No way am I grinding for objectives that should be achieved already, I've put my ticket in and it's up to Kabam whether they want to do the right thing and fix the situation.
No way am I grinding for objectives that should be achieved already, I've put my ticket in and it's up to Kabam whether they want to do the right thing and fix the situation.
You are missing the point, those rewards are not targetted for you, they are targetted to people who became Paragon while the event was live. Its up to you to farm them or pass, you are not entitled to them.
just shows how little thought goes into these events now. Theres no reason a event should be released where its impossible to achieve all the miles stones. The lack of QA at kabam is beyond frustrating due to their long track record of releasing incomplete events like this.
Additionally, how is starting off at 0 "ensuring you leave where you left off". Overall a very poor execution. Kabam seems to be really toeing the line for what they can get away with and what players wont tolerate.
Its not impossible, it can be done but its time consuming
Time is an irrelevant resource in game.
Dr. Zola
Which makes it doubly hilarious that they hard code the reward distribution just to make sure we sign in daily…
It is kinda funny in the sense that I can see "time is irrelevant" is becoming the next "Cyclops is the most effective champion" but as I get older I actually find these sorts of telephone game memes less and less amusing, given they are a reflection of a lot of what's wrong with the world today.
Zola, I'm sure, understands the issue, and just enjoys needling the devs, the community, and the Earth in general. And we'll both be dead before humanity's brain damage crosses the Idiocracy threshold.
I don’t remember the full context of the Cyclops comment but I can imagine the case where it was misconstrued. I can imagine someone randomly stating “No one ever uses him because he’s so bad” in which case Mike’s comment makes sense. It targets that notion with a counter that a contingency of users exists contrary to the claim. The community only sees “cyclops good” and runs.
However, I can also imagine the alternative: the comment was put forward in a conversation about him being under-tuned and needing a buff. Assuming we believe that cyclops is under-tuned, then presenting that statement in that context can be for one of two reasons: 1) as a case against the idea that he’s under-tuned or 2) as a completely isolated statement about the existence of some players somewhere who use him at some unspecified level of efficiency, which would be a a bit of a red herring if it doesn’t actually change anything about the conclusion that he needs to be buffed. Kind of like if we all decided to tell a friend to stop driving on flat tires only for someone to pop up their hand and say “some people have gotten good mileage on flat tires”. You’re either making the case against changing them (which would warrant mocking) or added something to the conversation which changes nothing about the argument (in which case it would be wrong to mock you for saying we shouldn't change them but then we should ask why you opted to make the comment at all). Depending on how those comments were relayed I may be in complete agreement with you there
I believe Jax’s comment falls into a slightly different category as the context doesn’t really change the substance of the criticism in that no context changes the invalidity of those particular words chosen. What’s being targeted there is really the hyperbole, which can certainly be joked about without falling into the pitfall of genuinely believing that there is no time consideration in the economy management. In fact, its only funny to make fun of expressly because we all know (I hope) that it isn’t true. I think we all can agree that “Certain portions of the game will reward time commitment differently” (which is closer to the heart of the paragraph he wrote) isnt all that disagreeable. Choosing to write “[time] isnt a relevant resource in the game’s economical balance” doesn’t capture that though. It was, in all likelihood, the complete wrong choice of words- which happens. Some teasing is warranted though
Just went back and read the cyclops discussion. So this was about featured crystal changes (from the old 25% to the new pool of new champs). The question about how champions were selected came up and Mike responded by saying they sourced data from AW/AQ with the intention of “avoiding poor performing champions”. The list comes out and someone says that there is “no way that [insert list of bad champs in crystal] could be among the most used”. Mike correctly responds that he hadnt said most used but rather “among the most effective”. He then specifically mentions cyclops has a contingent of people who use him “Very effectively”.
I think to say he was taken out of context would be a bit contentious here since the broader context was specifically that these champions were not supposed to be poor performers and some of those additions were laughable. I can see the grey in this though
I believe Jax’s comment falls into a slightly different category as the context doesn’t really change the substance of the criticism in that no context changes the invalidity of those particular words chosen.
Even though in both of these cases I both explicitly stated the context in question and specifically describe how both contexts are absent and relevant, these two replies fail to acknowledge either. Mind you, they don't disagree with what I said, they literally imply I didn't mention anything at all.
Which on the one hand is something I would ordinarily want to dispute, but on the other hand, for the purposes of anyone that I have any chance of reaching at all on this topic, actually make my argument better than anything I could say.
I believe Jax’s comment falls into a slightly different category as the context doesn’t really change the substance of the criticism in that no context changes the invalidity of those particular words chosen.
Even though in both of these cases I both explicitly stated the context in question and specifically describe how both contexts are absent and relevant, these two replies fail to acknowledge either. Mind you, they don't disagree with what I said, they literally imply I didn't mention anything at all.
Which on the one hand is something I would ordinarily want to dispute, but on the other hand, for the purposes of anyone that I have any chance of reaching at all on this topic, actually make my argument better than anything I could say.
I don't think the 2 situations are even comparable. One is about an ingame champ .. the other is about player behavior. They can defend a champ utility all they want and people may still think its trash; but the unfortunate comment about time being irrelevant kinda makes f2P grinders feel bad. I don't think Cyclops feelings can be hurt.
I believe Jax’s comment falls into a slightly different category as the context doesn’t really change the substance of the criticism in that no context changes the invalidity of those particular words chosen.
Even though in both of these cases I both explicitly stated the context in question and specifically describe how both contexts are absent and relevant, these two replies fail to acknowledge either. Mind you, they don't disagree with what I said, they literally imply I didn't mention anything at all.
Which on the one hand is something I would ordinarily want to dispute, but on the other hand, for the purposes of anyone that I have any chance of reaching at all on this topic, actually make my argument better than anything I could say.
I had read what you said about considering under the context of endgame content. This doesn’t change my claim and I didn’t intend to imply that you didn’t offer any context. I just don’t agree that what you offered changes anything. To respond more specifically though, I think I would disagree that kabam doesn’t consider time as a factor when making end game content. So, under that (and every other) context, I disagree with the claim that time is not a relevant resource for the game economy balancing.
