Let's please not start spreading rumours. First, we have not decided what a change to Potions would look like. We never said the words "Percentage based," though that is a possibility. Let's not set expectations of our own because that only leads to disappointment when those expectations are not met.
Re-balancing what is arguably one of the largest areas of the game is not easy, and it takes time. Potions touch so much of the game, and we need to spend time to analyze Data and explore options.
Yet it haven't been touched since the beginning, if not counting the inventory limit
Re-balancing what is arguably one of the largest areas of the game is not easy, and it takes time.
Out of curiosity, how many months went into assessing and implementing the Apothecary?
A relatively short time, but its overall effect is conservative as well. When you're talking about major changes, they take longer.
Source?
You need a source to support the idea that larger changes take longer to implement? Source is common sense. When you're talking about making significant changes to the overall Potions system, that spreads throughout all content in the game that Potions are used. It doesn't take a PhD to understand why that isn't something that is done in a heartbeat. You have to consider many things, and the effects of what you implement. That affects everything from the internal economy to the content that exists and content they will develop.
Re-balancing what is arguably one of the largest areas of the game is not easy, and it takes time.
Out of curiosity, how many months went into assessing and implementing the Apothecary?
A relatively short time, but its overall effect is conservative as well. When you're talking about major changes, they take longer.
Source?
You need a source to support the idea that larger changes take longer to implement? Source is common sense. When you're talking about making significant changes to the overall Potions system, that spreads throughout all content in the game that Potions are used. It doesn't take a PhD to understand why that isn't something that is done in a heartbeat. You have to consider many things, and the effects of what you implement. That affects everything from the internal economy to the content that exists and content they will develop.
And who are you to say the apothecary wasn’t a large implementation in the game?🧐 If you can argue health potions are a major part of the economy and thus need considerable time because it’s a “significant change” then how tf isn’t the revive economy ( a more premium item) not a significant change? You once again don’t know what you’re talking about lmaooo the eggplant needs to be put down
I said it was conservative. It certainly has a significant cumulative effect, when you consider the number of Revs it gives over time. It's not as significant a change as an overhaul to the system.
Re-balancing what is arguably one of the largest areas of the game is not easy, and it takes time.
Out of curiosity, how many months went into assessing and implementing the Apothecary?
A relatively short time, but its overall effect is conservative as well. When you're talking about major changes, they take longer.
Source?
You need a source to support the idea that larger changes take longer to implement? Source is common sense. When you're talking about making significant changes to the overall Potions system, that spreads throughout all content in the game that Potions are used. It doesn't take a PhD to understand why that isn't something that is done in a heartbeat. You have to consider many things, and the effects of what you implement. That affects everything from the internal economy to the content that exists and content they will develop.
No i need a source for apothecary required a short time. Although now that i look at it, you said 'relatively short time' which is unhelpful and not the answer the questioner was looking for.
Re-balancing what is arguably one of the largest areas of the game is not easy, and it takes time.
Out of curiosity, how many months went into assessing and implementing the Apothecary?
A relatively short time, but its overall effect is conservative as well. When you're talking about major changes, they take longer.
Source?
You need a source to support the idea that larger changes take longer to implement? Source is common sense. When you're talking about making significant changes to the overall Potions system, that spreads throughout all content in the game that Potions are used. It doesn't take a PhD to understand why that isn't something that is done in a heartbeat. You have to consider many things, and the effects of what you implement. That affects everything from the internal economy to the content that exists and content they will develop.
No i need a source for apothecary required a short time. Although now that i look at it, you said 'relatively short time' which is unhelpful and not the answer the questioner was looking for.
Given the time they said they noticed the numbers being great and the implementation of the Apothecary, that much is pretty logical. What's also not helpful is looking for arguments where there are none.
Re-balancing what is arguably one of the largest areas of the game is not easy, and it takes time.
Out of curiosity, how many months went into assessing and implementing the Apothecary?
A relatively short time, but its overall effect is conservative as well. When you're talking about major changes, they take longer.
Source?
You need a source to support the idea that larger changes take longer to implement? Source is common sense. When you're talking about making significant changes to the overall Potions system, that spreads throughout all content in the game that Potions are used. It doesn't take a PhD to understand why that isn't something that is done in a heartbeat. You have to consider many things, and the effects of what you implement. That affects everything from the internal economy to the content that exists and content they will develop.
No i need a source for apothecary required a short time. Although now that i look at it, you said 'relatively short time' which is unhelpful and not the answer the questioner was looking for.
Given the time they said they noticed the numbers being great and the implementation of the Apothecary, that much is pretty logical. What's also not helpful is looking for arguments where there are none.
In my short time spent on this game's forums, I've come to the conclusion that presumably the majority of this player base are either kids or younger adults that don't really know how a business or game dev works. So if you're remotely on Kabam's side = you're wrong. If you present logic = arguments without logical grounding start popping up.
I'm not necessarily saying you're right, you're obviously just giving your opinion based on the logic/knowledge on hand. But you make a better case than everyone else just typing nonsense.
Re-balancing what is arguably one of the largest areas of the game is not easy, and it takes time.
Out of curiosity, how many months went into assessing and implementing the Apothecary?
