Here are my experience with my recent second account, which i started about 5 weeks ago for my son.
My main account are about 360k pi rating, and i have been playing more than 2 years in MCOC.
My son completed the Guardian event beginner and normal in 2 weeks, he got a 3* BPCW in 1st day, and 20 3* in about 3 weeks (mostly from shards and PHC). As he do not have time to play arena, he did missed out the chance to capitalise the beginner arena low cut-off. I did won a 3* Yondu for him with less than 40 streaks.
He got his 1st 4 * last week, from shards. Which is DD Netflix....... sucks, but he is quite happy, he knew how difficult to get a 4* as most of he opened most of my crystals.
And i just help him to fully explore ACT 3 with 1 R2 4* DD, 2 R4 3* Yondu and BPCW, and a R3 3* Hood.
Its too easy for veteran/any skillful to finish up to Act 3 with even 3* and bad mastery and roster.........
We knew Act 4 is going to be very difficult compared to ACT 3, but the beginner didn't know that.
All in all, i appreciate the shards system, its easier to get 4* compare to 2 years ago, which took me more than 5 months to get my 1st 4*, which is UC from an Alliance 7 days arena event. and my 2nd 4* was Cap Marvel from PHC, which is more than 8 months since i played......
And I remembered that i only have 4 3* when i beat Kang in ACT 2...... And less than 10 3* when i beat Thanos in ACT 3.
My son pulled a 4* Hyperion from the 4 star crystal we earned from completing Act 3 yesterday.......
The problem for new account is lack of iso and gold, luckily Kabam started the gold realm yesterday, so solve one problem.
Here are my experience with my recent second account, which i started about 5 weeks ago for my son.
My main account are about 360k pi rating, and i have been playing more than 2 years in MCOC.
My son completed the Guardian event beginner and normal in 2 weeks, he got a 3* BPCW in 1st day, and 20 3* in about 3 weeks (mostly from shards and PHC). As he do not have time to play arena, he did missed out the chance to capitalise the beginner arena low cut-off. I did won a 3* Yondu for him with less than 40 streaks.
He got his 1st 4 * last week, from shards. Which is DD Netflix....... sucks, but he is quite happy, he knew how difficult to get a 4* as most of he opened most of my crystals.
And i just help him to fully explore ACT 3 with 1 R2 4* DD, 2 R4 3* Yondu and BPCW, and a R3 3* Hood.
Its too easy for veteran/any skillful to finish up to Act 3 with even 3* and bad mastery and roster.........
We knew Act 4 is going to be very difficult compared to ACT 3, but the beginner didn't know that.
All in all, i appreciate the shards system, its easier to get 4* compare to 2 years ago, which took me more than 5 months to get my 1st 4*, which is UC from an Alliance 7 days arena event. and my 2nd 4* was Cap Marvel from PHC, which is more than 8 months since i played......
And I remembered that i only have 4 3* when i beat Kang in ACT 2...... And less than 10 3* when i beat Thanos in ACT 3.
My son pulled a 4* Hyperion from the 4 star crystal we earned from completing Act 3 yesterday.......
The problem for new account is lack of iso and gold, luckily Kabam started the gold realm yesterday, so solve one problem.
I'm not saying 3 and 4 stars are bad because they are high rated. That's not my point at all. My point is, when 3 and 4 stars are acquired at a time that you're being forced to fight 1 stars, it is inevitable that you won't have fun. It's repetitive, and it isn't challenging. Today I got a 3 star Colossus and Dr. VooDoo from the two crystals I bought with the 200 units in the Beginner Login Calendar. That's stupid. Within a week, I've acquired a 4 star Hulk, and a 3 star of Deadpool X-Force, Rogue, Juggernaut, Colossus, and Dr. VooDoo.
I think the problem is that the gods are gone. I started playing and all I wanted was the elusive SW, DS, starlord,or Thor. That kept me playing. New players now don't have as many "unicorns" to chase
I think the problem is that the gods are gone. I started playing and all I wanted was the elusive SW, DS, starlord,or Thor. That kept me playing. New players now don't have as many "unicorns" to chase
I really don't think that there should be "unicorns" to track down. If characters are going to be better than others, we would get stuck with Hulk and Juggernaut and all the big guys wrecking 50% of the players, and then SW and Magneto just controlling everyone and destroying them. Everyone should be somewhat level in terms of skill, otherwise we end up with no one having Luke Cage and EVERYONE having Star Lord, which just isn't very fun.
I think the problem is that the gods are gone. I started playing and all I wanted was the elusive SW, DS, starlord,or Thor. That kept me playing. New players now don't have as many "unicorns" to chase
I really don't think that there should be "unicorns" to track down. If characters are going to be better than others, we would get stuck with Hulk and Juggernaut and all the big guys wrecking 50% of the players, and then SW and Magneto just controlling everyone and destroying them. Everyone should be somewhat level in terms of skill, otherwise we end up with no one having Luke Cage and EVERYONE having Star Lord, which just isn't very fun.
I'm a new player so i can give a little bit of my experience throughout my first month of playing this game, in this month i beat 100% Act 1, Run through Act 2, and currently i'm completing 100% act 3, however i also completed 100% beginner, Normal, And Heroic in the GOTG Vol 0 event, i currently have 10 4 stars, and 25 3 stars, and i have not felt bored, more like motivated for my progression, i have seen some posts of yours CrusherOfDreams and it feels like you just like to **** about people getting better champs than you, not wanting to be mean or something but that is how it feels, coming from someone who played fighting games competitively and don't like to grind, this game has been a blast for me.
i think the joy of the game itself is the progression, i was excited to get better rewards and clear more, the only frustrating thing in the game for me has been the Energy Limit, it is frustrating to have to wait 4 hours to get my energy refilled and continue my quests, the lack of ISO and Gold to Rank up my champions, but that has not made me quit the game, hell, not even the amount of bugs of the last month did, i have the hunger to get even more good stuff to grind even more arena, and to progress as quick as i can before i get to the veteran bracket.
i think that a better perspective of your point would be, new players quit because they do not have clear goals, we tell them "oh man! 4 stars are so good! they are the best in the game" and we do the same for 5 stars, so they get a 4 star and boom i accomplished my goal right? now what? there are many guides and stuff that lead you to have goals, i don't want to assume everyone is like me, so not everyone is going to know about Realm of Legends and Laberinth and that all End Game content, that is my goal, but the game didn't tell me or at least i don't remember it doing it "hey this is the end game content, you have to be really good and have good stuff to accomplish this challanging game!"
i had to look up what was next what should i be doing? what should i be excited for?.
