Revive nerf and impacts on the community

mmartin5817mmartin5817 Member Posts: 93
I’m curious if Kabam hires economist? I assume they do? I believe there can be more compromise when nerfing revive farming. Maybe they have a plan but my confidence is uncertain at best. I’m not oppose to a nerf but I’m not excited about what’s happening currently in the game. It makes me feel uncertain about nerfing in the future such as arena units, but that is another topic. When I see revive farming I see it as a currency of energy refills vs units. With unlimited refills you can farm unlimited revives given the time. I am not an economist, but I’d like to breakdown act 5.4.6 revive farming which is scheduled to be nerfed 100% from my understanding. When I farm I see it as 2 20% revives/ 1 energy refill. This was very comparable to 3.2.6 farming which has already been nerfed. 1 energy refill cost 30 units, so each 20% revive farmed is 15 units of value . A 40 % revive is 40 units. So the problem kabam has is farmed revives are cutting into their bottom line and making it harder to make content that can’t be just nullified by farming. They have also addressed that farming creates an environment that makes death meaningless. The issues I have with this is how much time it takes to farm does have cost because it takes so much time. The questions I wish they would address more is “Why summoners farm? Why do they have to?” They have tried to address this by making content easier because “ content is too hard”. That’s only one aspect of it and I believe there are more reasons. There is a reward of feeling accomplished when you spend so much time grinding then finally see your farming and planning come to reality when you finally push to complete Everest content that you previously thought unattainable( it is fun win) It are things like this that I feel Kabam may not address publicly enough. There are many reasons people farm and I feel it’s overlooked by the negative impacts it has on Kabam’s bottom line. Before putting farmers out of business it would be nice to see them address this opposing side of farms being nerfed and the impact it has on the communities engagement.

Kabam could nerf the farms and make both parties somewhat happy or at least content. The currency of farmers is not units it is energy refills. I don’t think they should be more stingy on refills to solve this problem. There’s too much content in the game to nerf energy. If they tune these farm rng to give 1 revive/ refill vs 2 revives/ refill they could bump up the value of a farmed revive to 30 units by making it cost the exact same as a energy refill. This is not 40 units like they currently sell 40% revives. So kabam will still be only making 3/4 of what they would if the completely nerfed it. They would probably lose more if you account for purchasing revives as being a monopsony/ monopoly. If they wanted they could make farming just as efficient as purchasing revives and settle at making farming cost 40 units per revive by tweaking the rng oj paths. They absolutely could find a compromise. I would bet the demand for farming revives would come down since the cost went up and it would fit the optimal price on the bell curve for supply and demand better than it currently is. Another thing to note is 20% revives and 40% revives are not the same. So I don’t believe 20% revives should cost 40 units. The 30 units I’m suggesting for compromise is similar to buying a 20 oz of pop vs a 2 liter. Sure you might not get as much per unit cost but a lot of people still go for the 20oz out of convenience even though it cost more overall. Cutting the revive farms to 1 revive per energy refill would allow kabam to dip more into the profits of selling units like they want while also allowing us farmers to continue to farm if the need arises. I think the community would be happier with this decision vs a complete nerf. This game is tough.

Farming is time consuming and doesn’t make sense from a time best spent perspective to obtain revives. If you were to farm 125 revives from 5.4.6 right now it would take about 20 hrs. ( Yes, I can autofight this act, but for my calculations I was manually playing which is even faster) This is based on my personal experience of farming and keeping track of time spent on the current ratio of 2 revives farmed/ 1 energy refill. To play devils advocate and assume I don’t want free time to actually play the game for fun or ftp you could just work more to buy revives. I don’t recommend this I’m merely just breaking down the “what if” to show that farming isn’t the most efficient way to obtain revives. People spend time farming in game because they enjoy the game or they feel it’s a better use of time. If you worked those extra hours@ $16/hr and used that money to buy units to purchase revives it would in most cases be more beneficial for acquiring revives. I accounted for 50% tax deduction in my math which is too high, but should cover cost to commute/ lunch to work and also any currency issues when purchasing Odins. ($16/hr x 20 hrs).5 taxes= $160. $160/$100 per Odin=1.6 Odins. 1.6x 3,100 units per Odin= 4960 units. 4960 units/ 40 units per revive= 124 revives. So if you spent those same hours in game working you could buy revives instead, but that’s not feasible for all players or how they want to spend their money or free time. In the end this is a game we play because we enjoy it. Sure we could spend our time elsewhere but we don’t people enjoy playing the game and that’s one reason they spend their time farming.