Well, that escalated quickly. Allow me to refine my question and provide additional clarification on the ask:
The implementation of the apothecary seemed to be a sudden change to the game that was not necessarily well thought out, given the community backlash. The revive economy is/was (arguably) a larger area of the game than the potion economy is.
As asked, I'm curious how long the apothecary was worked on, and am curious if the reworking of the potion system will receive an equal amount of attention, a less amount of time, or a greater amount of time than the apothecary did.
Re-balancing what is arguably one of the largest areas of the game is not easy, and it takes time.
Out of curiosity, how many months went into assessing and implementing the Apothecary?
Well, that escalated quickly. Allow me to refine my question and provide additional clarification on the ask:
The implementation of the apothecary seemed to be a sudden change to the game that was not necessarily well thought out, given the community backlash. The revive economy is/was (arguably) a larger area of the game than the potion economy was.
As asked, I'm curious how long the apothecary was worked on, and am curious if the reworking of the potion system will receive an equal amount of attention, a less amount of time, or a greater amount of time than the apothecary did.
The simple point being missed here is the apothecary/revive rework was purely a rework to the economy of the items, not the items to themselves. Kabam did not have to do research on the effect of changing percentages or how the items themselves worked, they just looked at numbers of them coming into the game and based their changes on that.
PURELY SPECULATING ON KABAM'S POST we can conclude that the change to potions is more than just a change to the economy, but a change to potions themselves which means changing an entire system/foundation of the game - much more than what was done with apothecary.
I would assume, based on the same logic someone else put forth of how quickly Kabam went from "we noticed how many revives were being farmed" to "here's the apothecary" that it likely did not take very long, they probably just reused a standard model of daily quests and put revive rewards in them. The potion rework will likely take much longer.
Re-balancing what is arguably one of the largest areas of the game is not easy, and it takes time.
Out of curiosity, how many months went into assessing and implementing the Apothecary?
Well, that escalated quickly. Allow me to refine my question and provide additional clarification on the ask:
The implementation of the apothecary seemed to be a sudden change to the game that was not necessarily well thought out, given the community backlash. The revive economy is/was (arguably) a larger area of the game than the potion economy was.
As asked, I'm curious how long the apothecary was worked on, and am curious if the reworking of the potion system will receive an equal amount of attention, a less amount of time, or a greater amount of time than the apothecary did.
The simple point being missed here is the apothecary/revive rework was purely a rework to the economy of the items, not the items to themselves. Kabam did not have to do research on the effect of changing percentages or how the items themselves worked, they just looked at numbers of them coming into the game and based their changes on that.
This is a fair point and one I admittedly did not consider. Do you feel that revives should have also received a rework to the items themselves?
Re-balancing what is arguably one of the largest areas of the game is not easy, and it takes time.
Out of curiosity, how many months went into assessing and implementing the Apothecary?
Well, that escalated quickly. Allow me to refine my question and provide additional clarification on the ask:
The implementation of the apothecary seemed to be a sudden change to the game that was not necessarily well thought out, given the community backlash. The revive economy is/was (arguably) a larger area of the game than the potion economy was.
As asked, I'm curious how long the apothecary was worked on, and am curious if the reworking of the potion system will receive an equal amount of attention, a less amount of time, or a greater amount of time than the apothecary did.
The simple point being missed here is the apothecary/revive rework was purely a rework to the economy of the items, not the items to themselves. Kabam did not have to do research on the effect of changing percentages or how the items themselves worked, they just looked at numbers of them coming into the game and based their changes on that.
This is a fair point and one I admittedly did not consider. Do you feel that revives should have also received a rework to the items themselves?
No not really, I think percentage based as well as the percentages themselves are fine. I hope their changes to potions included making them percentage based as it essentially future proofs them - but I also think they have to be careful with percentage based potions as that can very quickly cater to higher end players using bigger health pool champions if they're priced as such.
Imagine paying the same for a potion that heals 1k health vs 20k health. That's the danger in percentage based potions and likely a big reason it will take the length of time it does for them to sort out a solution that appeases everyone.
Re-balancing what is arguably one of the largest areas of the game is not easy, and it takes time.
Out of curiosity, how many months went into assessing and implementing the Apothecary?
Well, that escalated quickly. Allow me to refine my question and provide additional clarification on the ask:
The implementation of the apothecary seemed to be a sudden change to the game that was not necessarily well thought out, given the community backlash. The revive economy is/was (arguably) a larger area of the game than the potion economy was.
As asked, I'm curious how long the apothecary was worked on, and am curious if the reworking of the potion system will receive an equal amount of attention, a less amount of time, or a greater amount of time than the apothecary did.
The simple point being missed here is the apothecary/revive rework was purely a rework to the economy of the items, not the items to themselves. Kabam did not have to do research on the effect of changing percentages or how the items themselves worked, they just looked at numbers of them coming into the game and based their changes on that.
This is a fair point and one I admittedly did not consider. Do you feel that revives should have also received a rework to the items themselves?
No not really, I think percentage based as well as the percentages themselves are fine. I hope their changes to potions included making them percentage based as it essentially future proofs them - but I also think they have to be careful with percentage based potions as that can very quickly cater to higher end players using bigger health pool champions if they're priced as such.
