Why are the forums a vocal minority? When it comes to decisions

Laceros

I cant find the exact post, but I remember @Kabam Miike saying that the forums and suggestions, complaints, etc were all a minority in terms of in game implementation.

If we are the playerbase, assuming a suggestion is reasonable why wouldn’t we be the majority in making that decision? If we the player base as a whole want something added to the game, why are we the lowest level of consideration?

If not us, who is?

Buttehrs

Because very few of the playerbase uses the forums. If there's a million players, only 100 or so uses forums.

flapjax

I think what he meant was the people who frequent the forums are a minority of the overall player base.

I'd be interested in the actual numbers but basically the number of players is vastly higher than the number of people who use the forums. So just because the majority of the forums agrees with something doesn't mean it's the majority of the player base.

TheTrueBeast10

Also a recent forum showed that something like 70% of forum users are Paragon or Thronebreaker, which is way, way above the actual player base, thus the forum does not represent the normal player

Darkness275

flapjax said:

I think what he meant was the people who frequent the forums are a minority of the overall player base.

I'd be interested in the actual numbers but basically the number of players is vastly higher than the number of people who use the forums. So just because the majority of the forums agrees with something doesn't mean it's the majority of the player base.

Simply playing devil's advocate here - if any percentage of the player base were to actually have a voice though, is it not reasonable for that to be the percentage who are on the forums? That would certainly be a way to encourage forum activity which in turn would make more players aware of things.

Demonzfyre

Laceros said:

I cant find the exact post, but I remember @Kabam Miike saying that the forums and suggestions, complaints, etc were all a minority in terms of in game implementation.

If we are the playerbase, assuming a suggestion is reasonable why wouldn’t we be the majority in making that decision? If we the player base as a whole want something added to the game, why are we the lowest level of consideration?

If not us, who is?

The forums probably makes up for about 1-5% of the playerbase.

willrun4adonut

Demonzfyre said:

Laceros said:

I cant find the exact post, but I remember @Kabam Miike saying that the forums and suggestions, complaints, etc were all a minority in terms of in game implementation.

If we are the playerbase, assuming a suggestion is reasonable why wouldn’t we be the majority in making that decision? If we the player base as a whole want something added to the game, why are we the lowest level of consideration?

If not us, who is?

The forums probably makes up for about 1-5% of the playerbase.

Yes, I made 1-5% rank rewards. What do I get? Hopefully more tier 2 dust.

DNA3000

Darkness275 said:

flapjax said:

I think what he meant was the people who frequent the forums are a minority of the overall player base.

I'd be interested in the actual numbers but basically the number of players is vastly higher than the number of people who use the forums. So just because the majority of the forums agrees with something doesn't mean it's the majority of the player base.

Simply playing devil's advocate here - if any percentage of the player base were to actually have a voice though, is it not reasonable for that to be the percentage who are on the forums? That would certainly be a way to encourage forum activity which in turn would make more players aware of things.

The problem is not that forum users are a minority of players, it is that we are not a representative sample of the playerbase. What the playerbase as a whole wants doesn't align with what you would expect from sampling forum posts.

Most players won't take time to express their preferences in discussion forums, but they make their preferences known through their actions in the game. They vote with their gameplay and their spending choices. Think about every post, tweet, and Youtube video expressing how "out of touch" the game developers are with their cash offers. And then realize that if the cash offers keep coming up over and over, that means people are buying them. If no one was buying them, they would adjust them until enough people did. Tha'ts people voting with their wallets and overruling the vocal minority.

The developers know how strong the average player is, which content the average player wants to play, what champs the average player uses, what offers the average spender buys, all that stuff is in the data of the game. And every time someone who claims to either represent or even know what "most players" want or need directly contradicts that data that's another supposed expert they get to roll their eyes at.

GroundedWisdom

Laceros said:

I cant find the exact post, but I remember @Kabam Miike saying that the forums and suggestions, complaints, etc were all a minority in terms of in game implementation.

If we are the playerbase, assuming a suggestion is reasonable why wouldn’t we be the majority in making that decision? If we the player base as a whole want something added to the game, why are we the lowest level of consideration?

If not us, who is?

