Balance Update - Dust & Ironheart [Discussion]

Wolf911

what would you like to see changed in these champs?

( yes I have both of them from back to back titans )

for me

Dust - reduce her prowess to 50 and increase their potency ( 8% per prowess would be great )

Ironheart - different way to pause all her debuffs ( a way to refresh them would also be nice 😜 )

EdisonLaw

I think Dust is fine for now. Agreed on Ironheart, she needs a way to refresh her DOT

Emilia90

I’m really praying that Ironheart gets that change. Dust’s would be great too and she’d be a fast attacker. I’m kinda afraid that Kabam isn’t going to touch like any champs this year other than Sable and maybe Arcade and I hope they prove me wrong. So many champs this year just need one change and they’ll be amazing

StoneWhale2055

Dust doesn't need any changes but less but more potent prowess would be nice

Ironheart really needs an alternative refresh and she'd be much better, maybe a little bump in the numbers but refresh would still go a long way

EdisonLaw

Emilia90 said:

I’m really praying that Ironheart gets that change. Dust’s would be great too and she’d be a fast attacker. I’m kinda afraid that Kabam isn’t going to touch like any champs this year other than Sable and maybe Arcade and I hope they prove me wrong. So many champs this year just need one change and they’ll be amazing

They might nerf Serpent (on defense), as well as tune up Spider Punk, Northstar, NTW and Destroyer. Not expecting it but it’s a possibility.

Emilia90

EdisonLaw said:

Emilia90 said:

I’m really praying that Ironheart gets that change. Dust’s would be great too and she’d be a fast attacker. I’m kinda afraid that Kabam isn’t going to touch like any champs this year other than Sable and maybe Arcade and I hope they prove me wrong. So many champs this year just need one change and they’ll be amazing

They might nerf Serpent, as well as tune up Spider Punk, Northstar, NTW and Destroyer. Not expecting it but it’s a possibility.

Serpent nerf is definitely a good possibility and I pray that it’ll happen. He’s the one defender I think is completely bs no matter how you spin it. Bullseye was whatever and he’s annoying, but at least he’s frail. Serpent is just immune to everything in the game + damage res + massive power gain + cheat death lmao. What a fumble from DLL

Punk damage buff would be awesome, Northstar is good for endgame stuff so idk if they’d touch him, NTW is very unlikely imo but I hope so, and Destroyer is another one that I’m really hoping happens. Just needs faster ramp times or a few more buffs to destroy

Magrailothos

StoneWhale2055 said:

Dust doesn't need any changes but less but more potent prowess would be nice

Ironheart really needs an alternative refresh and she'd be much better, maybe a little bump in the numbers but refresh would still go a long way

Given that all the utility comes from stacking large numbers of debuffs, Ironheart needs longer debuffs; which will increase the bonus damage she can access on her SP2, as well.

According to her spotlight "One of her Goals was to be a stronger counter to some of the more powerful Meta Mutants in the game currently", and yet she's less than ideal against mutants like Onslaught as she's Metal, meaning she can't get rid of Neuroshocks. Giving her immunity to Neuroshocks seems a bit over-specific; but some Energy Resistance would do a lot for her...

Suggestions:
Possibly a small instead in debuff Potency; and a change in her Sig:

Old Sig

• While she has any active Armor Up effect, Ironheart gains a Bulwark Passive increasing Block Proficiency by +25%.
  
• Repulsor Debuffs gain 22.19% increased potency.
  
• + The regeneration part

New Sig

• For each active Armor Up effect, Ironheart gains an Energy Resistance Passive increasing Energy Resistance by +20%.
  
• Repulsor Debuffs gain 35% increased duration.
  
• + The regeneration part

EdisonLaw

Magrailothos said:

StoneWhale2055 said:

Dust doesn't need any changes but less but more potent prowess would be nice

Ironheart really needs an alternative refresh and she'd be much better, maybe a little bump in the numbers but refresh would still go a long way

Given that all the utility comes from stacking large numbers of debuffs, Ironheart needs longer debuffs; which will increase the bonus damage she can access on her SP2, as well.

