Thank you mods. The forums are a kinder place today.
Listen, i have some fun here on the boards but at the end of the day there are humans who may not have the requisite social skills developed yet to effectively communicate, and perhaps a shadow ban may have sufficed to correct certain behaviors. I always fear such anger and frustration will now be directed at some other unsuspecting target. If they/them return, i hope we can all try to be better.
And the example I keep pointing to when people try to make the claim that sports works differently, the lowest payroll in the MLB is currently the Oakland A's at $42M USD. The highest is the Mets at $265M. There are some complicating factors to how salary should be judged, but any way you look at it the teams spending the most on roster are spending at least five times more than the teams spending the least. Moreover the A's are in the AL West, which contains the Mariners ($103M), the Astros ($155M), the Angels ($143M), and the Rangers ($154M). The average roster payroll of their divisional rivals is about $140M, over three times higher. Even its closest rival spends over twice the amount on its roster.
The A's don't get to pick the Orioles ($50M), the Pirates ($58M), and the Rays ($60M) as their competition. They play the teams in their division, regardless of how much they spend on roster. They play who's in front of them, or they don't play at all.
The A's also don't get paid a fraction of the prize money if they win.
In fact, in several leagues the revenue distribution to participants is fairly egalitarian. I don't know how TV revenues are split among MLB teams, but in EPL majority of the TV money is split equally among all teams. Last year the Premier League Champions got paid £164m while the bottom 3 teams made ~£100m each since every team in the league was guaranteed £79m.
BG rewards are not same for everyone, they are gated by stores which are significantly nerfed below the top level.
I'm not trying to change anyone's view and I know you think isn't economically viable to offer similar rewards to lower tiered players. But it appears hypocritical to ask people to beat what's in front of them why denying them the rewards that are being offered to the ones they are asked to beat.
EDIT: Google indicates MLB revenues are also similarly distributed. A's got $208M 2021 while Mets got $302M. The difference between A's at the bottom and LA dodgers at the top was ~2.5x with most teams in the $250-400M range.
That's a whole different thing. The rewards for advancing through VT and GC are trophy tokens, relic shards, etc. Those are the actual rewards, not the items you can buy in the BGs store. If you get to GC and do 2 or 3 matches, you'll earn 10k trophy tokens regardless of progression level, and the same goes for the goodies you obtain by reaching a new rank in VT. So as far as BGs is concerned, UC through Paragon are all fighting for the same rewards.
The tokens are worthless outside the BG store, they do not confer any other benefit. The rewards are same only if everyone had access to the same store.
That's a whole different thing. The rewards for advancing through VT and GC are trophy tokens, relic shards, etc. Those are the actual rewards, not the items you can buy in the BGs store. If you get to GC and do 2 or 3 matches, you'll earn 10k trophy tokens regardless of progression level, and the same goes for the goodies you obtain by reaching a new rank in VT. So as far as BGs is concerned, UC through Paragon are all fighting for the same rewards.
The tokens are worthless outside the BG store, they do not confer any other benefit. The rewards are same only if everyone had access to the same store.
Reward: something given or received in return or recompense for merit, hardship, etc.
The trophy tokens you obtain in BGs are the rewards, not the items you buy in the store because you don't get those for progressing through the ranks in VT and wherever you place in GC at the end of the season. The same way my reward for working a 9-5 is the sum of money I get in my paycheck and not what I buy with said money. Everyone in BGs is competing for the same amount of trophy tokens.
That's a whole different thing. The rewards for advancing through VT and GC are trophy tokens, relic shards, etc. Those are the actual rewards, not the items you can buy in the BGs store. If you get to GC and do 2 or 3 matches, you'll earn 10k trophy tokens regardless of progression level, and the same goes for the goodies you obtain by reaching a new rank in VT. So as far as BGs is concerned, UC through Paragon are all fighting for the same rewards.
The tokens are worthless outside the BG store, they do not confer any other benefit. The rewards are same only if everyone had access to the same store.
Reward: something given or received in return or recompense for merit, hardship, etc.
The trophy tokens you obtain in BGs are the rewards, not the items you buy in the store because you don't get those for progressing through the ranks in VT and wherever you place in GC at the end of the season. The same way my reward for working a 9-5 is the sum of money I get in my paycheck and not what I buy with said money. Everyone in BGs is competing for the same amount of trophy tokens.
If you had a $100 and I had a $100 and we walked into the same store we would be able to buy the same things. Not true in BG. What you can access with tokens is the majority of BG rewards.
