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Curious, Photon or Sandman?

CoffeeLoverCoffeeLover Posts: 33 ★
in General Discussion
Sandman got more utility, more immunities, lax playstyle, decent damage.

Photon got some utility; bleed immune, miss counter and insane damage... but dunno much else, she could miss tho, but with the control bug going on I don't know how to proc it, struggling with unstoppable opponents with her.

Any elaborate answers guys, based on experience that is...

Thanks in advance
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  • Options
    Vegeta9001Vegeta9001 Posts: 1,348 ★★★★
    Curious imo
  • Options
    CvlrCvlr Posts: 204 ★★
    Not close 🤣
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    WednesdayLengthWednesdayLength Posts: 201 ★★
    13579rebel_ said:

    Sandman was done dirty with his buff it was very good but then kabam decided to nerf him and now he is still a noodle

    Definitely go with photon

    If you think he hits like a noodle then you just haven't played him
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    WednesdayLengthWednesdayLength Posts: 201 ★★
    Priyabrata said:

    .... are you being fr right now ? Sandman is no where near Photon's level she's literally top 5 science and she's not 5th, heck she's arguably the best dual threat science 7*.
    I will go into detail if you need
    Photon
    - is a great attacker and defender
    - stun counter(untouchable),
    - miss counter (mediums don't miss, all attacks don't miss in pure light form )
    - can parry non contact hits(shuri, Nova, ebony maw)
    - Immune to Neutralize
    - reducing opponents crit resistance to zero(doom counter)
    - can stop healing with despair cause she has so many debuffs, and it goes without saying she works for debuff heavy matchups
    - completely shuts down willpower
    - unblockable specials
    - can work for LONGER FLIGHTS since she can raise her damage ceiling by a considerable amount and she already has great damage
    - AND SHE HAS REGEN

    Sandman has great utility, no one's saying otherwise BUT photon has much more meta utility and much better damage and safety net.

    No shot she's top 5 science. She's definitely good, probably top 10 defender right now, but on attack she really doesn't work as well as titania, torch, overseer, scorpion, and I would argue sandman. Her rotation works decently well in the first fight in a quest but as soon as you start with a higher persistent charge its so much harder to use her optional rotation and all the little things you've mentioned don't really make her a top 5 science which is arguably the most competitive class in the game.

    I've won more bg matches with sandman as a defender than her simply because people underestimate how strong his ability to time out a match is. She's good absolutely, but what you're describing is not a top 5 science and calling her thr best dual threat science 7 star is like an uber specific category which at the stage of the game we're at with 7 stars doesn't meanba whole lot.
  • Options
    WednesdayLengthWednesdayLength Posts: 201 ★★
    They're both solid but personally I think in attack sandman is way more consistent and is generally a lot more fun to play.
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    Kingering_KingKingering_King Posts: 287 ★
    Sandman is crazy. 7* r1 and taking act 7+8 paths and bosses by himself.
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    CvlrCvlr Posts: 204 ★★
    Kingering_King said:

    Sandman is crazy. 7* r1 and taking act 7+8 paths and bosses by himself.

    That's not an incredible feat lmao
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    CoffeeLoverCoffeeLover Posts: 33 ★
    Kingering_King said:

    Sandman is crazy. 7* r1 and taking act 7+8 paths and bosses by himself.

    Fr?? I honestly need another science champ in my roster that can do this... my other one is in between AW or Questing
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    CoffeeLoverCoffeeLover Posts: 33 ★
    edited March 28
    My test target was RoL WS, which then I saw her damage seemed like some R2 6*

    Photon insane damage, Sandman need to watch out when the root will end

    Both not leveled up yet, waiting for the 'Level Up' objective hahah

    Still plenty of time to change between Sand and Photon

    But too bad I'm sharing resources with Valkyrie

    This post is about the champs being in the attacking position in case someone missed what I meant
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    MagrailothosMagrailothos Posts: 5,375 ★★★★★
    Sandman isn't a noodle, his damage isn't great, but it's not bad (I genuinely quite like him).

    Still, Photon's damage is better; and she's an insane defender, whereas Sandman can't defend for toffee. If you run Willpower, most fights against Sandman will finish with you at 100% health. If Sandman wins you more BG matches than Photon, it's only because Photon is banned most of the time.