According to her spotlight "One of her Goals was to be a stronger counter to some of the more powerful Meta Mutants in the game currently", and yet she's less than ideal against mutants like Onslaught as she's Metal, meaning she can't get rid of Neuroshocks. Giving her immunity to Neuroshocks seems a bit over-specific; but some Energy Resistance would do a lot for her...

Suggestions:
Possibly a small instead in debuff Potency; and a change in her Sig:

Old Sig

• While she has any active Armor Up effect, Ironheart gains a Bulwark Passive increasing Block Proficiency by +25%.
  
• Repulsor Debuffs gain 22.19% increased potency.
  
• + The regeneration part

New Sig

• For each active Armor Up effect, Ironheart gains an Energy Resistance Passive increasing Energy Resistance by +20%.
  
• Repulsor Debuffs gain 35% increased duration.
  
• + The regeneration part

I would suggest to keep the bulwarks plus a way to refresh incinerates/ruptures

willrun4adonut

I would just like to see Dust have a slightly longer sandstorm.

SecondSkriller

Dust is fine if you compare her to someone like Sandman who also has 3 immunities but not even close to her damage. She’s great on defense aswell, but to be honest a damage buff would really benefit her since Sandman is trash.

WhoDaPoo

Don't touch Dust, she's perfect!

BTW, when do we expect the actual info from Kabam on her? I really want to rank 3 her but I'm waiting on the final balance info.

EdisonLaw

WhoDaPoo said:

Don't touch Dust, she's perfect!

BTW, when do we expect the actual info from Kabam on her? I really want to rank 3 her but I'm waiting on the final balance info.

Probably this month unless they delay it again

EdisonLaw

@Magrailothos also what do you think of Destroyer? Is he good enough?
His damage seems to be pretty good to me, but his ramp up takes a while if not facing a buff heavy opponent. Also I feel like he should be able to destroy more buffs because right now it seems kinda niche

ItsClobberinTime

Ironheart: r2 Ironheart owner here, I don't think the pausing needs to be changed. What needs to be changed imo is the chance to gain armor buffs on light attacks, a tweak on that percentage would do a lot for her damage while also keeping her playstyle exactly the same. Pausing or refreshing debuffs would change her playstyle a bit and I think that's really not necessary when they can just tweak the percentage for the armors. It's not like she needs a huge bump in damage anyways, she needs one but not a massive one. If anything, they could maybe let her pause the debuffs with heavy with a long cooldown + higher chance to gain armor on light attacks but that's it.

Dust: 100% agree with that change although it's very unlikely it'll happen cause she is a relatively strong defender. That change would be great though.

Deacon

Iron Heart is severely underrated ... although I'm not overly fussed about updates, I can definitely get behind a numbers boost and some sort of debuff refreshing ... maybe do a wicked thing and have debuffs applied BOTH when she dexes and/or the opponent! debuff every time you avoid a hit .. let's go!

Side note, she's one of the few champs that are approved on my 'Friggin' list.

EdisonLaw

Deacon said:

Iron Heart is severely underrated ... although I'm not overly fussed about updates, I can definitely get behind a numbers boost and some sort of debuff refreshing ... maybe do a wicked thing and have debuffs applied BOTH when she dexes and/or the opponent! debuff every time you avoid a hit .. let's go!

Side note, she's one of the few champs that are approved on my 'Friggin' list.

Yeah she's definitely good, reminds me of a tech Scorpion + Guardian

altavista

Really like both champions and think people are underrating both.

I wouldn’t say no to increased damage, but of course a change could result in an overall negative change (like the Sandman “buff”).

I think Dust has less of a need of a tune up. Only thing might be a way to avoid giving Skill defenders (eg Killmonger or cleanse champions) an advantage.

With Ironheart, maybe removing the SP3 reduced potency on the indefinite debuff would be easiest. That way they don’t need to mess with other pausing mechanics or the debuffs themselves, since the SP3 will ensure a persistent level of damage even if debuffs drop off in a long match.

ItsClobberinTime

altavista said:

Really like both champions and think people are underrating both.

I wouldn’t say no to increased damage, but of course a change could result in an overall negative change (like the Sandman “buff”).

I think Dust has less of a need of a tune up. Only thing might be a way to avoid giving Skill defenders (eg Killmonger or cleanse champions) an advantage.

