Take care my man, they can “ Take action against you account” because of this comment 👀 From what I read here in the forum of one of the admins, it sounded somewhat threatening to position yourself against
Kabam doesnt do anything of the sort if you provide feedback. Stop being an alarmist and spreading fake rumors. These isolated cases have been to users being incredibly offensive/ racist/bigoted players.
Uh
Attacks against the people who designed the content would fall under the “incredibly offensive” category he mentioned. If you’re taking personal swipes at people who put work into trying to design content just because you personally don’t like it, you deserve whatever repercussions Miike wants to throw at you.
Take care my man, they can “ Take action against you account” because of this comment 👀 From what I read here in the forum of one of the admins, it sounded somewhat threatening to position yourself against
Kabam doesnt do anything of the sort if you provide feedback. Stop being an alarmist and spreading fake rumors. These isolated cases have been to users being incredibly offensive/ racist/bigoted players.
Uh
In extreme or egregious cases, sure. They have and they will. That doesn't mean you can't disagree with the Creators or share negative feedback on what they put out. It means you have to do it in a respectful way, the same as anything else on the Forum.
Black widow is called garbage because she is. Her damage and utility aren't high enough, and as a result no one uses her.
Yet she soloes Gauntlet Korg! One of the hardest fights in the entire game.
Crazy how a garbage Champ can do that, eh
Man I wish you'd stop arguing with people. Look I respect you a lot but this is really not it, arguing Black Widow isn't trash just because she can take one really hard fight in the whole game? You know more than anyone else that good champs aren't those that can take one hard fight in the game but the ones that can take most fights in the game. Come on lol you can't be serious, you really expected people to rank up Black Widow when you thought about the challenges?
So the community can bash the CCP members challenges and very much personally attacking and apparently death threats but if they come on here defending their choices, they're the ones arguing and they should stop?
This community has hit a new low in toxicity. Y'all are absolutely ridiculous. It was bad enough people attacking Miike because of a few posts but now this? Jesus.
When have I been toxic towards Mike or any CCP member? I'm trying to have a civilized discussion right here because I, like other people who didn't send any death threats, actually have something to say cause we don't like the direction the game is heading in. Don't add me to that group of trolls and no-life edgelords, I haven't said anything disrespectful here if you want to derail the thread as per usual just say that.
You're doing it with the comment I quoted. Telling him he can't argue or give his opinion on a champion he finds useful. Why can everyone else say what they want but KM can't?
Weird how you found the comment toxic but Mike completely understood my point of view and we had a civilized discussion... Shut up and stop derailing the thread man, nobody on these forums actually likes you and there's a reason for that just look at your agree disagree ratio, go away 🤣
He's nicer than I am. I'm not derailing anything. I'm calling out the hypocrisy.
Black widow is called garbage because she is. Her damage and utility aren't high enough, and as a result no one uses her.
Yet she soloes Gauntlet Korg! One of the hardest fights in the entire game.
Crazy how a garbage Champ can do that, eh
Man I wish you'd stop arguing with people.
And I wish people would stop telling me to kill myself over an optional objective in a mobile game, but, apparently that isn't a possibility 🤷🏻♀️ Gotten lots of those, so please forgive me if I'm not in the most pleasant mood at the moment.
I'm not necessarily arguing with anyone, I'm giving my thoughts on the public forums just like everyone else is.
Black Widow can take dozens of very hard fights - and solo some of the hardest Gauntlet fights. That was literally the whole purpose of the objective, to shine a light on the classic Champs of the contest - to show that they aren't as bad as everyone thinks they are.
It wouldn't be much of a challenge if it consisted of using the best champs in the game to do a 4-year-old quest that was initially cleared with mostly 5 stars.
If most people aren't happy with this type of content then haven't you considered that perhaps you and Kabam were wrong? People don't want content like this and it's been painfully obvious since that Abs Man WoW fight came out.
the vast majority of the playerbase absolutely hates this type of content it feels like you guys are doing it out of spite even lol
Totally hear you, my man. Indeed, the vast majority of the player base doesn't enjoy this type of challenge - but there is a pretty sizeable group of players out there who have been craving content like this for a very long time, and the truth of the matter simply is, that's who this one was geared toward.
I've already seen many people say "oh man, these looked a lot more ridiculous before I tried them, had a bit of a knee-jerk reaction" and lots of "I can't believe Black Widow was the MVP" - that last one in particular has been pretty cool to see.
Believe it or not, there are also lots of players who enjoyed Absorbing Man in his current form. Obviously, for the overall health of the game, I hope he's heavily adjusted before he returns to the Gauntlet - since that is content that is meant for the majority of the player base to be able to complete, and it is clearly wildly overtuned.
But, regardless, I can assure you that nothing is done out of spite - I wouldn't waste my time doing something like that haha
Juiced up abs-man should therefore be adjusted now not just before he returns to the Gauntlet.
Doesn’t anyone who designs game content like WoW Abs-Man actually test it before releasing it?
This one form of content has done more brand damage to this game than anything since version 12 nerfs.
When a game loses its fun, its enjoyment and content starts making players mad with rage then something is seriously wrong with that game. (I made a video about my WoW experience and it’s had over 100 comments from various players ranging in progression level and age and they are really pissed off with this particular design of content).
@Wicket329 much love, dude - super glad to hear you enjoyed!
Really wish i could do these challenges...Unfortunatetly i don't have much revivies or units in my inventory----( Mainly looking for that 7*rank up gem for my juggs.( current 2ND fav champ in game behind ibom) Lagacy's are fun and enjoyable. Your zemo one is fun and enjoyable. Classic threat is boring, but doable. Fintech's however is just a cash grab.
Black widow is called garbage because she is. Her damage and utility aren't high enough, and as a result no one uses her.
Yet she soloes Gauntlet Korg! One of the hardest fights in the entire game.
Crazy how a garbage Champ can do that, eh
Man I wish you'd stop arguing with people. Look I respect you a lot but this is really not it, arguing Black Widow isn't trash just because she can take one really hard fight in the whole game? You know more than anyone else that good champs aren't those that can take one hard fight in the game but the ones that can take most fights in the game. Come on lol you can't be serious, you really expected people to rank up Black Widow when you thought about the challenges?
So the community can bash the CCP members challenges and very much personally attacking and apparently death threats but if they come on here defending their choices, they're the ones arguing and they should stop?
This community has hit a new low in toxicity. Y'all are absolutely ridiculous. It was bad enough people attacking Miike because of a few posts but now this? Jesus.
When have I been toxic towards Mike or any CCP member? I'm trying to have a civilized discussion right here because I, like other people who didn't send any death threats, actually have something to say cause we don't like the direction the game is heading in. Don't add me to that group of trolls and no-life edgelords, I haven't said anything disrespectful here if you want to derail the thread as per usual just say that.
You're doing it with the comment I quoted. Telling him he can't argue or give his opinion on a champion he finds useful. Why can everyone else say what they want but KM can't?
Weird how you found the comment toxic but Mike completely understood my point of view and we had a civilized discussion... Shut up and stop derailing the thread man, nobody on these forums actually likes you and there's a reason for that just look at your agree disagree ratio, go away 🤣
He's nicer than I am. I'm not derailing anything. I'm calling out the hypocrisy.
OR hear me out, my comment wasn't toxic at all hence Mike's response, you're just trying to derail the thread as per usual.
