesn't happen with us UC players. As it stands, a Paragon with two r4 6* can easily get matched with a whale with ten or eleven r4 6* making it nearly impossible for them to win matches.

    Right, nobody's arguing they won't. What we're arguing is the fact that an UC player can currently get to GC quicker than a Paragon, that right there is a huge issue.
    Clobberin is exactly correct here and the fact that him and I are agreeing on a BG topic should speak volumes as anyone who follows these threads know we haven't exactly seen eye to eye on pretty much anything on BG (until now).

    What's happening now with BG is exactly what I feared, expected and even predicted on this topic before the matchmaking changes. I went so far to predict this (as was a pretty predictable outcome) that I even made a thread that I was strongly considering avoiding new top rankups or putting more sig into top prestige champs.

    I was already in GC before the recent change so I can't speak on my current experience but seeing the posts I've seen ita clear what's been done. I'm very much hoping Kabam is reading these threads and realizes what they have done is almost identical to the massively failed AW matchmaking experiment from a couple years ago.
    It’s the exact same thing as AW prestige matchmaking.
    A totally unfair system that favours small accounts.
    I’m a 3,5mil Paragon player “stuck” at last tier of VT after the matchmaking change, seeing Uncollected players bragging on global chat about their GC position that stole from higher accounts.
    You know how annoying is, for a player with thousands of hours on the game, seeing a few hours account placing better on the most important atm competitive mode?
    It’s infuriating 😠
    Matchmaking should be totally random within the same bracket.
    This is the fairest of all.
    Kabam knows that, players know that either, as we all had the previous AW prestige matchmaking bs experience.
    Anything else is matchmaking manipulation, that favours different portions of the playerbase.
    Current is favouring small accounts and hurting higher ones.
    Kabam messed it once again 😠
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    rockykostonrockykoston Posts: 1,505 ★★★★
    edited December 2022
    Take what you want from this but this is who I faced, in order from right to left in Diamond 2.

    The second column are my profile stats.

    Results reflect that skills (with some luck) matter slightly more than roster strength.


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    ItsClobberinTimeItsClobberinTime Posts: 3,295 ★★★★★
    Chatterofforums said:

    ItsClobberinTime said:

    Anly said:

    ItsClobberinTime said:

    Anly said:

    Chatterofforums said:

    I still can't figure out why some UC and Cav think they shouldn't be matches against TB or paragon when everyone is competing for same rewards. If Kabam ever said that BG was designed to give everyone fair matches the. I'd understand however they never said that nor would that be in line with how the MCOC game modes generally work so thus thought process confuses me.

    @Chatterofforums they dont think they should fight them cause theres no chance of winning one is not competing for the same rewards if they're constantly being curbed stomped
    Normally I'd disagree with that guy but you're wrong, we are competing for same rewards. We get the same amount of trophy tokens and elder marks. We're even competing for the same ranked rewards.
    Do you think it's fair for us to be pulling off 7-8 win streaks in a row while the stronger players can barely get 3? The result is going to be us getting better ranked rewards than them and maybe even making it into GC, which makes no sense. I'm not saying matchmaking should be random as soon as you start your first fight in bronze 3 but there should be a brick wall for us so the stronger players can keep climbing up and then we climb up after them, not the other way around.
    @ItsClobberinTime What makes you think that a UC fighting a equal matchup is easier than a Paragon fighting a equal matchup

    We are not fighting for trophy tokens and elder marks because if one player gets them that dosent mean the other wont i was reffering to the ranked rewards where other player can actually knock down your rank
    The issue is Paragons aren't having equal matchups, that's where you're wrong. As so many people have tried explaining to you the gaps between Paragons in account strength can be massive, that doesn't happen with us UC players. As it stands, a Paragon with two r4 6* can easily get matched with a whale with ten or eleven r4 6* making it nearly impossible for them to win matches.