I believe Jax’s comment falls into a slightly different category as the context doesn’t really change the substance of the criticism in that no context changes the invalidity of those particular words chosen.
Even though in both of these cases I both explicitly stated the context in question and specifically describe how both contexts are absent and relevant, these two replies fail to acknowledge either. Mind you, they don't disagree with what I said, they literally imply I didn't mention anything at all.
Which on the one hand is something I would ordinarily want to dispute, but on the other hand, for the purposes of anyone that I have any chance of reaching at all on this topic, actually make my argument better than anything I could say.
In both cases you described the context you applied to the statements. That does not mean the context was a shared context for the comments by all. This thread isn’t about those topics but I don’t agree with the context you applied to either one.
On this topic, Kabam tried to fix an unforseen issue and ended up giving everyone the option to pick up some extra rewards if you want to grind it out. That seems like a good move and I’m glad players that moved up a level didn’t get short changed this month. Good on Kabam for finding a quick solution and implementing it even if it meant giving out more rewards than they intended this month.
No way am I grinding for objectives that should be achieved already, I've put my ticket in and it's up to Kabam whether they want to do the right thing and fix the situation.
You are missing the point, those rewards are not targetted for you, they are targetted to people who became Paragon while the event was live. Its up to you to farm them or pass, you are not entitled to them.
Sorry, but you’re not exactly ‘targeting’ a specific aspect of the player base when you roll something out to everyone. What this does is involuntarily cause everybody who is not progressing to assess whether or not they should retroactively complete this by exploiting a loop. This is bullsh*t design.
Kabam is notorious for doing this. This is why there is a lot of outrage when summoners see an offer that doesn’t make sense, or when an AW meta is created for the top 1% then rolled out to everybody.
I believe Jax’s comment falls into a slightly different category as the context doesn’t really change the substance of the criticism in that no context changes the invalidity of those particular words chosen.
Even though in both of these cases I both explicitly stated the context in question and specifically describe how both contexts are absent and relevant, these two replies fail to acknowledge either. Mind you, they don't disagree with what I said, they literally imply I didn't mention anything at all.
Which on the one hand is something I would ordinarily want to dispute, but on the other hand, for the purposes of anyone that I have any chance of reaching at all on this topic, actually make my argument better than anything I could say.
In both cases you described the context you applied to the statements. That does not mean the context was a shared context for the comments by all. This thread isn’t about those topics but I don’t agree with the context you applied to either one.
On this topic, Kabam tried to fix an unforseen issue and ended up giving everyone the option to pick up some extra rewards if you want to grind it out. That seems like a good move and I’m glad players that moved up a level didn’t get short changed this month. Good on Kabam for finding a quick solution and implementing it even if it meant giving out more rewards than they intended this month.
What you call unforeseen issue, I call poor execution. This to me looks more like an experiment on the player base than anything. I refuse to believe that they were naive enough to execute this without considering the consequences, which I stated above.
I believe Jax’s comment falls into a slightly different category as the context doesn’t really change the substance of the criticism in that no context changes the invalidity of those particular words chosen.
Even though in both of these cases I both explicitly stated the context in question and specifically describe how both contexts are absent and relevant, these two replies fail to acknowledge either. Mind you, they don't disagree with what I said, they literally imply I didn't mention anything at all.
Which on the one hand is something I would ordinarily want to dispute, but on the other hand, for the purposes of anyone that I have any chance of reaching at all on this topic, actually make my argument better than anything I could say.
In both cases you described the context you applied to the statements. That does not mean the context was a shared context for the comments by all. This thread isn’t about those topics but I don’t agree with the context you applied to either one.
On this topic, Kabam tried to fix an unforseen issue and ended up giving everyone the option to pick up some extra rewards if you want to grind it out. That seems like a good move and I’m glad players that moved up a level didn’t get short changed this month. Good on Kabam for finding a quick solution and implementing it even if it meant giving out more rewards than they intended this month.
What you call unforeseen issue, I call poor execution. This to me looks more like an experiment on the player base than anything. I refuse to believe that they were naive enough to execute this without considering the consequences, which I stated above.
I think there should be a “what happens if someone progresses during this event?” checkbox during the review process whenever they roll out a new format to try to prevent this. In this case it looks like an oversight. You can call that poor execution.
I think assuming this was intentionally done to give people even more to do during an already busy time and give out more rewards than initially announced is crossing into tinfoil hat territory.
To me, it seems like they made a mistake, recognized it, and (for Kabam) very quickly came up with a player friendly solution. There are plenty of valid complaints about the game. I don’t think complaining that this fix is forcing you to think about grinding for even more rewards is one of them.
What are you proposing? Are you asking that they retroactively give you the same score you had in your current progression for all progression levels? So you are upset they didn’t just hand out a pile of extra rewards and instead you have to do some minimal grinding if you want them?
No way am I grinding for objectives that should be achieved already, I've put my ticket in and it's up to Kabam whether they want to do the right thing and fix the situation.
You are missing the point, those rewards are not targetted for you, they are targetted to people who became Paragon while the event was live. Its up to you to farm them or pass, you are not entitled to them.
Sorry, but you’re not exactly ‘targeting’ a specific aspect of the player base when you roll something out to everyone. What this does is involuntarily cause everybody who is not progressing to assess whether or not they should retroactively complete this by exploiting a loop. This is bullsh*t design.
Kabam is notorious for doing this. This is why there is a lot of outrage when summoners see an offer that doesn’t make sense, or when an AW meta is created for the top 1% then rolled out to everybody.
Its an actual pro player fix, yes its flawed but it actually benefits some players... You seem to be pretty agitated about it, which probably means you need or want the lower tier rewards too...Then get going and do them... They could have just let the month go the way it was.
No way am I grinding for objectives that should be achieved already, I've put my ticket in and it's up to Kabam whether they want to do the right thing and fix the situation.