Black widow is called garbage because she is. Her damage and utility aren't high enough, and as a result no one uses her.
Yet she soloes Gauntlet Korg! One of the hardest fights in the entire game.
Crazy how a garbage Champ can do that, eh
Man I wish you'd stop arguing with people.
And I wish people would stop telling me to kill myself over an optional objective in a mobile game, but, apparently that isn't a possibility 🤷🏻♀️ Gotten lots of those, so please forgive me if I'm not in the most pleasant mood at the moment.
I'm not necessarily arguing with anyone, I'm giving my thoughts on the public forums just like everyone else is.
Black Widow can take dozens of very hard fights - and solo some of the hardest Gauntlet fights. That was literally the whole purpose of the objective, to shine a light on the classic Champs of the contest - to show that they aren't as bad as everyone thinks they are.
It wouldn't be much of a challenge if it consisted of using the best champs in the game to do a 4-year-old quest that was initially cleared with mostly 5 stars.
If most people aren't happy with this type of content then haven't you considered that perhaps you and Kabam were wrong? People don't want content like this and it's been painfully obvious since that Abs Man WoW fight came out.
the vast majority of the playerbase absolutely hates this type of content it feels like you guys are doing it out of spite even lol
Totally hear you, my man. Indeed, the vast majority of the player base doesn't enjoy this type of challenge - but there is a pretty sizeable group of players out there who have been craving content like this for a very long time, and the truth of the matter simply is, that's who this one was geared toward.
I've already seen many people say "oh man, these looked a lot more ridiculous before I tried them, had a bit of a knee-jerk reaction" and lots of "I can't believe Black Widow was the MVP" - that last one in particular has been pretty cool to see.
Believe it or not, there are also lots of players who enjoyed Absorbing Man in his current form. Obviously, for the overall health of the game, I hope he's heavily adjusted before he returns to the Gauntlet - since that is content that is meant for the majority of the player base to be able to complete, and it is clearly wildly overtuned.
But, regardless, I can assure you that nothing is done out of spite - I wouldn't waste my time doing something like that haha
Fair enough, I understand. I guess I probably wouldn't be concerned if we weren't getting so much challenging extremely unfun content lately so that's probably why I feel the way I feel about the game at the moment.
I think this is the crux of it. You say all this content has been “extremely unfun,” and I believe you that you aren’t enjoying it. But I absolutely love this stuff. These challenges are what I play for. I know I’m in the minority, I know I’m about to get disagreed into oblivion, but these kinds of challenges, including WoW Abs Man, are why I play this game.
I absolutely understand that I’m in the minority opinion on this. I’m not gonna try to change anybody else’s mind and make them love this stuff. But the game just got Necropolis. That’s the average-player-friendly level of endgame content, and it’s a massive piece of content with the best rewards currently available in game. Let the masochists like me have these challenges for our fun too.
@Karatemike415 you did great work, thank you to all three of you who took the time to think through up these challenges. This stuff rules.
Well, unfortunately yes 90% of the playerbase doesn't enjoy that type of content that's why I and other people are worried about the game. If every single WoW fight is going to be just as unbearable as Abs Man I don't know if I'll even have the energy to do the fights. I understand releasing this type of content here and there but if that's all we're getting the rest of the year I'll probably just quit and come back next year. Can I do this type of content? Absolutely, however it feels more like a chore to me and I absolutely hate that, it's not fun for me personally. We'll see, I hope they listened to all the Abs Man feedback as well as the feedback for these challenges, wouldn't make sense to make every single fight unbearable and stressful for the rest of the year when so many people hate this type of content.
@Karatemike415 I appreciate that these challenges are geared towards the most endgame players who love playing these types of challenging content but I would consider myself one of those players as well as KT1 and even Swedeah who is amazing, doesn't want to do these challenges.
I want to preface this with the fact that I usually love challenging content. I loved necropolis and created one of the first guides for exploration, I even liked the abyss carina challenges and thought they were fun, and I really like Lagacy's carina challenge design too. Hell, I'm one of the nutters who did the Winter of woe absorbing man robot challenge and actually enjoyed it with my r1 guilly. I really do like challenge content, as do many of my friends in this game, so I think it's fair to say that this content is geared towards a player exactly like me.
I have two main problems though with this kind of content:
1. These challenges are not possible to do itemlessly. I've always said that a good challenge should be tough but fair. Necro was possible to do revive-less, as was the winter of woe objectives etc. But some of these challenges are pretty much impossible to do itemlessly, and seeing even the best players having revive counters in the double digits just feels like an item drain for no reason such as the incredibly annoying 4 star labyrinth carina's challenges (the only ones that I didn't do).
2. Fintech and your challenges require very specific teams/champions ranked at pretty much the highest level. This is a game with tons of champions to choose from so restricting players to just one champion that they may not even like just feels a bit crazy to me. Personally with the avengers ones I actually like playing most of the champions on that team as I stated previously, but I really hate playing mojo. Plus, I don't have a 7 star version (even though I spent money on the valentines sales for him) so I now have to rank up my 6 star to r5 to even be able to do this challenge with a somewhat reasonable revive counter and I don't even like playing him. That is a terrible feeling tbh. It's the same story with baron zemo.
And the main problem with all this is that the rewards do not justify the rank up costs of all these champions. I know Kabam is responsible for the rewards, but once you heard they were, frankly terrible especially in comparison to necropolis and winter of woe, both of which seem to be easier than these challenges, surely you could have toned down the difficulty a bit. Or at least we should be given back the resources spent to rank up these champions via rewards from the other challenges. Kabam Miike stated that these were designed for the top 1% of players but it's actually the top 0.001% which seems kind of silly to me.
Black widow is called garbage because she is. Her damage and utility aren't high enough, and as a result no one uses her.
Yet she soloes Gauntlet Korg! One of the hardest fights in the entire game.
Crazy how a garbage Champ can do that, eh
Man I wish you'd stop arguing with people.
And I wish people would stop telling me to kill myself over an optional objective in a mobile game, but, apparently that isn't a possibility 🤷🏻♀️ Gotten lots of those, so please forgive me if I'm not in the most pleasant mood at the moment.
I'm not necessarily arguing with anyone, I'm giving my thoughts on the public forums just like everyone else is.
Black Widow can take dozens of very hard fights - and solo some of the hardest Gauntlet fights. That was literally the whole purpose of the objective, to shine a light on the classic Champs of the contest - to show that they aren't as bad as everyone thinks they are.
It wouldn't be much of a challenge if it consisted of using the best champs in the game to do a 4-year-old quest that was initially cleared with mostly 5 stars.
If most people aren't happy with this type of content then haven't you considered that perhaps you and Kabam were wrong? People don't want content like this and it's been painfully obvious since that Abs Man WoW fight came out.
the vast majority of the playerbase absolutely hates this type of content it feels like you guys are doing it out of spite even lol
Totally hear you, my man. Indeed, the vast majority of the player base doesn't enjoy this type of challenge - but there is a pretty sizeable group of players out there who have been craving content like this for a very long time, and the truth of the matter simply is, that's who this one was geared toward.
I've already seen many people say "oh man, these looked a lot more ridiculous before I tried them, had a bit of a knee-jerk reaction" and lots of "I can't believe Black Widow was the MVP" - that last one in particular has been pretty cool to see.
