Game balance and FTP

2

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  • CoppinCoppin Member Posts: 2,601 ★★★★★
    edited July 2023
    Pikolu said:

    Coppin said:

    Coppin said:

    Coppin said:

    I dunno why they are making so many posts about FTP... As if they are owed something...

    The game wouldn’t exist without them. Ask around and they’ll tell you about it.
    The game wouldn't exist without FTP?... So what they pay the bills with love and hugs?
    I think what he means is that without F2P players games like this would not be successful. How many non-F2P multiplayer mobile games do you know?
    Lol yeah sure.. they are a multi million company cause of FTP...
    In a sense, this is somewhat true. Without FTP, the game would be much less popular than it currently is. If a lot of people play the game, then more people will hear about it. The more people that download, the more likely one of them will make a purchase, and purchase means profit. Networking is a wonderful thing
    Well yeah its free advertisement I get that part, but its not the reason why its a multi million dollar game..
    Besides its a Marvel game... It almost advertises itself...
    Well maybe they can start a referral program.. bring 5 spending friends get some in game goodies...
    Seriously though..the problem is not the spenders., from the OPs description of his account, he is behind for a F2P competitive player... So its not the spenders fault entirely he is way behind.
  • DemonzfyreDemonzfyre Member Posts: 22,366 ★★★★★

    Coppin said:

    Coppin said:

    I dunno why they are making so many posts about FTP... As if they are owed something...

    The game wouldn’t exist without them. Ask around and they’ll tell you about it.
    The game wouldn't exist without FTP?... So what they pay the bills with love and hugs?
    I think what he means is that without F2P players games like this would not be successful. How many non-F2P multiplayer mobile games do you know?
    He was being sarcastic.
  • GinjabredMonstaGinjabredMonsta Member, Guardian Posts: 6,482 Guardian
    Coppin said:

    I seriously think that if F2L (yeah im gonna start calling them Free to Lose, seems fair if they call others Pay to Win) should get as much as P2W; but to be fair they should watch ads every 3 fights, specially in Arenas. 1 set 1 ad, skip at 5 seconds.. can you imagine how much fun that would be for F2L players?.. they would be as competitive because they would be getting as much as P2W; but they gotta watch those ads to make up...

    The day the introduce ads into this game for stuff is the day I’d uninstall
  • CoppinCoppin Member Posts: 2,601 ★★★★★

    Coppin said:

    I seriously think that if F2L (yeah im gonna start calling them Free to Lose, seems fair if they call others Pay to Win) should get as much as P2W; but to be fair they should watch ads every 3 fights, specially in Arenas. 1 set 1 ad, skip at 5 seconds.. can you imagine how much fun that would be for F2L players?.. they would be as competitive because they would be getting as much as P2W; but they gotta watch those ads to make up...

    The day the introduce ads into this game for stuff is the day I’d uninstall
    The day they balance the game for F2L players, spenders will stop spending (duh they would have no incentive to spend) and the game will dissapear....
  • Deder80Deder80 Member Posts: 732 ★★★

    After 7 years of this game I can truly say that this time Kabam has truly broken the game balance beyond repair.

    9 out of 10 battlegrounds matches I am amazed at how every opponent has 1.6m hero rating but 3 7 stars, 3 R5 6 stars, and at least 18 R4 6 stars and all of them dupped.

    Unless I am missing something obvious as a FTP player, I have 1 R4 6 star, 2 R3 6 stars and 29 either R2 6 star or R5 5 star champions, played this game for 7 years (1 year break in between), and my best shot at even one R4 is waiting for 3 months and complete every single Event 100% at the highest difficulty too.

    I am literally stuck at Superior Kang because it's pointless to beat him without having the 3 R4 6 stars, yet since the amazing PTW July event there are thousands of accounts that don't even know or needed to look at their 4 stars. Meanwhile I was playing the OG Alliance War with my best champ being a dupped 4* Superior Iron Man for his regen and weeping as others cleaned through every AW with a Rogue. In those days people even sold their Nightcrawler to keep him undupped because not many knew how to deal with him.

    Now on BG I have to sit through a boring 6 minutes for a loss because if I quit I get no points, and I have no drive for quests unless they have R4 rank materials or gold...

    I have no idea if Kabam cares about balance anymore, or if they have any plan to fix the mess they created with this 4th of July event, but if getting that money boost was the most important thing, judging by the amount of R5 and R4 6 stars in small accounts it clearly lined their pockets, but I am sure that the loss of engagement will hurt eventually.

