I think superhero movies need a new strategy beyond standard tropes and the cut and paste journey of a hero approach.
I don't think I would agree. I think the problem isn't trope reuse, I think it is execution. People were saying similar things during the Infinity saga, and yet Ant Man was a breath of fresh air, and Dr. Strange was a breath of fresh air, and Guardians was a breath of fresh air, all the while none of them were super trope-breaking movies.
People loved Winter Soldier even though in many ways it was just a classic spy thriller, just set in the MCU. It was well executed, and I think that's what mattered more. You could argue that Quantummania was far more original than Civil War, but Civil War was far better executed.
Even at the doorstep to the end of Phase three, Black Panther was a flawed but extremely successful and well-loved movie that wasn't challenging in the cinematic sense, but still fairly well executed and well acted, and had just the right amount of "message" without being preachy.
Post Infinity Saga I think Shang Chi was a good movie, Guardians 3 was a good movie, and No Way Home was of course a spectacular movie. And outside the MCU Across the Spiderverse was amazing. I think there will never be another Infinity Saga, just like I think there will never really be another Crisis on Infinite Earths, no matter how much DC comics keeps trying to recapture that feeling. But I think tropes are tropes because they work. The superhero trope isn't just a few decades old, or even a century old. They are millennia old, and we still use them because they work. But you have to use them properly. Nails have been around for thousands of years, but houses that don't use them correctly still fall down.
As the great (Dominic) Santini used to say, we still dig holes with shovels.
I agree with you until the No Way Home bit. It was spectacular on the first watch, but anything after that falls down a steep cliff. The plot makes no sense; too many characters act unlike themselves or just outright stupid for no reason, it relies way way way too heavily on the cameos (hence why it only holds up on the first watch).
TL:;DR only spectacular on first watch. It absolutely falls apart even on the first rewatch when the shock and spectacle of the cameos fade, and everything after the third time, you're wondering how they greenlit most of the script.
Yeah NWH sadly doesn’t hold up. Very very fun movie on the first watch, but I was just waiting for cameos so I barely even thought about the plot and characters. Once I did, I realized how silly it was, but I’m still happy to have the theatre experience for it
The trope thing that DNA said was spot on. Whether it’s superhero movies, anime, or books, I don’t usually get annoyed with the trope itself, but rather how it’s handled. So many stories have creative usage of tropes that makes them fun to watch. Both Marvel and DC (in terms of live action) don’t seem to understand that though. It’s just the same tropes with the same bad execution
@Emilia90 Yeah even my favorite series of all time are filled with tropes. Some handled well and some handled so abysmally bad that you need to take a step back and go "wtf am I looking at rn" but it's because everything surrounding those bits of poor execution are so spectacular that even if a poorly executed trope shows up it means little in the grand scheme of things and can be easily looked past.
Marvel these days do not have anything surrounding their poorly handled tropes abd stories for the audience to latch on to or care about at that level to offset those blunders like they did in phases 1-3.
Less of a trope blunder and more of a story/execution blunder but many hated Thor the dark world and thought it was bad. Then it was like okay but everyone still loves and cares about thor and he was great in avengers and we are excited about everything else and even to see him again so it meant hardly anything.
I thought wakanda forever is good. People said that Namor has an accurate personality to the comics? How does this ***h*le have a hero tag? I didn't watch Shang-chi but it has mixed reviews from what I've seen, No way home has a simple story but the higlight there for me is Tom's incredible performance, I never saw the Marvels but it also has mixed reviews like Shang-chi, I heard it's better than the first one, which is boring for me I never saw WandaVision, but people said it's great but ruined by the ending, I think Loki is fantastic, it's the best thing the MCU did from someone who didn't watch Guardians 3, because people keep mentioning it is the best, It's universally accepted that L&T and quantumania are terrible, though I haven't seen those Moon knight is alright, could've been way better if they didn't decide to make the mystical side be undeniably real and the kaiju fight is just not a good decision to add in I heard a lot of good things about Werewolf by night.
So overall, a mixed bag? Not really as bad, but definitely could be better. Maybe I forgot some really bad ones though idk
Technically, I think namor was an avenger at some times. He was also an international terror inspirer. Not sure if I'm allowed to use the actual word here. He should have hero, villain and antihero tags imo
Did you mean to say terrorist? They definitely need an anti-hero tag. Do the Avengers at least punish him for his crimes in the comics? No way movie Namor will be an Avenger, I just can't see it.