Believe it or not, there are also lots of players who enjoyed Absorbing Man in his current form. Obviously, for the overall health of the game, I hope he's heavily adjusted before he returns to the Gauntlet - since that is content that is meant for the majority of the player base to be able to complete, and it is clearly wildly overtuned.
But, regardless, I can assure you that nothing is done out of spite - I wouldn't waste my time doing something like that haha
Fair enough, I understand. I guess I probably wouldn't be concerned if we weren't getting so much challenging extremely unfun content lately so that's probably why I feel the way I feel about the game at the moment.
I think this is the crux of it. You say all this content has been “extremely unfun,” and I believe you that you aren’t enjoying it. But I absolutely love this stuff. These challenges are what I play for. I know I’m in the minority, I know I’m about to get disagreed into oblivion, but these kinds of challenges, including WoW Abs Man, are why I play this game.
I absolutely understand that I’m in the minority opinion on this. I’m not gonna try to change anybody else’s mind and make them love this stuff. But the game just got Necropolis. That’s the average-player-friendly level of endgame content, and it’s a massive piece of content with the best rewards currently available in game. Let the masochists like me have these challenges for our fun too.
@Karatemike415 you did great work, thank you to all three of you who took the time to think through up these challenges. This stuff rules.
Well, unfortunately yes 90% of the playerbase doesn't enjoy that type of content that's why I and other people are worried about the game. If every single WoW fight is going to be just as unbearable as Abs Man I don't know if I'll even have the energy to do the fights. I understand releasing this type of content here and there but if that's all we're getting the rest of the year I'll probably just quit and come back next year. Can I do this type of content? Absolutely, however it feels more like a chore to me and I absolutely hate that, it's not fun for me personally. We'll see, I hope they listened to all the Abs Man feedback as well as the feedback for these challenges, wouldn't make sense to make every single fight unbearable and stressful for the rest of the year when so many people hate this type of content.
So then this entire explosive reaction (not characterizing your specific reaction as explosive, but the community’s in general) isn’t based on this set of Carina’s Challenges, but a fear of content difficulty going forward?
If that’s the case, then it’s premature and not well-founded. Premature because we haven’t seen what the other fights are going to look like yet, and so to have such a dramatic response to a hypothetical is insane. Not well founded because in Kabam’s announcement about the #Robot issue and other pain points around the Abs Man fight, the reason given for not adjusting energy usage yet is because other upcoming fights are not expected to be as difficult as this one and they want to see how the energy cost works when the fight isn’t so punishing.
To be super clear, I’m not defending the energy cost. But that statement should tell people that Kabam is expecting future fights to require fewer attempts than Abs Man has.
I’d also, once again, point out that 1) the Carina’s Challenges are permanent and so it shouldn’t matter when they were released (I know that psychologically this player base sees shiny and must have shiny, but maybe don’t come after the people who made it when shiny is hard to get), and 2) the Carina’s Challenge rewards aren’t even anything game changing. S2099, Sparky, and Masacre are good, fun champs, but they aren’t gonna make or break anybody’s experience. The rewards here aren’t getting anybody over the line to Valiant. These champs will have exactly the same value in a year or two as they do now, you don’t need to rush this content while trying to do WoW. It can wait.
Good that atleast Fin isn't trying to justify his challenge or the champs in it. Once the challenge is made, take the feedback and move on. Establishing good or bad champ is personal preference, so arguing on black widow isn't worth it.
If someone puts Cyclops in a challenge that doesn't mean we force eveyone to take him as perfect counter for say havok on the path or call him the best for the challenge.
Good that atleast Fin isn't trying to justify his challenge or the champs in it. Once the challenge is made, take the feedback and move on. Establishing good or bad champ is personal preference, so arguing on black widow isn't worth it.
If someone puts Cyclops in a challenge that doesn't mean we force eveyone to take him as perfect counter for say havok on the path or call him the best for the challenge.
This is a good point. The point of these challenges isn’t “these champs are the best possible options for these fights,” it’s “isn’t it cool that these overlooked champs can handle these fights well?”
Good that atleast Fin isn't trying to justify his challenge or the champs in it. Once the challenge is made, take the feedback and move on. Establishing good or bad champ is personal preference, so arguing on black widow isn't worth it.
If someone puts Cyclops in a challenge that doesn't mean we force eveyone to take him as perfect counter for say havok on the path or call him the best for the challenge.
This is a good point. The point of these challenges isn’t “these champs are the best possible options for these fights,” it’s “isn’t it cool that these overlooked champs can handle these fights well?”
I am all for that kind of showcase of underused champions. But I shouldn't be forced to rank up a single champion that I don't like playing - that's far too specific. What would be much better is if they gave you a few options of champions that are 'overlooked' and then players would have a better chance of having those champs and could pick the one they liked to rank up for a challenge. Also a lot of these challenges require that champion (e.g. mojo or zemo etc) to be at R5 and/or ascended which is fine if you like that champion but feels bad if you dislike their playstyle. After all there are 200 or so champions in this game now, limiting a players option to 1 champion is silly, at least give 3 or 4 options.
Good that atleast Fin isn't trying to justify his challenge or the champs in it. Once the challenge is made, take the feedback and move on. Establishing good or bad champ is personal preference, so arguing on black widow isn't worth it.
If someone puts Cyclops in a challenge that doesn't mean we force eveyone to take him as perfect counter for say havok on the path or call him the best for the challenge.
This is a good point. The point of these challenges isn’t “these champs are the best possible options for these fights,” it’s “isn’t it cool that these overlooked champs can handle these fights well?”
I am all for that kind of showcase of underused champions. But I shouldn't be forced to rank up a single champion that I don't like playing - that's far too specific. What would be much better is if they gave you a few options of champions that are 'overlooked' and then players would have a better chance of having those champs and could pick the one they liked to rank up for a challenge. Also a lot of these challenges require that champion (e.g. mojo or zemo etc) to be at R5 and/or ascended which is fine if you like that champion but feels bad if you dislike their playstyle. After all there are 200 or so champions in this game now, limiting a players option to 1 champion is silly, at least give 3 or 4 options.
Gauntlet was released when R3 champs were the pinnacle of the game. R3 materials are insanely abundant right now. If you choose to rank the champions for the Gauntlet challenges beyond that, that’s a personal decision and not a requirement for the content. And if R3ing a handful of champs is too expensive materials-wise for you, then you aren’t who this content is targeting.
EOP was released when R4 champs were the top of the food chain, and even then they weren’t super abundant. I mostly used R3 champs for those fights, but R4s where I could. I’d recommend at least an R4 for the nature of the challenge. But beyond that is, again, a personal decision.
These challenges don’t *require* those rank ups. It’s just a decision you have to make whether you’d rather spend revives or materials. The difference between an R1 and an R3 is massive, obviously, but the difference between an R3 and R4? Not nearly so overwhelming. Throw some boosts at an R3 and you’ll be just as comfortable.
Good that atleast Fin isn't trying to justify his challenge or the champs in it. Once the challenge is made, take the feedback and move on. Establishing good or bad champ is personal preference, so arguing on black widow isn't worth it.
If someone puts Cyclops in a challenge that doesn't mean we force eveyone to take him as perfect counter for say havok on the path or call him the best for the challenge.
This is a good point. The point of these challenges isn’t “these champs are the best possible options for these fights,” it’s “isn’t it cool that these overlooked champs can handle these fights well?”