    I am sure this will be blocked by admins, since they clearly don't care about FTP players and don't like this being discussed, but I felt I needed to vent after spending the last hour losing BG matches to amass 8000 points in the 400k BG solo event.

    You must not be aware you can get a r4 by just doing the t6b and t3a paths in 8.2 like person above said must be a skill research issue cause I never went into content saying eh I don't have the test if the requirements met so I'm just going to skip this boss tell I have it all.
    I got 3 R4’s and I haven’t even don’t all of act 7 yet. I do on the other hand feel kabam doesn’t have good balance with the game. Especially for rewards from cav to paragon. Paragon players get a rich 7* shards while thronebreaker like always get almost equal what a cav player gets. For instance. On the plat track paragon players get 2 paragon crystals, and way more mythic crystals shards, TB and cav both get 1 cav nexus…. TB breaker should got 2 cav nexus crystals and amd at least 1750 mystic shards. In my opinion TB have always got the short end of the stick. I bet a lot of people will disagree on this and of course there will be those that just hit the disagree button to hit cause that’s just who they are. So I agree to disagree with this original post.
  • DemonzfyreDemonzfyre Member Posts: 22,366 ★★★★★
    moha said:

    Bro they ruined the game , whales got lots of rank5 and rank2 champions and there is no any content that helps ftp to get some rank5 resources lol

    Act 8. AQ
  • Prismane1269Prismane1269 Member Posts: 218
    edited July 2023
    U can check out mcoc noob YT for amazing Act 7,8 Guide. It’s not too tough to complete act 7–8.2(Initial completion) using r3s. I too explored 8.1 100% with my r3 roster 9/10 months ago and r3 herc & tigra was my mvp. So yea it’s possible for u too

    But I agree that July 4th deals have a massive impact on the current game economy.
  • CoppinCoppin Member Posts: 2,601 ★★★★★
    moha said:

    Bro they ruined the game , whales got lots of rank5 and rank2 champions and there is no any content that helps ftp to get some rank5 resources lol

    Any content that help ftp? 🤔
    You mean any content...
    This is the part that breaks any argument, FTLs asking for balance and better rewards. Why would kabam make FTL ONLY rewards? If FTLs get em.. so do spenders.. so the gap is exactly the same...
  • Ironman3000Ironman3000 Member Posts: 1,993 ★★★★★
    User error.
  • TheLightBringerTheLightBringer Member Posts: 453 ★★★★
    7 years, 1 r4 and 2 r3, you're the problem and it has nothing to do being f2p or not

    Unless you're a casual player and that's totally fine but don't expect to be anywhere near someone playing the game for 1 year but taking it a bit seriously
  • JeancrbJeancrb Member Posts: 227 ★★
    Yeah I had 180 points before 4th July, now I have 70 haha. It became impossible :(
  • ChobblyChobbly Member Posts: 975 ★★★★
    edited July 2023
    Duplicate post
  • ChobblyChobbly Member Posts: 975 ★★★★
    edited July 2023

    7 years, 1 r4 and 2 r3, you're the problem and it has nothing to do being f2p or not

    Unless you're a casual player and that's totally fine but don't expect to be anywhere near someone playing the game for 1 year but taking it a bit seriously

    True. Some have more time to play than others. I only made Paragon a month ago and I've been playing on and off since 2016 but I did take a notable break. Plus, I avoided Act 6 because it just wasn't fun - for a long time until I decided I needed to progress or uninstall.
  • Wozzle007Wozzle007 Member Posts: 1,064 ★★★★★

    After 7 years of this game I can truly say that this time Kabam has truly broken the game balance beyond repair.

    I am literally stuck at Superior Kang because it's pointless to beat him without having the 3 R4 6 stars, yet since the amazing PTW July event there are thousands of accounts that don't even know or needed to look at their 4 stars. Meanwhile I was playing the OG Alliance War with my best champ being a dupped 4* Superior Iron Man for his regen and weeping as others cleaned through every AW with a Rogue. In those days people even sold their Nightcrawler to keep him undupped because not many knew how to deal with him.

    To be blunt you've been barely a player for some time. People pushing have explored all of 7/8 by now.
    If you don't want to play then just don't play.
    You can't be serious or just trolling. Don't know what world you are living in if you think the majority of players have already explored 100% Act 7, let alone Act 8...
    The ones that want to de well in Battle Grounds have.
  • DNA3000DNA3000 Member, Guardian Posts: 19,846 Guardian
    Pikolu said:

    Coppin said:

    Coppin said:

    Coppin said:

    I dunno why they are making so many posts about FTP... As if they are owed something...