You are missing the point, those rewards are not targetted for you, they are targetted to people who became Paragon while the event was live. Its up to you to farm them or pass, you are not entitled to them.
Sorry, but you’re not exactly ‘targeting’ a specific aspect of the player base when you roll something out to everyone. What this does is involuntarily cause everybody who is not progressing to assess whether or not they should retroactively complete this by exploiting a loop. This is bullsh*t design.
Kabam is notorious for doing this. This is why there is a lot of outrage when summoners see an offer that doesn’t make sense, or when an AW meta is created for the top 1% then rolled out to everybody.
Its an actual pro player fix, yes its flawed but it actually benefits some players... You seem to be pretty agitated about it, which probably means you need or want the lower tier rewards too...Then get going and do them... They could have just let the month go the way it was.
The point here really is that if you've already done the higher tiers and gotten the points, and these events already should have been in the gMe from the start, why should ANYBODY have to do it all again?
Anybody who's already gotten the points in their highest tier should have been given the completion of lower tiers that should have been there from the start of the event.
Just fight the 3 fights and start over before collecting the reward. Do it 40 times and you'll have 120 points!
It will be funny if any mod actually recommends it and this is what everyone is officially supposed to do to solve this situation. Anyways, i will try it out today.
No way am I grinding for objectives that should be achieved already, I've put my ticket in and it's up to Kabam whether they want to do the right thing and fix the situation.
You are missing the point, those rewards are not targetted for you, they are targetted to people who became Paragon while the event was live. Its up to you to farm them or pass, you are not entitled to them.
Sorry, but you’re not exactly ‘targeting’ a specific aspect of the player base when you roll something out to everyone. What this does is involuntarily cause everybody who is not progressing to assess whether or not they should retroactively complete this by exploiting a loop. This is bullsh*t design.
Kabam is notorious for doing this. This is why there is a lot of outrage when summoners see an offer that doesn’t make sense, or when an AW meta is created for the top 1% then rolled out to everybody.
Its an actual pro player fix, yes its flawed but it actually benefits some players... You seem to be pretty agitated about it, which probably means you need or want the lower tier rewards too...Then get going and do them... They could have just let the month go the way it was.
The point here really is that if you've already done the higher tiers and gotten the points, and these events already should have been in the gMe from the start, why should ANYBODY have to do it all again?
Anybody who's already gotten the points in their highest tier should have been given the completion of lower tiers that should have been there from the start of the event.
They could have done nothing, leave the event as it was and told new Paragons to go kick rocks... Its allowing new and mid Paragons to get an extra AG at the expense of some effort. You don't wanna do it don't... Simple as that.
No way am I grinding for objectives that should be achieved already, I've put my ticket in and it's up to Kabam whether they want to do the right thing and fix the situation.
You are missing the point, those rewards are not targetted for you, they are targetted to people who became Paragon while the event was live. Its up to you to farm them or pass, you are not entitled to them.
Sorry, but you’re not exactly ‘targeting’ a specific aspect of the player base when you roll something out to everyone. What this does is involuntarily cause everybody who is not progressing to assess whether or not they should retroactively complete this by exploiting a loop. This is bullsh*t design.
Kabam is notorious for doing this. This is why there is a lot of outrage when summoners see an offer that doesn’t make sense, or when an AW meta is created for the top 1% then rolled out to everybody.
Its an actual pro player fix, yes its flawed but it actually benefits some players... You seem to be pretty agitated about it, which probably means you need or want the lower tier rewards too...Then get going and do them... They could have just let the month go the way it was.
The point here really is that if you've already done the higher tiers and gotten the points, and these events already should have been in the gMe from the start, why should ANYBODY have to do it all again?
Anybody who's already gotten the points in their highest tier should have been given the completion of lower tiers that should have been there from the start of the event.
They could have done nothing, leave the event as it was and told new Paragons to go kick rocks... Its allowing new and mid Paragons to get an extra AG at the expense of some effort. You don't wanna do it don't... Simple as that.
You missed my point.
Nobody should have to do it again, they should have been there from the start, as they intended, unless I misread the mail as to why they put it in a week later.
No way am I grinding for objectives that should be achieved already, I've put my ticket in and it's up to Kabam whether they want to do the right thing and fix the situation.
You are missing the point, those rewards are not targetted for you, they are targetted to people who became Paragon while the event was live. Its up to you to farm them or pass, you are not entitled to them.
Sorry, but you’re not exactly ‘targeting’ a specific aspect of the player base when you roll something out to everyone. What this does is involuntarily cause everybody who is not progressing to assess whether or not they should retroactively complete this by exploiting a loop. This is bullsh*t design.
Kabam is notorious for doing this. This is why there is a lot of outrage when summoners see an offer that doesn’t make sense, or when an AW meta is created for the top 1% then rolled out to everybody.
Its an actual pro player fix, yes its flawed but it actually benefits some players... You seem to be pretty agitated about it, which probably means you need or want the lower tier rewards too...Then get going and do them... They could have just let the month go the way it was.
The point here really is that if you've already done the higher tiers and gotten the points, and these events already should have been in the gMe from the start, why should ANYBODY have to do it all again?
Anybody who's already gotten the points in their highest tier should have been given the completion of lower tiers that should have been there from the start of the event.
They could have done nothing, leave the event as it was and told new Paragons to go kick rocks... Its allowing new and mid Paragons to get an extra AG at the expense of some effort. You don't wanna do it don't... Simple as that.
You missed my point.
Nobody should have to do it again, they should have been there from the start, as they intended, unless I misread the mail as to why they put it in a week later.
Yes you misread the mail, its intended for people who changed progression during the event, not meant for you.
No way am I grinding for objectives that should be achieved already, I've put my ticket in and it's up to Kabam whether they want to do the right thing and fix the situation.
You are missing the point, those rewards are not targetted for you, they are targetted to people who became Paragon while the event was live. Its up to you to farm them or pass, you are not entitled to them.