With Ironheart, maybe removing the SP3 reduced potency on the indefinite debuff would be easiest. That way they don’t need to mess with other pausing mechanics or the debuffs themselves, since the SP3 will ensure a persistent level of damage even if debuffs drop off in a long match.

I don't know about Dust but I'm pretty sure most people want Ironheart to get buffed for BGs so that change you suggested does basically nothing. For a champ who's strictly an attacker she 100% needs more damage.

Wolf911

ItsClobberinTime said:

Ironheart: r2 Ironheart owner here, I don't think the pausing needs to be changed. What needs to be changed imo is the chance to gain armor buffs on light attacks, a tweak on that percentage would do a lot for her damage while also keeping her playstyle exactly the same. Pausing or refreshing debuffs would change her playstyle a bit and I think that's really not necessary when they can just tweak the percentage for the armors. It's not like she needs a huge bump in damage anyways, she needs one but not a massive one. If anything, they could maybe let her pause the debuffs with heavy with a long cooldown + higher chance to gain armor on light attacks but that's it.

Dust: 100% agree with that change although it's very unlikely it'll happen cause she is a relatively strong defender. That change would be great though.

good idea on ironheart but I still think ironheart needs a way to pause her debuffs other than sp1

either 4th light pauses for 8 seconds and has 10 second cooldown

or heavy refreshing the DOT and having a 24 second cooldown

the armor percentage change would make her numbers better

agreed on Dust they probably won't touch her

Wolf911

willrun4adonut said:

I would just like to see Dust have a slightly longer sandstorm.

that would be great as AI doesn't want to throw specials easily and we loose time on the sandstorm

making her sp3 sandstorm longer will be good

ItsClobberinTime

Wolf911 said:

ItsClobberinTime said:

Ironheart: r2 Ironheart owner here, I don't think the pausing needs to be changed. What needs to be changed imo is the chance to gain armor buffs on light attacks, a tweak on that percentage would do a lot for her damage while also keeping her playstyle exactly the same. Pausing or refreshing debuffs would change her playstyle a bit and I think that's really not necessary when they can just tweak the percentage for the armors. It's not like she needs a huge bump in damage anyways, she needs one but not a massive one. If anything, they could maybe let her pause the debuffs with heavy with a long cooldown + higher chance to gain armor on light attacks but that's it.

Dust: 100% agree with that change although it's very unlikely it'll happen cause she is a relatively strong defender. That change would be great though.

good idea on ironheart but I still think ironheart needs a way to pause her debuffs other than sp1

either 4th light pauses for 8 seconds and has 10 second cooldown

or heavy refreshing the DOT and having a 24 second cooldown

the armor percentage change would make her numbers better

agreed on Dust they probably won't touch her

Hmmmm that's actually not a bad idea I suppose, perhaps they could change the fourth light attack to a pause instead of guaranteed armor and in exchange increase the chance to gain armor on all light attacks.
The cooldown should be 20 secs though, if you make it 10 then you would eliminate the need for sp1 pause almost completely and make her an absolute nuke. While I do think the tech class needs a Sunspot level nuke, I doubt Kabam would let that one slide lol.

Nightheart

Well the balance update will come out this month so we will see

Nightheart

I think dust is fine they will not change her ironheart would benefit from the change

EdisonLaw

ItsClobberinTime said:

Wolf911 said:

ItsClobberinTime said:

Ironheart: r2 Ironheart owner here, I don't think the pausing needs to be changed. What needs to be changed imo is the chance to gain armor buffs on light attacks, a tweak on that percentage would do a lot for her damage while also keeping her playstyle exactly the same. Pausing or refreshing debuffs would change her playstyle a bit and I think that's really not necessary when they can just tweak the percentage for the armors. It's not like she needs a huge bump in damage anyways, she needs one but not a massive one. If anything, they could maybe let her pause the debuffs with heavy with a long cooldown + higher chance to gain armor on light attacks but that's it.