    Right, nobody's arguing they won't. What we're arguing is the fact that an UC player can currently get to GC quicker than a Paragon, that right there is a huge issue.
    Clobberin is exactly correct here and the fact that him and I are agreeing on a BG topic should speak volumes as anyone who follows these threads know we haven't exactly seen eye to eye on pretty much anything on BG (until now).

    What's happening now with BG is exactly what I feared, expected and even predicted on this topic before the matchmaking changes. I went so far to predict this (as was a pretty predictable outcome) that I even made a thread that I was strongly considering avoiding new top rankups or putting more sig into top prestige champs.

    I was already in GC before the recent change so I can't speak on my current experience but seeing the posts I've seen ita clear what's been done. I'm very much hoping Kabam is reading these threads and realizes what they have done is almost identical to the massively failed AW matchmaking experiment from a couple years ago.
    Yeah, didn't think we'd ever agree on anything but here we are.

    As I mentioned to somebody else already, I'm not biased when it comes to balance. Do I think sandbagging was the most unfair broken thing in BGs right after modders? Yes. Do I think the game mode is a lot more enjoyable now that sandbagging is gone? Definitely. Do I think matchmaking is fine now that I'm able to climb the ladder faster than a Paragon? Absolutely not.
    I hope they do some adjustments next season cause if they don't it's gonna be a mess for TBs and above while we and Cavs probably make it into GC where we obviously don't belong.

    They should simply just go with random matchmaking and every season Paragon starts on plat 3, TB on gold 3, Cav on silver 3 and UC on bronze 3. That way we don't have to face massive whales as soon as the season starts but if we get to the higher leagues eventually, there will be a brick wall waiting for us and unless they climb up the ladder first, we won't be able to either. Matching people based on prestige is not a good idea clearly.
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    SuperChronaSuperChrona Posts: 296 ★
    In my book the problem isn't the matchmaking, but the system that you need to put together a lot of wins to be able to progress through the tiers. I know you can protect you streak by buying a shield, but those are expensive and you can only buy one from throphy tokens per week. That is what makes it frustrating for me.

    Either decrease the price for a shield or make it worth to grind BG even if you loose. Maybe give a free shield for every 10 lost matches.
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    ShiroiharaShiroihara Posts: 1,092 ★★★★
    SuperChrona said:

    In my book the problem isn't the matchmaking, but the system that you need to put together a lot of wins to be able to progress through the tiers. I know you can protect you streak by buying a shield, but those are expensive and you can only buy one from throphy tokens per week. That is what makes it frustrating for me.

    Either decrease the price for a shield or make it worth to grind BG even if you loose. Maybe give a free shield for every 10 lost matches.

    I would also advocate for something similar. I would not mind if they increased the number of victories needed, say starting at 5 for Bronze III, but a loss would not take away a point.
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    FrostGiantLordFrostGiantLord Posts: 1,619 ★★★★
    This has happened to me a couple of times. However, most of the time I'm the on getting matched with people who have only r4 5* (I have 2 6* r2 and 6 5* max out). There have been times, though, when I get matched against people with 6* r3's, and 10 or more 5* max outs
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    teradanyteradany Posts: 2
    I think that in this discussion It is less considered the fact that when you click to play in BG there will not be many who are clicking exactly at your instant and who belong to the same class (gold 1, diamond 2 ... ). In fact, you often have to wait and sometimes the battle cannot be done or you are associated with someone of a different class. So I don't think that the choice depends only on the argorithm. They can try to associate you with someone who is close in strength but if no one is there there is little you can do. Luck comes into play. How many players do you think play BG in the same 10/15 seconds in the same class?
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    MackeyMackey Posts: 1,552 ★★★★★
    edited December 2022
    Summoner 560 searches for a match at 21:10
    Summoner 2245 searches for a match at 21:10
    They match together.

    It should be that simple but the fact they won't say any details basically confirms that this isn't the case and they're still using some form of measurement in the matchmaking process.
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