Sorry, but you’re not exactly ‘targeting’ a specific aspect of the player base when you roll something out to everyone. What this does is involuntarily cause everybody who is not progressing to assess whether or not they should retroactively complete this by exploiting a loop. This is bullsh*t design.
Kabam is notorious for doing this. This is why there is a lot of outrage when summoners see an offer that doesn’t make sense, or when an AW meta is created for the top 1% then rolled out to everybody.
Its an actual pro player fix, yes its flawed but it actually benefits some players... You seem to be pretty agitated about it, which probably means you need or want the lower tier rewards too...Then get going and do them... They could have just let the month go the way it was.
The point here really is that if you've already done the higher tiers and gotten the points, and these events already should have been in the gMe from the start, why should ANYBODY have to do it all again?
Anybody who's already gotten the points in their highest tier should have been given the completion of lower tiers that should have been there from the start of the event.
They could have done nothing, leave the event as it was and told new Paragons to go kick rocks... Its allowing new and mid Paragons to get an extra AG at the expense of some effort. You don't wanna do it don't... Simple as that.
You missed my point.
Nobody should have to do it again, they should have been there from the start, as they intended, unless I misread the mail as to why they put it in a week later.
Yes you misread the mail, its intended for people who changed progression during the event, not meant for you.
If it wasn’t meant for me, then don’t roll it out to me. I think the only person missing a point here is you. You’re acting like @GroundedWisdom, this was poorly executed, it’s as simple as that.
Mind you, there aren’t enough Krakoan Flowers to get all the points. The only way to get them is to go in, fight and restart the quest. This is stupid design and clearly not well thought out.
Don’t come out with all these BS arguments such as: it’s not meant for you. Like I said - don’t roll it out to me if it’s not meant for me.
No way am I grinding for objectives that should be achieved already, I've put my ticket in and it's up to Kabam whether they want to do the right thing and fix the situation.
You are missing the point, those rewards are not targetted for you, they are targetted to people who became Paragon while the event was live. Its up to you to farm them or pass, you are not entitled to them.
Sorry, but you’re not exactly ‘targeting’ a specific aspect of the player base when you roll something out to everyone. What this does is involuntarily cause everybody who is not progressing to assess whether or not they should retroactively complete this by exploiting a loop. This is bullsh*t design.
Kabam is notorious for doing this. This is why there is a lot of outrage when summoners see an offer that doesn’t make sense, or when an AW meta is created for the top 1% then rolled out to everybody.
Its an actual pro player fix, yes its flawed but it actually benefits some players... You seem to be pretty agitated about it, which probably means you need or want the lower tier rewards too...Then get going and do them... They could have just let the month go the way it was.
The point here really is that if you've already done the higher tiers and gotten the points, and these events already should have been in the gMe from the start, why should ANYBODY have to do it all again?
Anybody who's already gotten the points in their highest tier should have been given the completion of lower tiers that should have been there from the start of the event.
They could have done nothing, leave the event as it was and told new Paragons to go kick rocks... Its allowing new and mid Paragons to get an extra AG at the expense of some effort. You don't wanna do it don't... Simple as that.
You missed my point.
Nobody should have to do it again, they should have been there from the start, as they intended, unless I misread the mail as to why they put it in a week later.
Yes you misread the mail, its intended for people who changed progression during the event, not meant for you.
If it wasn’t meant for me, then don’t roll it out to me. I think the only person missing a point here is you. You’re acting like @GroundedWisdom, this was poorly executed, it’s as simple as that.
Mind you, there aren’t enough Krakoan Flowers to get all the points. The only way to get them is to go in, fight and restart the quest. This is stupid design and clearly not well thought out.
Don’t come out with all these BS arguments such as: it’s not meant for you. Like I said - don’t roll it out to me if it’s not meant for me.
Rofl so it bothers you that much that they rolled it out for you? Hahahahaha sure lets tailor the game just for you... Yeah lets do that, not roll out lower EQs for you.. lower SQs.. let's make sure the game is designed and tailor just so you can be happy...
I believe Jax’s comment falls into a slightly different category as the context doesn’t really change the substance of the criticism in that no context changes the invalidity of those particular words chosen.
Even though in both of these cases I both explicitly stated the context in question and specifically describe how both contexts are absent and relevant, these two replies fail to acknowledge either. Mind you, they don't disagree with what I said, they literally imply I didn't mention anything at all.
Which on the one hand is something I would ordinarily want to dispute, but on the other hand, for the purposes of anyone that I have any chance of reaching at all on this topic, actually make my argument better than anything I could say.
In both cases you described the context you applied to the statements. That does not mean the context was a shared context for the comments by all. This thread isn’t about those topics but I don’t agree with the context you applied to either one.
On this topic, Kabam tried to fix an unforseen issue and ended up giving everyone the option to pick up some extra rewards if you want to grind it out. That seems like a good move and I’m glad players that moved up a level didn’t get short changed this month. Good on Kabam for finding a quick solution and implementing it even if it meant giving out more rewards than they intended this month.
What you call unforeseen issue, I call poor execution. This to me looks more like an experiment on the player base than anything. I refuse to believe that they were naive enough to execute this without considering the consequences, which I stated above.
I think there should be a “what happens if someone progresses during this event?” checkbox during the review process whenever they roll out a new format to try to prevent this. In this case it looks like an oversight. You can call that poor execution.
I think assuming this was intentionally done to give people even more to do during an already busy time and give out more rewards than initially announced is crossing into tinfoil hat territory.
To me, it seems like they made a mistake, recognized it, and (for Kabam) very quickly came up with a player friendly solution. There are plenty of valid complaints about the game. I don’t think complaining that this fix is forcing you to think about grinding for even more rewards is one of them.
What are you proposing? Are you asking that they retroactively give you the same score you had in your current progression for all progression levels? So you are upset they didn’t just hand out a pile of extra rewards and instead you have to do some minimal grinding if you want them?
You started off well and then your argument descended into a crapshoot.
Yes we both agree that it is poor design, so why did you flip a switch and start asking me if I wanted rewards for doing nothing? Pick a side and let’s continue the debate accordingly.