Dust: 100% agree with that change although it's very unlikely it'll happen cause she is a relatively strong defender. That change would be great though.

good idea on ironheart but I still think ironheart needs a way to pause her debuffs other than sp1

either 4th light pauses for 8 seconds and has 10 second cooldown

or heavy refreshing the DOT and having a 24 second cooldown

the armor percentage change would make her numbers better

agreed on Dust they probably won't touch her

Hmmmm that's actually not a bad idea I suppose, perhaps they could change the fourth light attack to a pause instead of guaranteed armor and in exchange increase the chance to gain armor on all light attacks.
The cooldown should be 20 secs though, if you make it 10 then you would eliminate the need for sp1 pause almost completely and make her an absolute nuke. While I do think the tech class needs a Sunspot level nuke, I doubt Kabam would let that one slide lol.

Ghost is the closest thing to a tech nuke we have so far. But we need more

ItsClobberinTime

EdisonLaw said:

ItsClobberinTime said:

Wolf911 said:

ItsClobberinTime said:

Ironheart: r2 Ironheart owner here, I don't think the pausing needs to be changed. What needs to be changed imo is the chance to gain armor buffs on light attacks, a tweak on that percentage would do a lot for her damage while also keeping her playstyle exactly the same. Pausing or refreshing debuffs would change her playstyle a bit and I think that's really not necessary when they can just tweak the percentage for the armors. It's not like she needs a huge bump in damage anyways, she needs one but not a massive one. If anything, they could maybe let her pause the debuffs with heavy with a long cooldown + higher chance to gain armor on light attacks but that's it.

Dust: 100% agree with that change although it's very unlikely it'll happen cause she is a relatively strong defender. That change would be great though.

good idea on ironheart but I still think ironheart needs a way to pause her debuffs other than sp1

either 4th light pauses for 8 seconds and has 10 second cooldown

or heavy refreshing the DOT and having a 24 second cooldown

the armor percentage change would make her numbers better

agreed on Dust they probably won't touch her

Hmmmm that's actually not a bad idea I suppose, perhaps they could change the fourth light attack to a pause instead of guaranteed armor and in exchange increase the chance to gain armor on all light attacks.
The cooldown should be 20 secs though, if you make it 10 then you would eliminate the need for sp1 pause almost completely and make her an absolute nuke. While I do think the tech class needs a Sunspot level nuke, I doubt Kabam would let that one slide lol.

Ghost is the closest thing to a tech nuke we have so far. But we need more

Even she isn't that good nowadays, you don't even see her in decks anymore unless it's a meta with dot debuffs cause as it stands she can't really nuke most of the meta defenders. Ironheart 100% should be a CGR level nuke but they're scared for some weird reason.

EdisonLaw

ItsClobberinTime said:

EdisonLaw said:

ItsClobberinTime said:

Wolf911 said:

ItsClobberinTime said:

Ironheart: r2 Ironheart owner here, I don't think the pausing needs to be changed. What needs to be changed imo is the chance to gain armor buffs on light attacks, a tweak on that percentage would do a lot for her damage while also keeping her playstyle exactly the same. Pausing or refreshing debuffs would change her playstyle a bit and I think that's really not necessary when they can just tweak the percentage for the armors. It's not like she needs a huge bump in damage anyways, she needs one but not a massive one. If anything, they could maybe let her pause the debuffs with heavy with a long cooldown + higher chance to gain armor on light attacks but that's it.

Dust: 100% agree with that change although it's very unlikely it'll happen cause she is a relatively strong defender. That change would be great though.

good idea on ironheart but I still think ironheart needs a way to pause her debuffs other than sp1

either 4th light pauses for 8 seconds and has 10 second cooldown

or heavy refreshing the DOT and having a 24 second cooldown

the armor percentage change would make her numbers better

agreed on Dust they probably won't touch her

Hmmmm that's actually not a bad idea I suppose, perhaps they could change the fourth light attack to a pause instead of guaranteed armor and in exchange increase the chance to gain armor on all light attacks.
The cooldown should be 20 secs though, if you make it 10 then you would eliminate the need for sp1 pause almost completely and make her an absolute nuke. While I do think the tech class needs a Sunspot level nuke, I doubt Kabam would let that one slide lol.

Ghost is the closest thing to a tech nuke we have so far. But we need more

Even she isn't that good nowadays, you don't even see her in decks anymore unless it's a meta with dot debuffs cause as it stands she can't really nuke most of the meta defenders. Ironheart 100% should be a CGR level nuke but they're scared for some weird reason.

