Feels like kabam expects players to make zero mistakes for any progress

SkyeBerry

Like the title says. I've been stuck on 5.1.6 for about a month now, and it's genuinely so stupid. How does kabam expect the average player to make any progress when the first iron man in the quest, takes a 5/50 knull to less than 50% health in a single 5 hit combo. So I make a single mistake, get hit once, and there's a 80% chance from there that I'm all of a sudden at 44% health OR LESS if he had a special saved too, off of only ONE mistake. Then at that point it's better to just restart the whole quest, if that happens 6 fights in? I've just wasted most of my energy. Kabam seems to want people to achieve UC as the kind of baseline for unlocking main content, yet 4* characters literally won't get the average player to UC, and 5*s only really start coming in after you already have UC anyways.

Tldr, the balance in act 5 is abysmal for your average player, despite the best content being locked behind UC.

Shiroihara

Plenty of players have done that content without 5/50 champions. I think I became uncollected with just a rank 3 in my team and I can assure you I’m not blessed with amazing skill.
Difficult to say from your post but I’d suggest better researching and planning.
FYI, the little or no error policy is only going to get more pronounced as you progress.

Gogeta91199

Mate when act 5 was released ,everyone used to do it with 4*s and even 3*s; 5*s were almost non existent at that time, now players use 6* in these contents and still complain. This is not a roster issue but more of a skill and planning issue.
If I remember correctly this is the brute force and kinetic instigator quest… post your roster here and people can help you plan your path but the skills are all yours so you gotta improve on that aspect yourself

TheSaith

Read nodes and practice. And most important don't stress, games are meant to be refreshments and we are just stressing like hell ?? I became caviler last month and I've been playing like forever i took break 3 times (6 to 12 months) and just keep on practicing i still struggle intercepting i am good with Parry now (bcz of Corvus my MVP and favorite) choose your fav champion and practice you will get good.

SkyeBerry

Gogeta91199 said:

Mate when act 5 was released ,everyone used to do it with 4*s and even 3*s; 5*s were almost non existent at that time, now players use 6* in these contents and still complain. This is not a roster issue but more of a skill and planning issue.
If I remember correctly this is the brute force and kinetic instigator quest… post your roster here and people can help you plan your path but the skills are all yours so you gotta improve on that aspect yourself

I have posted my roster and such, recently in a tips discussion, I've gotten zero help so far

SkyeBerry

Gogeta91199 said:

Mate when act 5 was released ,everyone used to do it with 4*s and even 3*s; 5*s were almost non existent at that time, now players use 6* in these contents and still complain. This is not a roster issue but more of a skill and planning issue.
If I remember correctly this is the brute force and kinetic instigator quest… post your roster here and people can help you plan your path but the skills are all yours so you gotta improve on that aspect yourself

"Mate" when you're getting one mistake ruining your chances at beating an entire quest, that's just bad game design

Demonzfyre

There are these things in the game called Health Potions and Revives. Here is what they do-
Health Potions- These allow you to add missing health back to your attackers if they take any damage during a figh and end the fight with less health than they began with.

Revives- These allow you to revive either a single champion or a up to a full team of champions who have been knocked out.

Both of these are available for free in the game during quests.

In all seriousness, you're going through what everyone has gone through. You're going to take some damage and at times, it will feel like the game is against you. When Act 5 was the pinnacle of available content, 4*'s were the meta and 5*'s were rare. Act 5 can be done with 5/50 4*'s or you could take a break from story content and do the side quest to build up shards to open more crystals. Just wait until you get to the Bane path in act 5.

SkyeBerry

Demonzfyre said:

There are these things in the game called Health Potions and Revives. Here is what they do-
Health Potions- These allow you to add missing health back to your attackers if they take any damage during a figh and end the fight with less health than they began with.

Revives- These allow you to revive either a single champion or a up to a full team of champions who have been knocked out.

Both of these are available for free in the game during quests.