1) It is poorly designed and executed. 2) There are not enough Krakoan Flowers to get the points. 3) To get the points you need to exploit a flawed loop by fighting, quitting before exiting then doing it again. 4) If I’m not the target audience, don’t send it to me. 5) If you’re going to send it to me anyway because you’re too lazy to figure out your target audience, then add the points I’ve already accumulated at my tier.
Because they haven’t acknowledged 1) and decided not to do 5), it looks to me like an experiment. Which, if you have any experience in startups or corporate, you would realize that they are more likely to perform experiments on their users; regardless of the user’s whims. So that’s your tinfoil hat argument down the drain. If anything, you’re the one with the tinfoil hat.
No way am I grinding for objectives that should be achieved already, I've put my ticket in and it's up to Kabam whether they want to do the right thing and fix the situation.
You are missing the point, those rewards are not targetted for you, they are targetted to people who became Paragon while the event was live. Its up to you to farm them or pass, you are not entitled to them.
Sorry, but you’re not exactly ‘targeting’ a specific aspect of the player base when you roll something out to everyone. What this does is involuntarily cause everybody who is not progressing to assess whether or not they should retroactively complete this by exploiting a loop. This is bullsh*t design.
Kabam is notorious for doing this. This is why there is a lot of outrage when summoners see an offer that doesn’t make sense, or when an AW meta is created for the top 1% then rolled out to everybody.
Its an actual pro player fix, yes its flawed but it actually benefits some players... You seem to be pretty agitated about it, which probably means you need or want the lower tier rewards too...Then get going and do them... They could have just let the month go the way it was.
The point here really is that if you've already done the higher tiers and gotten the points, and these events already should have been in the gMe from the start, why should ANYBODY have to do it all again?
Anybody who's already gotten the points in their highest tier should have been given the completion of lower tiers that should have been there from the start of the event.
They could have done nothing, leave the event as it was and told new Paragons to go kick rocks... Its allowing new and mid Paragons to get an extra AG at the expense of some effort. You don't wanna do it don't... Simple as that.
You missed my point.
Nobody should have to do it again, they should have been there from the start, as they intended, unless I misread the mail as to why they put it in a week later.
Yes you misread the mail, its intended for people who changed progression during the event, not meant for you.
If it wasn’t meant for me, then don’t roll it out to me. I think the only person missing a point here is you. You’re acting like @GroundedWisdom, this was poorly executed, it’s as simple as that.
Mind you, there aren’t enough Krakoan Flowers to get all the points. The only way to get them is to go in, fight and restart the quest. This is stupid design and clearly not well thought out.
Don’t come out with all these BS arguments such as: it’s not meant for you. Like I said - don’t roll it out to me if it’s not meant for me.
Rofl so it bothers you that much that they rolled it out for you? Hahahahaha sure lets tailor the game just for you... Yeah lets do that, not roll out lower EQs for you.. lower SQs.. let's make sure the game is designed and tailor just so you can be happy...
It’s not about making me happy. It’s about targeting audiences, that’s what we’re talking about.
Here’s what I’m trying to say: by rolling out a flawed system to me, which wasn’t intended for me, looks more like an experiment on the user base than anything else.
Eg. Let’s see what % of Paragon players are willing to spend additional time grinding for lower tier rewards.
I know it sounds silly, but that’s where my thoughts are based on this poorly executed design.
No way am I grinding for objectives that should be achieved already, I've put my ticket in and it's up to Kabam whether they want to do the right thing and fix the situation.
You are missing the point, those rewards are not targetted for you, they are targetted to people who became Paragon while the event was live. Its up to you to farm them or pass, you are not entitled to them.
Sorry, but you’re not exactly ‘targeting’ a specific aspect of the player base when you roll something out to everyone. What this does is involuntarily cause everybody who is not progressing to assess whether or not they should retroactively complete this by exploiting a loop. This is bullsh*t design.
Kabam is notorious for doing this. This is why there is a lot of outrage when summoners see an offer that doesn’t make sense, or when an AW meta is created for the top 1% then rolled out to everybody.
Its an actual pro player fix, yes its flawed but it actually benefits some players... You seem to be pretty agitated about it, which probably means you need or want the lower tier rewards too...Then get going and do them... They could have just let the month go the way it was.
The point here really is that if you've already done the higher tiers and gotten the points, and these events already should have been in the gMe from the start, why should ANYBODY have to do it all again?
Anybody who's already gotten the points in their highest tier should have been given the completion of lower tiers that should have been there from the start of the event.
They could have done nothing, leave the event as it was and told new Paragons to go kick rocks... Its allowing new and mid Paragons to get an extra AG at the expense of some effort. You don't wanna do it don't... Simple as that.
You missed my point.
Nobody should have to do it again, they should have been there from the start, as they intended, unless I misread the mail as to why they put it in a week later.
Yes you misread the mail, its intended for people who changed progression during the event, not meant for you.
If it wasn’t meant for me, then don’t roll it out to me. I think the only person missing a point here is you. You’re acting like @GroundedWisdom, this was poorly executed, it’s as simple as that.
Mind you, there aren’t enough Krakoan Flowers to get all the points. The only way to get them is to go in, fight and restart the quest. This is stupid design and clearly not well thought out.
Don’t come out with all these BS arguments such as: it’s not meant for you. Like I said - don’t roll it out to me if it’s not meant for me.
Rofl so it bothers you that much that they rolled it out for you? Hahahahaha sure lets tailor the game just for you... Yeah lets do that, not roll out lower EQs for you.. lower SQs.. let's make sure the game is designed and tailor just so you can be happy...
It’s not about making me happy. It’s about targeting audiences, that’s what we’re talking about.
Here’s what I’m trying to say: by rolling out a flawed system to me, which wasn’t intended for me, looks more like an experiment on the user base than anything else.
Eg. Let’s see if Paragon players are willing to spend additional time grinding for lower tier rewards.