This year's champs have been really weird. On one hand we have meta defenders such as Serpent, Dust and Bullseye while the attackers all seem to be either mid or not meeting players expectations. Prowler's been the only exceptional BGs attacker we've had this year. Ironheart as well. The rest are just OK at best

ItsClobberinTime

EdisonLaw said:

ItsClobberinTime said:

EdisonLaw said:

ItsClobberinTime said:

Wolf911 said:

ItsClobberinTime said:

Ironheart: r2 Ironheart owner here, I don't think the pausing needs to be changed. What needs to be changed imo is the chance to gain armor buffs on light attacks, a tweak on that percentage would do a lot for her damage while also keeping her playstyle exactly the same. Pausing or refreshing debuffs would change her playstyle a bit and I think that's really not necessary when they can just tweak the percentage for the armors. It's not like she needs a huge bump in damage anyways, she needs one but not a massive one. If anything, they could maybe let her pause the debuffs with heavy with a long cooldown + higher chance to gain armor on light attacks but that's it.

Dust: 100% agree with that change although it's very unlikely it'll happen cause she is a relatively strong defender. That change would be great though.

good idea on ironheart but I still think ironheart needs a way to pause her debuffs other than sp1

either 4th light pauses for 8 seconds and has 10 second cooldown

or heavy refreshing the DOT and having a 24 second cooldown

the armor percentage change would make her numbers better

agreed on Dust they probably won't touch her

Hmmmm that's actually not a bad idea I suppose, perhaps they could change the fourth light attack to a pause instead of guaranteed armor and in exchange increase the chance to gain armor on all light attacks.
The cooldown should be 20 secs though, if you make it 10 then you would eliminate the need for sp1 pause almost completely and make her an absolute nuke. While I do think the tech class needs a Sunspot level nuke, I doubt Kabam would let that one slide lol.

Ghost is the closest thing to a tech nuke we have so far. But we need more

Even she isn't that good nowadays, you don't even see her in decks anymore unless it's a meta with dot debuffs cause as it stands she can't really nuke most of the meta defenders. Ironheart 100% should be a CGR level nuke but they're scared for some weird reason.

This year's champs have been really weird. On one hand we have meta defenders such as Serpent, Dust and Bullseye while the attackers all seem to be either mid or not meeting players expectations. Prowler's been the only exceptional BGs attacker we've had this year. Ironheart as well. The rest are just OK at best

Ironheart is decent but considering she's trash on defense she should be more powerful on attack so I'm really hoping she does get buffed. I'll probably use her even if she doesn't cause she counters a lot of stuff people don't know about yet but I really do hope she gets buffed.
The rest of the champs other than Prowler and the strong defenders like Serpent absolutely need either faster ramp or more damage so🤞

Wolf911

ItsClobberinTime said:

Wolf911 said:

ItsClobberinTime said:

Ironheart: r2 Ironheart owner here, I don't think the pausing needs to be changed. What needs to be changed imo is the chance to gain armor buffs on light attacks, a tweak on that percentage would do a lot for her damage while also keeping her playstyle exactly the same. Pausing or refreshing debuffs would change her playstyle a bit and I think that's really not necessary when they can just tweak the percentage for the armors. It's not like she needs a huge bump in damage anyways, she needs one but not a massive one. If anything, they could maybe let her pause the debuffs with heavy with a long cooldown + higher chance to gain armor on light attacks but that's it.

Dust: 100% agree with that change although it's very unlikely it'll happen cause she is a relatively strong defender. That change would be great though.

good idea on ironheart but I still think ironheart needs a way to pause her debuffs other than sp1

either 4th light pauses for 8 seconds and has 10 second cooldown

or heavy refreshing the DOT and having a 24 second cooldown

the armor percentage change would make her numbers better

agreed on Dust they probably won't touch her

Hmmmm that's actually not a bad idea I suppose, perhaps they could change the fourth light attack to a pause instead of guaranteed armor and in exchange increase the chance to gain armor on all light attacks.
The cooldown should be 20 secs though, if you make it 10 then you would eliminate the need for sp1 pause almost completely and make her an absolute nuke. While I do think the tech class needs a Sunspot level nuke, I doubt Kabam would let that one slide lol.

