Math problem

The_Unnamed99

I've never been good at math, and I honestly I don't feel like doing it, so I'm hoping someone can help me here. When you have an effect that adds onto another through a percentage (like an Intensify adding 30%), how exactly does it add that percentage? Is it actually adding, or is it multiplying? Please forgive me if this is a stupid answer, like I said I'm terrible at math.

Death33

You would add it

Crcrcrc

It's additive, so one is +30%, two is +60%, etc

The_Unnamed99

Thank you for a quick reply!

DNA3000

The_Unnamed99 said:

I've never been good at math, and I honestly I don't feel like doing it, so I'm hoping someone can help me here. When you have an effect that adds onto another through a percentage (like an Intensify adding 30%), how exactly does it add that percentage? Is it actually adding, or is it multiplying? Please forgive me if this is a stupid answer, like I said I'm terrible at math.

Most of the time, modifiers are calculated relative to the base value of the stat being affected. For example, if you have a +30% fury effect, that is an additional 30% of your base attack value. If your base attack is 1000, then a +30% fury effect adds an additional 30% x 1000 = 300 more attack. Your attack goes from 1000 to 1000 + 300 = 1300. If you get an additional +30% fury effect, that adds an additional 300 attack, so your attack goes up to 1000 + 300 + 300 = 1600.

The net effect is that it looks like those fury bonuses add together. In other words, +30% + +30% = +60%. For most effects, this is what happens, but there are exceptions. For example, the effect that poison has on regeneration is multiplicative. Each poison reduces regeneration by 30%, but that doesn't stack additively. You don't get from 100% regen to 70% regen to 40% regen to 10% regen to -20% regen. You go from 100% regen to 70% regen to 49% regen to 34% regen to 24% regen. 100 x 0.7 x 0.7 x 0.7 x 0.7. Damage reduction debuffs also tend to work that way.

The one you have to be especially careful of are ability accuracy modifiers. Because ability accuracy is itself a percentage value, it can sometimes be ambiguous as to whether an effect is being expressed in terms of raw value or actual percentage values. If I say 30% increase in attack, the meaning is obvious. If I say 532 increase in attack, the meaning is also obvious, because in both cases the base value being modified is itself just one (big) number.

However, if we are dealing with a base value that is itself a percentage, we run into a language problem. If I have a base value of 20% and I increase that by 10%, do I mean increase 20% + 10% = 30%, or do I mean 20% + (20% x 10%) = 22%? In both cases, most people describe this situation as "twenty percent plus ten percent." The classic OG example of this happening is Black Widow's signature ability. At max sig she reduces enemy ability accuracy by 80%. However, her sig specifically states that this reduction is itself increased by 15% against Science champs. Is that 80% + 15% = 95% or 80% + (80% x 15%) = 92%?

It is the former. The bonus is a flat percentage number, or percentage points. It is a raw number, not a percentage of the base value. This used to (and possibly still does) confuse players, because Black Widow also has a synergy with Quake which offers a +15% ability accuracy bonus. So when you have the Quake synergy and also fighting Science champs, what's the net overall effect? Is it 80% + 15% + 15%?

Nope. The calculation is 80% x 1.15 + 15% = 107% (in the old days when 4* was the top rarity BW's signature ceiling was 70%, and the math worked out to 70% x 1.15 + 15% = 95.5%). The synergy is multiplicative, and the science bonus is additive. What is actually happening is that the synergy is a proportional percentage based off base value while the science bonus is a raw bonus, like increasing attack by 532. So it is working out to 80% + 80% x 15% [the synergy] + 15% [the science bonus].

In other words, one of them is multiplicative and one of them is additive. These days, the devs try to avoid this sort of confusion by calling additive AA effects "flat percentages" and the multiplicative/proportional ones just "percentages" but that doesn't always happen consistently, and sometimes it takes experience to know which way those go.

FrostGiantLord

DNA3000 said:

The_Unnamed99 said:

I've never been good at math, and I honestly I don't feel like doing it, so I'm hoping someone can help me here. When you have an effect that adds onto another through a percentage (like an Intensify adding 30%), how exactly does it add that percentage? Is it actually adding, or is it multiplying? Please forgive me if this is a stupid answer, like I said I'm terrible at math.

Most of the time, modifiers are calculated relative to the base value of the stat being affected. For example, if you have a +30% fury effect, that is an additional 30% of your base attack value. If your base attack is 1000, then a +30% fury effect adds an additional 30% x 1000 = 300 more attack. Your attack goes from 1000 to 1000 + 300 = 1300. If you get an additional +30% fury effect, that adds an additional 300 attack, so your attack goes up to 1000 + 300 + 300 = 1600.

The net effect is that it looks like those fury bonuses add together. In other words, +30% + +30% = +60%. For most effects, this is what happens, but there are exceptions. For example, the effect that poison has on regeneration is multiplicative. Each poison reduces regeneration by 30%, but that doesn't stack additively. You don't get from 100% regen to 70% regen to 40% regen to 10% regen to -20% regen. You go from 100% regen to 70% regen to 49% regen to 34% regen to 24% regen. 100 x 0.7 x 0.7 x 0.7 x 0.7. Damage reduction debuffs also tend to work that way.

The one you have to be especially careful of are ability accuracy modifiers. Because ability accuracy is itself a percentage value, it can sometimes be ambiguous as to whether an effect is being expressed in terms of raw value or actual percentage values. If I say 30% increase in attack, the meaning is obvious. If I say 532 increase in attack, the meaning is also obvious, because in both cases the base value being modified is itself just one (big) number.

However, if we are dealing with a base value that is itself a percentage, we run into a language problem. If I have a base value of 20% and I increase that by 10%, do I mean increase 20% + 10% = 30%, or do I mean 20% + (20% x 10%) = 22%? In both cases, most people describe this situation as "twenty percent plus ten percent." The classic OG example of this happening is Black Widow's signature ability. At max sig she reduces enemy ability accuracy by 80%. However, her sig specifically states that this reduction is itself increased by 15% against Science champs. Is that 80% + 15% = 95% or 80% + (80% x 15%) = 92%?

It is the former. The bonus is a flat percentage number, or percentage points. It is a raw number, not a percentage of the base value. This used to (and possibly still does) confuse players, because Black Widow also has a synergy with Quake which offers a +15% ability accuracy bonus. So when you have the Quake synergy and also fighting Science champs, what's the net overall effect? Is it 80% + 15% + 15%?

Nope. The calculation is 80% x 1.15 + 15% = 107% (in the old days when 4* was the top rarity BW's signature ceiling was 70%, and the math worked out to 70% x 1.15 + 15% = 95.5%). The synergy is multiplicative, and the science bonus is additive. What is actually happening is that the synergy is a proportional percentage based off base value while the science bonus is a raw bonus, like increasing attack by 532. So it is working out to 80% + 80% x 15% [the synergy] + 15% [the science bonus].

In other words, one of them is multiplicative and one of them is additive. These days, the devs try to avoid this sort of confusion by calling additive AA effects "flat percentages" and the multiplicative/proportional ones just "percentages" but that doesn't always happen consistently, and sometimes it takes experience to know which way those go.

I've learned more from this one post than I did from the entire school term 💀. Thanks @DNA3000