    Utility-wise, they do a variety of different things, and both are great; but what Photon does (nicely summarised by @Priyabrata above) is rarer - what Sandman does (heal reversal, countering Evade and Unstoppable, and an admittedly cracking set of immunities) is stuff plenty of other champions do; even if very few cover the range of things he does.
  • Options
    EdisonLawEdisonLaw Posts: 1,941 ★★★★
    WednesdayLength said:

    Priyabrata said:

    .... are you being fr right now ? Sandman is no where near Photon's level she's literally top 5 science and she's not 5th, heck she's arguably the best dual threat science 7*.
    I will go into detail if you need
    Photon
    - is a great attacker and defender
    - stun counter(untouchable),
    - miss counter (mediums don't miss, all attacks don't miss in pure light form )
    - can parry non contact hits(shuri, Nova, ebony maw)
    - Immune to Neutralize
    - reducing opponents crit resistance to zero(doom counter)
    - can stop healing with despair cause she has so many debuffs, and it goes without saying she works for debuff heavy matchups
    - completely shuts down willpower
    - unblockable specials
    - can work for LONGER FLIGHTS since she can raise her damage ceiling by a considerable amount and she already has great damage
    - AND SHE HAS REGEN

    Sandman has great utility, no one's saying otherwise BUT photon has much more meta utility and much better damage and safety net.

    No shot she's top 5 science. She's definitely good, probably top 10 defender right now, but on attack she really doesn't work as well as titania, torch, overseer, scorpion, and I would argue sandman. Her rotation works decently well in the first fight in a quest but as soon as you start with a higher persistent charge its so much harder to use her optional rotation and all the little things you've mentioned don't really make her a top 5 science which is arguably the most competitive class in the game.

    I've won more bg matches with sandman as a defender than her simply because people underestimate how strong his ability to time out a match is. She's good absolutely, but what you're describing is not a top 5 science and calling her thr best dual threat science 7 star is like an uber specific category which at the stage of the game we're at with 7 stars doesn't meanba whole lot.
    Sandman isn't that great of a defender compared to Photon
  • Options
    captain_rogerscaptain_rogers Posts: 3,970 ★★★★★
    I used photon against dani wow and she killed her in 1 revive.

    My photon is r4 6*

    For reference, I used gully deathless 7* r1(4 revives) and 7* r2 sunspot (3 revives), so arguably photon did better than them despite being a low rank champ.
  • Options
    GreekhitGreekhit Posts: 2,819 ★★★★★
    WednesdayLength said:

    Priyabrata said:

    .... are you being fr right now ? Sandman is no where near Photon's level she's literally top 5 science and she's not 5th, heck she's arguably the best dual threat science 7*.
    I will go into detail if you need
    Photon
    - is a great attacker and defender
    - stun counter(untouchable),
    - miss counter (mediums don't miss, all attacks don't miss in pure light form )
    - can parry non contact hits(shuri, Nova, ebony maw)
    - Immune to Neutralize
    - reducing opponents crit resistance to zero(doom counter)
    - can stop healing with despair cause she has so many debuffs, and it goes without saying she works for debuff heavy matchups
    - completely shuts down willpower
    - unblockable specials
    - can work for LONGER FLIGHTS since she can raise her damage ceiling by a considerable amount and she already has great damage
    - AND SHE HAS REGEN

    Sandman has great utility, no one's saying otherwise BUT photon has much more meta utility and much better damage and safety net.

    No shot she's top 5 science. She's definitely good, probably top 10 defender right now, but on attack she really doesn't work as well as titania, torch, overseer, scorpion, and I would argue sandman. Her rotation works decently well in the first fight in a quest but as soon as you start with a higher persistent charge its so much harder to use her optional rotation and all the little things you've mentioned don't really make her a top 5 science which is arguably the most competitive class in the game.

    I've won more bg matches with sandman as a defender than her simply because people underestimate how strong his ability to time out a match is. She's good absolutely, but what you're describing is not a top 5 science and calling her thr best dual threat science 7 star is like an uber specific category which at the stage of the game we're at with 7 stars doesn't meanba whole lot.
    Sorry to burst your bubble, but Photon currently is maybe the strongest Science champ available, considering that someone can have a 7* r3 awakened Photon, while other Science champs that are at the top of the class like Scorpion or Torch, are gated to max 6*r5+.
    Make yourself this question:
    Hypothetically Kabam gives out to all players a selector that contains 6*r5+ Scorpion, 6*r5+ Torch, and 7*r3 Photon.
    Assuming players don’t have any of them, who would you think will be the most selected of the three?
    You have your answer for who is the strongest champ 🤷‍♂️
    *To make it more fair to other champs 7*r3 Photon wouldn’t contribute for reaching Valliant title 😉
    It would be interesting to see the community results of this poll, but I’m too lazy to create a forum poll for this 😂
  • Options
    EdisonLawEdisonLaw Posts: 1,941 ★★★★
    @Greekhit She may be the best dual threat Science champ but the best one overall is Scorpion
  • Options
    CoffeeLoverCoffeeLover Posts: 33 ★
    Ahh cool, think I got my conclusion... don't bring scorp into this, he's easily maxed out material

    Photon it is, seemed like she's along with the meta and onwards...