Imagine paying the same for a potion that heals 1k health vs 20k health. That's the danger in percentage based potions and likely a big reason it will take the length of time it does for them to sort out a solution that appeases everyone.
For conversation purposes, regular revives (story, event, daily, and side quest modes) are percentage based. Alliance quest and incursions revives are still HP based.
Re-balancing what is arguably one of the largest areas of the game is not easy, and it takes time.
Out of curiosity, how many months went into assessing and implementing the Apothecary?
Well, that escalated quickly. Allow me to refine my question and provide additional clarification on the ask:
The implementation of the apothecary seemed to be a sudden change to the game that was not necessarily well thought out, given the community backlash. The revive economy is/was (arguably) a larger area of the game than the potion economy was.
As asked, I'm curious how long the apothecary was worked on, and am curious if the reworking of the potion system will receive an equal amount of attention, a less amount of time, or a greater amount of time than the apothecary did.
The simple point being missed here is the apothecary/revive rework was purely a rework to the economy of the items, not the items to themselves. Kabam did not have to do research on the effect of changing percentages or how the items themselves worked, they just looked at numbers of them coming into the game and based their changes on that.
This is a fair point and one I admittedly did not consider. Do you feel that revives should have also received a rework to the items themselves?
No not really, I think percentage based as well as the percentages themselves are fine. I hope their changes to potions included making them percentage based as it essentially future proofs them - but I also think they have to be careful with percentage based potions as that can very quickly cater to higher end players using bigger health pool champions if they're priced as such.
Imagine paying the same for a potion that heals 1k health vs 20k health. That's the danger in percentage based potions and likely a big reason it will take the length of time it does for them to sort out a solution that appeases everyone.
Not only that, the ultimate outcome of a percentage-based Pot is more Health per Rev/Pot. Now, I'm sure that's what people want, and it may or may not be time for it, but it automatically makes all content easier to complete. Which brings the difficulty in question.
Re-balancing what is arguably one of the largest areas of the game is not easy, and it takes time.
Out of curiosity, how many months went into assessing and implementing the Apothecary?
Well, that escalated quickly. Allow me to refine my question and provide additional clarification on the ask:
The implementation of the apothecary seemed to be a sudden change to the game that was not necessarily well thought out, given the community backlash. The revive economy is/was (arguably) a larger area of the game than the potion economy was.
As asked, I'm curious how long the apothecary was worked on, and am curious if the reworking of the potion system will receive an equal amount of attention, a less amount of time, or a greater amount of time than the apothecary did.
The simple point being missed here is the apothecary/revive rework was purely a rework to the economy of the items, not the items to themselves. Kabam did not have to do research on the effect of changing percentages or how the items themselves worked, they just looked at numbers of them coming into the game and based their changes on that.
This is a fair point and one I admittedly did not consider. Do you feel that revives should have also received a rework to the items themselves?
No not really, I think percentage based as well as the percentages themselves are fine. I hope their changes to potions included making them percentage based as it essentially future proofs them - but I also think they have to be careful with percentage based potions as that can very quickly cater to higher end players using bigger health pool champions if they're priced as such.
Imagine paying the same for a potion that heals 1k health vs 20k health. That's the danger in percentage based potions and likely a big reason it will take the length of time it does for them to sort out a solution that appeases everyone.
Not only that, the ultimate outcome of a percentage-based Pot is more Health per Rev/Pot. Now, I'm sure that's what people want, and it may or may not be time for it, but it automatically makes all content easier to complete. Which brings the difficulty in question.
I disagree with the difficulty thing. You're leaving out the economy aspect of the equation with that, which they've said is apart of the "overhaul" that they're doing. In my opinion it's well beyond time for more health per potion, we've had the same potions we've had since before six stars, and now we're moving into seven stars? You're (not you but in general) delusional if you think current health per potion is sufficient.
The entire idea behind both the revive and potion changes, according to Kabam, is with the thought of everest content in mind. So there isn't really a good way to speculate how difficulty will be impacted because we don't know the changes this will have on Kabam's end game design philosophy.
We need higher healing potions, that's not a question anymore. Whether the answer to that is percent based potions I have no idea.
Let's please not start spreading rumours. First, we have not decided what a change to Potions would look like. We never said the words "Percentage based," though that is a possibility. Let's not set expectations of our own because that only leads to disappointment when those expectations are not met.
Re-balancing what is arguably one of the largest areas of the game is not easy, and it takes time. Potions touch so much of the game, and we need to spend time to analyze Data and explore options.
If it is one of the largest areas of the game, why has it been so neglected for years and took one of the biggest backlashes to start updating?
Re-balancing what is arguably one of the largest areas of the game is not easy, and it takes time.
Out of curiosity, how many months went into assessing and implementing the Apothecary?
Well, that escalated quickly. Allow me to refine my question and provide additional clarification on the ask:
The implementation of the apothecary seemed to be a sudden change to the game that was not necessarily well thought out, given the community backlash. The revive economy is/was (arguably) a larger area of the game than the potion economy was.
As asked, I'm curious how long the apothecary was worked on, and am curious if the reworking of the potion system will receive an equal amount of attention, a less amount of time, or a greater amount of time than the apothecary did.