In all seriousness, you're going through what everyone has gone through. You're going to take some damage and at times, it will feel like the game is against you. When Act 5 was the pinnacle of available content, 4*'s were the meta and 5*'s were rare. Act 5 can be done with 5/50 4*'s or you could take a break from story content and do the side quest to build up shards to open more crystals. Just wait until you get to the Bane path in act 5.

I've already done the side quest as much as I can, I know about OG act 5 I was there, it's gotten worse in terms of the damage you take. When act 5 first came out on my OG account my 5/50s weren't taking over 50% in a single combo. Sure maybe different champions, but still, zero reason for a single mistake to cost me over 50% health. I see ppl doing way harder content and surviving more than 2 combos easily. And again this isn't about act 5 being pinnacle content anymore anyways, this is about how kabam locks all the best content behind UC, and then has made conquerer level content KO you with 2 mistakes. The fact players are still struggling even with 6*s should probably be a sign that act 5 is abysmally balanced. Finally I really don't appreciate the sarcastic BS of potions and revives, I use potions and revives, I grind for potions and revives, your assumption was purely rude and hostile.

SkyeBerry

"you're going to take some damage" yeah that's my point, taking damage once shouldn't take me below 50% health

SkyeBerry

Hitting the disagree button, as a top level players means nothing btw, you don't know how it is to be a newer player anymore and reading some of these forum posts really proves it. "Just use X champ" as if everyone has that champ lmao. "Just dupe x" as if we can dupe whoever we want whenever we want. "Just use X synergy" again as if everyone has every champion.

TheLightBringer

This isn't a mortal kombat game where flawless victory is smth so hard, with more practice on 2 essential things like parry and dexterity you will be able to finish most fights without losing health, which isn't a hard thing considering how many players can do

Worknprogress

SkyeBerry said:

Hitting the disagree button, as a top level players means nothing btw, you don't know how it is to be a newer player anymore and reading some of these forum posts really proves it. "Just use X champ" as if everyone has that champ lmao. "Just dupe x" as if we can dupe whoever we want whenever we want. "Just use X synergy" again as if everyone has every champion.

It's infinitely easier being a new player getting through things like Act 5. When I was doing Act 5 when it was actually the top level content at the time, I was doing it with R4 4* Agent Venom and Gamora as two of my top champs.

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Worknprogress

Actually found an old roster pic from when I was working on Act 5 exploration. Looks like AV had gotten to R5 by then and a few more champs had been ranked. Still, in comparison to having new champs like Knull available, it should be pretty clear that players of today have it significantly easier

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Squirrelguy

For the record, I get the annoyance. Maybe this won’t all be helpful, but hopefully some of it will.

1. I know losing half health to one mistake seems bad, but it doesn’t really mean you can’t finish the quest. Beyond health potions and revives (which you should most definitely stash up for important content like story progression), chaps don’t hit any weaker at lower health and are still totally fine for the rest of the quest. Champions like Knull actually have self-healing mechanics that can mitigate damage like this. It seems like your real problem (which I know you mention, but I’ll specify) is not getting hit.

2. To that point, I think ever since I made it to the OG Act 6, I just expect to die any time I get hit in the face. It’s not always true, and many champions have mechanics that can counter that (unstoppable allowing you to block mid-combo or retaliate, invincibility, phasing, regen, etc) but as you get beyond Act 5 the content continues to ramp up in attack and there is only so far your champions can grow. It may seem like Uncollected is really difficult right now, but the AI actually tends to get more aggressive in more difficult content, and Kabam has actually tended to make things easier and more achievable over time. Much of that has to do with the bandwidth of their system, simplifying things for newer players, making champions more accessible, etc. That being said, you probably fall into the category of players that has gotten past the easier beginner portion and has done well enough that you’ve not hit a roadblock yet. This might be where you need to just sit down and practice dex-ing, intercepting, parrying, and dodging special attacks until you can reliably never get hit fighting iron man (outside of lag/bugs/exhaustion). It may not be the most fun process, but occasionally watching a tutorial YouTube vid from Dave or something can help beef up your base gameplay abilities.