Because once you know all of that you have motivation to get stronger, to grind and all that sort of stuff, and how you do it? by playing the game, you grind the arenas, you complete the quests, you rank up your champions, i think that we can compare 2 scenarios, pick a new player and show him some videos about the cool stuff of the game, and what could they do to accomplish that, give them goals, motivation, and pick another one who doesn't know anything about the game, i seriously think that Kabam might need to emphasize the importance of progression and what comes next, the excitement of "oh one day i will be able to complete realm of legends!" and that kind of stuff.
Take it with a grain of salt, it is just my experience and not everybody is the same, not everyone will like it, but i think the lack of guidance and a clear set of goals are at fault if the game is not enjoyable at first, i once thought this game was nothing but a clicker masher, but oh boy after doing a lot of research i fell in love with the game, and i'm very excited for my second month playing.
I'm a new player so i can give a little bit of my experience throughout my first month of playing this game, in this month i beat 100% Act 1, Run through Act 2, and currently i'm completing 100% act 3, however i also completed 100% beginner, Normal, And Heroic in the GOTG Vol 0 event, i currently have 10 4 stars, and 25 3 stars, and i have not felt bored, more like motivated for my progression, i have seen some posts of yours CrusherOfDreams and it feels like you just like to **** about people getting better champs than you, not wanting to be mean or something but that is how it feels, coming from someone who played fighting games competitively and don't like to grind, this game has been a blast for me.
i think the joy of the game itself is the progression, i was excited to get better rewards and clear more, the only frustrating thing in the game for me has been the Energy Limit, it is frustrating to have to wait 4 hours to get my energy refilled and continue my quests, the lack of ISO and Gold to Rank up my champions, but that has not made me quit the game, hell, not even the amount of bugs of the last month did, i have the hunger to get even more good stuff to grind even more arena, and to progress as quick as i can before i get to the veteran bracket.
i think that a better perspective of your point would be, new players quit because they do not have clear goals, we tell them "oh man! 4 stars are so good! they are the best in the game" and we do the same for 5 stars, so they get a 4 star and boom i accomplished my goal right? now what? there are many guides and stuff that lead you to have goals, i don't want to assume everyone is like me, so not everyone is going to know about Realm of Legends and Laberinth and that all End Game content, that is my goal, but the game didn't tell me or at least i don't remember it doing it "hey this is the end game content, you have to be really good and have good stuff to accomplish this challanging game!"
i had to look up what was next what should i be doing? what should i be excited for?.
Because once you know all of that you have motivation to get stronger, to grind and all that sort of stuff, and how you do it? by playing the game, you grind the arenas, you complete the quests, you rank up your champions, i think that we can compare 2 scenarios, pick a new player and show him some videos about the cool stuff of the game, and what could they do to accomplish that, give them goals, motivation, and pick another one who doesn't know anything about the game, i seriously think that Kabam might need to emphasize the importance of progression and what comes next, the excitement of "oh one day i will be able to complete realm of legends!" and that kind of stuff.
Take it with a grain of salt, it is just my experience and not everybody is the same, not everyone will like it, but i think the lack of guidance and a clear set of goals are at fault if the game is not enjoyable at first, i once thought this game was nothing but a clicker masher, but oh boy after doing a lot of research i fell in love with the game, and i'm very excited for my second month playing.
Three things; one is a question, the other two aren't:
1 - When did you get your first 4 star in relation to where you were in the Story Quests? Was it early Act 1? Mid-Act 2? Please let me know.
2 - I'm saying that it can be boring to have to go in such a strange pattern in the game. It's like going up stairs, and each star is a stair. You go up the first stair and second stair quickly, then jump to the third or fourth, and then in up and down the stairs, doing all the in-between stuff for a long time, before you can get to that last step. People get to that fourth step so quickly, and it's very disproportional to how long it takes to reach step 5. People get to step 4, and have two thoughts:
1) Why the heck is it taking so long to get to step 5?
2) I'm already at step 4, so why do I have to run around on steps 2 and 3 for so long before I get to step 5?
Then they sometimes will just say "Screw it!" and quit.
3 - I'm not just &$+%#-ing about how people can get 4 stars so easily now. Yeah, it's a little frustrating that the once best item is so common now after most of us had to grind so hard for it, but I'm still benefitting with this second account, so that's not the main point. My point is that the second account is boring. I'll use an example I used earlier: If you forced the MMXIV alliance to play Maps 1 and 2 on AQ, it would be boring. They have vastly superior champs, so they would just steamroll everyone. Eventually, they'd realize that the resources they already have are much better than what they earn from the measly Map 1/2 AQ rewards, so they'd just stop playing. They already have great things, so why bother getting bad things, right? Many players are quitting because they have great things, and see no point to playing, since they're just earning bad things as rewards. They know they aren't the best, but they don't see how they'll get better if they're just earning garbage when they already have high caliber stuff.
I'm a new player so i can give a little bit of my experience throughout my first month of playing this game, in this month i beat 100% Act 1, Run through Act 2, and currently i'm completing 100% act 3, however i also completed 100% beginner, Normal, And Heroic in the GOTG Vol 0 event, i currently have 10 4 stars, and 25 3 stars, and i have not felt bored, more like motivated for my progression, i have seen some posts of yours CrusherOfDreams and it feels like you just like to **** about people getting better champs than you, not wanting to be mean or something but that is how it feels, coming from someone who played fighting games competitively and don't like to grind, this game has been a blast for me.
i think the joy of the game itself is the progression, i was excited to get better rewards and clear more, the only frustrating thing in the game for me has been the Energy Limit, it is frustrating to have to wait 4 hours to get my energy refilled and continue my quests, the lack of ISO and Gold to Rank up my champions, but that has not made me quit the game, hell, not even the amount of bugs of the last month did, i have the hunger to get even more good stuff to grind even more arena, and to progress as quick as i can before i get to the veteran bracket.
i think that a better perspective of your point would be, new players quit because they do not have clear goals, we tell them "oh man! 4 stars are so good! they are the best in the game" and we do the same for 5 stars, so they get a 4 star and boom i accomplished my goal right? now what? there are many guides and stuff that lead you to have goals, i don't want to assume everyone is like me, so not everyone is going to know about Realm of Legends and Laberinth and that all End Game content, that is my goal, but the game didn't tell me or at least i don't remember it doing it "hey this is the end game content, you have to be really good and have good stuff to accomplish this challanging game!"
i had to look up what was next what should i be doing? what should i be excited for?.
