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the problem with relics, why it exists, and how kabam can fix it
TP33
Member Posts: 1,774 ★★★★★
we all know the news by now, kabam are slowing relics down as they don’t really know what to do with them. the cynics say that relics didn’t make them enough money, kabam claim it’s because of community feedback and lack of engagement, realistically it’s a mix of both.
what is the problem?
yes they haven’t made a lot of money, the majority of spending players - at least those in my alliance and those i have seen in the forums- aren’t really excited when relic based deals or bundles release, players in general aren’t that excited about relics or relic rank up rewards, so as kabam say, player engagement and interest is relatively low, with relics being seen as combo extenders.
this must suck as a developer, putting time effort money into something just for people not to care for the most part, i know that sucks, so i don’t expect kabam to feel another way. the question is now, why does this happen, and what can kabam do to fix this?
why does the problem exist?
multiple reasons. the tiny effect of lower level relics, the specifity of most relics, the grind needed to unlock a high level relic, and the RNG aspect (as always).
most players first introduction to relics was in the form of 3* relics, which could get you a 1-3% increase on a stat, buff or debuff potency or a tiny duration boost. let’s look at the Hulk relic, as a 3* activating its ability will reduce the opponents physical resistance by a whopping 33 points. which roughly translates to between 1-2%. not what you want to see really. as a 4* this goes up to 2.76%. and let’s not get started on mr sinister, 4s self inflicted bleed for mutants? really? i mean i only really see this working on omega red given the time it takes in a fight to cycle your relic, it’s not like the bleeds will be frequent. but the relic requires you to take off the coagulate mastery just to get all 4 seconds of use? seems super redundant to me. cool concept, poor execution.
thus most players saw relics as combo extenders, not impactful on real gameplay except a couple very clutch scenarios which were very uncommon.
the specific nature of the relics was also impactful, the vast majority of relics are incredibly specific, applying to a handful of champions in a class, and even relics like venom are limited to just the cosmic class. i’ve found a use for my +3% bleed potency in my 6* knull, but outside of venom himself, carnage and knull, i really don’t see many applications. if it were not limited to the cosmic class, completely different question and a worthwhile addition to the game, as is now, too niche to justify the grind needed for a 5 or even 6* version
this grind also puts a lot of players off. completely new “catalysts” and “ISO” alongside the absurd grind for 6* relics in particular. i myself have only had 2 5* relics, neither of which were ones i wanted, iron fist and wolverine don’t really pair great with any of my regular use champions, however, if i could apply the wolverine relic to diablo, maybe a different story. in nowhere near a 6* and my 5*s are unranked up, thus the only real effect i see from my relics is my 4* maxed Thor (huge flex i know), whom i use on my CGR. the rest are just kind of on champions i use for combo extension and nothing else. so both am i not incentivised to rank up my current relics, but i’m not really thrilled at the idea of choosing relic shards over other rewards for my main champion roster, i mean hell if you told me i could have a 6* relic or 2 million gold, i’d take the gold.
finally, as already eluded to, the RNG nature of relics can sting extra bad. at least with champions, getting more is easy, and a good champion can (for the most part) always be used where you want. however with relics you need both a good relic and the champion to match, doubling up the RNG aspect. i’m sure the wolverine or iron fist relics took time to develop and implement, so the fact i can’t really use them stings even more.
solutions?
buff them firstly. 10% increases for a 3*, 15% for a 4*, 25% for a 5* and 35% for a 6* seem like good places to start given the grind required to unlock those higher tiers and to incentivise players to invest in their relics. hey i wouldn’t be mad if every relic started off with a 1% potency and you had to rank them up, just make the grinds and resources useful, reward us for unlocking and using them.
reduce the specificity, yes it’s cool to have specific champion synergies and interactions (gambit relic is a good example, but for relics like Wolverine, Hulk, Venom and Ms Marvel, the ability to use them on other classes would be great. Wolverine with Diablo, Hulk with any physical damaging champion, Venom with nick fury, and Ms Marvel with Falcon would all be great combinations to be able to use, but alas kabam says no.
finally reduce the grind a bit, especially for embers and 6* relics, stop making summoners choose either relic rewards or main twister rewards, just let us have both. obviously for stores etc there will always be a choice. but this months event, whilst giving a lot of freedom of choice for summoners to target certain rewards, has proven how parallel summoners needs and relics are.
i mean hell you can always nerf a relic which is performing really well, or reduce rewards later down the line. but without a good base, we’ve seen relics fall into obscurity, which is a shame as they did afford a unique gameplay opportunity - so much so that mortal kombat seems to be copying it 😬😬
what is the problem?
yes they haven’t made a lot of money, the majority of spending players - at least those in my alliance and those i have seen in the forums- aren’t really excited when relic based deals or bundles release, players in general aren’t that excited about relics or relic rank up rewards, so as kabam say, player engagement and interest is relatively low, with relics being seen as combo extenders.
this must suck as a developer, putting time effort money into something just for people not to care for the most part, i know that sucks, so i don’t expect kabam to feel another way. the question is now, why does this happen, and what can kabam do to fix this?
why does the problem exist?
multiple reasons. the tiny effect of lower level relics, the specifity of most relics, the grind needed to unlock a high level relic, and the RNG aspect (as always).