In conclusion, I believe revives should still be farmable if Kabam allowed for a better compromise when nerfing revives. I’ve spent so much more time in the game because I can farm revives. It takes a lot of time and I’m curious if Kabam will lose player engagement since they can’t farm anymore or will the players just reallocate their time elsewhere and continue to play and pay the price. I also don’t think apocathary is entirely the answer. My biggest issues with that are the stash limits are too small and false advertising. Increase the time for expiration from 14 days to 30 days. That would allow us to obtain 16 more revives to push for harder content that still exist in the game. As far as what I feel is false advertising in apocathary is the quest icon for the easy path shows a level 1 revive on the cover and if you go to the exploration rewards for that easy path you only get a potion, not a revive. Also, the quest icon for the expert path has a lvl 2 revive displayed. If you go to the exploration rewards it shows a lvl 1 revive. I understand there is some rng to allow you to acquire these item on the paths when they pop up but to be displayed on the quest icon to me is false advertising because those rewards are not guaranteed. All other daily quest show what you receive. Please fix those quest icons to represent the exploration rewards. I’m looking forward to playing the game in 2024 I just feel a complete revive nerf isn’t as exciting because of how much the communities loses without knowing or being certain that things aren’t going to get worse.
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Comments

  • BringPopcornBringPopcorn Member Posts: 5,212 ★★★★★

    I ain't reading that But I understand your feeling. You're right, kabam should be giving a compromise.

    I think just be increasing the amout of units we get from arena, increasing battle chips as well are arena crystal droprates, we can compromise the revive nerf.

    And your belief of needing a compromise is based on what? Please explain.
  • BringPopcornBringPopcorn Member Posts: 5,212 ★★★★★
    edited January 6
    Pikolu said:

    I ain't reading that But I understand your feeling. You're right, kabam should be giving a compromise.

    I think just be increasing the amout of units we get from arena, increasing battle chips as well are arena crystal droprates, we can compromise the revive nerf.

    And your belief of needing a compromise is based on what? Please explain.
    Because When kabam is shutting down a system whose advantages are already reaped by endgame players, the mig paragon and others shouldn't feel betrayed.

    Also in the long run, we really want more units in general, and arena buff satisfies both revive and unit issue.

    Also arena hasn't received any major buff since it's inception, so..
    12k units used let you buy everything in the CM and 4th of July unit deals.. now its close to 18k+....
    It was 36k units to buy all the unit deals last 4th of July (because you could go through the 18k tree twice). I think the last thing kabam is going to do is make revives/units even easier to get.
    I was low balling lol... Yeah i remember those ex trophy champs being in crazy unit milestones... And now at a 1/3 price on banquet kinda...
    I dunno what they will do in the future or what their endgame is; but people will have to pick and choose now, farm for sales or spend on content, and that doesn't seem unfair at all for the F2P player base.
  • DemonzfyreDemonzfyre Member Posts: 22,059 ★★★★★

    I ain't reading that But I understand your feeling. You're right, kabam should be giving a compromise.

    I think just be increasing the amout of units we get from arena, increasing battle chips as well are arena crystal droprates, we can compromise the revive nerf.

    They already gave you a compromise.
  • DemonzfyreDemonzfyre Member Posts: 22,059 ★★★★★

    I ain't reading that But I understand your feeling. You're right, kabam should be giving a compromise.

    I think just be increasing the amout of units we get from arena, increasing battle chips as well are arena crystal droprates, we can compromise the revive nerf.

    And your belief of needing a compromise is based on what? Please explain.
    Because When kabam is shutting down a system whose advantages are already reaped by endgame players, the mig paragon and others shouldn't feel betrayed.

    Also in the long run, we really want more units in general, and arena buff satisfies both revive and unit issue.

    Also arena hasn't received any major buff since it's inception, so..
    Revive farming isn't a system. It's an unintended change that happened when Acts 1-5 were revamped.
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  • GamerGamer Member Posts: 10,897 ★★★★★

    I ain't reading that But I understand your feeling. You're right, kabam should be giving a compromise.

    I think just be increasing the amout of units we get from arena, increasing battle chips as well are arena crystal droprates, we can compromise the revive nerf.

    And your belief of needing a compromise is based on what? Please explain.
    Because When kabam is shutting down a system whose advantages are already reaped by endgame players, the mig paragon and others shouldn't feel betrayed.

    Also in the long run, we really want more units in general, and arena buff satisfies both revive and unit issue.

    Also arena hasn't received any major buff since it's inception, so..
    Revive farming isn't a system. It's an unintended change that happened when Acts 1-5 were revamped.
    U could always farm in act 5 wasn’t well known because back then act 3. 2. 6 was so much easier so wasn’t any data that’s show the farm in act 5 before 2 months ago really.
  • BringPopcornBringPopcorn Member Posts: 5,212 ★★★★★

    People looking for a compromise that benefits them make me laugh. Its a company that looks for profit, letting you have units for free is their ultimate compromise.
    Let's say your boss tells you that phones can no longer be used during working hours? Do you ask for longer lunch breaks as a compromise for time lost using your phone?....
    People are so entitled to think they can ask for a compromise...