The simple point being missed here is the apothecary/revive rework was purely a rework to the economy of the items, not the items to themselves. Kabam did not have to do research on the effect of changing percentages or how the items themselves worked, they just looked at numbers of them coming into the game and based their changes on that.
This is a fair point and one I admittedly did not consider. Do you feel that revives should have also received a rework to the items themselves?
No not really, I think percentage based as well as the percentages themselves are fine. I hope their changes to potions included making them percentage based as it essentially future proofs them - but I also think they have to be careful with percentage based potions as that can very quickly cater to higher end players using bigger health pool champions if they're priced as such.
Imagine paying the same for a potion that heals 1k health vs 20k health. That's the danger in percentage based potions and likely a big reason it will take the length of time it does for them to sort out a solution that appeases everyone.
Not only that, the ultimate outcome of a percentage-based Pot is more Health per Rev/Pot. Now, I'm sure that's what people want, and it may or may not be time for it, but it automatically makes all content easier to complete. Which brings the difficulty in question.
I disagree with the difficulty thing. You're leaving out the economy aspect of the equation with that, which they've said is apart of the "overhaul" that they're doing. In my opinion it's well beyond time for more health per potion, we've had the same potions we've had since before six stars, and now we're moving into seven stars? You're (not you but in general) delusional if you think current health per potion is sufficient.
The entire idea behind both the revive and potion changes, according to Kabam, is with the thought of everest content in mind. So there isn't really a good way to speculate how difficulty will be impacted because we don't know the changes this will have on Kabam's end game design philosophy.
We need higher healing potions, that's not a question anymore. Whether the answer to that is percent based potions I have no idea.
Sure, I wasn't debating whether we need it or not. Just bringing light to the fact that it indirectly affects the ability for Players to complete content. That affects the goals.
Gonna try again in simpler terms…. I’m not sure why this is considered so complex. Progression gated content just needs to spawn potions for the champs that they are designed for. The entire economy doesn’t have to be reworked, there just needs to be an uptick in where L5/L6 potions can be earned in game and it doesn’t have to be in gross volumes either 5 scattered throughout EQ a month would do it.
Okay why has my comment been removed when it violated no terms of service or anything, yet someone here is allowed to argue with everyone ALL the time? I don’t get it!
Gonna try again in simpler terms…. I’m not sure why this is considered so complex. Progression gated content just needs to spawn potions for the champs that they are designed for. The entire economy doesn’t have to be reworked, there just needs to be an uptick in where L5/L6 potions can be earned in game and it doesn’t have to be in gross volumes either 5 scattered throughout EQ a month would do it.
That wouldn't do it though? Maybe (and that's a HUGE maybe) right this moment, yes that'd be a serviceable fix. But seven stars are on the way, six star R5s are going to slowly start really popping up and be regulars for questing. A few scattered 10k heals are going to do anything for that.
The entire idea with the overhaul is to fix, and preferably future proof to some extent, the system. Your "solution" would (at best) be a band aid for a couple of months, and realistically I don't think it'd even be that. So yeah, it's a bit more complicated than you want to give it credit for. This is why Kabam doesn't just listen to everything the community says, because takes like this exist.
Everything should be percentage based in the game. Revives, (not just the quest ones), potions and masteries. Every other "solution" just adds to the grinding part of the game, something that, supposedely, kabam doesn't really want to be happening that much. And the most ridiculous example is the "buy a Sigil health potion for 25 lvl 1 potions", even to get all these lvl ones you need to... I don't know, if you re TB and up, you need to grind 3.2.6 for revives maybe? Oh wait.
Gonna try again in simpler terms…. I’m not sure why this is considered so complex. Progression gated content just needs to spawn potions for the champs that they are designed for. The entire economy doesn’t have to be reworked, there just needs to be an uptick in where L5/L6 potions can be earned in game and it doesn’t have to be in gross volumes either 5 scattered throughout EQ a month would do it.
That wouldn't do it though? Maybe (and that's a HUGE maybe) right this moment, yes that'd be a serviceable fix. But seven stars are on the way, six star R5s are going to slowly start really popping up and be regulars for questing. A few scattered 10k heals are going to do anything for that.
The entire idea with the overhaul is to fix, and preferably future proof to some extent, the system. Your "solution" would (at best) be a band aid for a couple of months, and realistically I don't think it'd even be that. So yeah, it's a bit more complicated than you want to give it credit for. This is why Kabam doesn't just listen to everything the community says, because takes like this exist.
It would if they create L7 pots for 7stars and those are made available through playing content designed for them
Gonna try again in simpler terms…. I’m not sure why this is considered so complex. Progression gated content just needs to spawn potions for the champs that they are designed for. The entire economy doesn’t have to be reworked, there just needs to be an uptick in where L5/L6 potions can be earned in game and it doesn’t have to be in gross volumes either 5 scattered throughout EQ a month would do it.
That wouldn't do it though? Maybe (and that's a HUGE maybe) right this moment, yes that'd be a serviceable fix. But seven stars are on the way, six star R5s are going to slowly start really popping up and be regulars for questing. A few scattered 10k heals are going to do anything for that.