Because once you know all of that you have motivation to get stronger, to grind and all that sort of stuff, and how you do it? by playing the game, you grind the arenas, you complete the quests, you rank up your champions, i think that we can compare 2 scenarios, pick a new player and show him some videos about the cool stuff of the game, and what could they do to accomplish that, give them goals, motivation, and pick another one who doesn't know anything about the game, i seriously think that Kabam might need to emphasize the importance of progression and what comes next, the excitement of "oh one day i will be able to complete realm of legends!" and that kind of stuff.
Take it with a grain of salt, it is just my experience and not everybody is the same, not everyone will like it, but i think the lack of guidance and a clear set of goals are at fault if the game is not enjoyable at first, i once thought this game was nothing but a clicker masher, but oh boy after doing a lot of research i fell in love with the game, and i'm very excited for my second month playing.
Three things; one is a question, the other two aren't:
1 - When did you get your first 4 star in relation to where you were in the Story Quests? Was it early Act 1? Mid-Act 2? Please let me know.
2 - I'm saying that it can be boring to have to go in such a strange pattern in the game. It's like going up stairs, and each star is a stair. You go up the first stair and second stair quickly, then jump to the third or fourth, and then in up and down the stairs, doing all the in-between stuff for a long time, before you can get to that last step. People get to that fourth step so quickly, and it's very disproportional to how long it takes to reach step 5. People get to step 4, and have two thoughts:
1) Why the heck is it taking so long to get to step 5?
2) I'm already at step 4, so why do I have to run around on steps 2 and 3 for so long before I get to step 5?
Then they sometimes will just say "Screw it!" and quit.
3 - I'm not just &$+%#-ing about how people can get 4 stars so easily now. Yeah, it's a little frustrating that the once best item is so common now after most of us had to grind so hard for it, but I'm still benefitting with this second account, so that's not the main point. My point is that the second account is boring. I'll use an example I used earlier: If you forced the MMXIV alliance to play Maps 1 and 2 on AQ, it would be boring. They have vastly superior champs, so they would just steamroll everyone. Eventually, they'd realize that the resources they already have are much better than what they earn from the measly Map 1/2 AQ rewards, so they'd just stop playing. They already have great things, so why bother getting bad things, right? Many players are quitting because they have great things, and see no point to playing, since they're just earning bad things as rewards. They know they aren't the best, but they don't see how they'll get better if they're just earning garbage when they already have high caliber stuff.
Of course if you put it that way it is going to sound boring, its is like if you put a UMVC3 Pro player to complete the Arcade mode on Easy mode, it is unfair to compare it that way, you are not putting yourself in the new player shoes, but ok, let's add something to your example, let's put that in the rewards screen you get a pop up that you unlocked the next tier in the AQ Maps, and boom you see the possible rewards, oh! 5 tier 4 fully class catalysts, would that motivate you to play the AQ map 2 so you can go on with the next ones to get those good rewards? also because they have a 4* doesn't mean the have the best in the game, there are still tiers above them, but thing is they might not know, that may be the reason why they quit, then we go full circle on my point, they quit because they do not have clear goals, if they were more aware of oh, there is still a tier above it, 5 stars, and they are hard to get, and they feel so rewarding, they need to be aware of this in order to have goals and motivation, let's be honest it doesn't take more than a week to go through act 1-3, and lets be honest again, no beginner newcomer is going to be able to get through Thanos on act 3 easily with their "high tier 4*" also opening PHCs is adicting so they have that going on there.
No, it's boring. I can see that as well as a new player.
With all due respect, I don't think you can. Once you've been playing for a long time, you can't see the game as a new player sees it, because you know everything already. If I knew then what I know now, the game would have been boring *as it was* originally. So there's nothing about how the game was that I think was superior to how it is now in terms of being able to engage an experienced player. When you're playing the game for the first time, the exciting thing isn't the fight, its what happens when you win. We know that now. They don't know that yet.
No, it's boring. I can see that as well as a new player.
With all due respect, I don't think you can. Once you've been playing for a long time, you can't see the game as a new player sees it, because you know everything already. If I knew then what I know now, the game would have been boring *as it was* originally. So there's nothing about how the game was that I think was superior to how it is now in terms of being able to engage an experienced player. When you're playing the game for the first time, the exciting thing isn't the fight, its what happens when you win. We know that now. They don't know that yet.
What happens when you win? You get resources. If those resources are worse than what you have for the first three months of the games you'll be bored. Them not knowing what lies ahead proves my point more. If they don't know for sure if things will ever be challenging, then they don't know if they have any reason to get through the boring stuff.
I never claimed to know exactly how new players feel. I don't, I know that. There are certain aspects that you can't relive. I know that I want to go for Parry now. I know which characters are good. I don't have that new-exciting-game rush of exhilaration anymore, so yes, things will be a little more boring. I expected the initial boredom to replace the first-time rush of excitement. But it's easy to see how some things are boring. Doing fights where the enemy has no hope of winning unless you literally stop fighting is boring. On my original account, I explored Act 1 and completed Act 2. I wanted that 4 star crystal, so I explored Act 3 before I finished exploring Act 2. Now that I had a decent roster of 4 stars, exploring that Act was extremely boring. Doing easy fights with good characters is boring, and it always will be. We need to be challenged to have fun. That initial rush doesn't last until we get a 5 star. They load new guys up with good stuff to take on the bad stuff. It gets old once the rush wears off.
I'm a new player so i can give a little bit of my experience throughout my first month of playing this game, in this month i beat 100% Act 1, Run through Act 2, and currently i'm completing 100% act 3, however i also completed 100% beginner, Normal, And Heroic in the GOTG Vol 0 event, i currently have 10 4 stars, and 25 3 stars, and i have not felt bored, more like motivated for my progression, i have seen some posts of yours CrusherOfDreams and it feels like you just like to **** about people getting better champs than you, not wanting to be mean or something but that is how it feels, coming from someone who played fighting games competitively and don't like to grind, this game has been a blast for me.
i think the joy of the game itself is the progression, i was excited to get better rewards and clear more, the only frustrating thing in the game for me has been the Energy Limit, it is frustrating to have to wait 4 hours to get my energy refilled and continue my quests, the lack of ISO and Gold to Rank up my champions, but that has not made me quit the game, hell, not even the amount of bugs of the last month did, i have the hunger to get even more good stuff to grind even more arena, and to progress as quick as i can before i get to the veteran bracket.
i think that a better perspective of your point would be, new players quit because they do not have clear goals, we tell them "oh man! 4 stars are so good! they are the best in the game" and we do the same for 5 stars, so they get a 4 star and boom i accomplished my goal right? now what? there are many guides and stuff that lead you to have goals, i don't want to assume everyone is like me, so not everyone is going to know about Realm of Legends and Laberinth and that all End Game content, that is my goal, but the game didn't tell me or at least i don't remember it doing it "hey this is the end game content, you have to be really good and have good stuff to accomplish this challanging game!"
i had to look up what was next what should i be doing? what should i be excited for?.