    But they do let you have units for free. Everything you need in the game, you can get for free. What Kabam (Netmarble really) profits off of is those who are impatient.
    I think we both have the same point..
    But ehhhh on the patience, that's a gambling factor.
    People need to realize that they will have to buy revives. As of now you can hold what? 60ish?.. 60ish is a pretty fair number to try everest content.
  • mmartin5817mmartin5817 Member Posts: 93

    Everyone trying to be DNA these days.

    Nah DNA makes a lot of sense on his long posts and is detailed.. this guy has a whole paragraph about false advertising on something based on RNG....
    After looking at the apocathary I see it says “potential rewards”. I was wrong on it being completely false, but it still is a different icon than any other daily quest in that it includes the potential rewards in the icon instead of the exploration rewards. It was a long post.
  • BringPopcornBringPopcorn Member Posts: 5,212 ★★★★★
    edited January 6



    Everyone trying to be DNA these days.

    Nah DNA makes a lot of sense on his long posts and is detailed.. this guy has a whole paragraph about false advertising on something based on RNG....
    After looking at the apocathary I see it says “potential rewards”. I was wrong on it being completely false, but it still is a different icon than any other daily quest in that it includes the potential rewards in the icon instead of the exploration rewards. It was a long post.
    It was, now let me ask you this after you wrote all that.
    In order to ask for a compromise you HAVE to offer a bargaining chip, otherwise it is not really a compromise. It becomes a demand.
    What is your bargaining chip to ask for a compromise on more revives or units?
    What are you offering to give in a free to play and enjoy game with no ads to negotiate a compromise for them reducing revive farms?
  • captain_rogerscaptain_rogers Member Posts: 9,612 ★★★★★
    edited January 6
    Y'all are too salty. Asking a bit more rewards when they are warping down an unintended resource system that benefitted ftp players is not a big deal, neither it's gonna crash the game economy.

    Apothecary is definitely not a compromise, giving a bit more units helps in revamping arenas and makes the content more engaging.

    Again, it's not like I'm not grateful or something, All I'm asking is when kabam's shutting down one source of resource farm, they should buff the other one atleast a little, They know well how to improve arena rewards without breaking the game at the same time making sure the summoners won't miss the revive farm.
  • BringPopcornBringPopcorn Member Posts: 5,212 ★★★★★

    Y'all are too salty. Asking a bit more rewards when they are warping down an unintended resource system that benefitted ftp players is not a big deal, neither it's gonna crash the game economy.

    Apothecary is definitely not a compromise, giving a bit more units helps in revamping arenas and makes the content more engaging.

    Again, it's not like I'm not grateful or something, All I'm asking is when kabam's shutting down one source of resource farm, they should buff the other one atleast a little, They know well how to improve arena rewards without breaking the game at the same time making sure the summoners won't miss the revive farm.

    Salty? I'm perfectly fine with the change, you are the one asking for a compromise with no bargaining chip...
    They took away something and you are asking to give a little back who is the salty one?
  • mmartin5817mmartin5817 Member Posts: 93




    Everyone trying to be DNA these days.

    Nah DNA makes a lot of sense on his long posts and is detailed.. this guy has a whole paragraph about false advertising on something based on RNG....
    After looking at the apocathary I see it says “potential rewards”. I was wrong on it being completely false, but it still is a different icon than any other daily quest in that it includes the potential rewards in the icon instead of the exploration rewards. It was a long post.
    It was, now let me ask you this after you wrote all that.
    In order to ask for a compromise you HAVE to offer a bargaining chip, otherwise it is not really a compromise. It becomes a demand.
    What is your bargaining chip to ask for a compromise on more revives or units?
    What are you offering to give in a free to play and enjoy game with no ads to negotiate a compromise for them reducing revive farms?
    I never asked for more revives or units, except the stash limits in the case they nerf the revive acquisition in game. The revives are already in game on paths throughout quest ready to be collected by those who are willing to put in the time to farm them. The compromise I have is it will change how myself and many others play the game. It may be less or it may be reallocated to a different part of the game. I guess that’s why I’ll have to trust in Kabam’s overall plan. If it’s not suitable then I’ll lose interest in progressing in the game and I’m sure I won’t be alone. I’m not free to play but can see how this impacts them even more.

    I can’t really offer kabam anything if they’re forcefully removing revives from the game. I think that comes down to why do they need to remove the revives in the first place? That suggest they have anything to offer in the first place. That suggest I’m obligated to offer them anything. They are the ones offering the service to play the game. Currently, there is no upfront cost to play, so until that changes the appeal to play will still be there and when that changes they will have to become more appealing to get paying customers.