Only people at the highest level make the specious argument that the rewards are same, to justify seeking out weaker accounts to build their progress on. Because once they accept that the rewards are not the same, there is no justification for random matchmaking. If rewards are progressional, then what we have is multiple progressional BGs which are presented in a single leaderboard. You could strip the UC/Cavs into a separate leaderboard and still end up with more or less the same distribution of accounts in VT/GC for Paragons in that case. Only way to skew progress in favor of Paragons is to face them off against weaker opponents. That can only be justified with a sham argument that the rewards are same.
That's a whole different thing. The rewards for advancing through VT and GC are trophy tokens, relic shards, etc. Those are the actual rewards, not the items you can buy in the BGs store. If you get to GC and do 2 or 3 matches, you'll earn 10k trophy tokens regardless of progression level, and the same goes for the goodies you obtain by reaching a new rank in VT. So as far as BGs is concerned, UC through Paragon are all fighting for the same rewards.
The tokens are worthless outside the BG store, they do not confer any other benefit. The rewards are same only if everyone had access to the same store.
Reward: something given or received in return or recompense for merit, hardship, etc.
The trophy tokens you obtain in BGs are the rewards, not the items you buy in the store because you don't get those for progressing through the ranks in VT and wherever you place in GC at the end of the season. The same way my reward for working a 9-5 is the sum of money I get in my paycheck and not what I buy with said money. Everyone in BGs is competing for the same amount of trophy tokens.
If you had a $100 and I had a $100 and we walked into the same store we would be able to buy the same things. Not true in BG. What you can access with tokens is the majority of BG rewards.
Only people at the highest level make the specious argument that the rewards are same, to justify seeking out weaker accounts to build their progress on. Because once they accept that the rewards are not the same, there is no justification for random matchmaking. If rewards are progressional, then what we have is multiple progressional BGs which are presented in a single leaderboard. You could strip the UC/Cavs into a separate leaderboard and still end up with more or less the same distribution of accounts in VT/GC for Paragons in that case. Only way to skew progress in favor of Paragons is to face them off against weaker opponents. That can only be justified with a sham argument that the rewards are same.
The rewards are the same the store is not all milestones in VC are the same for all progressions and placement rewards for someone in gamma 2 is the same for someone else in gamma 2 we all compete for the tokens so there’s no excuse for a cav facing a paragon they both compete for tokens they can face each other and it be fair the store is different it’s what you get to treat yourself with for the good job you did so a paragon would get the highest treatment in the store since they’ve done it all uc would get it the worst but VC and GC milestones same for everyone if you can find me one milestone that’s different for every progression title your correct otherwise your not correct
That's a whole different thing. The rewards for advancing through VT and GC are trophy tokens, relic shards, etc. Those are the actual rewards, not the items you can buy in the BGs store. If you get to GC and do 2 or 3 matches, you'll earn 10k trophy tokens regardless of progression level, and the same goes for the goodies you obtain by reaching a new rank in VT. So as far as BGs is concerned, UC through Paragon are all fighting for the same rewards.
The tokens are worthless outside the BG store, they do not confer any other benefit. The rewards are same only if everyone had access to the same store.
Reward: something given or received in return or recompense for merit, hardship, etc.
The trophy tokens you obtain in BGs are the rewards, not the items you buy in the store because you don't get those for progressing through the ranks in VT and wherever you place in GC at the end of the season. The same way my reward for working a 9-5 is the sum of money I get in my paycheck and not what I buy with said money. Everyone in BGs is competing for the same amount of trophy tokens.
If you had a $100 and I had a $100 and we walked into the same store we would be able to buy the same things. Not true in BG. What you can access with tokens is the majority of BG rewards.
Only people at the highest level make the specious argument that the rewards are same, to justify seeking out weaker accounts to build their progress on. Because once they accept that the rewards are not the same, there is no justification for random matchmaking. If rewards are progressional, then what we have is multiple progressional BGs which are presented in a single leaderboard. You could strip the UC/Cavs into a separate leaderboard and still end up with more or less the same distribution of accounts in VT/GC for Paragons in that case. Only way to skew progress in favor of Paragons is to face them off against weaker opponents. That can only be justified with a sham argument that the rewards are same.
In this game, by definition, rewards are whatever you get after finishing some piece of content. You can get anything ranging from rank up materials to crystal shards. What do you get when you progress through VT, or at the end of the season if you made it to GC? Trophy tokens. That is the reward and not what you can buy with them. Trophy tokens. You can choose to reward yourself by spending your them at the BGs store, but the game is rewarding you with trophy tokens, and the amount earned by everyone is the same regardless of progression. Hence everyone is competing for the same rewards.