Because once you know all of that you have motivation to get stronger, to grind and all that sort of stuff, and how you do it? by playing the game, you grind the arenas, you complete the quests, you rank up your champions, i think that we can compare 2 scenarios, pick a new player and show him some videos about the cool stuff of the game, and what could they do to accomplish that, give them goals, motivation, and pick another one who doesn't know anything about the game, i seriously think that Kabam might need to emphasize the importance of progression and what comes next, the excitement of "oh one day i will be able to complete realm of legends!" and that kind of stuff.
Take it with a grain of salt, it is just my experience and not everybody is the same, not everyone will like it, but i think the lack of guidance and a clear set of goals are at fault if the game is not enjoyable at first, i once thought this game was nothing but a clicker masher, but oh boy after doing a lot of research i fell in love with the game, and i'm very excited for my second month playing.
Three things; one is a question, the other two aren't:
1 - When did you get your first 4 star in relation to where you were in the Story Quests? Was it early Act 1? Mid-Act 2? Please let me know.
2 - I'm saying that it can be boring to have to go in such a strange pattern in the game. It's like going up stairs, and each star is a stair. You go up the first stair and second stair quickly, then jump to the third or fourth, and then in up and down the stairs, doing all the in-between stuff for a long time, before you can get to that last step. People get to that fourth step so quickly, and it's very disproportional to how long it takes to reach step 5. People get to step 4, and have two thoughts:
1) Why the heck is it taking so long to get to step 5?
2) I'm already at step 4, so why do I have to run around on steps 2 and 3 for so long before I get to step 5?
Then they sometimes will just say "Screw it!" and quit.
3 - I'm not just &$+%#-ing about how people can get 4 stars so easily now. Yeah, it's a little frustrating that the once best item is so common now after most of us had to grind so hard for it, but I'm still benefitting with this second account, so that's not the main point. My point is that the second account is boring. I'll use an example I used earlier: If you forced the MMXIV alliance to play Maps 1 and 2 on AQ, it would be boring. They have vastly superior champs, so they would just steamroll everyone. Eventually, they'd realize that the resources they already have are much better than what they earn from the measly Map 1/2 AQ rewards, so they'd just stop playing. They already have great things, so why bother getting bad things, right? Many players are quitting because they have great things, and see no point to playing, since they're just earning bad things as rewards. They know they aren't the best, but they don't see how they'll get better if they're just earning garbage when they already have high caliber stuff.
Of course if you put it that way it is going to sound boring, its is like if you put a UMVC3 Pro player to complete the Arcade mode on Easy mode, it is unfair to compare it that way, you are not putting yourself in the new player shoes, but ok, let's add something to your example, let's put that in the rewards screen you get a pop up that you unlocked the next tier in the AQ Maps, and boom you see the possible rewards, oh! 5 tier 4 fully class catalysts, would that motivate you to play the AQ map 2 so you can go on with the next ones to get those good rewards? also because they have a 4* doesn't mean the have the best in the game, there are still tiers above them, but thing is they might not know, that may be the reason why they quit, then we go full circle on my point, they quit because they do not have clear goals, if they were more aware of oh, there is still a tier above it, 5 stars, and they are hard to get, and they feel so rewarding, they need to be aware of this in order to have goals and motivation, let's be honest it doesn't take more than a week to go through act 1-3, and lets be honest again, no beginner newcomer is going to be able to get through Thanos on act 3 easily with their "high tier 4*" also opening PHCs is adicting so they have that going on there.
Yes, 5 stars are a higher tier. But once you get 4 stars, the only things you are working towards is leveling up the 4 stars and getting 5 stars, both of which are much farther down the road. It's not a step-by-step process anymore. It used to be. You would get a 3 stars then work for a 4 star. Now, you can work for a 5 star after a 4 star. But when you skip to 4 star so quickly, you get disappointed that it actually takes time to get the next thing.
No, it's boring. I can see that as well as a new player.
With all due respect, I don't think you can. Once you've been playing for a long time, you can't see the game as a new player sees it, because you know everything already. If I knew then what I know now, the game would have been boring *as it was* originally. So there's nothing about how the game was that I think was superior to how it is now in terms of being able to engage an experienced player. When you're playing the game for the first time, the exciting thing isn't the fight, its what happens when you win. We know that now. They don't know that yet.
What happens when you win? You get resources. If those resources are worse than what you have for the first three months of the games you'll be bored. Them not knowing what lies ahead proves my point more. If they don't know for sure if things will ever be challenging, then they don't know if they have any reason to get through the boring stuff.
I think you are assuming your point to prove your point. You're assuming the game doesn't present any interesting challenge for new players, and concluding that as a result not knowing anything about the future of the game would be an even worse experience for new players, because of your assumption that the initial experience is intolerable. But my point was that you can't safely assume the game presents no interesting challenge to a new player because of your experience with a new account that doesn't replicate what a new player experiences, because all of your subjective experience with a new account is colored by experience you can't subtract.
But even if you're correct about the early game being boring, the most common reason given for players being bored is not boring fights but stalled progression. Sure, newer players might be getting a faster jump on the early progression than we did, but they are also progressing faster through the mid-game than we did, and that's going to have a new positive on new player experience because it will help to address the very problems that early players experienced with progression. Those more powerful champs might make the very early game boring, but it isn't hard to level yourself out of that early boring content quickly. It is really in the mid game where you can get stuck progression-wise, and that's where having an early jump on champions and resources can pay off. Overall, I think that will likely help retain newer players much more than it will hurt.
Yes, 5 stars are a higher tier. But once you get 4 stars, the only things you are working towards is leveling up the 4 stars and getting 5 stars, both of which are much farther down the road. It's not a step-by-step process anymore. It used to be. You would get a 3 stars then work for a 4 star. Now, you can work for a 5 star after a 4 star. But when you skip to 4 star so quickly, you get disappointed that it actually takes time to get the next thing.