    In this post I was merely making a suggestion that Kabam in their own decision making to offer less revives in game to see that there are other solutions. This game is based on unit cost. My suggestion was to make the revive cost more inline with energy cost and unit cost for obtaining revives. This benefits the player base better than an all out ban on revive farming unless Kabam’s larger plan account for this issue.
  • BringPopcornBringPopcorn Member Posts: 5,212 ★★★★★
    edited January 6
    Venoween said:

    I noticed some Kabam employees are posting on this forum.

    Wow harsh, if this is to point out some people defending the change like me, I will be brutally honest. I am a spending player and don't care much for F2P players complaining about getting too little, since they don't contribute much.
    I don't think a Kabam employee would say something like that about F2P players.
  • CvlrCvlr Member Posts: 223 ★★
    I think that have the possibility to farm too much revives in a short time would result in more difficult content, because of the basic concept of the game: if you win you get rewards, if you lose you have to pay.
    That's how kabam think of the game (it was said in some stream time ago).
    Imagine have the possibility to farm hundreds of revives in a week, it will allow a player with 5s aegon do necropolis in an easier way, in a shortest time, of some player that doesn't have time or will to farm (or doesn't have aegon at all). This seems not correct to a player like me, that rarely farm revives in story content (just when I have refils in excess).
    Why I do not farm revives too? Because I find it boring. I prefer wait some days more, playing normally, to get revives from individual event, and apotecary.
    Of course there's need to be balance between how much revives we got and how much we should spend to go through hard content.
    The right way, for kabam's philosophy, to get through hard content is to patiently grow up, in roaster and skill, and to patiently farm revives. For their point of view, giving too much revives is bad not only for game economy, but also because is "distracting" player from playing.
    Why should I rank up, spend material on a 6* aegon, when I could farm 300 revives in 2 weeks and get the same rewards using the 5*?
    I agree that should not be possible.
    So, overall, I'm not disappointed in revive nerfing, and somehow understand kabam's point of view.
  • DemonzfyreDemonzfyre Member Posts: 22,059 ★★★★★
    Venoween said:

    I noticed some Kabam employees are posting on this forum.

    So anyone with a different opinion of yours is a Kabam employee?
  • Wicket329Wicket329 Member Posts: 3,371 ★★★★★

    People looking for a compromise that benefits them make me laugh. Its a company that looks for profit, letting you have units for free is their ultimate compromise.
    Let's say your boss tells you that phones can no longer be used during working hours? Do you ask for longer lunch breaks as a compromise for time lost using your phone?....
    People are so entitled to think they can ask for a compromise...

    But they do let you have units for free. Everything you need in the game, you can get for free. What Kabam (Netmarble really) profits off of is those who are impatient.
    I think we both have the same point..
    But ehhhh on the patience, that's a gambling factor.
    People need to realize that they will have to buy revives. As of now you can hold what? 60ish?.. 60ish is a pretty fair number to try everest content.
    You could actually hold way more than that with careful resource management. With enough patience you could get near 100 in hand before going into content. That being said, I’ve explored Necro and I think I only had one run cost more than 60 revives.

    Asking for more units in response to the farm nerf is not a reasonable request. You can use units to buy revives, yes, but the whole reason people are upset about the farm nerf is because they already refuse to spend units on revives. There’s no reason to believe that thinking would change if units were more available.

    Recently, Kabam sold a potion package for 500 units. Phenomenal value. I picked up three of them, and it fueled my last exploration runs. Stop thinking about what is going away and start thinking about what tools you have left at your disposal.

    Finally, Kabam has said that there is going to be an announcement about an upcoming piece of Everest style content during the next livestream. This will go live after the revive farm nerfs. It is likely that Kabam will use engagement with that as a metric to see just how big of an impact this farm nerf has made. Nothing is going to change until that point.
  • PikoluPikolu Member, Guardian Posts: 7,778 Guardian
    Venoween said:

    I noticed some Kabam employees are posting on this forum.

    Kabam employees will have the orange text and Kabam in their name. Also saying garbage like this kills any constructive discussion you could have had in this thread. All it says is you want an echo chamber to hear your thoughts being accepted rather than having a civil discussion.

  • VenoweenVenoween Member Posts: 170

    Venoween said:

    I noticed some Kabam employees are posting on this forum.

    So anyone with a different opinion of yours is a Kabam employee?
    I’ve not even shared an opinion, and I am being attacked. Must be some really miserable people out there. Try meditation.

  • BringPopcornBringPopcorn Member Posts: 5,212 ★★★★★
    Venoween said:

    Venoween said:

    I noticed some Kabam employees are posting on this forum.

    So anyone with a different opinion of yours is a Kabam employee?
    I’ve not even shared an opinion, and I am being attacked. Must be some really miserable people out there. Try meditation.

    Exactly, you are being useless
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