IDK how my reply isn't posted yet but here it is again

I didn't say the 10 second cooldown to start immediately after the pause was inflicted but after the 8 second pause from 4th light ends

that way we can alternate between sp1 pause and 4th light pause and keep increasing the debuffs while them being paused

( we can start with MLM 2-3 times then MLLLL for 4th light pause which will get us 1.5 bars of power and we can bait special from opponent while doing this the 4th light pause will expire and go on cooldown then we can hit em with our sp1 for pause and do MLM combos to build to another sp1 or a sp2 depending on what we want

if we want to go to sp2 we can use another 4th light for pause get more debuffs, armor ups and power with MLM combos throw sp2 bait another special from opponent and then sp1 for pause)

this will make her flow better and she can nuke many defenders

that's just me but I have a feeling that they won't change her

but I do hope for another way to pause her debuffs and increased chance to gain armor ups

Emilia90

ItsClobberinTime said:

EdisonLaw said:

ItsClobberinTime said:

EdisonLaw said:

ItsClobberinTime said:

Wolf911 said:

ItsClobberinTime said:

Ironheart: r2 Ironheart owner here, I don't think the pausing needs to be changed. What needs to be changed imo is the chance to gain armor buffs on light attacks, a tweak on that percentage would do a lot for her damage while also keeping her playstyle exactly the same. Pausing or refreshing debuffs would change her playstyle a bit and I think that's really not necessary when they can just tweak the percentage for the armors. It's not like she needs a huge bump in damage anyways, she needs one but not a massive one. If anything, they could maybe let her pause the debuffs with heavy with a long cooldown + higher chance to gain armor on light attacks but that's it.

Dust: 100% agree with that change although it's very unlikely it'll happen cause she is a relatively strong defender. That change would be great though.

good idea on ironheart but I still think ironheart needs a way to pause her debuffs other than sp1

either 4th light pauses for 8 seconds and has 10 second cooldown

or heavy refreshing the DOT and having a 24 second cooldown

the armor percentage change would make her numbers better

agreed on Dust they probably won't touch her

Hmmmm that's actually not a bad idea I suppose, perhaps they could change the fourth light attack to a pause instead of guaranteed armor and in exchange increase the chance to gain armor on all light attacks.
The cooldown should be 20 secs though, if you make it 10 then you would eliminate the need for sp1 pause almost completely and make her an absolute nuke. While I do think the tech class needs a Sunspot level nuke, I doubt Kabam would let that one slide lol.

Ghost is the closest thing to a tech nuke we have so far. But we need more

Even she isn't that good nowadays, you don't even see her in decks anymore unless it's a meta with dot debuffs cause as it stands she can't really nuke most of the meta defenders. Ironheart 100% should be a CGR level nuke but they're scared for some weird reason.

This year's champs have been really weird. On one hand we have meta defenders such as Serpent, Dust and Bullseye while the attackers all seem to be either mid or not meeting players expectations. Prowler's been the only exceptional BGs attacker we've had this year. Ironheart as well. The rest are just OK at best

Ironheart is decent but considering she's trash on defense she should be more powerful on attack so I'm really hoping she does get buffed. I'll probably use her even if she doesn't cause she counters a lot of stuff people don't know about yet but I really do hope she gets buffed.
The rest of the champs other than Prowler and the strong defenders like Serpent absolutely need either faster ramp or more damage so🤞

I’m actually gonna throw White Tiger out there as a great attacker. She hits hard, counters serpent fairly well since he’s not immune to power steal, and I’ve seen her do matchups super fast and with a lot of health. She could definitely be the best attacker this year and Trappy posted a great vid someone did on her in battlegrounds

Wolf911

any idea why we don't have the balance update announcement yet?

Fryday

Wolf911 said:

any idea why we don't have the balance update announcement yet?

Most likely the same reason why we haven't hear any official response back from a lot of on going bugs right now, like Re-Parry, SP3 Black Screen and missing 22hrs Event.

Netmarble cut down the staffs and now everyone is over work.