If they need the items they will its simple as that. You have new and mid Paragons who would probably make use of an extra AG. YOU DON'T HAVE TO DO IT IF YOU DON'T WANT TO.
No way am I grinding for objectives that should be achieved already, I've put my ticket in and it's up to Kabam whether they want to do the right thing and fix the situation.
You are missing the point, those rewards are not targetted for you, they are targetted to people who became Paragon while the event was live. Its up to you to farm them or pass, you are not entitled to them.
Sorry, but you’re not exactly ‘targeting’ a specific aspect of the player base when you roll something out to everyone. What this does is involuntarily cause everybody who is not progressing to assess whether or not they should retroactively complete this by exploiting a loop. This is bullsh*t design.
Kabam is notorious for doing this. This is why there is a lot of outrage when summoners see an offer that doesn’t make sense, or when an AW meta is created for the top 1% then rolled out to everybody.
Its an actual pro player fix, yes its flawed but it actually benefits some players... You seem to be pretty agitated about it, which probably means you need or want the lower tier rewards too...Then get going and do them... They could have just let the month go the way it was.
The point here really is that if you've already done the higher tiers and gotten the points, and these events already should have been in the gMe from the start, why should ANYBODY have to do it all again?
Anybody who's already gotten the points in their highest tier should have been given the completion of lower tiers that should have been there from the start of the event.
They could have done nothing, leave the event as it was and told new Paragons to go kick rocks... Its allowing new and mid Paragons to get an extra AG at the expense of some effort. You don't wanna do it don't... Simple as that.
You missed my point.
Nobody should have to do it again, they should have been there from the start, as they intended, unless I misread the mail as to why they put it in a week later.
Yes you misread the mail, its intended for people who changed progression during the event, not meant for you.
If it wasn’t meant for me, then don’t roll it out to me. I think the only person missing a point here is you. You’re acting like @GroundedWisdom, this was poorly executed, it’s as simple as that.
Mind you, there aren’t enough Krakoan Flowers to get all the points. The only way to get them is to go in, fight and restart the quest. This is stupid design and clearly not well thought out.
Don’t come out with all these BS arguments such as: it’s not meant for you. Like I said - don’t roll it out to me if it’s not meant for me.
Rofl so it bothers you that much that they rolled it out for you? Hahahahaha sure lets tailor the game just for you... Yeah lets do that, not roll out lower EQs for you.. lower SQs.. let's make sure the game is designed and tailor just so you can be happy...
It’s not about making me happy. It’s about targeting audiences, that’s what we’re talking about.
Here’s what I’m trying to say: by rolling out a flawed system to me, which wasn’t intended for me, looks more like an experiment on the user base than anything else.
Eg. Let’s see what % of Paragon players are willing to spend additional time grinding for lower tier rewards.
I know it sounds silly, but that’s where my thoughts are based on this poorly executed design.
It isn't flawed at all. There have never been any guarantees that when we change progression levels, we are entitled to those Rewards automatically. Sometimes, as in the case of the Calendar, we have to wait until the next cycle. It was an act of courtesy if anything. They are no doubt aware that some people will claim all Rewards, and knew that when they released it. Just don't complain about the extra work when you choose to do it. Also, if you're going to insult someone using my name, don't tag me while you do it.
They have acknowledged 1 in the mail. You have totally misunderstood what this is.
They designed this month to only give rewards for your current progression. That was the intent for this month.
They realized during the event that if someone progressed a level, they could no longer finish the chain they had been working on.
To solve this problem, they decided to unlock all the progression rewards for everyone.
This was never intended for this month. They only intended you to get your current progression.
They had 3 choices. Pull and analyze the data to see who progressed than then limit the fix to those players, do nothing and those players are out of luck, or just unlock all levels for everyone knowing this means players are able to get more than intended this month.
They chose option 3 which was the quickest, least margin for error missing someone who was affected, and most player friendly because it means everyone can get extra.
So you’re mad they went with the best option for everyone because it’s causing you to consider grinding out extra rewards…
No way am I grinding for objectives that should be achieved already, I've put my ticket in and it's up to Kabam whether they want to do the right thing and fix the situation.
You are missing the point, those rewards are not targetted for you, they are targetted to people who became Paragon while the event was live. Its up to you to farm them or pass, you are not entitled to them.
Sorry, but you’re not exactly ‘targeting’ a specific aspect of the player base when you roll something out to everyone. What this does is involuntarily cause everybody who is not progressing to assess whether or not they should retroactively complete this by exploiting a loop. This is bullsh*t design.
Kabam is notorious for doing this. This is why there is a lot of outrage when summoners see an offer that doesn’t make sense, or when an AW meta is created for the top 1% then rolled out to everybody.
Its an actual pro player fix, yes its flawed but it actually benefits some players... You seem to be pretty agitated about it, which probably means you need or want the lower tier rewards too...Then get going and do them... They could have just let the month go the way it was.
The point here really is that if you've already done the higher tiers and gotten the points, and these events already should have been in the gMe from the start, why should ANYBODY have to do it all again?
Anybody who's already gotten the points in their highest tier should have been given the completion of lower tiers that should have been there from the start of the event.
They could have done nothing, leave the event as it was and told new Paragons to go kick rocks... Its allowing new and mid Paragons to get an extra AG at the expense of some effort. You don't wanna do it don't... Simple as that.
You missed my point.
Nobody should have to do it again, they should have been there from the start, as they intended, unless I misread the mail as to why they put it in a week later.
Yes you misread the mail, its intended for people who changed progression during the event, not meant for you.
They have acknowledged 1 in the mail. You have totally misunderstood what this is.
They designed this month to only give rewards for your current progression. That was the intent for this month.
They realized during the event that if someone progressed a level, they could no longer finish the chain they had been working on.
To solve this problem, they decided to unlock all the progression rewards for everyone.
This was never intended for this month. They only intended you to get your current progression.
They had 3 choices. Pull and analyze the data to see who progressed than then limit the fix to those players, do nothing and those players are out of luck, or just unlock all levels for everyone knowing this means players are able to get more than intended this month.