    The game wouldn’t exist without them. Ask around and they’ll tell you about it.
    The game wouldn't exist without FTP?... So what they pay the bills with love and hugs?
    I think what he means is that without F2P players games like this would not be successful. How many non-F2P multiplayer mobile games do you know?
    Lol yeah sure.. they are a multi million company cause of FTP...
    In a sense, this is somewhat true. Without FTP, the game would be much less popular than it currently is. If a lot of people play the game, then more people will hear about it. The more people that download, the more likely one of them will make a purchase, and purchase means profit. Networking is a wonderful thing
    The network effect isn't the core critical issue here, although it is a benefit of having a wide audience. The more direct benefit of the F2P model is that it is very hard to get someone to buy something they don't know. If all you have to go on is a box or concept art online of a game, making the mental leap to buy it without knowing if you are going to even want to play it is a tough sell.

    Box games use marketing pushes and game reviews and the like to drum up attention. People buy box games based on their friends buying them or cool reviews or lets plays or whatever. There's a window of time when a game is released that there's tons of info out there to help players make a decision or convince them to take a chance. But games as a service don't have that same option, because they have to drum up continuous interest over a period of years. The people who initially reviewed MCOC are long gone. There are Youtubers that show game play, but those are strong players who have a dedicated interest in the game: it isn't easy to make a decision to buy something on that sort of content alone. All buzz eventually fades.

    What actually "sells" the game in MCOC's case (and most F2P games) is that they are free to play. Free to play is essentially the modern sophisticated online version of shareware. Anyone can pick up MCOC with essentially zero investment in money and very little investment in time, and decide for themselves if they want to engage with the game and play it more.

    Some of the people who pick it up will decide to continue to play it.

    Some of the people who decide to continue to play it will decide to engage strongly with it.

    Some of the engaged players will decide to drop a few bucks on it.

    Some of the spenders will eventually become whales.

    The F2P model takes a difficult selling proposition and breaks it up into a lot of relatively easy ones. Even so, we lose *most* players at every stage. Most of the players who download MCOC will drop it in a week. Most of the players who continue to play it will remain hyper casual. Even most of the engaged players will never spend a dime. And most of the spenders will be light spenders. But we retain enough players at each stage to end up with enough players spending enough cash on the game to make it a successful business venture, and in the process millions of players get to play a game for free that they would otherwise have to pay a lot for, and thus would likely never get the chance to experience.

    There are lots of collateral benefits of having a ton of free players, but the core benefit from a monetization standpoint is that today's free players are tomorrows spenders. Todays spenders are tomorrows whales. MCOC doesn't try to sell hundreds of dollars of stuff to total strangers. MCOC only wants total strangers to stop by and take a look around, that's all. MCOC doesn't sell hundreds of dollars of stuff to them either. We just try to get them to become engaged with the game. MCOC sells hundreds of dollars of stuff only to the people who have already proven to like the game, and want to play it, and want to dedicate time to it, and are willing to spend on it. MCOC sells to customers it already has a relationship with. But to have those people to sell to, it needs the whole rest of the pyramid to support it.
  • BigPoppaCBONEBigPoppaCBONE Member Posts: 2,418 ★★★★★

    Lol, get into GC and you’d probably cry. Average players with decks full of max sig r4, r5, and great 7*.

    I am at GC, and my comment is about the accounts I encountered on the way and still do at GC.

    You're in GC? What did you do with all those tokens you got at each new tier? So you've still got a weak deck and weak matchups that got you to GC and middle of pack Paragons are slugging it out against each other in VT. Maybe you're like a historically mid NFC Least team and your Cinderella story comes to a hard stop once you play someone good.
  • DNA3000DNA3000 Member, Guardian Posts: 19,846 Guardian

    “ I am sure this will be blocked by admins, since they clearly don't care about FTP players and don't like this being discussed, but I felt I needed to vent after spending the last hour losing BG matches to amass 2400 points in the 400k BG solo event.”