The entire idea with the overhaul is to fix, and preferably future proof to some extent, the system. Your "solution" would (at best) be a band aid for a couple of months, and realistically I don't think it'd even be that. So yeah, it's a bit more complicated than you want to give it credit for. This is why Kabam doesn't just listen to everything the community says, because takes like this exist.
It would if they create L7 pots for 7stars and those are made available through playing content designed for them
And how do you balance L7 potions around being purchasable? What is the right cost for something that might be incredibly OP to something lower than a 7star. Maybe the solution is making it only usable for 7stars, but then do L5s or L6s need to only be usable by 6 stars? What if whatever additional mechanic 7stars have as attackers changes how potions might effect them?
You’re trying to simplify something that isn’t simple. To my point earlier, people that have no idea how game development works trying to give solutions to game developers. Community insight is extremely helpful, but people that try to act like Kabam is stupid because they don’t just have an obvious solution is exhausting. You only think it’s obvious because you only see what you want to see.
Gonna try again in simpler terms…. I’m not sure why this is considered so complex. Progression gated content just needs to spawn potions for the champs that they are designed for. The entire economy doesn’t have to be reworked, there just needs to be an uptick in where L5/L6 potions can be earned in game and it doesn’t have to be in gross volumes either 5 scattered throughout EQ a month would do it.
That wouldn't do it though? Maybe (and that's a HUGE maybe) right this moment, yes that'd be a serviceable fix. But seven stars are on the way, six star R5s are going to slowly start really popping up and be regulars for questing. A few scattered 10k heals are going to do anything for that.
The entire idea with the overhaul is to fix, and preferably future proof to some extent, the system. Your "solution" would (at best) be a band aid for a couple of months, and realistically I don't think it'd even be that. So yeah, it's a bit more complicated than you want to give it credit for. This is why Kabam doesn't just listen to everything the community says, because takes like this exist.
It would if they create L7 pots for 7stars and those are made available through playing content designed for them
And how do you balance L7 potions around being purchasable? What is the right cost for something that might be incredibly OP to something lower than a 7star. Maybe the solution is making it only usable for 7stars, but then do L5s or L6s need to only be usable by 6 stars? What if whatever additional mechanic 7stars have as attackers changes how potions might effect them?
You’re trying to simplify something that isn’t simple. To my point earlier, people that have no idea how game development works trying to give solutions to game developers. Community insight is extremely helpful, but people that try to act like Kabam is stupid because they don’t just have an obvious solution is exhausting. You only think it’s obvious because you only see what you want to see.
Or you only make the items available with certain progression tiers tied to Champion Rarity based on the content those champions are designed for.
Again, this has been neglected forever, but I overthinking it doesn’t make it more complicated it just makes “perfect” the enemy of good. Their initial potion to champ health pool design seems pretty scalable the problem, again is availability of these items which their are definitely levers than could be considered on how to makes them appropriately available based on progression (just like EQ)
Gonna try again in simpler terms…. I’m not sure why this is considered so complex. Progression gated content just needs to spawn potions for the champs that they are designed for. The entire economy doesn’t have to be reworked, there just needs to be an uptick in where L5/L6 potions can be earned in game and it doesn’t have to be in gross volumes either 5 scattered throughout EQ a month would do it.
That wouldn't do it though? Maybe (and that's a HUGE maybe) right this moment, yes that'd be a serviceable fix. But seven stars are on the way, six star R5s are going to slowly start really popping up and be regulars for questing. A few scattered 10k heals are going to do anything for that.
The entire idea with the overhaul is to fix, and preferably future proof to some extent, the system. Your "solution" would (at best) be a band aid for a couple of months, and realistically I don't think it'd even be that. So yeah, it's a bit more complicated than you want to give it credit for. This is why Kabam doesn't just listen to everything the community says, because takes like this exist.
It would if they create L7 pots for 7stars and those are made available through playing content designed for them
And how do you balance L7 potions around being purchasable? What is the right cost for something that might be incredibly OP to something lower than a 7star. Maybe the solution is making it only usable for 7stars, but then do L5s or L6s need to only be usable by 6 stars? What if whatever additional mechanic 7stars have as attackers changes how potions might effect them?
You’re trying to simplify something that isn’t simple. To my point earlier, people that have no idea how game development works trying to give solutions to game developers. Community insight is extremely helpful, but people that try to act like Kabam is stupid because they don’t just have an obvious solution is exhausting. You only think it’s obvious because you only see what you want to see.
Or you only make the items available with certain progression tiers tied to Champion Rarity based on the content those champions are designed for.
That still does not get rid of the question of whether or not they'd be overpowered for six stars. Just because I might be x progression level doesn't mean I suddenly have to stop using six or five stars, and if certain potions are much stronger for a lower stared champ you end up devaluing having the higher rarity champ in the game.
I understand I'm putting out a fairly extreme hypothetical, but the point is that this is not a black and white simple argument like you're making it out to be. And unfortunately a large portion of the community seems to think it's as simple as you do and so they attack Kabam for it.