I am all for that kind of showcase of underused champions. But I shouldn't be forced to rank up a single champion that I don't like playing - that's far too specific. What would be much better is if they gave you a few options of champions that are 'overlooked' and then players would have a better chance of having those champs and could pick the one they liked to rank up for a challenge. Also a lot of these challenges require that champion (e.g. mojo or zemo etc) to be at R5 and/or ascended which is fine if you like that champion but feels bad if you dislike their playstyle. After all there are 200 or so champions in this game now, limiting a players option to 1 champion is silly, at least give 3 or 4 options.
Gauntlet was released when R3 champs were the pinnacle of the game. R3 materials are insanely abundant right now. If you choose to rank the champions for the Gauntlet challenges beyond that, that’s a personal decision and not a requirement for the content. And if R3ing a handful of champs is too expensive materials-wise for you, then you aren’t who this content is targeting.
EOP was released when R4 champs were the top of the food chain, and even then they weren’t super abundant. I mostly used R3 champs for those fights, but R4s where I could. I’d recommend at least an R4 for the nature of the challenge. But beyond that is, again, a personal decision.
These challenges don’t *require* those rank ups. It’s just a decision you have to make whether you’d rather spend revives or materials. The difference between an R1 and an R3 is massive, obviously, but the difference between an R3 and R4? Not nearly so overwhelming. Throw some boosts at an R3 and you’ll be just as comfortable.
This makes no sense at all. There is a HUGE difference in item cost between using a team of 5 6 star r3 champions such as herc kitty hulk archangel etc and then just one 6 star r3 baron zemo for gauntlet, and furthermore you have to fight a domino with him.
Similarly, we did the EOP original carina challenges with r3s but could use juggs and other great champs. Now all we have is a stupid mojo who I hate playing, and as a consequence of that am not good with him. No player would be able to get through the EOP challenge within a reasonable number of revives using a r3 6 star mojo.
I am tired of people using the classic line: "you're not who this content is targeting". It's being used to counter to literally every player who has a grievance with these challenges including swedeah who is one of the best players at this game. And I am exactly who this challenge is targeting, but I don't want to do them because the rewards to effort/spend ratio is abysmal. I have 3 r3 7 stars, and a massive roster, not to mention I would consider myself skilled as I have beaten the biggest accounts in bgs like magus/usafa and the best players like beroman.
Good that atleast Fin isn't trying to justify his challenge or the champs in it. Once the challenge is made, take the feedback and move on. Establishing good or bad champ is personal preference, so arguing on black widow isn't worth it.
If someone puts Cyclops in a challenge that doesn't mean we force eveyone to take him as perfect counter for say havok on the path or call him the best for the challenge.
This is a good point. The point of these challenges isn’t “these champs are the best possible options for these fights,” it’s “isn’t it cool that these overlooked champs can handle these fights well?”
I am all for that kind of showcase of underused champions. But I shouldn't be forced to rank up a single champion that I don't like playing - that's far too specific. What would be much better is if they gave you a few options of champions that are 'overlooked' and then players would have a better chance of having those champs and could pick the one they liked to rank up for a challenge. Also a lot of these challenges require that champion (e.g. mojo or zemo etc) to be at R5 and/or ascended which is fine if you like that champion but feels bad if you dislike their playstyle. After all there are 200 or so champions in this game now, limiting a players option to 1 champion is silly, at least give 3 or 4 options.
Gauntlet was released when R3 champs were the pinnacle of the game. R3 materials are insanely abundant right now. If you choose to rank the champions for the Gauntlet challenges beyond that, that’s a personal decision and not a requirement for the content. And if R3ing a handful of champs is too expensive materials-wise for you, then you aren’t who this content is targeting.
EOP was released when R4 champs were the top of the food chain, and even then they weren’t super abundant. I mostly used R3 champs for those fights, but R4s where I could. I’d recommend at least an R4 for the nature of the challenge. But beyond that is, again, a personal decision.
These challenges don’t *require* those rank ups. It’s just a decision you have to make whether you’d rather spend revives or materials. The difference between an R1 and an R3 is massive, obviously, but the difference between an R3 and R4? Not nearly so overwhelming. Throw some boosts at an R3 and you’ll be just as comfortable.
I see this narrative that gauntlet was released when r3 champs were the highest. But the champs you would use in gauntlet when it was released are not the same as what we have to use for the challenge. I used apoc, magneto, archangel, prof x and namor when it was released the first time. Other than iron man, none of the avengers are any better than the team I used, in fact some of them are actually far too inferior. It’s of course personal choice to rank them up higher than r3 just like it’s a personal choice to even do these challenges but I don’t think the narrative that at r3, you can as easily accomplish this challenge as with the best counters for gauntlet at r3 is just false.
Good that atleast Fin isn't trying to justify his challenge or the champs in it. Once the challenge is made, take the feedback and move on. Establishing good or bad champ is personal preference, so arguing on black widow isn't worth it.
If someone puts Cyclops in a challenge that doesn't mean we force eveyone to take him as perfect counter for say havok on the path or call him the best for the challenge.
This is a good point. The point of these challenges isn’t “these champs are the best possible options for these fights,” it’s “isn’t it cool that these overlooked champs can handle these fights well?”
I am all for that kind of showcase of underused champions. But I shouldn't be forced to rank up a single champion that I don't like playing - that's far too specific. What would be much better is if they gave you a few options of champions that are 'overlooked' and then players would have a better chance of having those champs and could pick the one they liked to rank up for a challenge. Also a lot of these challenges require that champion (e.g. mojo or zemo etc) to be at R5 and/or ascended which is fine if you like that champion but feels bad if you dislike their playstyle. After all there are 200 or so champions in this game now, limiting a players option to 1 champion is silly, at least give 3 or 4 options.
Gauntlet was released when R3 champs were the pinnacle of the game. R3 materials are insanely abundant right now. If you choose to rank the champions for the Gauntlet challenges beyond that, that’s a personal decision and not a requirement for the content. And if R3ing a handful of champs is too expensive materials-wise for you, then you aren’t who this content is targeting.
EOP was released when R4 champs were the top of the food chain, and even then they weren’t super abundant. I mostly used R3 champs for those fights, but R4s where I could. I’d recommend at least an R4 for the nature of the challenge. But beyond that is, again, a personal decision.
These challenges don’t *require* those rank ups. It’s just a decision you have to make whether you’d rather spend revives or materials. The difference between an R1 and an R3 is massive, obviously, but the difference between an R3 and R4? Not nearly so overwhelming. Throw some boosts at an R3 and you’ll be just as comfortable.
This makes no sense at all. There is a HUGE difference in item cost between using a team of 5 6 star r3 champions such as herc kitty hulk archangel etc and then just one 6 star r3 baron zemo for gauntlet, and furthermore you have to fight a domino with him.
Similarly, we did the EOP original carina challenges with r3s but could use juggs and other great champs. Now all we have is a stupid mojo who I hate playing, and as a consequence of that am not good with him. No player would be able to get through the EOP challenge within a reasonable number of revives using a r3 6 star mojo.
I am tired of people using the classic line: "you're not who this content is targeting". It's being used to counter to literally every player who has a grievance with these challenges including swedeah who is one of the best players at this game. And I am exactly who this challenge is targeting, but I don't want to do them because the rewards to effort/spend ratio is abysmal. I have 3 r3 7 stars, and a massive roster, not to mention I would consider myself skilled as I have beaten the biggest accounts in bgs like magus/usafa and the best players like beroman.