The comic Avengers are frequently criticized for their shifty morality and hypocrisy. Namor mostly stays Namor where he's an arrogant jerk that does what he wants. Sometimes it's aligned with their interests, so he's cool. Sometimes it's not, so they have to preach at him before they "take him down".
In one comic series run, namor turned from global terrorist to ally of the avengers. It was a good comic series but still. In case you want to read it, it's earths mightiest heroes Avengers
I think superhero movies need a new strategy beyond standard tropes and the cut and paste journey of a hero approach.
I don't think I would agree. I think the problem isn't trope reuse, I think it is execution. People were saying similar things during the Infinity saga, and yet Ant Man was a breath of fresh air, and Dr. Strange was a breath of fresh air, and Guardians was a breath of fresh air, all the while none of them were super trope-breaking movies.
People loved Winter Soldier even though in many ways it was just a classic spy thriller, just set in the MCU. It was well executed, and I think that's what mattered more. You could argue that Quantummania was far more original than Civil War, but Civil War was far better executed.
Even at the doorstep to the end of Phase three, Black Panther was a flawed but extremely successful and well-loved movie that wasn't challenging in the cinematic sense, but still fairly well executed and well acted, and had just the right amount of "message" without being preachy.
Post Infinity Saga I think Shang Chi was a good movie, Guardians 3 was a good movie, and No Way Home was of course a spectacular movie. And outside the MCU Across the Spiderverse was amazing. I think there will never be another Infinity Saga, just like I think there will never really be another Crisis on Infinite Earths, no matter how much DC comics keeps trying to recapture that feeling. But I think tropes are tropes because they work. The superhero trope isn't just a few decades old, or even a century old. They are millennia old, and we still use them because they work. But you have to use them properly. Nails have been around for thousands of years, but houses that don't use them correctly still fall down.
As the great (Dominic) Santini used to say, we still dig holes with shovels.
I agree with you until the No Way Home bit. It was spectacular on the first watch, but anything after that falls down a steep cliff. The plot makes no sense; too many characters act unlike themselves or just outright stupid for no reason, it relies way way way too heavily on the cameos (hence why it only holds up on the first watch).
TL:;DR only spectacular on first watch. It absolutely falls apart even on the first rewatch when the shock and spectacle of the cameos fade, and everything after the third time, you're wondering how they greenlit most of the script.
Yeah NWH sadly doesn’t hold up. Very very fun movie on the first watch, but I was just waiting for cameos so I barely even thought about the plot and characters. Once I did, I realized how silly it was, but I’m still happy to have the theatre experience for it
The trope thing that DNA said was spot on. Whether it’s superhero movies, anime, or books, I don’t usually get annoyed with the trope itself, but rather how it’s handled. So many stories have creative usage of tropes that makes them fun to watch. Both Marvel and DC (in terms of live action) don’t seem to understand that though. It’s just the same tropes with the same bad execution
Just out of curiousity, what are the things wrong with NWH? I thought the story is simple enough and didn’t really leave any sort of room for plot holes or any OOC stuff, or did I just miss something?
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The trope thing that DNA said was spot on. Whether it’s superhero movies, anime, or books, I don’t usually get annoyed with the trope itself, but rather how it’s handled. So many stories have creative usage of tropes that makes them fun to watch. Both Marvel and DC (in terms of live action) don’t seem to understand that though. It’s just the same tropes with the same bad execution
Yeah even my favorite series of all time are filled with tropes. Some handled well and some handled so abysmally bad that you need to take a step back and go "wtf am I looking at rn" but it's because everything surrounding those bits of poor execution are so spectacular that even if a poorly executed trope shows up it means little in the grand scheme of things and can be easily looked past.
Marvel these days do not have anything surrounding their poorly handled tropes abd stories for the audience to latch on to or care about at that level to offset those blunders like they did in phases 1-3.
Less of a trope blunder and more of a story/execution blunder but many hated Thor the dark world and thought it was bad. Then it was like okay but everyone still loves and cares about thor and he was great in avengers and we are excited about everything else and even to see him again so it meant hardly anything.