That's a whole different thing. The rewards for advancing through VT and GC are trophy tokens, relic shards, etc. Those are the actual rewards, not the items you can buy in the BGs store. If you get to GC and do 2 or 3 matches, you'll earn 10k trophy tokens regardless of progression level, and the same goes for the goodies you obtain by reaching a new rank in VT. So as far as BGs is concerned, UC through Paragon are all fighting for the same rewards.
The tokens are worthless outside the BG store, they do not confer any other benefit. The rewards are same only if everyone had access to the same store.
Reward: something given or received in return or recompense for merit, hardship, etc.
The trophy tokens you obtain in BGs are the rewards, not the items you buy in the store because you don't get those for progressing through the ranks in VT and wherever you place in GC at the end of the season. The same way my reward for working a 9-5 is the sum of money I get in my paycheck and not what I buy with said money. Everyone in BGs is competing for the same amount of trophy tokens.
That's a whole different thing. The rewards for advancing through VT and GC are trophy tokens, relic shards, etc. Those are the actual rewards, not the items you can buy in the BGs store. If you get to GC and do 2 or 3 matches, you'll earn 10k trophy tokens regardless of progression level, and the same goes for the goodies you obtain by reaching a new rank in VT. So as far as BGs is concerned, UC through Paragon are all fighting for the same rewards.
The tokens are worthless outside the BG store, they do not confer any other benefit. The rewards are same only if everyone had access to the same store.
Reward: something given or received in return or recompense for merit, hardship, etc.
The trophy tokens you obtain in BGs are the rewards, not the items you buy in the store because you don't get those for progressing through the ranks in VT and wherever you place in GC at the end of the season. The same way my reward for working a 9-5 is the sum of money I get in my paycheck and not what I buy with said money. Everyone in BGs is competing for the same amount of trophy tokens.
If you had a $100 and I had a $100 and we walked into the same store we would be able to buy the same things. Not true in BG. What you can access with tokens is the majority of BG rewards.
Only people at the highest level make the specious argument that the rewards are same, to justify seeking out weaker accounts to build their progress on. Because once they accept that the rewards are not the same, there is no justification for random matchmaking. If rewards are progressional, then what we have is multiple progressional BGs which are presented in a single leaderboard. You could strip the UC/Cavs into a separate leaderboard and still end up with more or less the same distribution of accounts in VT/GC for Paragons in that case. Only way to skew progress in favor of Paragons is to face them off against weaker opponents. That can only be justified with a sham argument that the rewards are same.
Just curious and I'm sorry if this is leaning too far into playing devil's advocate, but what is stopping the UC/cav/TB players from holding onto their $100 until after they return to story content and then spending it on the then upgraded store?
Why not have Battlegrounds that will have this format:
Battlegrounds for Noob Until Cav Victory Tract Gladiator Tract
Battlegrounds for Thronebreaker to Paragon Victory Tract Gladiator Tract
Battlegrounds for Legends (open to all who have reached Vibramium in both categories) Gladiator Tract
Rewards will obviously be adjusted to reflect what the summoner's current progression can usually buy in the other stores. And the number of trophies will also be adjusted.
It's like a martial arts competition where you have different belt categories
From platinum 3 to diamond 2 last night these were the type of accounts I played against every game. Completely unfair for the opponent but impressive they made it to such high a rank.
I don’t really even know what this thread is about already but don’t let this distract you from the fact that Hector is going to be running 3 Honda civics with spoon engines, and on top of that, he went into Harry’s and bought 3 T66 turbos with nos, and a motec exhaust system…
I don’t really even know what this thread is about already but don’t let this distract you from the fact that Hector is going to be running 3 Honda civics with spoon engines, and on top of that, he went into Harry’s and bought 3 T66 turbos with nos, and a motec exhaust system…
Kabam should probably consider buying some chat gpt license to incorporate more intelligent AI in the matchmaking to avoid this definitely unfair match up.
Just curious and I'm sorry if this is leaning too far into playing devil's advocate, but what is stopping the UC/cav/TB players from holding onto their $100 until after they return to story content and then spending it on the then upgraded store?
That is equivalent to suggesting someone to starve through a year so that they can have a feast next year. In most cases the person would be dead?
Let's imagine a competition with four players. Two Paragons A and B and two Uncollected players C and D. If "fairnes" is the two Paragons only match against each other and the two UCs only matching against each other, you could end up with a situation where, say, A wins 60% of his matches against B, while C wins 70% of her matches against D. After many matches are played, we could end up with A winning 60, B winning 40, C winning 70, and D winning 30 matches out of a hundred. In which case, by ranking they would be ranked C, A, B, D. But that's perverse, because both A and B are obviously stronger than C and D, and would almost certainly easily beat both in head to head matches.