    Been looking for one to handle niche annoyances like Man Thing, good defender mystics with unstoppable nodes (which I'll keep on be using QS then)

    Still hadn't got buff immune, nulify immune champs... hope to get one soon

    Back to Photon, for attack that is, seems like her insane damage could end fights faster than the more trouble in getting around the nodes and the AI... so yeah, guess when it comes to insane damage with supporting utilities why would one miss it out besides not getting the champ.

    And yeah, that's about it then... Thank you all!
  • Options
    PriyabrataPriyabrata Posts: 740 ★★★
    WednesdayLength said:

    Priyabrata said:

    .... are you being fr right now ? Sandman is no where near Photon's level she's literally top 5 science and she's not 5th, heck she's arguably the best dual threat science 7*.
    I will go into detail if you need
    Photon
    - is a great attacker and defender
    - stun counter(untouchable),
    - miss counter (mediums don't miss, all attacks don't miss in pure light form )
    - can parry non contact hits(shuri, Nova, ebony maw)
    - Immune to Neutralize
    - reducing opponents crit resistance to zero(doom counter)
    - can stop healing with despair cause she has so many debuffs, and it goes without saying she works for debuff heavy matchups
    - completely shuts down willpower
    - unblockable specials
    - can work for LONGER FLIGHTS since she can raise her damage ceiling by a considerable amount and she already has great damage
    - AND SHE HAS REGEN

    Sandman has great utility, no one's saying otherwise BUT photon has much more meta utility and much better damage and safety net.

    No shot she's top 5 science. She's definitely good, probably top 10 defender right now, but on attack she really doesn't work as well as titania, torch, overseer, scorpion, and I would argue sandman. Her rotation works decently well in the first fight in a quest but as soon as you start with a higher persistent charge its so much harder to use her optional rotation and all the little things you've mentioned don't really make her a top 5 science which is arguably the most competitive class in the game.

    I've won more bg matches with sandman as a defender than her simply because people underestimate how strong his ability to time out a match is. She's good absolutely, but what you're describing is not a top 5 science and calling her thr best dual threat science 7 star is like an uber specific category which at the stage of the game we're at with 7 stars doesn't meanba whole lot.
    If you think photon isn't top 5 science, my guy you need to open your damn eyes cause you're sleeping so hard on her. Just cause you see her as a defender most of the time doesn't mean she is not a good attacker.
  • Options
    Emilia90Emilia90 Posts: 1,816 ★★★★★
    WednesdayLength said:

    They're both solid but personally I think in attack sandman is way more consistent and is generally a lot more fun to play.

    Photon is top 5 science easy and what do you even mean sandman is more consistent lmao. Photon’s cooked WoW bosses and cooks battlegrounds fights super fast. Sandman takes 10 hours to do anything meaningful
  • Options
    WednesdayLengthWednesdayLength Posts: 201 ★★
    EdisonLaw said:

    WednesdayLength said:

    Priyabrata said:

    .... are you being fr right now ? Sandman is no where near Photon's level she's literally top 5 science and she's not 5th, heck she's arguably the best dual threat science 7*.
    I will go into detail if you need
    Photon
    - is a great attacker and defender
    - stun counter(untouchable),
    - miss counter (mediums don't miss, all attacks don't miss in pure light form )
    - can parry non contact hits(shuri, Nova, ebony maw)
    - Immune to Neutralize
    - reducing opponents crit resistance to zero(doom counter)
    - can stop healing with despair cause she has so many debuffs, and it goes without saying she works for debuff heavy matchups
    - completely shuts down willpower
    - unblockable specials
    - can work for LONGER FLIGHTS since she can raise her damage ceiling by a considerable amount and she already has great damage
    - AND SHE HAS REGEN

    Sandman has great utility, no one's saying otherwise BUT photon has much more meta utility and much better damage and safety net.