3. You make the point that “if players struggle in Act 5 with 6* champs, maybe that’s a sign that Act 5 is abysmally balanced”….. maybe the sun being so hot is the reason why I dislike blue cheese. It’s possible, but not the most likely explanation. The most likely explanation is that those players have one of many issues. Maybe they don’t have high enough skill at basic gameplay motions/moves or timing. Maybe they don’t understand everything about class advantage/disadvantage, or champions specifically built to counter others (Magneto vs any metal tagged champ). Maybe they don’t know about useful synergies such and Nick Fury and Antman/Quake where you get three lifeline evade charges that will save your butt if you make a variety of mistakes throughout the fight (best synergy in-game that can apply to all champs but Nick) and gives Heroes +10% attack. I dont mean to be mean, but Iron Man is (purposely kept that way by Kabam too) one of the most easy and straightforward fights in the game unless on a crazy mode combo.

4. You make the point in another post that you can almost do the quest revive-less…. Is that the case, or not? It seems like from this post that you’re still struggling a lot if losing half health in the middle of a quest can wreck your chances of finishing it.

5. “Hitting the disagree button, as a top level players means nothing btw, you don't know how it is to be a newer player anymore and reading some of these forum posts really proves it. "Just use X champ" as if everyone has that champ lmao. "Just dupe x" as if we can dupe whoever we want whenever we want. "Just use X synergy" again as if everyone has every champion.”
Top level players by definition have gone through the stage of beginner player. They may not currently be a lower level, but that doesn’t erase the experience from their minds, so maybe the issue is with your understanding of their suggestion. You aren’t even quoting someone in this post with your quotes, but assuming you’re quoting the guy who said “use Herc, awaken Herc, sig Herc up, move on”, you do actually have that champ, and he was literally given to every player at one point, so that’s not something to lmao at. You can in fact dupe whoever you want with a generic awakening gem. 4* gems are not the most difficult thing to get nowadays. “Just use x synergy” could possibly be annoying, but unless you show someone your entire roster, we’re just making guesses at what will be most helpful. You can also then target that specific champ in a number of ways.

6. As for “BS suggestions of potions and revives”, you’ve built this content up to be impossibly difficult and abysmally balanced when you literally should be able to make it through Act 7 content with 4*s if you have enough revives. You make it seem as though quitting the quest is the best option when you take damage instead of just popping a revive and hopping back in. Health potions and revives is a valid suggestion and what most players use to get through tough content, and is literally the in-built system to help you with fights that are so punishing.

7. How many hits do you think your character should be able to take to still make Uncollected worth anything as a title? Have you seen people fight the Collector? Do you like challenging fights, or content that pushes you to grow in skill? If you don’t like single mistakes KOing your character, most of the game past Act 5 is gonna infuriate you. Act 6 content pre-nerf could kill you by just hitting into your block a couple times, but usually people were using R3-4 5* champs for that, or R1 6*, so it wasn’t altogether beyond what you have now.

8. I’ll be honest, I almost never get in the suggestions and tips section of the forums, and anything not in general discussion typically goes unanswered or gets way less attention. It would make sense to ask for tips there, but thats probably a big reason why a thread there doesn’t get much feedback.

This may have been a whole Ted talk, but I really would like to give direct advice and try to help you progress. Tag me and ask me any specific questions if you want. You’ll definitely get forums trolls from time to time, but if your post isn’t mostly a rant, you should get some decent advice. Occasionally endgame players know a few things and sometimes things are built the way they are for a reason.

Hopefully this was semi-helpful and not too ramble-y.

ThePharcide

According to your other posts, you have a 4* QS in your roster. I took mine to r3 and toasted IM with whiplash. Took me about 2 mins.