There's a difference between giving feedback and making decisions. The statement you're referencing is pointing out that only a fraction of the entire Player base is represented here because only a fraction uses the Forums.
We're not the lowest. We're actually taken into consideration more than any other game I can think of. However, not all suggestions can be implemented. It's not a matter of us being insignificant enough to consider. It's also not just about being reasonable. It's about what is feasible, what does and does not conflict with their current goals, and what has little negative effects overall, over the course of time.
We're not the last word here. We're just not the only word.

Darkness275

DNA3000 said:

Darkness275 said:

flapjax said:

I think what he meant was the people who frequent the forums are a minority of the overall player base.

I'd be interested in the actual numbers but basically the number of players is vastly higher than the number of people who use the forums. So just because the majority of the forums agrees with something doesn't mean it's the majority of the player base.

Simply playing devil's advocate here - if any percentage of the player base were to actually have a voice though, is it not reasonable for that to be the percentage who are on the forums? That would certainly be a way to encourage forum activity which in turn would make more players aware of things.

The problem is not that forum users are a minority of players, it is that we are not a representative sample of the playerbase. What the playerbase as a whole wants doesn't align with what you would expect from sampling forum posts.

Most players won't take time to express their preferences in discussion forums, but they make their preferences known through their actions in the game. They vote with their gameplay and their spending choices. Think about every post, tweet, and Youtube video expressing how "out of touch" the game developers are with their cash offers. And then realize that if the cash offers keep coming up over and over, that means people are buying them. If no one was buying them, they would adjust them until enough people did. Tha'ts people voting with their wallets and overruling the vocal minority.

The developers know how strong the average player is, which content the average player wants to play, what champs the average player uses, what offers the average spender buys, all that stuff is in the data of the game. And every time someone who claims to either represent or even know what "most players" want or need directly contradicts that data that's another supposed expert they get to roll their eyes at.

(Once again... I tried to edit my post and it vanishes)

I wholeheartedly agree.

To respond simply in the context of players voting with their wallets though: FOMO is a huge aspect of mobile game purchases, it's not always indicative of a healthy result. Just because players do buy something, doesn't mean it's a hit, it just means that they likely fell below that breaking point line.

The victory track is actually a perfect example of that.
Last year the victory track was hated by a lot of the people on the forums and reddit.

This year, the track is being overwhelmingly praised (for the most part) because the value we're receiving is tremendously greater. I would wager however, that the track itself is still viewed by many as an inferior method, but the sales would suggest to them that it's a success and we (the players) enjoy it.

Darkness275

GroundedWisdom said:

There's a difference between giving feedback and making decisions. The statement you're referencing is pointing out that only a fraction of the entire Player base is represented here because only a fraction uses the Forums.
We're not the lowest. We're actually taken into consideration more than any other game I can think of.

This ^ is actually right on the money TBH.
Sorry, I know I started this by saying I'd be playing devil's advocate but I wanted to concur with this. I don't feel Kabam gets a lot of praise for it, because they actually do listen to the player base quite a lot.

AverageDesi

Laceros said:

I cant find the exact post, but I remember @Kabam Miike saying that the forums and suggestions, complaints, etc were all a minority in terms of in game implementation.

If we are the playerbase, assuming a suggestion is reasonable why wouldn’t we be the majority in making that decision? If we the player base as a whole want something added to the game, why are we the lowest level of consideration?

If not us, who is?

For example when an offer comes and the forums are up in arms about how no one will buy it and why kabam keeps putting it out but they have the actual data that many people buy it, why would they change it?

DNA3000

Darkness275 said:

This year, the track is being overwhelmingly praised (for the most part) because the value we're receiving is tremendously greater. I would wager however, that the track itself is still viewed by many as an inferior method, but the sales would suggest to them that it's a success and we (the players) enjoy it.

It is really difficult to distinguish such differences in the data on an offer by offer basis, but there are ways to know on a more holistic level whether people are "enjoying" their spending or not. For many (most or all of them) F2P game operators, this sort of data analysis is highly proprietary information though. I would expect "enjoyable" spending to affect LTV in some positive way, something the Home Shopping Network probably pioneered before F2P gaming came along and TEMU seems to be trying to perfect.