Balance Update - Dust & Ironheart [Discussion]

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  • ErcarretErcarret Member Posts: 2,948 ★★★★★
    The only thing that really annoys me about Dust is that she feels like a champ that would really benefit from one of those "if the opponent purifies a stun debuff, inflict a passive one instead" mechanics that a few of the other purify-punishing mutants have. She's meant to excel against shrugging champions, but those are the ones she has the hardest time starting her Sandstorm against. That has always confused me slightly.

    She has a few abilities that seem like they'd make up for her lack of such a mechanic, but they all come into effect once her Sandstorm is up (such as a passive stun on SP2 or a steadfast buff when fighting Skill defenders).

    She doesn't have to actually hit the opponent with her heavy attack to whirr up her Sandstorm so you could just whiff a heavy attack, but I'd rather have something that gives her an easy opening. It doesn't have to remain in her kit after that, I just find it a bit odd that it isn't there until she's gotten her Sandstorm up and running.
  • jcphillips7jcphillips7 Member Posts: 1,456 ★★★★
    Ercarret said:

    The only thing that really annoys me about Dust is that she feels like a champ that would really benefit from one of those "if the opponent purifies a stun debuff, inflict a passive one instead" mechanics that a few of the other purify-punishing mutants have. She's meant to excel against shrugging champions, but those are the ones she has the hardest time starting her Sandstorm against. That has always confused me slightly.

    She has a few abilities that seem like they'd make up for her lack of such a mechanic, but they all come into effect once her Sandstorm is up (such as a passive stun on SP2 or a steadfast buff when fighting Skill defenders).

    She doesn't have to actually hit the opponent with her heavy attack to whirr up her Sandstorm so you could just whiff a heavy attack, but I'd rather have something that gives her an easy opening. It doesn't have to remain in her kit after that, I just find it a bit odd that it isn't there until she's gotten her Sandstorm up and running.

    It might be a little too strong, but having a combo into heavy stun ala Chavez and Gladiator would really do a lot for her. Build up your Sands with MLLLL and MLM combos, then when ready just end a combo with the heavy stun to start Sandstorm and start getting your specials off. Make this only doable while not in Sandstorm.
  • ErcarretErcarret Member Posts: 2,948 ★★★★★
    Yeah, that would be great. As you said, it might be too big of a change for her but I would at least want something to make it a little easier to get in a heavy. If she doesn't get a passive stun of some sort, then maybe any heavy that triggers Sandstorm is also unstoppable? I dunno, just something.
  • altavistaaltavista Member Posts: 1,489 ★★★★

    Ironheart is decent but considering she's trash on defense she should be more powerful on attack so I'm really hoping she does get buffed. I'll probably use her even if she doesn't cause she counters a lot of stuff people don't know about yet but I really do hope she gets buffed.

    I was looking at Shuri's buff annoucement (https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/328873/attuma-and-shuri-balance-update#latest), and I feel like Kabam's statement "While Shuri’s Damage is quite potent once her full ramp gets going, we’re seeing low damage output across most of our game modes, notably our more dynamic, more complex pieces of content" also applies to Ironheart.

    I realize I am not the best player, but it does seem like Ironheart's debuffs drop off too fast for me in more complicated matchups. With how common it is to encounter a defender with evade or unstoppable or miss, it does seem like a bunch of obstacles that make it more stressful to play her. Far too often I am just waiting out the Defender's AI and forced to just using the SP1 for the pause as opposed to being able to use the SP2.

    Whether they buff her damage, or give Ironheart another way to pause/refresh debuffs (or, to lean even further into the Scorpion design, give her a Torment debuff to apply), I do think she needs to be improved.
  • Newman0067Newman0067 Member Posts: 141 ★★
    I currently have 4 r3 champions. Bishop, cat, DKG and a duped iron heart. I can confidently say that Iron hearts overall damage is a very noticeable step down from the other 3. If they wanted to go down the route of making her debuffs the main source of her damage (to be honest that's where 80% of her damage is coming from anyway) I think it would be a very smart move. Adjust the timer or add a new way to pause them, and double, or even triple the potency of the dot debuffs and you could be on to a big winner of a champion. Even the Sentinel relic right now is just not enough to save her damage wise, there's needs to be, more consistent way to keep those debuffs flowing.
  • EdisonLawEdisonLaw Member Posts: 8,034 ★★★★★
    edited July 23
    Ercarret said:

    The only thing that really annoys me about Dust is that she feels like a champ that would really benefit from one of those "if the opponent purifies a stun debuff, inflict a passive one instead" mechanics that a few of the other purify-punishing mutants have. She's meant to excel against shrugging champions, but those are the ones she has the hardest time starting her Sandstorm against. That has always confused me slightly.