    Always love these little bait pieces at the end

    lol always throw in the ridiculous statements. I can do it too, how’s this? If FTP cared about the game they’d spend 😂
    Not every FTP is a Brian Grant. We all spent on the game before, but for one reason or another have stopped spending. The difference is that in over 7 years there has never been an event where you could literally purchase a top tier roster...
    Yeah, in the old days you couldn't do that in an event. You instead did it by just buying tons of champion crystals and ranking up the top prestige champs to qualify you for a top alliance. How much better it was when getting a top tier roster required not just whale-tier spending, but also getting past the AQ gatekeeper alliances of the game. Now that you can just spend money alone, the game is now totally broken.

    I don't know how we are supposed to go on living.

    Every moment in time has had its top tier accounts, and in every age it has always been dominated by the whales. There was never a utopia time when F2P and the whales were in equal footing.

    But also, *none* of those advantages have persisted to today. All of them were temporary, transitory. The whales don't buy permanent advantages, they buy temporary advantages that time eventually erases. In one sense F2P cannot compete with the whales, but in another sense they do: they just get there later. Every F2P player if they play well enough and for long enough will blow past where every single whale is now. Spenders buy time, and time stops for no one. That's why no one cares about the "huge" advantage the top tier players had in T4CC, or in getting access to Cavalier rewards first, or which whales had the R3 to ding Thronebreaker on launch day. Already no one cares who got to Paragon on day one, and who got to Paragon last month.

    Yeah it sucks going up against stacked rosters in BG with more 7s than you have. But that's not game breaking. That's just life. It doesn't matter if they bought that roster or if the game had a hundred times more end game content and they just did more of it than you did. An advantage is an advantage, and a loss is a loss, and someone is always going to have that advantage over you, unless you're one of the top players in the game. People complained that content like SoP and EoP and Gauntlet was "unfair" because it was "too hard" and thus they were "falling behind." Spenders are just an easy target. They spent, you didn't, so their advantage is unfair. When they did EoP and someone else didn't that advantage ended up being unfair to them.

    To me, spenders and spending is just a convenient target. GC is the very top of the competition ladder. Typically maybe 10% of players get there. Things might be a bit skewed this season with all the milestone pushing, but even so it is probably still the top 25% of players getting there at best. Getting there is just not enough for some players. They need to believe that if they aren't progressing, someone other than them is to blame. Everyone should play like them, play as much as them, spend as much as them, or else it is unfair.

    But it is not unfair and it is not broken. It is the deal we have, and have always, always, always had. Spenders get advantages. That's what we give them. Those advantages are not supposed to be advantages non-spenders are free to ignore. If they were, they would not be worth buying. They have to be advantages free to play players cannot simply erase by just playing a little bit more. Don't like it: find another game. Good luck finding one that treats F2P players better than this one though. You could start an account today and in a few months have an account stronger than any whale possessed two years ago. You could be competitive with the average Paragon player in less than a year. Yes, you're not going to reach or overtake the whales of today. The game would be stupid if you could. But you could become competitive with the majority of the playerbase in quick order.

    You can't ask for more than that with a straight face.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Member Posts: 36,644 ★★★★★

    So in a nutshell, the community is OK with players getting huge progression through payment, if anyone is struggling on progression it's their fault for not doing 100% all content and buying all unit and store rank items and spending 24 hours a day in the game for even a fraction of what P2W players get in one transaction, and the game does not need F2P players and their voices have no worth?

    Point taken. Hope you have fun in your wallet fights to see who spent the most. I am sure it must be very rewarding. Your feedback has been really valuable in helping understand my priorities and that I should look elsewhere.

    For those that actually gave constructive feedback, my sincere thanks and hope you find the happiness you seek.

    For those that spend money in the game but don't make it their mission to belittle F2P players in forums or gloat about the advantage they gained, my sincere thanks for keeping this game free to play for other players.

    I don't think you can generalize the community in that capacity. Some people are adamantly against the game selling anything. Some understand at the end of the day, it's a business. Some feel there's some great gap that needs to be closed because they are in an imaginary competition with large spenders.
    People have been able to spend on this game as long as it's existed. They've also been able to spend in competitions like BGs. It isn't anything new.
    Everytime we have a large sale, the same concern is raised, and yet the game goes on and adjusts to whatever was sold. Within half a year to a year, what was offered is more common. One thing is consistent. People who spend will get it first.
    All spending does is save time. It accelerates progress. I've also seen some who have spent to have the Roster, and haven't developed the skills. At least that's what I presume as I play them. Lol.
    The bottom line is we all progress at our own rate. You'll get where you need to be. Don't get discouraged.
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