most players first introduction to relics was in the form of 3* relics, which could get you a 1-3% increase on a stat, buff or debuff potency or a tiny duration boost. let’s look at the Hulk relic, as a 3* activating its ability will reduce the opponents physical resistance by a whopping 33 points. which roughly translates to between 1-2%. not what you want to see really. as a 4* this goes up to 2.76%. and let’s not get started on mr sinister, 4s self inflicted bleed for mutants? really? i mean i only really see this working on omega red given the time it takes in a fight to cycle your relic, it’s not like the bleeds will be frequent. but the relic requires you to take off the coagulate mastery just to get all 4 seconds of use? seems super redundant to me. cool concept, poor execution.
thus most players saw relics as combo extenders, not impactful on real gameplay except a couple very clutch scenarios which were very uncommon.
the specific nature of the relics was also impactful, the vast majority of relics are incredibly specific, applying to a handful of champions in a class, and even relics like venom are limited to just the cosmic class. i’ve found a use for my +3% bleed potency in my 6* knull, but outside of venom himself, carnage and knull, i really don’t see many applications. if it were not limited to the cosmic class, completely different question and a worthwhile addition to the game, as is now, too niche to justify the grind needed for a 5 or even 6* version
this grind also puts a lot of players off. completely new “catalysts” and “ISO” alongside the absurd grind for 6* relics in particular. i myself have only had 2 5* relics, neither of which were ones i wanted, iron fist and wolverine don’t really pair great with any of my regular use champions, however, if i could apply the wolverine relic to diablo, maybe a different story. in nowhere near a 6* and my 5*s are unranked up, thus the only real effect i see from my relics is my 4* maxed Thor (huge flex i know), whom i use on my CGR. the rest are just kind of on champions i use for combo extension and nothing else. so both am i not incentivised to rank up my current relics, but i’m not really thrilled at the idea of choosing relic shards over other rewards for my main champion roster, i mean hell if you told me i could have a 6* relic or 2 million gold, i’d take the gold.
finally, as already eluded to, the RNG nature of relics can sting extra bad. at least with champions, getting more is easy, and a good champion can (for the most part) always be used where you want. however with relics you need both a good relic and the champion to match, doubling up the RNG aspect. i’m sure the wolverine or iron fist relics took time to develop and implement, so the fact i can’t really use them stings even more.
solutions?
buff them firstly. 10% increases for a 3*, 15% for a 4*, 25% for a 5* and 35% for a 6* seem like good places to start given the grind required to unlock those higher tiers and to incentivise players to invest in their relics. hey i wouldn’t be mad if every relic started off with a 1% potency and you had to rank them up, just make the grinds and resources useful, reward us for unlocking and using them.
reduce the specificity, yes it’s cool to have specific champion synergies and interactions (gambit relic is a good example, but for relics like Wolverine, Hulk, Venom and Ms Marvel, the ability to use them on other classes would be great. Wolverine with Diablo, Hulk with any physical damaging champion, Venom with nick fury, and Ms Marvel with Falcon would all be great combinations to be able to use, but alas kabam says no.
finally reduce the grind a bit, especially for embers and 6* relics, stop making summoners choose either relic rewards or main twister rewards, just let us have both. obviously for stores etc there will always be a choice. but this months event, whilst giving a lot of freedom of choice for summoners to target certain rewards, has proven how parallel summoners needs and relics are.
i mean hell you can always nerf a relic which is performing really well, or reduce rewards later down the line. but without a good base, we’ve seen relics fall into obscurity, which is a shame as they did afford a unique gameplay opportunity - so much so that mortal kombat seems to be copying it 😬😬
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Comments
https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/342664/so-happy-relics-are-dying/p3
This comment from Miike debunks everything you just said.
I use relics for the striker, and the extended combo and stun are spectacularly helpful. I have them attached to my top champs, and mostly do not even care which relic is bound or what it specifically adds, outside of the extended combo and stun.
I don't get the sturm and drang over relics. Well, I expect as much, because people here freak out about every f'ing thing over and over. But relics don't seem like a big fail or a giant bonus, just a nice added benefit.
The question is not "does it make money?" The more important question is efficiency. It can make all the money in the world but if it can't be supported efficiently that's problematic. And the notion that if it was making money Kabam would just hire more people is a complete fantasy. For that to happen Relics would not just have to be making money, they would have to be making more money than the rest of the game combined.
I happen to have some insight into the evolution of Relics. I had conversations with the developer who originally worked on them back when they were still in early conceptual stages. Kabam Miike mentions that their design space "overlaps champions" in many respects. I can confirm this was a concern way, way back, and not something Kabam is just making up now. I was aware of this being a potential concern about Relic development in early 2021.
In fact, development load is something that comes up in almost *every* discussion about the implementation of *any* game feature. I have never heard a dev say "well it makes money so implementation efficiency doesn't matter." It arguably matters even more for features that make money, because those are the ones that you might want to scale the most.
To put it another way, if a feature isn't making money you might want to take a step back and figure out how to streamline it so it costs less. But if a feature is making money you might want to take a step back and figure out how to streamline it so you can do more of it. But to do either thing requires time from the people currently spending too much of their time locked in an inefficient process supporting it.