They chose option 3 which was the quickest, least margin for error missing someone who was affected, and most player friendly because it means everyone can get extra.
So you’re mad they went with the best option for everyone because it’s causing you to consider grinding out extra rewards…
Thanks for the clarification. Less of a courtesy then. Even still, if someone wants to do them all, it will take more effort than intended.
No way am I grinding for objectives that should be achieved already, I've put my ticket in and it's up to Kabam whether they want to do the right thing and fix the situation.
You are missing the point, those rewards are not targetted for you, they are targetted to people who became Paragon while the event was live. Its up to you to farm them or pass, you are not entitled to them.
Sorry, but you’re not exactly ‘targeting’ a specific aspect of the player base when you roll something out to everyone. What this does is involuntarily cause everybody who is not progressing to assess whether or not they should retroactively complete this by exploiting a loop. This is bullsh*t design.
Kabam is notorious for doing this. This is why there is a lot of outrage when summoners see an offer that doesn’t make sense, or when an AW meta is created for the top 1% then rolled out to everybody.
Its an actual pro player fix, yes its flawed but it actually benefits some players... You seem to be pretty agitated about it, which probably means you need or want the lower tier rewards too...Then get going and do them... They could have just let the month go the way it was.
The point here really is that if you've already done the higher tiers and gotten the points, and these events already should have been in the gMe from the start, why should ANYBODY have to do it all again?
Anybody who's already gotten the points in their highest tier should have been given the completion of lower tiers that should have been there from the start of the event.
They could have done nothing, leave the event as it was and told new Paragons to go kick rocks... Its allowing new and mid Paragons to get an extra AG at the expense of some effort. You don't wanna do it don't... Simple as that.
You missed my point.
Nobody should have to do it again, they should have been there from the start, as they intended, unless I misread the mail as to why they put it in a week later.
Yes you misread the mail, its intended for people who changed progression during the event, not meant for you.
If it wasn’t meant for me, then don’t roll it out to me. I think the only person missing a point here is you. You’re acting like @GroundedWisdom, this was poorly executed, it’s as simple as that.
Mind you, there aren’t enough Krakoan Flowers to get all the points. The only way to get them is to go in, fight and restart the quest. This is stupid design and clearly not well thought out.
Don’t come out with all these BS arguments such as: it’s not meant for you. Like I said - don’t roll it out to me if it’s not meant for me.
Rofl so it bothers you that much that they rolled it out for you? Hahahahaha sure lets tailor the game just for you... Yeah lets do that, not roll out lower EQs for you.. lower SQs.. let's make sure the game is designed and tailor just so you can be happy...
It’s not about making me happy. It’s about targeting audiences, that’s what we’re talking about.
Here’s what I’m trying to say: by rolling out a flawed system to me, which wasn’t intended for me, looks more like an experiment on the user base than anything else.
Eg. Let’s see what % of Paragon players are willing to spend additional time grinding for lower tier rewards.
I know it sounds silly, but that’s where my thoughts are based on this poorly executed design.
Also, if you're going to insult someone using my name, don't tag me while you do it.
Sorry @GroundedWisdom, that was in bad taste. Just a reference to how you sometimes miss the other person’s point. Doesn’t justify using your name though. Peace and love ☮️ ✌🏼
They have acknowledged 1 in the mail. You have totally misunderstood what this is.
They designed this month to only give rewards for your current progression. That was the intent for this month.
They realized during the event that if someone progressed a level, they could no longer finish the chain they had been working on.
To solve this problem, they decided to unlock all the progression rewards for everyone.
This was never intended for this month. They only intended you to get your current progression.
They had 3 choices. Pull and analyze the data to see who progressed than then limit the fix to those players, do nothing and those players are out of luck, or just unlock all levels for everyone knowing this means players are able to get more than intended this month.
They chose option 3 which was the quickest, least margin for error missing someone who was affected, and most player friendly because it means everyone can get extra.
So you’re mad they went with the best option for everyone because it’s causing you to consider grinding out extra rewards…
I don’t know - we can agree to disagree. If some part of the player base is happy - so be it. I don’t have to be happy. I know I am not doing the grind, and frankly I don’t care for the rewards. That’s not my issue here.
My issue is the conduct, or lack thereof, on Kabam’s part. As part of poor design and execution, one would expect compensation. So while you may argue for Kabam and say option 3 is easiest, I actually think they could have done the courtesy of allocating our current number of points to the newly unlocked objectives. There aren’t enough Krakoan Flowers to get them naturally by the end of the month, and opening the door for summoners to track backwards through an incomplete loop to get those rewards flat out sucks, and looks intentional to me.
I don’t like it, one bit. And that’s the hill that I’m going to die on.
Comments
I don’t remember the full context of the Cyclops comment but I can imagine the case where it was misconstrued. I can imagine someone randomly stating “No one ever uses him because he’s so bad” in which case Mike’s comment makes sense. It targets that notion with a counter that a contingency of users exists contrary to the claim. The community only sees “cyclops good” and runs.
However, I can also imagine the alternative: the comment was put forward in a conversation about him being under-tuned and needing a buff. Assuming we believe that cyclops is under-tuned, then presenting that statement in that context can be for one of two reasons: 1) as a case against the idea that he’s under-tuned or 2) as a completely isolated statement about the existence of some players somewhere who use him at some unspecified level of efficiency, which would be a a bit of a red herring if it doesn’t actually change anything about the conclusion that he needs to be buffed. Kind of like if we all decided to tell a friend to stop driving on flat tires only for someone to pop up their hand and say “some people have gotten good mileage on flat tires”. You’re either making the case against changing them (which would warrant mocking) or added something to the conversation which changes nothing about the argument (in which case it would be wrong to mock you for saying we shouldn't change them but then we should ask why you opted to make the comment at all). Depending on how those comments were relayed I may be in complete agreement with you there
I believe Jax’s comment falls into a slightly different category as the context doesn’t really change the substance of the criticism in that no context changes the invalidity of those particular words chosen. What’s being targeted there is really the hyperbole, which can certainly be joked about without falling into the pitfall of genuinely believing that there is no time consideration in the economy management. In fact, its only funny to make fun of expressly because we all know (I hope) that it isn’t true. I think we all can agree that “Certain portions of the game will reward time commitment differently” (which is closer to the heart of the paragraph he wrote) isnt all that disagreeable. Choosing to write “[time] isnt a relevant resource in the game’s economical balance” doesn’t capture that though. It was, in all likelihood, the complete wrong choice of words- which happens. Some teasing is warranted though
I think to say he was taken out of context would be a bit contentious here since the broader context was specifically that these champions were not supposed to be poor performers and some of those additions were laughable. I can see the grey in this though
Which on the one hand is something I would ordinarily want to dispute, but on the other hand, for the purposes of anyone that I have any chance of reaching at all on this topic, actually make my argument better than anything I could say.