I may not have made my point clearly, that’s on me. For the EOP objectives, when I say “I’d recommend at least an R4 based on the nature of the challenge,” I’m agreeing with you that because it’s a non-optimal matchup, it’s sensible to use a champ at a higher rank than we would have previously. Like my Juggs was only R3 when I did the All Juggs run of the EOP final quest, but I agree that using only an R3 Tigra or Mojo would be painful.
My comment about who the content was targeting was not meant to be directed at you as an individual. Gotta love English not differentiating between you in the singular or plural. I meant that in the sense of “if you are not at the point in the game where R3 materials are abundant, then you still have room to go before these challenges are relevant to you.” You, as an individual, are obviously at that point. But somebody who is still struggling to build out their roster, like the person I describe in the quotes above, isn’t.
I think the champs that I’d recommend taking to R4 or higher for this series of challenges would be Mojo, Tigra, and Zemo, with Jabari getting an honorable mention. She doesn’t really have to do the fights, she’s just an optional, so she could be fine at R3 or not ranked at all and just used for the synergy. But BW, Thor, Iron Man, Ant Man, and Hawkeye could all do their part at just R3 if needed. Rank Iron Man higher though, he’s so good and you won’t regret it.
Good that atleast Fin isn't trying to justify his challenge or the champs in it. Once the challenge is made, take the feedback and move on. Establishing good or bad champ is personal preference, so arguing on black widow isn't worth it.
If someone puts Cyclops in a challenge that doesn't mean we force eveyone to take him as perfect counter for say havok on the path or call him the best for the challenge.
This is a good point. The point of these challenges isn’t “these champs are the best possible options for these fights,” it’s “isn’t it cool that these overlooked champs can handle these fights well?”
I am all for that kind of showcase of underused champions. But I shouldn't be forced to rank up a single champion that I don't like playing - that's far too specific. What would be much better is if they gave you a few options of champions that are 'overlooked' and then players would have a better chance of having those champs and could pick the one they liked to rank up for a challenge. Also a lot of these challenges require that champion (e.g. mojo or zemo etc) to be at R5 and/or ascended which is fine if you like that champion but feels bad if you dislike their playstyle. After all there are 200 or so champions in this game now, limiting a players option to 1 champion is silly, at least give 3 or 4 options.
Gauntlet was released when R3 champs were the pinnacle of the game. R3 materials are insanely abundant right now. If you choose to rank the champions for the Gauntlet challenges beyond that, that’s a personal decision and not a requirement for the content. And if R3ing a handful of champs is too expensive materials-wise for you, then you aren’t who this content is targeting.
EOP was released when R4 champs were the top of the food chain, and even then they weren’t super abundant. I mostly used R3 champs for those fights, but R4s where I could. I’d recommend at least an R4 for the nature of the challenge. But beyond that is, again, a personal decision.
These challenges don’t *require* those rank ups. It’s just a decision you have to make whether you’d rather spend revives or materials. The difference between an R1 and an R3 is massive, obviously, but the difference between an R3 and R4? Not nearly so overwhelming. Throw some boosts at an R3 and you’ll be just as comfortable.
I see this narrative that gauntlet was released when r3 champs were the highest. But the champs you would use in gauntlet when it was released are not the same as what we have to use for the challenge. I used apoc, magneto, archangel, prof x and namor when it was released the first time. Other than iron man, none of the avengers are any better than the team I used, in fact some of them are actually far too inferior. It’s of course personal choice to rank them up higher than r3 just like it’s a personal choice to even do these challenges but I don’t think the narrative that at r3, you can as easily accomplish this challenge as with the best counters for gauntlet at r3 is just false.
Oh no I absolutely agree it won’t be “as easy” as with the top options. But that’s why it’s a challenge. I’m only saying that R3 is the minimum point where I’d say “yeah, this is doable without access to revive farming.”
I’m probably gonna run BW and Antman at R3, but I’m playing with the idea of taking Thor to R4 just for the combat power rate against Vision. Antman would go up if he didn’t exist as a 7* already, I actually rate him really highly. And, I can’t believe I’m saying this, I luckily have an awakened 7* Hawkeye. Iron Man’s already R5 and has been since his buff because he rules.
Same kind of idea for Zemo. Doable at R3 without revive farming, but you’ll still want to go in with a full inventory just in case. R4 is definitely more comfortable, and I’ll be taking him up to at least that, maybe even R5 because I’ve been needing to rank up a skill champ and Zemo is very good on both sides of the line.
But no, you’re 100% right that it won’t be “as easy” with a team of non-optimal R3 champs as it was with the best champs in the game.
Black widow is called garbage because she is. Her damage and utility aren't high enough, and as a result no one uses her.
Yet she soloes Gauntlet Korg! One of the hardest fights in the entire game.
Crazy how a garbage Champ can do that, eh
Man I wish you'd stop arguing with people.
And I wish people would stop telling me to kill myself over an optional objective in a mobile game, but, apparently that isn't a possibility 🤷🏻♀️ Gotten lots of those, so please forgive me if I'm not in the most pleasant mood at the moment.
I'm not necessarily arguing with anyone, I'm giving my thoughts on the public forums just like everyone else is.
Black Widow can take dozens of very hard fights - and solo some of the hardest Gauntlet fights. That was literally the whole purpose of the objective, to shine a light on the classic Champs of the contest - to show that they aren't as bad as everyone thinks they are.
It wouldn't be much of a challenge if it consisted of using the best champs in the game to do a 4-year-old quest that was initially cleared with mostly 5 stars.
If most people aren't happy with this type of content then haven't you considered that perhaps you and Kabam were wrong? People don't want content like this and it's been painfully obvious since that Abs Man WoW fight came out.
the vast majority of the playerbase absolutely hates this type of content it feels like you guys are doing it out of spite even lol
Totally hear you, my man. Indeed, the vast majority of the player base doesn't enjoy this type of challenge - but there is a pretty sizeable group of players out there who have been craving content like this for a very long time, and the truth of the matter simply is, that's who this one was geared toward.
I've already seen many people say "oh man, these looked a lot more ridiculous before I tried them, had a bit of a knee-jerk reaction" and lots of "I can't believe Black Widow was the MVP" - that last one in particular has been pretty cool to see.
Believe it or not, there are also lots of players who enjoyed Absorbing Man in his current form. Obviously, for the overall health of the game, I hope he's heavily adjusted before he returns to the Gauntlet - since that is content that is meant for the majority of the player base to be able to complete, and it is clearly wildly overtuned.
But, regardless, I can assure you that nothing is done out of spite - I wouldn't waste my time doing something like that haha
Fair enough, I understand. I guess I probably wouldn't be concerned if we weren't getting so much challenging extremely unfun content lately so that's probably why I feel the way I feel about the game at the moment.
I think this is the crux of it. You say all this content has been “extremely unfun,” and I believe you that you aren’t enjoying it. But I absolutely love this stuff. These challenges are what I play for. I know I’m in the minority, I know I’m about to get disagreed into oblivion, but these kinds of challenges, including WoW Abs Man, are why I play this game.