Uhhh yeah that is the point of the "Evolution" of the game, why do you think they are adding more and more 5 star champions? the game has to flow in a different direction, otherwise veteran players would be bored to death with the same content, that is the main reason why you can't put yourself in a beginner players mind, because the game has evolved, the way you progress is different, the way you get stuff is different than when you started playing.
Uhhh yeah that is the point of the "Evolution" of the game, why do you think they are adding more and more 5 star champions? the game has to flow in a different direction, otherwise veteran players would be bored to death with the same content, that is the main reason why you can't put yourself in a beginner players mind, because the game has evolved, the way you progress is different, the way you get stuff is different than when you started playing.
Just some friendly advice I tend to give to people in every game I've ever played: if you are enjoying the game, don't let discussions about the game interfere with the game itself. Its great that you want to share your experience playing the game, but remember not to get into the frame of mind of having to defend enjoying the game. It ain't worth it.
I still basically enjoy playing the game, I still enjoy progressing in the game, and I've played enough games that I can compartmentalize discussing them without impacting my enjoyment of the game one way or the other. Make sure you can do the same before you delve too deeply in grizzled veteran arguments about what "fun" is.
I'm a new player so i can give a little bit of my experience throughout my first month of playing this game, in this month i beat 100% Act 1, Run through Act 2, and currently i'm completing 100% act 3, however i also completed 100% beginner, Normal, And Heroic in the GOTG Vol 0 event, i currently have 10 4 stars, and 25 3 stars, and i have not felt bored, more like motivated for my progression, i have seen some posts of yours CrusherOfDreams and it feels like you just like to **** about people getting better champs than you, not wanting to be mean or something but that is how it feels, coming from someone who played fighting games competitively and don't like to grind, this game has been a blast for me.
i think the joy of the game itself is the progression, i was excited to get better rewards and clear more, the only frustrating thing in the game for me has been the Energy Limit, it is frustrating to have to wait 4 hours to get my energy refilled and continue my quests, the lack of ISO and Gold to Rank up my champions, but that has not made me quit the game, hell, not even the amount of bugs of the last month did, i have the hunger to get even more good stuff to grind even more arena, and to progress as quick as i can before i get to the veteran bracket.
i think that a better perspective of your point would be, new players quit because they do not have clear goals, we tell them "oh man! 4 stars are so good! they are the best in the game" and we do the same for 5 stars, so they get a 4 star and boom i accomplished my goal right? now what? there are many guides and stuff that lead you to have goals, i don't want to assume everyone is like me, so not everyone is going to know about Realm of Legends and Laberinth and that all End Game content, that is my goal, but the game didn't tell me or at least i don't remember it doing it "hey this is the end game content, you have to be really good and have good stuff to accomplish this challanging game!"
i had to look up what was next what should i be doing? what should i be excited for?.
Because once you know all of that you have motivation to get stronger, to grind and all that sort of stuff, and how you do it? by playing the game, you grind the arenas, you complete the quests, you rank up your champions, i think that we can compare 2 scenarios, pick a new player and show him some videos about the cool stuff of the game, and what could they do to accomplish that, give them goals, motivation, and pick another one who doesn't know anything about the game, i seriously think that Kabam might need to emphasize the importance of progression and what comes next, the excitement of "oh one day i will be able to complete realm of legends!" and that kind of stuff.
Take it with a grain of salt, it is just my experience and not everybody is the same, not everyone will like it, but i think the lack of guidance and a clear set of goals are at fault if the game is not enjoyable at first, i once thought this game was nothing but a clicker masher, but oh boy after doing a lot of research i fell in love with the game, and i'm very excited for my second month playing.
Well put and great perspective. This is why Crusher is inadequate in this debate. I can remember the challenge and enjoyment of running through arena and quests for the first time and earning those rewards. However, On my second account I'm just thinking "I've already done this. Just let me run through to quickly advance my account."
I'm a new player so i can give a little bit of my experience throughout my first month of playing this game, in this month i beat 100% Act 1, Run through Act 2, and currently i'm completing 100% act 3, however i also completed 100% beginner, Normal, And Heroic in the GOTG Vol 0 event, i currently have 10 4 stars, and 25 3 stars, and i have not felt bored, more like motivated for my progression, i have seen some posts of yours CrusherOfDreams and it feels like you just like to **** about people getting better champs than you, not wanting to be mean or something but that is how it feels, coming from someone who played fighting games competitively and don't like to grind, this game has been a blast for me.
i think the joy of the game itself is the progression, i was excited to get better rewards and clear more, the only frustrating thing in the game for me has been the Energy Limit, it is frustrating to have to wait 4 hours to get my energy refilled and continue my quests, the lack of ISO and Gold to Rank up my champions, but that has not made me quit the game, hell, not even the amount of bugs of the last month did, i have the hunger to get even more good stuff to grind even more arena, and to progress as quick as i can before i get to the veteran bracket.
i think that a better perspective of your point would be, new players quit because they do not have clear goals, we tell them "oh man! 4 stars are so good! they are the best in the game" and we do the same for 5 stars, so they get a 4 star and boom i accomplished my goal right? now what? there are many guides and stuff that lead you to have goals, i don't want to assume everyone is like me, so not everyone is going to know about Realm of Legends and Laberinth and that all End Game content, that is my goal, but the game didn't tell me or at least i don't remember it doing it "hey this is the end game content, you have to be really good and have good stuff to accomplish this challanging game!"
i had to look up what was next what should i be doing? what should i be excited for?.
Because once you know all of that you have motivation to get stronger, to grind and all that sort of stuff, and how you do it? by playing the game, you grind the arenas, you complete the quests, you rank up your champions, i think that we can compare 2 scenarios, pick a new player and show him some videos about the cool stuff of the game, and what could they do to accomplish that, give them goals, motivation, and pick another one who doesn't know anything about the game, i seriously think that Kabam might need to emphasize the importance of progression and what comes next, the excitement of "oh one day i will be able to complete realm of legends!" and that kind of stuff.
Take it with a grain of salt, it is just my experience and not everybody is the same, not everyone will like it, but i think the lack of guidance and a clear set of goals are at fault if the game is not enjoyable at first, i once thought this game was nothing but a clicker masher, but oh boy after doing a lot of research i fell in love with the game, and i'm very excited for my second month playing.
Well put and great perspective. This is why Crusher is inadequate in this debate. I can remember the challenge and enjoyment of running through arena and quests for the first time and earning those rewards. However, On my second account I'm just thinking "I've already done this. Just let me run through to quickly advance my account."