Gonna try again in simpler terms…. I’m not sure why this is considered so complex. Progression gated content just needs to spawn potions for the champs that they are designed for. The entire economy doesn’t have to be reworked, there just needs to be an uptick in where L5/L6 potions can be earned in game and it doesn’t have to be in gross volumes either 5 scattered throughout EQ a month would do it.
That wouldn't do it though? Maybe (and that's a HUGE maybe) right this moment, yes that'd be a serviceable fix. But seven stars are on the way, six star R5s are going to slowly start really popping up and be regulars for questing. A few scattered 10k heals are going to do anything for that.
The entire idea with the overhaul is to fix, and preferably future proof to some extent, the system. Your "solution" would (at best) be a band aid for a couple of months, and realistically I don't think it'd even be that. So yeah, it's a bit more complicated than you want to give it credit for. This is why Kabam doesn't just listen to everything the community says, because takes like this exist.
It would if they create L7 pots for 7stars and those are made available through playing content designed for them
And how do you balance L7 potions around being purchasable? What is the right cost for something that might be incredibly OP to something lower than a 7star. Maybe the solution is making it only usable for 7stars, but then do L5s or L6s need to only be usable by 6 stars? What if whatever additional mechanic 7stars have as attackers changes how potions might effect them?
You’re trying to simplify something that isn’t simple. To my point earlier, people that have no idea how game development works trying to give solutions to game developers. Community insight is extremely helpful, but people that try to act like Kabam is stupid because they don’t just have an obvious solution is exhausting. You only think it’s obvious because you only see what you want to see.
Or you only make the items available with certain progression tiers tied to Champion Rarity based on the content those champions are designed for.
That still does not get rid of the question of whether or not they'd be overpowered for six stars. Just because I might be x progression level doesn't mean I suddenly have to stop using six or five stars, and if certain potions are much stronger for a lower stared champ you end up devaluing having the higher rarity champ in the game.
I understand I'm putting out a fairly extreme hypothetical, but the point is that this is not a black and white simple argument like you're making it out to be. And unfortunately a large portion of the community seems to think it's as simple as you do and so they attack Kabam for it.
Are L6 potions OP for 5stars? I’d recommend looking at the current potion to healthpool scaling to answer your own question there. Saying it’s complicated without knowing that seems to be the same flawed logic just applied in reverse
Gonna try again in simpler terms…. I’m not sure why this is considered so complex. Progression gated content just needs to spawn potions for the champs that they are designed for. The entire economy doesn’t have to be reworked, there just needs to be an uptick in where L5/L6 potions can be earned in game and it doesn’t have to be in gross volumes either 5 scattered throughout EQ a month would do it.
That wouldn't do it though? Maybe (and that's a HUGE maybe) right this moment, yes that'd be a serviceable fix. But seven stars are on the way, six star R5s are going to slowly start really popping up and be regulars for questing. A few scattered 10k heals are going to do anything for that.
The entire idea with the overhaul is to fix, and preferably future proof to some extent, the system. Your "solution" would (at best) be a band aid for a couple of months, and realistically I don't think it'd even be that. So yeah, it's a bit more complicated than you want to give it credit for. This is why Kabam doesn't just listen to everything the community says, because takes like this exist.
It would if they create L7 pots for 7stars and those are made available through playing content designed for them
And how do you balance L7 potions around being purchasable? What is the right cost for something that might be incredibly OP to something lower than a 7star. Maybe the solution is making it only usable for 7stars, but then do L5s or L6s need to only be usable by 6 stars? What if whatever additional mechanic 7stars have as attackers changes how potions might effect them?
You’re trying to simplify something that isn’t simple. To my point earlier, people that have no idea how game development works trying to give solutions to game developers. Community insight is extremely helpful, but people that try to act like Kabam is stupid because they don’t just have an obvious solution is exhausting. You only think it’s obvious because you only see what you want to see.
Or you only make the items available with certain progression tiers tied to Champion Rarity based on the content those champions are designed for.
That still does not get rid of the question of whether or not they'd be overpowered for six stars. Just because I might be x progression level doesn't mean I suddenly have to stop using six or five stars, and if certain potions are much stronger for a lower stared champ you end up devaluing having the higher rarity champ in the game.
I understand I'm putting out a fairly extreme hypothetical, but the point is that this is not a black and white simple argument like you're making it out to be. And unfortunately a large portion of the community seems to think it's as simple as you do and so they attack Kabam for it.
Are L6 potions OP for 5stars? I’d recommend looking at the current potion to healthpool scaling to answer your own question there. Saying it’s complicated without knowing that seems to be the same flawed logic just applied in reverse
I'm not saying they are, but are L6 potions good enough for 6 star rank 5s? A boost Rintrah has over 100k health, you're saying a max of 5 L6 potions a month is going to suddenly fix our potion situation?
Again, my point was obviously an extreme hypothetical. Level 7 potions may not be OP for six stars, but who's to say it stops at level 7? Making infinitely scalable resources isn't future proofing, it's a band aid being reapplied over and over.
Gonna try again in simpler terms…. I’m not sure why this is considered so complex. Progression gated content just needs to spawn potions for the champs that they are designed for. The entire economy doesn’t have to be reworked, there just needs to be an uptick in where L5/L6 potions can be earned in game and it doesn’t have to be in gross volumes either 5 scattered throughout EQ a month would do it.