One is about an ingame champ .. the other is about player behavior.
They can defend a champ utility all they want and people may still think its trash; but the unfortunate comment about time being irrelevant kinda makes f2P grinders feel bad. I don't think Cyclops feelings can be hurt.
I had read what you said about considering under the context of endgame content. This doesn’t change my claim and I didn’t intend to imply that you didn’t offer any context. I just don’t agree that what you offered changes anything. To respond more specifically though, I think I would disagree that kabam doesn’t consider time as a factor when making end game content. So, under that (and every other) context, I disagree with the claim that time is not a relevant resource for the game economy balancing.
On this topic, Kabam tried to fix an unforseen issue and ended up giving everyone the option to pick up some extra rewards if you want to grind it out. That seems like a good move and I’m glad players that moved up a level didn’t get short changed this month. Good on Kabam for finding a quick solution and implementing it even if it meant giving out more rewards than they intended this month.
Kabam is notorious for doing this. This is why there is a lot of outrage when summoners see an offer that doesn’t make sense, or when an AW meta is created for the top 1% then rolled out to everybody.
I think assuming this was intentionally done to give people even more to do during an already busy time and give out more rewards than initially announced is crossing into tinfoil hat territory.
To me, it seems like they made a mistake, recognized it, and (for Kabam) very quickly came up with a player friendly solution. There are plenty of valid complaints about the game. I don’t think complaining that this fix is forcing you to think about grinding for even more rewards is one of them.
What are you proposing? Are you asking that they retroactively give you the same score you had in your current progression for all progression levels? So you are upset they didn’t just hand out a pile of extra rewards and instead you have to do some minimal grinding if you want them?
Anybody who's already gotten the points in their highest tier should have been given the completion of lower tiers that should have been there from the start of the event.
Anyways, i will try it out today.
I've been using the flowers daily and have 64 points and only have this left to do.
Its allowing new and mid Paragons to get an extra AG at the expense of some effort.
You don't wanna do it don't... Simple as that.
Nobody should have to do it again, they should have been there from the start, as they intended, unless I misread the mail as to why they put it in a week later.
Mind you, there aren’t enough Krakoan Flowers to get all the points. The only way to get them is to go in, fight and restart the quest. This is stupid design and clearly not well thought out.
Don’t come out with all these BS arguments such as: it’s not meant for you. Like I said - don’t roll it out to me if it’s not meant for me.
Yeah lets do that, not roll out lower EQs for you.. lower SQs.. let's make sure the game is designed and tailor just so you can be happy...
Yes we both agree that it is poor design, so why did you flip a switch and start asking me if I wanted rewards for doing nothing? Pick a side and let’s continue the debate accordingly.
1) It is poorly designed and executed.
2) There are not enough Krakoan Flowers to get the points.
3) To get the points you need to exploit a flawed loop by fighting, quitting before exiting then doing it again.
4) If I’m not the target audience, don’t send it to me.
5) If you’re going to send it to me anyway because you’re too lazy to figure out your target audience, then add the points I’ve already accumulated at my tier.
Because they haven’t acknowledged 1) and decided not to do 5), it looks to me like an experiment. Which, if you have any experience in startups or corporate, you would realize that they are more likely to perform experiments on their users; regardless of the user’s whims. So that’s your tinfoil hat argument down the drain. If anything, you’re the one with the tinfoil hat.
Here’s what I’m trying to say: by rolling out a flawed system to me, which wasn’t intended for me, looks more like an experiment on the user base than anything else.
Eg. Let’s see what % of Paragon players are willing to spend additional time grinding for lower tier rewards.
I know it sounds silly, but that’s where my thoughts are based on this poorly executed design.
You have new and mid Paragons who would probably make use of an extra AG. YOU DON'T HAVE TO DO IT IF YOU DON'T WANT TO.
Just don't complain about the extra work when you choose to do it.
Also, if you're going to insult someone using my name, don't tag me while you do it.
They designed this month to only give rewards for your current progression. That was the intent for this month.
They realized during the event that if someone progressed a level, they could no longer finish the chain they had been working on.
To solve this problem, they decided to unlock all the progression rewards for everyone.
This was never intended for this month. They only intended you to get your current progression.
They had 3 choices. Pull and analyze the data to see who progressed than then limit the fix to those players, do nothing and those players are out of luck, or just unlock all levels for everyone knowing this means players are able to get more than intended this month.
They chose option 3 which was the quickest, least margin for error missing someone who was affected, and most player friendly because it means everyone can get extra.
So you’re mad they went with the best option for everyone because it’s causing you to consider grinding out extra rewards…
Peace and love ☮️ ✌🏼
My issue is the conduct, or lack thereof, on Kabam’s part. As part of poor design and execution, one would expect compensation. So while you may argue for Kabam and say option 3 is easiest, I actually think they could have done the courtesy of allocating our current number of points to the newly unlocked objectives. There aren’t enough Krakoan Flowers to get them naturally by the end of the month, and opening the door for summoners to track backwards through an incomplete loop to get those rewards flat out sucks, and looks intentional to me.
I don’t like it, one bit. And that’s the hill that I’m going to die on.