I know this. I knew things would be boring for awhile since it's so basic and I'd done it before. The only reason it was fun before was because we had that new-game-rush of excitement. But even after I'd played for awhile, when the rush had worn off the first time around, things were still boring. The reason is that I was demolishing literally everyone. No one within the first 2 Acts, outside of Kang, equals 1000 rating. That is how good my Hulk is. It's going to do the same thing over and over if it's not challenging. My opinion is inadequate on some of the feelings you have initially, but I at least know that doing easy fights repetitively is BORING.
No, it's boring. I can see that as well as a new player.
With all due respect, I don't think you can. Once you've been playing for a long time, you can't see the game as a new player sees it, because you know everything already. If I knew then what I know now, the game would have been boring *as it was* originally. So there's nothing about how the game was that I think was superior to how it is now in terms of being able to engage an experienced player. When you're playing the game for the first time, the exciting thing isn't the fight, its what happens when you win. We know that now. They don't know that yet.
What happens when you win? You get resources. If those resources are worse than what you have for the first three months of the games you'll be bored. Them not knowing what lies ahead proves my point more. If they don't know for sure if things will ever be challenging, then they don't know if they have any reason to get through the boring stuff.
I think you are assuming your point to prove your point. You're assuming the game doesn't present any interesting challenge for new players, and concluding that as a result not knowing anything about the future of the game would be an even worse experience for new players, because of your assumption that the initial experience is intolerable. But my point was that you can't safely assume the game presents no interesting challenge to a new player because of your experience with a new account that doesn't replicate what a new player experiences, because all of your subjective experience with a new account is colored by experience you can't subtract.
But even if you're correct about the early game being boring, the most common reason given for players being bored is not boring fights but stalled progression. Sure, newer players might be getting a faster jump on the early progression than we did, but they are also progressing faster through the mid-game than we did, and that's going to have a new positive on new player experience because it will help to address the very problems that early players experienced with progression. Those more powerful champs might make the very early game boring, but it isn't hard to level yourself out of that early boring content quickly. It is really in the mid game where you can get stuck progression-wise, and that's where having an early jump on champions and resources can pay off. Overall, I think that will likely help retain newer players much more than it will hurt.
It's not a wild assumption to think that doing fights against people who are a fourth or a third of your rating for the first 2 Acts of the game is boring.
I know that when I was a new player, I had played enough mobile games to know that the game couldn't be judged by the first 2/3 of it; the value was in the long haul view. While it took a couple months to get my first 4*, I think that if I had gotten it earlier, it wouldn't have changed much besides being able to more easily run through to Act 3. Acts 1 and 2 were dull to go through even with just 2* and my 1 3*, while Act 3 was where the lack of the in-game information started to kick in (Parry? Huh? What is this Evade people talk about?). Even having a 4*, Thanos was still so tough to me! I might have hit a resource wall faster if I had the enhanced rate of champion pulling of current new players, but I would have had more new champs to play with while waiting for said resources for my main guys, so it would have worked out.
So for retention, I think it comes down more to a player's experience with freemium mobile gaming and the huge amount of grinding those games tend to expect of you. If you know that things are easy now to give you a sense of quick progression before the grind sets in, you can more easily bear the idea of the long haul. If that is new to you, the ease of the beginning may make you feel the whole game will be like that and thus not worth the time.
Just my opinion here, but I totally disagree with this post. I'll draw from my experience as a 9 month player. I got a 4* Ms Marvel very early and had a lot of fun beating the earlier quests using her. It was not boring at all getting the rewards. I also got 3* champs very easily in arena.
I then got a few other 4*s but reached a point where I didn't have the resources to upgrade them, so I joined a good alliance to get better rewards and have kept progressing from there.
Recently I started a second account for my son. He unfortunately hasn't had the same luck as me in pulling 4*s as I did and prefers to harass me to play my main account. He finds it really boring to go through the early quests with his 2* OML and I find that so too.
My point is that getting good champs early in the game can have the opposite effect and give players encouragement to continue, which is why Kabam has probably made 4*s easier to get for beginners. Grinding this game in the earlier stages can be a tedious chore, and I'm sure Kabam will prefer to give new players motivation to continue playing than having them quit out of frustration. That is how they got me hooked lol
I know that when I was a new player, I had played enough mobile games to know that the game couldn't be judged by the first 2/3 of it; the value was in the long haul view. While it took a couple months to get my first 4*, I think that if I had gotten it earlier, it wouldn't have changed much besides being able to more easily run through to Act 3. Acts 1 and 2 were dull to go through even with just 2* and my 1 3*, while Act 3 was where the lack of the in-game information started to kick in (Parry? Huh? What is this Evade people talk about?). Even having a 4*, Thanos was still so tough to me! I might have hit a resource wall faster if I had the enhanced rate of champion pulling of current new players, but I would have had more new champs to play with while waiting for said resources for my main guys, so it would have worked out.
So for retention, I think it comes down more to a player's experience with freemium mobile gaming and the huge amount of grinding those games tend to expect of you. If you know that things are easy now to give you a sense of quick progression before the grind sets in, you can more easily bear the idea of the long haul. If that is new to you, the ease of the beginning may make you feel the whole game will be like that and thus not worth the time.
Okay, you found the game entertaining to begin with. That's you opinion, and I have mine. But I'm not alone. My brother used to get me to do fights on my account, and most times, I wouldn't let him. But when he finally was able to get his own account, he quit. I think I mentioned this before, I might not have, but it doesn't turn ALL players away. But even if this is turning 10% away, and it's gotta be more than that, it's a problem. Do you see what I'm saying? You may not agree that it's boring, but even if it is to 1 or 2 out of 10 players, it's a pretty big issue. Can we agree on that point?
I can agree that some will be turned away, but that 10-20% is not a huge number for a mobile game. Turnover is very high with most mobile games given the way they are designed and structured, and with the vast number of them, and I would hazard a guess that 80% retention is probably fabulous. The real question is retention rates past hitting Veteran's bracket and such, rather than after a week or less.
Just my opinion here, but I totally disagree with this post. I'll draw from my experience as a 9 month player. I got a 4* Ms Marvel very early and had a lot of fun beating the earlier quests using her. It was not boring at all getting the rewards. I also got 3* champs very easily in arena.
I then got a few other 4*s but reached a point where I didn't have the resources to upgrade them, so I joined a good alliance to get better rewards and have kept progressing from there.