SkyeBerry

Worknprogress said:

Actually found an old roster pic from when I was working on Act 5 exploration. Looks like AV had gotten to R5 by then and a few more champs had been ranked. Still, in comparison to having new champs like Knull available, it should be pretty clear that players of today have it significantly easier

Literally higher PI on your 4* champs than my rank 3 5*s, this is what I mean when I say top level players literally have no idea of the new player experience.

FiiNCH

SkyeBerry said:

Hitting the disagree button, as a top level players means nothing btw, you don't know how it is to be a newer player anymore and reading some of these forum posts really proves it. "Just use X champ" as if everyone has that champ lmao. "Just dupe x" as if we can dupe whoever we want whenever we want. "Just use X synergy" again as if everyone has every champion.

This was a silly comment.

Early game acts for newer players are infinitely easier than they were when initially released.

I initially wanted to offer you help, but after reading some of your comments, I’m don’t really want to now.

Giantwalrus56

Since you're using PI as your reference, your masteries might be a contributing factor. That might be worth sharing for people to give suggestions. I can't speak for all veterans or "top level players" but I remember being where you are, & the sense of accomplishment once I got past it

Worknprogress

SkyeBerry said:

Worknprogress said:

Actually found an old roster pic from when I was working on Act 5 exploration. Looks like AV had gotten to R5 by then and a few more champs had been ranked. Still, in comparison to having new champs like Knull available, it should be pretty clear that players of today have it significantly easier

Literally higher PI on your 4* champs than my rank 3 5*s, this is what I mean when I say top level players literally have no idea of the new player experience.

Something older players used to do that newer players don't feel they need to is, invest in masteries. Also things like sig level affect PI. PI is a completely irrelevant number.

You're seriously trying to say new players, with access to 2018-2023 champs and even getting 6*s let alone regular 5*s, have it harder than older players doing the same exact content with 2015-2017 champs basically only using 4*s and maybe a 5* or two? 😂

Worknprogress

Dude seriously bringing up PI when 3 of the top 6 champs shown are Rogue, AV, and Cosmic Spidey 🤣🤣🤣🤣

Also there's a green highlight around the name tag up top so chances are I was even boosted there. Could have been an XP boost. Who knows? It was 6 years ago

SkyeBerry

Squirrelguy said:

For the record, I get the annoyance. Maybe this won’t all be helpful, but hopefully some of it will.

1. I know losing half health to one mistake seems bad, but it doesn’t really mean you can’t finish the quest. Beyond health potions and revives (which you should most definitely stash up for important content like story progression), chaps don’t hit any weaker at lower health and are still totally fine for the rest of the quest. Champions like Knull actually have self-healing mechanics that can mitigate damage like this. It seems like your real problem (which I know you mention, but I’ll specify) is not getting hit.

2. To that point, I think ever since I made it to the OG Act 6, I just expect to die any time I get hit in the face. It’s not always true, and many champions have mechanics that can counter that (unstoppable allowing you to block mid-combo or retaliate, invincibility, phasing, regen, etc) but as you get beyond Act 5 the content continues to ramp up in attack and there is only so far your champions can grow. It may seem like Uncollected is really difficult right now, but the AI actually tends to get more aggressive in more difficult content, and Kabam has actually tended to make things easier and more achievable over time. Much of that has to do with the bandwidth of their system, simplifying things for newer players, making champions more accessible, etc. That being said, you probably fall into the category of players that has gotten past the easier beginner portion and has done well enough that you’ve not hit a roadblock yet. This might be where you need to just sit down and practice dex-ing, intercepting, parrying, and dodging special attacks until you can reliably never get hit fighting iron man (outside of lag/bugs/exhaustion). It may not be the most fun process, but occasionally watching a tutorial YouTube vid from Dave or something can help beef up your base gameplay abilities.