    No shot she's top 5 science. She's definitely good, probably top 10 defender right now, but on attack she really doesn't work as well as titania, torch, overseer, scorpion, and I would argue sandman. Her rotation works decently well in the first fight in a quest but as soon as you start with a higher persistent charge its so much harder to use her optional rotation and all the little things you've mentioned don't really make her a top 5 science which is arguably the most competitive class in the game.

    I've won more bg matches with sandman as a defender than her simply because people underestimate how strong his ability to time out a match is. She's good absolutely, but what you're describing is not a top 5 science and calling her thr best dual threat science 7 star is like an uber specific category which at the stage of the game we're at with 7 stars doesn't meanba whole lot.
    Sandman isn't that great of a defender compared to Photon
    In battlegrounds he's surprising useful. He's not that hard to fight but without an unstoppable counter he's really good at running the clock out because of his long specials and unstoppable which is shockingly good on defense
  • Options
    WednesdayLengthWednesdayLength Posts: 201 ★★
    Greekhit said:

    WednesdayLength said:

    Priyabrata said:

    .... are you being fr right now ? Sandman is no where near Photon's level she's literally top 5 science and she's not 5th, heck she's arguably the best dual threat science 7*.
    I will go into detail if you need
    Photon
    - is a great attacker and defender
    - stun counter(untouchable),
    - miss counter (mediums don't miss, all attacks don't miss in pure light form )
    - can parry non contact hits(shuri, Nova, ebony maw)
    - Immune to Neutralize
    - reducing opponents crit resistance to zero(doom counter)
    - can stop healing with despair cause she has so many debuffs, and it goes without saying she works for debuff heavy matchups
    - completely shuts down willpower
    - unblockable specials
    - can work for LONGER FLIGHTS since she can raise her damage ceiling by a considerable amount and she already has great damage
    - AND SHE HAS REGEN

    Sandman has great utility, no one's saying otherwise BUT photon has much more meta utility and much better damage and safety net.

    No shot she's top 5 science. She's definitely good, probably top 10 defender right now, but on attack she really doesn't work as well as titania, torch, overseer, scorpion, and I would argue sandman. Her rotation works decently well in the first fight in a quest but as soon as you start with a higher persistent charge its so much harder to use her optional rotation and all the little things you've mentioned don't really make her a top 5 science which is arguably the most competitive class in the game.

    I've won more bg matches with sandman as a defender than her simply because people underestimate how strong his ability to time out a match is. She's good absolutely, but what you're describing is not a top 5 science and calling her thr best dual threat science 7 star is like an uber specific category which at the stage of the game we're at with 7 stars doesn't meanba whole lot.
    Sorry to burst your bubble, but Photon currently is maybe the strongest Science champ available, considering that someone can have a 7* r3 awakened Photon, while other Science champs that are at the top of the class like Scorpion or Torch, are gated to max 6*r5+.
    Make yourself this question:
    Hypothetically Kabam gives out to all players a selector that contains 6*r5+ Scorpion, 6*r5+ Torch, and 7*r3 Photon.
    Assuming players don’t have any of them, who would you think will be the most selected of the three?
    You have your answer for who is the strongest champ 🤷‍♂️
    *To make it more fair to other champs 7*r3 Photon wouldn’t contribute for reaching Valliant title 😉
    It would be interesting to see the community results of this poll, but I’m too lazy to create a forum poll for this 😂
    I'm still going titania over her for as a 7 star
  • Options
    WednesdayLengthWednesdayLength Posts: 201 ★★
    Emilia90 said:

    WednesdayLength said:

    They're both solid but personally I think in attack sandman is way more consistent and is generally a lot more fun to play.

    Photon is top 5 science easy and what do you even mean sandman is more consistent lmao. Photon’s cooked WoW bosses and cooks battlegrounds fights super fast. Sandman takes 10 hours to do anything meaningful
    Sandman doesn't take 10 hours, play his charges right and you can get bg defenders down in 1 instability rotation. He's more consistent because he doesn't have to change his rotation depending on how many charges he starts a fight with like Photon because her ideal rotation is simply not possible if you start with more than like 6 of her charges. I've tried using Photon for attack and I'm yet to be impressed by her damage or speed
  • Options
    WednesdayLengthWednesdayLength Posts: 201 ★★
    Priyabrata said:

    WednesdayLength said:

    Priyabrata said:

    .... are you being fr right now ? Sandman is no where near Photon's level she's literally top 5 science and she's not 5th, heck she's arguably the best dual threat science 7*.
    I will go into detail if you need
    Photon
    - is a great attacker and defender
    - stun counter(untouchable),
    - miss counter (mediums don't miss, all attacks don't miss in pure light form )
    - can parry non contact hits(shuri, Nova, ebony maw)
    - Immune to Neutralize
    - reducing opponents crit resistance to zero(doom counter)
    - can stop healing with despair cause she has so many debuffs, and it goes without saying she works for debuff heavy matchups
    - completely shuts down willpower
    - unblockable specials
    - can work for LONGER FLIGHTS since she can raise her damage ceiling by a considerable amount and she already has great damage
    - AND SHE HAS REGEN

    Sandman has great utility, no one's saying otherwise BUT photon has much more meta utility and much better damage and safety net.

    No shot she's top 5 science. She's definitely good, probably top 10 defender right now, but on attack she really doesn't work as well as titania, torch, overseer, scorpion, and I would argue sandman. Her rotation works decently well in the first fight in a quest but as soon as you start with a higher persistent charge its so much harder to use her optional rotation and all the little things you've mentioned don't really make her a top 5 science which is arguably the most competitive class in the game.

    I've won more bg matches with sandman as a defender than her simply because people underestimate how strong his ability to time out a match is. She's good absolutely, but what you're describing is not a top 5 science and calling her thr best dual threat science 7 star is like an uber specific category which at the stage of the game we're at with 7 stars doesn't meanba whole lot.
    If you think photon isn't top 5 science, my guy you need to open your damn eyes cause you're sleeping so hard on her. Just cause you see her as a defender most of the time doesn't mean she is not a good attacker.
    I've used her as an attacker and I'm simply not impressed. Her rotation feels sluggish and starting with different amounts of charges throws her rotation off which becomes very frustrating, her damage is solid but generally feels pretty awkward to access and never feels worth the ramp up to get there, and her utility is primarily used on defense whereas in attack she mainly has her bleed immunity.

    I'm not saying sandman is objectively better than her or that's she's trash or anything, I'm just saying I've player her extensively and have just never been that impressed with her whereas sandman feels a lot better to play and his damage ramp up is a lot more consistent once you get to grips with his his charges work
  • Options
    captain_rogerscaptain_rogers Posts: 3,970 ★★★★★
    Why is this even a debate? Photon is way better than sandman for bgs. And for questing, photon is a better attacker since she can transfer her charges between fights. Photon is a extremely good defender, easily top 5 in the game based on defense. Sandman and photon aren't even in the same league.
  • Options
    WednesdayLengthWednesdayLength Posts: 201 ★★
    captain_rogers said:

    Why is this even a debate? Photon is way better than sandman for bgs. And for questing, photon is a better attacker since she can transfer her charges between fights. Photon is a extremely good defender, easily top 5 in the game based on defense. Sandman and photon aren't even in the same league.

    Her transferring her charges makes it harder to actually use her ideal rotation though, I honestly find her way too awkward to use as an attacker across a quest and her damage pay off is just not worth the hassle in a lot of cases imo
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    MagrailothosMagrailothos Posts: 5,375 ★★★★★
    WednesdayLength said:

    captain_rogers said:

    Why is this even a debate? Photon is way better than sandman for bgs. And for questing, photon is a better attacker since she can transfer her charges between fights. Photon is a extremely good defender, easily top 5 in the game based on defense. Sandman and photon aren't even in the same league.

    Her transferring her charges makes it harder to actually use her ideal rotation though, I honestly find her way too awkward to use as an attacker across a quest and her damage pay off is just not worth the hassle in a lot of cases imo
    Whilst I largely disagree, I do think this 'downside' of persistent charges is an interesting perspective.

    Small point though: this clearly won't be a problem in Battlegrounds...
  • Options
    RiderofHellRiderofHell Posts: 4,402 ★★★★★
    Didn't see photon taking on abs in week 1 of winter of woe. 🤣
  • Options
    OakenshieldOakenshield Posts: 1,691 ★★★★
    edited March 29
    Well, since the OP got his question answered, I was going to ask about similar options:

    Air Walker vs. Hulkling
    Moon knight vs. Kingpin
    Cyclops vs. Onslaught
    Green Goblin vs. Shuri
    Loki vs. Kushala

    And yes, I’m kidding. I didn’t think the OP was serious initially
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