Recently I started a second account for my son. He unfortunately hasn't had the same luck as me in pulling 4*s as I did and prefers to harass me to play my main account. He finds it really boring to go through the early quests with his 2* OML and I find that so too.
My point is that getting good champs early in the game can have the opposite effect and give players encouragement to continue, which is why Kabam has probably made 4*s easier to get for beginners. Grinding this game in the earlier stages can be a tedious chore, and I'm sure Kabam will prefer to give new players motivation to continue playing than having them quit out of frustration. That is how they got me hooked lol
I see where you're coming from, but impatience on getting good champs has always been a problem. People react differently to different things. I did want that 4 star, but it was boring whenever I used him. We honestly don't know how he would've reacted if he DID get a 4 star, but was still facing 1 or 2 stars. As I said, even only 10-20% share my opinion on this, that's still a lot of people dropping their accounts.
I can agree that some will be turned away, but that 10-20% is not a huge number for a mobile game. Turnover is very high with most mobile games given the way they are designed and structured, and with the vast number of them, and I would hazard a guess that 80% retention is probably fabulous. The real question is retention rates past hitting Veteran's bracket and such, rather than after a week or less.
I don't mean 10-20% as a whole, I mean 10-20% from this specific problem: early boredom due to easy fights. There's going to be a large portion of people who drop the game just because people drop games all the time. This 10-20% is just an added problem. Can we agree that, and I'm just making up numbers here, if the retention rate was 70%, but is now 50-60% because of this, that's a problem?
I see where you're coming from, but impatience on getting good champs has always been a problem. People react differently to different things. I did want that 4 star, but it was boring whenever I used him. We honestly don't know how he would've reacted if he DID get a 4 star, but was still facing 1 or 2 stars. As I said, even only 10-20% share my opinion on this, that's still a lot of people dropping their accounts.
The question is not whether that problem exists, but whether the solution is worse than the problem. Games have playerbases with all kinds of interests and perspectives, and no game can address them all because they are overlapping and contradictory. It is almost certainly a true statement that there exists some number of players greater than zero that are quitting because the resource earning rate is high enough to make the early stages of the game boring, which is your conjecture. But there are other players that are being retained specifically because of that higher earning rate which you are apparently unwilling to acknowledge, because to you it seems "obvious" that everyone should be equally bored by the same things as you. If you acknowledge that those people also exist, you're left with the extremely difficult problem of trying to prove that the first group is significantly larger than the second one, and the net players retained would be higher if the early game was changed.
It is relatively easy to demonstrate that any game change - ANY game change - benefits at least one person. Actual game crashes probably benefits someone somewhere. Proving it benefits more players than it hurts, and is better in the long run, is the harder problem.
I see where you're coming from, but impatience on getting good champs has always been a problem. People react differently to different things. I did want that 4 star, but it was boring whenever I used him. We honestly don't know how he would've reacted if he DID get a 4 star, but was still facing 1 or 2 stars. As I said, even only 10-20% share my opinion on this, that's still a lot of people dropping their accounts.
The question is not whether that problem exists, but whether the solution is worse than the problem. Games have playerbases with all kinds of interests and perspectives, and no game can address them all because they are overlapping and contradictory. It is almost certainly a true statement that there exists some number of players greater than zero that are quitting because the resource earning rate is high enough to make the early stages of the game boring, which is your conjecture. But there are other players that are being retained specifically because of that higher earning rate which you are apparently unwilling to acknowledge, because to you it seems "obvious" that everyone should be equally bored by the same things as you. If you acknowledge that those people also exist, you're left with the extremely difficult problem of trying to prove that the first group is significantly larger than the second one, and the net players retained would be higher if the early game was changed.
It is relatively easy to demonstrate that any game change - ANY game change - benefits at least one person. Actual game crashes probably benefits someone somewhere. Proving it benefits more players than it hurts, and is better in the long run, is the harder problem.
I know that people are going to quit because of not getting 4 stars early on. But if people are impatient, then they'll quit before they get a 5 star, so their accounts are gone either way. If they just want free ****, they won't get it forever, and they'll either toughen up or quit, so reducing the odds won't make them leave any more. But those who are bored, not all, but some, they'll leave due to this. I have no idea which group is larger. Honestly, the group who wants free **** and will leave if they don't get it is probably larger. But their leaving anyway once they don't get a 5 star within 5 weeks. People who are patient are generally the ones who have the opinion that it's boring early on. People who play patiently are also the ones who generally spend money. This is common sense. If people want free ****, they are less likely to actually buy ****. I'm not saying Kabam should cater to either group, I'm saying that they can't cater to the impatient-needy-free-things-please group, which is what they are doing now.
Seriously, this is a real problem. I'm not the only one with this feeling. My brother, remember, quit his accounts as well. I'm only logging on once a day on my new account at this point. Players are leaving the game because it's so dull.
New players have been leaving this game since December 2014. Just because it is now June 2017, it doesn't mean people had changed.
Many new faces learn quickly that the game is a grind. It is a grind to level up. It is a grind to rank up. It is a grind to chase upper level milestones in arenas. It is simply a grind.
Other games are also a grind like Galaxy of Heroes. The key difference is that the grind in Galaxy is only like 30 minutes per day. By comparison, the grind in MCOC can take hours where each hour feels like a week.
Further, unlike other games like Dawn of Titans where the "grind" is mainly a waiting game (e.g. waiting for blah blah blah to finish upgrading), the grind in MCOC requires active participation. That's why people use auto-fight a lot.
Finally, people don't like losing. When they realize that they can't win jack from arenas, they feel like there is no point and just quit. People had been complaining about this since day one.
New players have been leaving this game since December 2014. Just because it is now June 2017, it doesn't mean people had changed.
Many new faces learn quickly that the game is a grind. It is a grind to level up. It is a grind to rank up. It is a grind to chase upper level milestones in arenas. It is simply a grind.
Other games are also a grind like Galaxy of Heroes. The key difference is that the grind in Galaxy is only like 30 minutes per day. By comparison, the grind in MCOC can take hours where each hour feels like a week.
Further, unlike other games like Dawn of Titans where the "grind" is mainly a waiting game (e.g. waiting for blah blah blah to finish upgrading), the grind in MCOC requires active participation. That's why people use auto-fight a lot.
Finally, people don't like losing. When they realize that they can't win jack from arenas, they feel like there is no point and just quit. People had been complaining about this since day one.
People also don't like winning every fight they can find. New players see now point to exploring Acts 1 and 2 because
1) It's boring because they can steamroll everyone.