    She has a few abilities that seem like they'd make up for her lack of such a mechanic, but they all come into effect once her Sandstorm is up (such as a passive stun on SP2 or a steadfast buff when fighting Skill defenders).

    She doesn't have to actually hit the opponent with her heavy attack to whirr up her Sandstorm so you could just whiff a heavy attack, but I'd rather have something that gives her an easy opening. It doesn't have to remain in her kit after that, I just find it a bit odd that it isn't there until she's gotten her Sandstorm up and running.

    Agree I wish she was like Onslaught or other mutants where if they purify the stun, it turns into a passive. Other mutants have this issue as well like Colossus (who has a parry-heavy playstyle)
  • NONYABIZZNONYABIZZ Member Posts: 650 ★★★
    Emilia90 said:

    I’m really praying that Ironheart gets that change. Dust’s would be great too and she’d be a fast attacker. I’m kinda afraid that Kabam isn’t going to touch like any champs this year other than Sable and maybe Arcade and I hope they prove me wrong. So many champs this year just need one change and they’ll be amazing

    Does that change happen to be something related to their damage?? Because they're mostly pretty bad offensively.
    I think the problem with this year's champs (offensively at least) was the creation of 7* r3. They have all been designed to have decent damage at 7* r3 that every other rank is very underwhelming. That's what's been seen in the deep dives. Kabam has put 7* r3 as the standard for the damage output of 2024 champs and I'm afraid it will only continue.
  • WednesdayLengthWednesdayLength Member Posts: 1,616 ★★★★
    EdisonLaw said:

    Dust doesn't need any changes but less but more potent prowess would be nice

    Ironheart really needs an alternative refresh and she'd be much better, maybe a little bump in the numbers but refresh would still go a long way

    Given that all the utility comes from stacking large numbers of debuffs, Ironheart needs longer debuffs; which will increase the bonus damage she can access on her SP2, as well.

    According to her spotlight "One of her Goals was to be a stronger counter to some of the more powerful Meta Mutants in the game currently", and yet she's less than ideal against mutants like Onslaught as she's Metal, meaning she can't get rid of Neuroshocks. Giving her immunity to Neuroshocks seems a bit over-specific; but some Energy Resistance would do a lot for her...

    Suggestions:
    Possibly a small instead in debuff Potency; and a change in her Sig:

    Old Sig
    • While she has any active Armor Up effect, Ironheart gains a Bulwark Passive increasing Block Proficiency by +25%.
    • Repulsor Debuffs gain 22.19% increased potency.
    • + The regeneration part
    New Sig
    • For each active Armor Up effect, Ironheart gains an Energy Resistance Passive increasing Energy Resistance by +20%.
    • Repulsor Debuffs gain 35% increased duration.
    • + The regeneration part
    I would suggest to keep the bulwarks plus a way to refresh incinerates/ruptures
    She doesn't need to refresh her debuffs, she would be way too strong if she could just refresh everything
  • WednesdayLengthWednesdayLength Member Posts: 1,616 ★★★★

    Dust is fine if you compare her to someone like Sandman who also has 3 immunities but not even close to her damage. She’s great on defense aswell, but to be honest a damage buff would really benefit her since Sandman is trash.

    Sandman had quicker access to more damage than dust, he's fine
  • WednesdayLengthWednesdayLength Member Posts: 1,616 ★★★★
    altavista said:

    Really like both champions and think people are underrating both.

    I wouldn’t say no to increased damage, but of course a change could result in an overall negative change (like the Sandman “buff”).

    I think Dust has less of a need of a tune up. Only thing might be a way to avoid giving Skill defenders (eg Killmonger or cleanse champions) an advantage.

    With Ironheart, maybe removing the SP3 reduced potency on the indefinite debuff would be easiest. That way they don’t need to mess with other pausing mechanics or the debuffs themselves, since the SP3 will ensure a persistent level of damage even if debuffs drop off in a long match.

    Sandman is objectively better after his buff what are you talking about
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