I absolutely understand that I’m in the minority opinion on this. I’m not gonna try to change anybody else’s mind and make them love this stuff. But the game just got Necropolis. That’s the average-player-friendly level of endgame content, and it’s a massive piece of content with the best rewards currently available in game. Let the masochists like me have these challenges for our fun too.
@Karatemike415 you did great work, thank you to all three of you who took the time to think through up these challenges. This stuff rules.
Well, unfortunately yes 90% of the playerbase doesn't enjoy that type of content that's why I and other people are worried about the game. If every single WoW fight is going to be just as unbearable as Abs Man I don't know if I'll even have the energy to do the fights. I understand releasing this type of content here and there but if that's all we're getting the rest of the year I'll probably just quit and come back next year. Can I do this type of content? Absolutely, however it feels more like a chore to me and I absolutely hate that, it's not fun for me personally. We'll see, I hope they listened to all the Abs Man feedback as well as the feedback for these challenges, wouldn't make sense to make every single fight unbearable and stressful for the rest of the year when so many people hate this type of content.
So then this entire explosive reaction (not characterizing your specific reaction as explosive, but the community’s in general) isn’t based on this set of Carina’s Challenges, but a fear of content difficulty going forward?
If that’s the case, then it’s premature and not well-founded. Premature because we haven’t seen what the other fights are going to look like yet, and so to have such a dramatic response to a hypothetical is insane. Not well founded because in Kabam’s announcement about the #Robot issue and other pain points around the Abs Man fight, the reason given for not adjusting energy usage yet is because other upcoming fights are not expected to be as difficult as this one and they want to see how the energy cost works when the fight isn’t so punishing.
To be super clear, I’m not defending the energy cost. But that statement should tell people that Kabam is expecting future fights to require fewer attempts than Abs Man has.
I’d also, once again, point out that 1) the Carina’s Challenges are permanent and so it shouldn’t matter when they were released (I know that psychologically this player base sees shiny and must have shiny, but maybe don’t come after the people who made it when shiny is hard to get), and 2) the Carina’s Challenge rewards aren’t even anything game changing. S2099, Sparky, and Masacre are good, fun champs, but they aren’t gonna make or break anybody’s experience. The rewards here aren’t getting anybody over the line to Valiant. These champs will have exactly the same value in a year or two as they do now, you don’t need to rush this content while trying to do WoW. It can wait.
It is based on this set of challenges did you read what I typed? First WoW Abs Man now this. It is well founded, if you don't see the pattern that's more of a you issue.
Again, game changing or not it's still a 7* selector with champs that aren't in the basic or Titan pool, it's a meaningful reward. Locking them behind content almost nobody likes doing is dumb. I understand you enjoy this type of content but 90% of the playerbase does not, why are we getting so much of this content lately? It makes absolutely no sense.
Again, this isn't about rushing or not, I could rank up Tigra and Jabari and do the whole thing this month if I wanted to. It's the fact that the content is frustrating and boring, which you seem to like for some weird reason.
When it comes to ranking up champions, people seem to forget that you don't necessarily have to rank them up past where you're comfortable using resources on them. Will I rank 5 OG Black Widow? No, I doubt it. But rank 4 her? Yeah, absolutely. I'll just boost up to make up the difference. Just pick up the 1K unit offer after completing the EQ and you're golden.
It is also worth pointing out that OG Black Widow, at max sig, has what is arguably the strongest version of the strongest and most broken ability (defensive ability accuracy reduction) in the entire game. Better than Falcon's. Better than Black Cat's. Better than Crossbones'. She shuts down 80% of everything that can ever happen when you strike the opponent. Up to 95% against Science champions. As long as the opponent isn't inherently immune to ability accuracy reduction or there's a node that makes them so.
That's absolutely bananas. If she punished all of those failed effects similar to how Black Cat does it, she would probably be overpowered. There's no build-up, no cooldown, no reliance on buffs or debuffs. She just doesn't care what the defender throws at her.
This doesn't make her a god-tier champion since she lacks in other areas, but it does make her a very interesting champion to build a challenge around.
When it comes to champion restrictions, well, sometimes you just have to bite the bullet. But that has always been the case. I remember ranking up a bunch of X-Men champions for a Carina's Challenge a few years ago. Just like now, I only ranked them up as far as I was comfortable given my resources and then boosted up to make up the difference. In the end, it was actually kind of fun to use them. Hopefully that'll be the same now that I rank up these Avengers champions.
I'm already eyeing my 7* Ant-Man as a potential rank-up. While I'm perhaps not the biggest fan of him on attack, he's really proven his worth on Battlegrounds defense since he just slows down my opponents with his incessant glancing. I was considering ranking him up even before these challenges came into the game, and would have already done so if r2 resources were just a little bit more available. (Same with Jabari, for that matter.)
@Ercarret lets not get carried away here. BW does it at sig 200. All others do it out of the box. And falcon definitely is better except for the cooldown. BW is easy to use at max sig but purely from daar standpoint but to say she has a better daar then others is forgetting and ignoring the other aspects of the champs.
@Ercarret lets not get carried away here. BW does it at sig 200. All others do it out of the box. And falcon definitely is better except for the cooldown. BW is easy to use at max sig but purely from daar standpoint but to say she has a better daar then others is forgetting and ignoring the other aspects of the champs.
I don't care about it requiring high sig. 200 sig stones are dirt cheap nowadays. It's a non-issue, in my opinion. At least when it comes to Carina's Challenge prep.
As for Falcon, I consider his cooldown a massive downside. For 8 seconds every 24 seconds, you have absolutely no safety net and have to dance around while you wait for the cooldown to end. Meanwhile, OGBW can just keep up her DAAR indefinitely.
I'm not saying she's a better champion than Falcon. Or Black Cat, or Crossbones. She's obviously not. All I'm saying is that as soon as you've sig'd her up, she doesn't have to do anything to activate her DAAR. Every other champion needs to activate it somehow and then it either undoubtably falls off at some point (Falcon) or it risks falling off at some point (Crossbones and Black Cat). Having between 80 and 95% DAAR from the first second of the fight to the last without having to do something is insane. There's a reason why every other champion with a similar ability has an asterisk next to it of some kind.
@Ercarret lets not get carried away here. BW does it at sig 200. All others do it out of the box. And falcon definitely is better except for the cooldown. BW is easy to use at max sig but purely from daar standpoint but to say she has a better daar then others is forgetting and ignoring the other aspects of the champs.
I don't care about it requiring high sig. 200 sig stones are dirt cheap nowadays. It's a non-issue, in my opinion. At least when it comes to Carina's Challenge prep.
As for Falcon, I consider his cooldown a massive downside. For 8 seconds every 24 seconds, you have absolutely no safety net and have to dance around while you wait for the cooldown to end. Meanwhile, OGBW can just keep up her DAAR indefinitely.
I'm not saying she's a better champion than Falcon. Or Black Cat, or Crossbones. She's obviously not. All I'm saying is that as soon as you've sig'd her up, she doesn't have to do anything to activate her DAAR. Every other champion needs to activate it somehow and then it either undoubtably falls off at some point (Falcon) or it risks falling off at some point (Crossbones and Black Cat). Having between 80 and 95% DAAR from the first second of the fight to the last without having to do something is insane. There's a reason why every other champion with a similar ability has an asterisk next to it of some kind.