3. You make the point that “if players struggle in Act 5 with 6* champs, maybe that’s a sign that Act 5 is abysmally balanced”….. maybe the sun being so hot is the reason why I dislike blue cheese. It’s possible, but not the most likely explanation. The most likely explanation is that those players have one of many issues. Maybe they don’t have high enough skill at basic gameplay motions/moves or timing. Maybe they don’t understand everything about class advantage/disadvantage, or champions specifically built to counter others (Magneto vs any metal tagged champ). Maybe they don’t know about useful synergies such and Nick Fury and Antman/Quake where you get three lifeline evade charges that will save your butt if you make a variety of mistakes throughout the fight (best synergy in-game that can apply to all champs but Nick) and gives Heroes +10% attack. I dont mean to be mean, but Iron Man is (purposely kept that way by Kabam too) one of the most easy and straightforward fights in the game unless on a crazy mode combo.

4. You make the point in another post that you can almost do the quest revive-less…. Is that the case, or not? It seems like from this post that you’re still struggling a lot if losing half health in the middle of a quest can wreck your chances of finishing it.

5. “Hitting the disagree button, as a top level players means nothing btw, you don't know how it is to be a newer player anymore and reading some of these forum posts really proves it. "Just use X champ" as if everyone has that champ lmao. "Just dupe x" as if we can dupe whoever we want whenever we want. "Just use X synergy" again as if everyone has every champion.”
Top level players by definition have gone through the stage of beginner player. They may not currently be a lower level, but that doesn’t erase the experience from their minds, so maybe the issue is with your understanding of their suggestion. You aren’t even quoting someone in this post with your quotes, but assuming you’re quoting the guy who said “use Herc, awaken Herc, sig Herc up, move on”, you do actually have that champ, and he was literally given to every player at one point, so that’s not something to lmao at. You can in fact dupe whoever you want with a generic awakening gem. 4* gems are not the most difficult thing to get nowadays. “Just use x synergy” could possibly be annoying, but unless you show someone your entire roster, we’re just making guesses at what will be most helpful. You can also then target that specific champ in a number of ways.

6. As for “BS suggestions of potions and revives”, you’ve built this content up to be impossibly difficult and abysmally balanced when you literally should be able to make it through Act 7 content with 4*s if you have enough revives. You make it seem as though quitting the quest is the best option when you take damage instead of just popping a revive and hopping back in. Health potions and revives is a valid suggestion and what most players use to get through tough content, and is literally the in-built system to help you with fights that are so punishing.

7. How many hits do you think your character should be able to take to still make Uncollected worth anything as a title? Have you seen people fight the Collector? Do you like challenging fights, or content that pushes you to grow in skill? If you don’t like single mistakes KOing your character, most of the game past Act 5 is gonna infuriate you. Act 6 content pre-nerf could kill you by just hitting into your block a couple times, but usually people were using R3-4 5* champs for that, or R1 6*, so it wasn’t altogether beyond what you have now.

8. I’ll be honest, I almost never get in the suggestions and tips section of the forums, and anything not in general discussion typically goes unanswered or gets way less attention. It would make sense to ask for tips there, but thats probably a big reason why a thread there doesn’t get much feedback.

This may have been a whole Ted talk, but I really would like to give direct advice and try to help you progress. Tag me and ask me any specific questions if you want. You’ll definitely get forums trolls from time to time, but if your post isn’t mostly a rant, you should get some decent advice. Occasionally endgame players know a few things and sometimes things are built the way they are for a reason.

Hopefully this was semi-helpful and not too ramble-y.

Yeah fantastic reply, really well thought out. I appreciate this 100% please take anything I didn't directly reply to, as something I accept and am willing to think about

1. Yeah kind of, I mean it's not like input issues have anything to do with my trouble... Right? >.>
2. Just because you're used to it, doesn't make it not bad game design tbh
3.This brings back the "high level players don't get new players" issue I know about synergies that would help me obliterate this quest, I just don't have the champions
4. I can almost do it revive-less, and then I go in again and things like input issues get me killed in two combos. I can parry consistently until it just randomly doesn't block at all, and I'm moving back and forth enough to use dex effectively, again when it actually reads my input
5. See point 3 and remember that not every player is around when free champs are given out
6. Go ahead and make the suggestion, just don't be a sarcastic reject about it
7. More than 2, maybe at least what I see higher star champs can take in content made for them (like 4 combos for 6*s against 80k PI enemies) and ideally more hits than a 6* will be able to take in content made for 6*s because this is supposed to be easier than that content?
8. Fair enough, just kind of silly to be telling me to post a thread about something I've already posted