What you fail to mention here that the winnings for C & D are extremely commoditised items available bountifully in other parts of the game while A & B get the top end resources available in the game. If you actually rank the players by the rewards they get for their positions it would be A, B, C, D. In fact C & D are hardcoded from accessing any meaningful rewards irrespective of how many matches they win. A & B are playing a different competition than C & D, their relative positions have no meaning when their rewards are not the same. Only competition to A is B and to C is D.
Just curious and I'm sorry if this is leaning too far into playing devil's advocate, but what is stopping the UC/cav/TB players from holding onto their $100 until after they return to story content and then spending it on the then upgraded store?
That is equivalent to suggesting someone to starve through a year so that they can have a feast next year. In most cases the person would be dead?
This seems like a gross misrepresentation as the BG store is far from the only avenue to obtain crystal shards and rank up mats. Tokens are the newest currency in the newest game mode. The store definitely aids progression, but players were reaching those progression marks long before BG was even introduced as a beta concept. Resource management has been an integral part of the game throughout its history. Choosing to spend resources on rewards you don't find appealing is entirely a choice that the individual player makes, not some looming fault in the game design.
Maybe I am just misunderstanding the argument being presented here, but I simply don't understand how earning BG tokens earlier on in the game, progressing through the story, and then spending those tokens on an upgraded store does anything other than provide access to higher ranked champions almost immediately upon reaching said progression level.
Comments
In fact, in several leagues the revenue distribution to participants is fairly egalitarian. I don't know how TV revenues are split among MLB teams, but in EPL majority of the TV money is split equally among all teams. Last year the Premier League Champions got paid £164m while the bottom 3 teams made ~£100m each since every team in the league was guaranteed £79m.
BG rewards are not same for everyone, they are gated by stores which are significantly nerfed below the top level.
I'm not trying to change anyone's view and I know you think isn't economically viable to offer similar rewards to lower tiered players. But it appears hypocritical to ask people to beat what's in front of them why denying them the rewards that are being offered to the ones they are asked to beat.
EDIT: Google indicates MLB revenues are also similarly distributed. A's got $208M 2021 while Mets got $302M. The difference between A's at the bottom and LA dodgers at the top was ~2.5x with most teams in the $250-400M range.
The trophy tokens you obtain in BGs are the rewards, not the items you buy in the store because you don't get those for progressing through the ranks in VT and wherever you place in GC at the end of the season. The same way my reward for working a 9-5 is the sum of money I get in my paycheck and not what I buy with said money. Everyone in BGs is competing for the same amount of trophy tokens.
Only people at the highest level make the specious argument that the rewards are same, to justify seeking out weaker accounts to build their progress on. Because once they accept that the rewards are not the same, there is no justification for random matchmaking. If rewards are progressional, then what we have is multiple progressional BGs which are presented in a single leaderboard. You could strip the UC/Cavs into a separate leaderboard and still end up with more or less the same distribution of accounts in VT/GC for Paragons in that case. Only way to skew progress in favor of Paragons is to face them off against weaker opponents. That can only be justified with a sham argument that the rewards are same.
Why not have Battlegrounds that will have this format:
Battlegrounds for Noob Until Cav
Victory Tract
Gladiator Tract
Battlegrounds for Thronebreaker to Paragon
Victory Tract
Gladiator Tract
Battlegrounds for Legends (open to all who have reached Vibramium in both categories)
Gladiator Tract
Rewards will obviously be adjusted to reflect what the summoner's current progression can usually buy in the other stores. And the number of trophies will also be adjusted.
It's like a martial arts competition where you have different belt categories
White to Orange
Blue to Purple
Brown to Black
Master's division
40 weight sounds nice.
What you fail to mention here that the winnings for C & D are extremely commoditised items available bountifully in other parts of the game while A & B get the top end resources available in the game. If you actually rank the players by the rewards they get for their positions it would be A, B, C, D. In fact C & D are hardcoded from accessing any meaningful rewards irrespective of how many matches they win. A & B are playing a different competition than C & D, their relative positions have no meaning when their rewards are not the same. Only competition to A is B and to C is D.
Maybe I am just misunderstanding the argument being presented here, but I simply don't understand how earning BG tokens earlier on in the game, progressing through the story, and then spending those tokens on an upgraded store does anything other than provide access to higher ranked champions almost immediately upon reaching said progression level.