Without her getting a buff, the only place she would get used by anyone is in the challenge. If you have 200 sig stones laying around unused, by all means go ahead. But to say that she has better DAAR compared to all the other champs is disingenuous. Myself and I am sure several others would much rather prefer to use crossbones, black cat or falcon when it comes to AAR. Even with the cooldown, it’s much safer to use them since they can get the fight done much faster thereby reducing the chance of mistakes.
It’s ok to say that black widow is suitable for the challenge and you will do it but to claim she is superior to the other champs you have listed is just not true. I am not sure why you and few others want to push this narrative that BW is this great champ. She is not. She is just a champ that’s needed to complete the challenge and that’s the end of it.
Yes, of course I'd rather use someone else for most content in the game. I have a Youtube channel that I have to very actively try to not just make a Black Cat appreciation channel. But I never said she was the superior overall champion of the bunch.
When I say that she has arguably the best DAAR in the game, I'm simply talking about how that one mechanic works in an otherwise terribly unimpressive kit. All other DAAR champions have better kits and are therefore much better champions in general, but they have to work for that DAAR much harder than OGBW needs to.
With that in mind, let's revisit what I said in my initial comment:
This (that is, her DAAR being nuts) doesn't make her a god-tier champion since she lacks in other areas, but it does make her a very interesting champion to build a challenge around.
Simply put, she does one single thing extremely well. That one thing does however allow her to take on some of the most difficult fights in the game, despite her simultaneously being among the worst overall champions in the game. I find that to be an interesting aspect to build a challenge around. Before people dismiss the challenge as just having to run through the Gauntlet with thrash champions, I think it's very important to point out that this single piece of utility she has is specifically supposed to get you through some of the hardest fights in the challenge.
I agree that black widow has some use with her aa reduction but the problem is she has no reason to be ranked up ahead of other champs who also have aa reduction, so if you do rank her it will be pretty much exclusively for this challenge. You would choose falcon over her if you need 100% guaranteed aa reduction (80% just isn't enough of a safety net), and dancing around for a bit on cooldown is not much of a price to pay in war at all. Equally crossbones and archangel do a lot more damage than her and can reduce ability accuracy past -100% which is fantastic for certain nodes and champs who have increased ability accuracy. Then there is also black cat who is insane for bgs and you would pretty much use in every situation over black widow as @Graves_3 said.
@Ercarret i only replied to you because in your first post you specifically said her DAAR is better than that of falcon. Falcon has 100% DAAR when locked on. How is 80% better than 100%?
I agree that black widow has some use with her aa reduction but the problem is she has no reason to be ranked up ahead of other champs who also have aa reduction, so if you do rank her it will be pretty much exclusively for this challenge. You would choose falcon over her if you need 100% guaranteed aa reduction (80% just isn't enough of a safety net), and dancing around for a bit on cooldown is not much of a price to pay in war at all. Equally crossbones and archangel do a lot more damage than her and can reduce ability accuracy past -100% which is fantastic for certain nodes and champs who have increased ability accuracy. Then there is also black cat who is insane for bgs and you would pretty much use in every situation over black widow as @Graves_3 said.
Because the goal of the challenge was to make it somewhat difficult. They left out Falcon because it wouldn't present that much of a challenge. Same with SW being excluded. Of course there are better champions out there but that isn't the point of what these are supposed to be.
@Graves_3 understand what @Ercarret is trying to say. Black widow og is the best daar champ in the game, better then cb, black cat nd falcon. But black widow is useless in other fields.
Just like we say vision is better than nimrod in power control. But nimrod is way better than vision as a overall champ
But you're right, black widow og is not worthy of rankup nd sig outside of these challenges
Comments
Doesn’t anyone who designs game content like WoW Abs-Man actually test it before releasing it?
This one form of content has done more brand damage to this game than anything since version 12 nerfs.
When a game loses its fun, its enjoyment and content starts making players mad with rage then something is seriously wrong with that game.
(I made a video about my WoW experience and it’s had over 100 comments from various players ranging in progression level and age and they are really pissed off with this particular design of content).
Lagacy's are fun and enjoyable. Your zemo one is fun and enjoyable. Classic threat is boring, but doable.
Fintech's however is just a cash grab.
I understand releasing this type of content here and there but if that's all we're getting the rest of the year I'll probably just quit and come back next year. Can I do this type of content? Absolutely, however it feels more like a chore to me and I absolutely hate that, it's not fun for me personally.
We'll see, I hope they listened to all the Abs Man feedback as well as the feedback for these challenges, wouldn't make sense to make every single fight unbearable and stressful for the rest of the year when so many people hate this type of content.
You consistently derail threads.
Then pretend you don’t.
You seem quite angry a lot of the time, I hope you feel better soon.
I want to preface this with the fact that I usually love challenging content. I loved necropolis and created one of the first guides for exploration, I even liked the abyss carina challenges and thought they were fun, and I really like Lagacy's carina challenge design too. Hell, I'm one of the nutters who did the Winter of woe absorbing man robot challenge and actually enjoyed it with my r1 guilly. I really do like challenge content, as do many of my friends in this game, so I think it's fair to say that this content is geared towards a player exactly like me.
I have two main problems though with this kind of content:
1. These challenges are not possible to do itemlessly. I've always said that a good challenge should be tough but fair. Necro was possible to do revive-less, as was the winter of woe objectives etc. But some of these challenges are pretty much impossible to do itemlessly, and seeing even the best players having revive counters in the double digits just feels like an item drain for no reason such as the incredibly annoying 4 star labyrinth carina's challenges (the only ones that I didn't do).
2. Fintech and your challenges require very specific teams/champions ranked at pretty much the highest level. This is a game with tons of champions to choose from so restricting players to just one champion that they may not even like just feels a bit crazy to me. Personally with the avengers ones I actually like playing most of the champions on that team as I stated previously, but I really hate playing mojo. Plus, I don't have a 7 star version (even though I spent money on the valentines sales for him) so I now have to rank up my 6 star to r5 to even be able to do this challenge with a somewhat reasonable revive counter and I don't even like playing him. That is a terrible feeling tbh. It's the same story with baron zemo.
And the main problem with all this is that the rewards do not justify the rank up costs of all these champions. I know Kabam is responsible for the rewards, but once you heard they were, frankly terrible especially in comparison to necropolis and winter of woe, both of which seem to be easier than these challenges, surely you could have toned down the difficulty a bit. Or at least we should be given back the resources spent to rank up these champions via rewards from the other challenges. Kabam Miike stated that these were designed for the top 1% of players but it's actually the top 0.001% which seems kind of silly to me.
If that’s the case, then it’s premature and not well-founded. Premature because we haven’t seen what the other fights are going to look like yet, and so to have such a dramatic response to a hypothetical is insane. Not well founded because in Kabam’s announcement about the #Robot issue and other pain points around the Abs Man fight, the reason given for not adjusting energy usage yet is because other upcoming fights are not expected to be as difficult as this one and they want to see how the energy cost works when the fight isn’t so punishing.
To be super clear, I’m not defending the energy cost. But that statement should tell people that Kabam is expecting future fights to require fewer attempts than Abs Man has.
I’d also, once again, point out that 1) the Carina’s Challenges are permanent and so it shouldn’t matter when they were released (I know that psychologically this player base sees shiny and must have shiny, but maybe don’t come after the people who made it when shiny is hard to get), and 2) the Carina’s Challenge rewards aren’t even anything game changing. S2099, Sparky, and Masacre are good, fun champs, but they aren’t gonna make or break anybody’s experience. The rewards here aren’t getting anybody over the line to Valiant. These champs will have exactly the same value in a year or two as they do now, you don’t need to rush this content while trying to do WoW. It can wait.