That wouldn't do it though? Maybe (and that's a HUGE maybe) right this moment, yes that'd be a serviceable fix. But seven stars are on the way, six star R5s are going to slowly start really popping up and be regulars for questing. A few scattered 10k heals are going to do anything for that.
The entire idea with the overhaul is to fix, and preferably future proof to some extent, the system. Your "solution" would (at best) be a band aid for a couple of months, and realistically I don't think it'd even be that. So yeah, it's a bit more complicated than you want to give it credit for. This is why Kabam doesn't just listen to everything the community says, because takes like this exist.
It would if they create L7 pots for 7stars and those are made available through playing content designed for them
And how do you balance L7 potions around being purchasable? What is the right cost for something that might be incredibly OP to something lower than a 7star. Maybe the solution is making it only usable for 7stars, but then do L5s or L6s need to only be usable by 6 stars? What if whatever additional mechanic 7stars have as attackers changes how potions might effect them?
You’re trying to simplify something that isn’t simple. To my point earlier, people that have no idea how game development works trying to give solutions to game developers. Community insight is extremely helpful, but people that try to act like Kabam is stupid because they don’t just have an obvious solution is exhausting. You only think it’s obvious because you only see what you want to see.
Or you only make the items available with certain progression tiers tied to Champion Rarity based on the content those champions are designed for.
That still does not get rid of the question of whether or not they'd be overpowered for six stars. Just because I might be x progression level doesn't mean I suddenly have to stop using six or five stars, and if certain potions are much stronger for a lower stared champ you end up devaluing having the higher rarity champ in the game.
I understand I'm putting out a fairly extreme hypothetical, but the point is that this is not a black and white simple argument like you're making it out to be. And unfortunately a large portion of the community seems to think it's as simple as you do and so they attack Kabam for it.
Are L6 potions OP for 5stars? I’d recommend looking at the current potion to healthpool scaling to answer your own question there. Saying it’s complicated without knowing that seems to be the same flawed logic just applied in reverse
I'm not saying they are, but are L6 potions good enough for 6 star rank 5s? A boost Rintrah has over 100k health, you're saying a max of 5 L6 potions a month is going to suddenly fix our potion situation?
Again, my point was obviously an extreme hypothetical. Level 7 potions may not be OP for six stars, but who's to say it stops at level 7? Making infinitely scalable resources isn't future proofing, it's a band aid being reapplied over and over.
Maybe, but is it really? When you boost your are supercharging your champ, and there should be a cost to that, like extra healing item use, so so I don’t think boosted champ healthpools change my perspective here as that’s comparing apples and oranges.
Do I think 5 is the ideal number? No, it’s an estimate that would need to be tweaked over time. Do I think EQ can be done itemless, so 5 out of EQ is far, especially compared to 0, why yes to both of those items.
Gonna try again in simpler terms…. I’m not sure why this is considered so complex. Progression gated content just needs to spawn potions for the champs that they are designed for. The entire economy doesn’t have to be reworked, there just needs to be an uptick in where L5/L6 potions can be earned in game and it doesn’t have to be in gross volumes either 5 scattered throughout EQ a month would do it.
That wouldn't do it though? Maybe (and that's a HUGE maybe) right this moment, yes that'd be a serviceable fix. But seven stars are on the way, six star R5s are going to slowly start really popping up and be regulars for questing. A few scattered 10k heals are going to do anything for that.
The entire idea with the overhaul is to fix, and preferably future proof to some extent, the system. Your "solution" would (at best) be a band aid for a couple of months, and realistically I don't think it'd even be that. So yeah, it's a bit more complicated than you want to give it credit for. This is why Kabam doesn't just listen to everything the community says, because takes like this exist.
It would if they create L7 pots for 7stars and those are made available through playing content designed for them
And how do you balance L7 potions around being purchasable? What is the right cost for something that might be incredibly OP to something lower than a 7star. Maybe the solution is making it only usable for 7stars, but then do L5s or L6s need to only be usable by 6 stars? What if whatever additional mechanic 7stars have as attackers changes how potions might effect them?
You’re trying to simplify something that isn’t simple. To my point earlier, people that have no idea how game development works trying to give solutions to game developers. Community insight is extremely helpful, but people that try to act like Kabam is stupid because they don’t just have an obvious solution is exhausting. You only think it’s obvious because you only see what you want to see.
Or you only make the items available with certain progression tiers tied to Champion Rarity based on the content those champions are designed for.
That still does not get rid of the question of whether or not they'd be overpowered for six stars. Just because I might be x progression level doesn't mean I suddenly have to stop using six or five stars, and if certain potions are much stronger for a lower stared champ you end up devaluing having the higher rarity champ in the game.
I understand I'm putting out a fairly extreme hypothetical, but the point is that this is not a black and white simple argument like you're making it out to be. And unfortunately a large portion of the community seems to think it's as simple as you do and so they attack Kabam for it.
Are L6 potions OP for 5stars? I’d recommend looking at the current potion to healthpool scaling to answer your own question there. Saying it’s complicated without knowing that seems to be the same flawed logic just applied in reverse
I'm not saying they are, but are L6 potions good enough for 6 star rank 5s? A boost Rintrah has over 100k health, you're saying a max of 5 L6 potions a month is going to suddenly fix our potion situation?