SkyeBerry

Worknprogress said:

SkyeBerry said:

Worknprogress said:

Actually found an old roster pic from when I was working on Act 5 exploration. Looks like AV had gotten to R5 by then and a few more champs had been ranked. Still, in comparison to having new champs like Knull available, it should be pretty clear that players of today have it significantly easier

Literally higher PI on your 4* champs than my rank 3 5*s, this is what I mean when I say top level players literally have no idea of the new player experience.

Something older players used to do that newer players don't feel they need to is, invest in masteries. Also things like sig level affect PI. PI is a completely irrelevant number.

You're seriously trying to say new players, with access to 2018-2023 champs and even getting 6*s let alone regular 5*s, have it harder than older players doing the same exact content with 2015-2017 champs basically only using 4*s and maybe a 5* or two? 😂

I am investing in masteries, just more proof that you older players have zero idea of the new player experience

SkyeBerry

Worknprogress said:

Dude seriously bringing up PI when 3 of the top 6 champs shown are Rogue, AV, and Cosmic Spidey 🤣🤣🤣🤣

Also there's a green highlight around the name tag up top so chances are I was even boosted there. Could have been an XP boost. Who knows? It was 6 years ago

More evidence you have zero idea of the new player experience... What is this even supposed to mean?

Giantwalrus56

SkyeBerry said:

Flipp said:

OP’s mind is made up and only taking the stance that it is not fair.

More proof you people don't care about helping, just feeling superior

Superiority has nothing to do with it. Share your masteries, let us know which champions you're using regularly. That way suggestions can be offered. Responding to messages in a passive aggressive way, isn't going to warrant much sympathy

Flipp

People progress through the game faster now a days and I’m some cases their skill is not up to speed nor do they have the knowledge.

SkyeBerry

Giantwalrus56 said:

SkyeBerry said:

Flipp said:

OP’s mind is made up and only taking the stance that it is not fair.

More proof you people don't care about helping, just feeling superior

Superiority has nothing to do with it. Share your masteries, let us know which champions you're using regularly. That way suggestions can be offered. Responding to messages in a passive aggressive way, isn't going to warrant much sympathy

I'm responding that way because I'm getting frustrated, most people in this thread haven't been trying to help, just being rude and calling me bad. Up until squirrel guy I only had one semi helpful comment and it was literally just "practice at game to get better"

SkyeBerry

Flipp said:

People progress through the game faster now a days and I’m some cases their skill is not up to speed nor do they have the knowledge.

That's a cool opinion, but does absolutely nothing to help or give advice

Flipp

Practice and learn more - that is the advice

FiiNCH

SkyeBerry said:

FiiNCH said:

SkyeBerry said:

FiiNCH said:

Worknprogress said:

Dude seriously bringing up PI when 3 of the top 6 champs shown are Rogue, AV, and Cosmic Spidey 🤣🤣🤣🤣

I mean looking at OP’a responses, in all likelihood you’re arguing with a child/teenager

So you never wanted to help, you just wanted to be rude, thanks

Looking at your responses so far why would I bother? You just want me to tell you life’s not fair and this game is set up against you.

Why would I respond politely to people not trying to help just being rude calling me bad at the game, on a thread where I'm asking for help? Use your brain man

Your post didn’t ask any specific questions or for any help though, you were just whinging. Then we told you it’s much easier now than when the content originally launched and now you’re having a tantrum telling us all ‘we don’t know what it’s like being a new player’.

Not really the best way to seek help in my opinion…