If someone puts Cyclops in a challenge that doesn't mean we force eveyone to take him as perfect counter for say havok on the path or call him the best for the challenge.
EOP was released when R4 champs were the top of the food chain, and even then they weren’t super abundant. I mostly used R3 champs for those fights, but R4s where I could. I’d recommend at least an R4 for the nature of the challenge. But beyond that is, again, a personal decision.
These challenges don’t *require* those rank ups. It’s just a decision you have to make whether you’d rather spend revives or materials. The difference between an R1 and an R3 is massive, obviously, but the difference between an R3 and R4? Not nearly so overwhelming. Throw some boosts at an R3 and you’ll be just as comfortable.
Similarly, we did the EOP original carina challenges with r3s but could use juggs and other great champs. Now all we have is a stupid mojo who I hate playing, and as a consequence of that am not good with him. No player would be able to get through the EOP challenge within a reasonable number of revives using a r3 6 star mojo.
I am tired of people using the classic line: "you're not who this content is targeting". It's being used to counter to literally every player who has a grievance with these challenges including swedeah who is one of the best players at this game. And I am exactly who this challenge is targeting, but I don't want to do them because the rewards to effort/spend ratio is abysmal. I have 3 r3 7 stars, and a massive roster, not to mention I would consider myself skilled as I have beaten the biggest accounts in bgs like magus/usafa and the best players like beroman.
It’s of course personal choice to rank them up higher than r3 just like it’s a personal choice to even do these challenges but I don’t think the narrative that at r3, you can as easily accomplish this challenge as with the best counters for gauntlet at r3 is just false.
My comment about who the content was targeting was not meant to be directed at you as an individual. Gotta love English not differentiating between you in the singular or plural. I meant that in the sense of “if you are not at the point in the game where R3 materials are abundant, then you still have room to go before these challenges are relevant to you.” You, as an individual, are obviously at that point. But somebody who is still struggling to build out their roster, like the person I describe in the quotes above, isn’t.
I think the champs that I’d recommend taking to R4 or higher for this series of challenges would be Mojo, Tigra, and Zemo, with Jabari getting an honorable mention. She doesn’t really have to do the fights, she’s just an optional, so she could be fine at R3 or not ranked at all and just used for the synergy. But BW, Thor, Iron Man, Ant Man, and Hawkeye could all do their part at just R3 if needed. Rank Iron Man higher though, he’s so good and you won’t regret it.
I’m probably gonna run BW and Antman at R3, but I’m playing with the idea of taking Thor to R4 just for the combat power rate against Vision. Antman would go up if he didn’t exist as a 7* already, I actually rate him really highly. And, I can’t believe I’m saying this, I luckily have an awakened 7* Hawkeye. Iron Man’s already R5 and has been since his buff because he rules.
Same kind of idea for Zemo. Doable at R3 without revive farming, but you’ll still want to go in with a full inventory just in case. R4 is definitely more comfortable, and I’ll be taking him up to at least that, maybe even R5 because I’ve been needing to rank up a skill champ and Zemo is very good on both sides of the line.
But no, you’re 100% right that it won’t be “as easy” with a team of non-optimal R3 champs as it was with the best champs in the game.
Again, game changing or not it's still a 7* selector with champs that aren't in the basic or Titan pool, it's a meaningful reward. Locking them behind content almost nobody likes doing is dumb. I understand you enjoy this type of content but 90% of the playerbase does not, why are we getting so much of this content lately? It makes absolutely no sense.
Again, this isn't about rushing or not, I could rank up Tigra and Jabari and do the whole thing this month if I wanted to. It's the fact that the content is frustrating and boring, which you seem to like for some weird reason.
It is also worth pointing out that OG Black Widow, at max sig, has what is arguably the strongest version of the strongest and most broken ability (defensive ability accuracy reduction) in the entire game. Better than Falcon's. Better than Black Cat's. Better than Crossbones'. She shuts down 80% of everything that can ever happen when you strike the opponent. Up to 95% against Science champions. As long as the opponent isn't inherently immune to ability accuracy reduction or there's a node that makes them so.
That's absolutely bananas. If she punished all of those failed effects similar to how Black Cat does it, she would probably be overpowered. There's no build-up, no cooldown, no reliance on buffs or debuffs. She just doesn't care what the defender throws at her.
This doesn't make her a god-tier champion since she lacks in other areas, but it does make her a very interesting champion to build a challenge around.
When it comes to champion restrictions, well, sometimes you just have to bite the bullet. But that has always been the case. I remember ranking up a bunch of X-Men champions for a Carina's Challenge a few years ago. Just like now, I only ranked them up as far as I was comfortable given my resources and then boosted up to make up the difference. In the end, it was actually kind of fun to use them. Hopefully that'll be the same now that I rank up these Avengers champions.
I'm already eyeing my 7* Ant-Man as a potential rank-up. While I'm perhaps not the biggest fan of him on attack, he's really proven his worth on Battlegrounds defense since he just slows down my opponents with his incessant glancing. I was considering ranking him up even before these challenges came into the game, and would have already done so if r2 resources were just a little bit more available. (Same with Jabari, for that matter.)
As for Falcon, I consider his cooldown a massive downside. For 8 seconds every 24 seconds, you have absolutely no safety net and have to dance around while you wait for the cooldown to end. Meanwhile, OGBW can just keep up her DAAR indefinitely.
I'm not saying she's a better champion than Falcon. Or Black Cat, or Crossbones. She's obviously not. All I'm saying is that as soon as you've sig'd her up, she doesn't have to do anything to activate her DAAR. Every other champion needs to activate it somehow and then it either undoubtably falls off at some point (Falcon) or it risks falling off at some point (Crossbones and Black Cat). Having between 80 and 95% DAAR from the first second of the fight to the last without having to do something is insane. There's a reason why every other champion with a similar ability has an asterisk next to it of some kind.
It’s ok to say that black widow is suitable for the challenge and you will do it but to claim she is superior to the other champs you have listed is just not true. I am not sure why you and few others want to push this narrative that BW is this great champ. She is not. She is just a champ that’s needed to complete the challenge and that’s the end of it.
When I say that she has arguably the best DAAR in the game, I'm simply talking about how that one mechanic works in an otherwise terribly unimpressive kit. All other DAAR champions have better kits and are therefore much better champions in general, but they have to work for that DAAR much harder than OGBW needs to.
With that in mind, let's revisit what I said in my initial comment: Simply put, she does one single thing extremely well. That one thing does however allow her to take on some of the most difficult fights in the game, despite her simultaneously being among the worst overall champions in the game. I find that to be an interesting aspect to build a challenge around. Before people dismiss the challenge as just having to run through the Gauntlet with thrash champions, I think it's very important to point out that this single piece of utility she has is specifically supposed to get you through some of the hardest fights in the challenge.
Black widow og is the best daar champ in the game, better then cb, black cat nd falcon. But black widow is useless in other fields.
Just like we say vision is better than nimrod in power control. But nimrod is way better than vision as a overall champ
But you're right, black widow og is not worthy of rankup nd sig outside of these challenges