Again, my point was obviously an extreme hypothetical. Level 7 potions may not be OP for six stars, but who's to say it stops at level 7? Making infinitely scalable resources isn't future proofing, it's a band aid being reapplied over and over.
Maybe, but is it really? When you boost your are supercharging your champ, and there should be a cost to that, like extra healing item use, so so I don’t think boosted champ healthpools change my perspective here as that’s comparing apples and oranges.
Do I think 5 is the ideal number? No, it’s an estimate that would need to be tweaked over time. Do I think EQ can be done itemless, so 5 out of EQ is far, especially compared to 0, why yes to both of those items.
That's fair, I probably shouldn't be using boosts in my arguments. I see where you're coming from, to an extent I see it as a decent "quick fix." However, I stand by infinitely scaling resources isn't future proofing, it would be consistent "quick fixes."
A new rarity of champions coming out is the perfect time to redesign the system, I get that people don't like to wait but the same people that complain about things taking a while to implement are the same people that will complain when something is rushed isn't done perfectly. I think that's my biggest problem for advocating for the "simple solution" - but in that same regard there's nothing saying the long term solution will be a perfect thing either. I'm just trying to drive home the point that people need to stop attacking Kabam because they see it as this super simple thing when in reality, even if it's not as complicated as my hypotheticals, it's far from a "simple fix."
Comments
When you're talking about making significant changes to the overall Potions system, that spreads throughout all content in the game that Potions are used. It doesn't take a PhD to understand why that isn't something that is done in a heartbeat. You have to consider many things, and the effects of what you implement. That affects everything from the internal economy to the content that exists and content they will develop.
I'm not necessarily saying you're right, you're obviously just giving your opinion based on the logic/knowledge on hand. But you make a better case than everyone else just typing nonsense.
The implementation of the apothecary seemed to be a sudden change to the game that was not necessarily well thought out, given the community backlash. The revive economy is/was (arguably) a larger area of the game than the potion economy is.
As asked, I'm curious how long the apothecary was worked on, and am curious if the reworking of the potion system will receive an equal amount of attention, a less amount of time, or a greater amount of time than the apothecary did.
PURELY SPECULATING ON KABAM'S POST we can conclude that the change to potions is more than just a change to the economy, but a change to potions themselves which means changing an entire system/foundation of the game - much more than what was done with apothecary.
I would assume, based on the same logic someone else put forth of how quickly Kabam went from "we noticed how many revives were being farmed" to "here's the apothecary" that it likely did not take very long, they probably just reused a standard model of daily quests and put revive rewards in them. The potion rework will likely take much longer.
Imagine paying the same for a potion that heals 1k health vs 20k health. That's the danger in percentage based potions and likely a big reason it will take the length of time it does for them to sort out a solution that appeases everyone.
The entire idea behind both the revive and potion changes, according to Kabam, is with the thought of everest content in mind. So there isn't really a good way to speculate how difficulty will be impacted because we don't know the changes this will have on Kabam's end game design philosophy.
We need higher healing potions, that's not a question anymore. Whether the answer to that is percent based potions I have no idea.
So biased
The entire idea with the overhaul is to fix, and preferably future proof to some extent, the system. Your "solution" would (at best) be a band aid for a couple of months, and realistically I don't think it'd even be that. So yeah, it's a bit more complicated than you want to give it credit for. This is why Kabam doesn't just listen to everything the community says, because takes like this exist.
And the most ridiculous example is the "buy a Sigil health potion for 25 lvl 1 potions", even to get all these lvl ones you need to... I don't know, if you re TB and up, you need to grind 3.2.6 for revives maybe? Oh wait.
You’re trying to simplify something that isn’t simple. To my point earlier, people that have no idea how game development works trying to give solutions to game developers. Community insight is extremely helpful, but people that try to act like Kabam is stupid because they don’t just have an obvious solution is exhausting. You only think it’s obvious because you only see what you want to see.
Rarity based on the content those champions are designed for.
I understand I'm putting out a fairly extreme hypothetical, but the point is that this is not a black and white simple argument like you're making it out to be. And unfortunately a large portion of the community seems to think it's as simple as you do and so they attack Kabam for it.
Again, my point was obviously an extreme hypothetical. Level 7 potions may not be OP for six stars, but who's to say it stops at level 7? Making infinitely scalable resources isn't future proofing, it's a band aid being reapplied over and over.
Do I think 5 is the ideal number? No, it’s an estimate that would need to be tweaked over time. Do I think EQ can be done itemless, so 5 out of EQ is far, especially compared to 0, why yes to both of those items.
A new rarity of champions coming out is the perfect time to redesign the system, I get that people don't like to wait but the same people that complain about things taking a while to implement are the same people that will complain when something is rushed isn't done perfectly. I think that's my biggest problem for advocating for the "simple solution" - but in that same regard there's nothing saying the long term solution will be a perfect thing either. I'm just trying to drive home the point that people need to stop attacking Kabam because they see it as this super simple thing when in reality, even if it's not as complicated as my hypotheticals, it's far from a "simple fix."