2) They already have better stuff.
Look, I'm all for making 4 stars more accessible than they used to be. Losing fights is, as you said, annoying. But it can't be this easy. Around 50% of new players get a 4 star within a week. Then, they're limited to easy fights. It gets old. I'm not saying it's boring for everyone, it's just my experience. And I know I'm not alone, as my brother had this boredom as well. You don't have to share that feeling to admit that the feeling coming so frequently is a problem.
Wow! First of all I am amazed that anyone would start a second account and start the grind all over again! Why? For what possible reason! And to address your reasoning for new and younger players not sticking around, the real reason they don't stay around is that the game is pretty complicated as far as they are concerned. They are drawn to games that are much simpler and even less graphically appealing because they ARE simple and gratification is immediate. It isn't getting a 4 star to soon that is the problem, it is gathering the resources to level them. You gotta 100 percent act one before you collect near enough ISO to rank them at all. Most don't want to deal with thinking about who to rank, or to spend the time to obtain the stuff you need to rank a 4 or even a 3. Or about how to spend skill points. And then if by some chance they do work their way through figuring out how to rank and spend skill points they eventually hit the Alpha and t4 cat wall...it has taken me three years to collect 4 complete t4 class cats...not many people would stick around when they hit that kind of a wall...in fact that is the wall making many drop out. Doesn't matter if you get 4 and 5 star champs if you can't get supplies or the alphas and t4 cats to rank them. The arenas really have come down to one of two things, you get the instant gratification of winning the top prizes or you settle for shards. The majority are settling for shards, and there is no sense of instant gratification when the prizes are awarded. "Oh yippy! I got 250 shards closer to 2000! Yea!" The same with the sparse number of t4 shards handed out...it takes so long to make one they loose interest. I am loosing interest...42 4s and 3 5s and a total of 4 t4 class cats for ranking...Since you are holding this for "Approval" let me add that I am a teacher and started the game 3 years ago when a student showed it to me. None of the students play it now... They would rather play simple games where they beat their own high score. They compete by comparing level completion and top scores. Their games really do rely on "skill" and only skill. They do not have timers running or unobtainable items necessary to move up....and that Mike...or whoever...is gospel!
Wow! First of all I am amazed that anyone would start a second account and start the grind all over again! Why? For what possible reason! And to address your reasoning for new and younger players not sticking around, the real reason they don't stay around is that the game is pretty complicated as far as they are concerned. They are drawn to games that are much simpler and even less graphically appealing because they ARE simple and gratification is immediate. It isn't getting a 4 star to soon that is the problem, it is gathering the resources to level them. You gotta 100 percent act one before you collect near enough ISO to rank them at all. Most don't want to deal with thinking about who to rank, or to spend the time to obtain the stuff you need to rank a 4 or even a 3. Or about how to spend skill points. And then if by some chance they do work their way through figuring out how to rank and spend skill points they eventually hit the Alpha and t4 cat wall...it has taken me three years to collect 4 complete t4 class cats...not many people would stick around when they hit that kind of a wall...in fact that is the wall making many drop out. Doesn't matter if you get 4 and 5 star champs if you can't get supplies or the alphas and t4 cats to rank them. The arenas really have come down to one of two things, you get the instant gratification of winning the top prizes or you settle for shards. The majority are settling for shards, and there is no sense of instant gratification when the prizes are awarded. "Oh yippy! I got 250 shards closer to 2000! Yea!" The same with the sparse number of t4 shards handed out...it takes so long to make one they loose interest. I am loosing interest...42 4s and 3 5s and a total of 4 t4 class cats for ranking...Since you are holding this for "Approval" let me add that I am a teacher and started the game 3 years ago when a student showed it to me. None of the students play it now... They would rather play simple games where they beat their own high score. They compete by comparing level completion and top scores. Their games really do rely on "skill" and only skill. They do not have timers running or unobtainable items necessary to move up....and that Mike...or whoever...is gospel!
Comments
My son pulled a 4* Hyperion from the 4 star crystal we earned from completing Act 3 yesterday.......
The problem for new account is lack of iso and gold, luckily Kabam started the gold realm yesterday, so solve one problem.
I really don't think that there should be "unicorns" to track down. If characters are going to be better than others, we would get stuck with Hulk and Juggernaut and all the big guys wrecking 50% of the players, and then SW and Magneto just controlling everyone and destroying them. Everyone should be somewhat level in terms of skill, otherwise we end up with no one having Luke Cage and EVERYONE having Star Lord, which just isn't very fun.
I really don't think that there should be "unicorns" to track down. If characters are going to be better than others, we would get stuck with Hulk and Juggernaut and all the big guys wrecking 50% of the players, and then SW and Magneto just controlling everyone and destroying them. Everyone should be somewhat level in terms of skill, otherwise we end up with no one having Luke Cage and EVERYONE having Star Lord, which just isn't very fun.
i think the joy of the game itself is the progression, i was excited to get better rewards and clear more, the only frustrating thing in the game for me has been the Energy Limit, it is frustrating to have to wait 4 hours to get my energy refilled and continue my quests, the lack of ISO and Gold to Rank up my champions, but that has not made me quit the game, hell, not even the amount of bugs of the last month did, i have the hunger to get even more good stuff to grind even more arena, and to progress as quick as i can before i get to the veteran bracket.
i think that a better perspective of your point would be, new players quit because they do not have clear goals, we tell them "oh man! 4 stars are so good! they are the best in the game" and we do the same for 5 stars, so they get a 4 star and boom i accomplished my goal right? now what? there are many guides and stuff that lead you to have goals, i don't want to assume everyone is like me, so not everyone is going to know about Realm of Legends and Laberinth and that all End Game content, that is my goal, but the game didn't tell me or at least i don't remember it doing it "hey this is the end game content, you have to be really good and have good stuff to accomplish this challanging game!"
i had to look up what was next what should i be doing? what should i be excited for?.
Because once you know all of that you have motivation to get stronger, to grind and all that sort of stuff, and how you do it? by playing the game, you grind the arenas, you complete the quests, you rank up your champions, i think that we can compare 2 scenarios, pick a new player and show him some videos about the cool stuff of the game, and what could they do to accomplish that, give them goals, motivation, and pick another one who doesn't know anything about the game, i seriously think that Kabam might need to emphasize the importance of progression and what comes next, the excitement of "oh one day i will be able to complete realm of legends!" and that kind of stuff.
Take it with a grain of salt, it is just my experience and not everybody is the same, not everyone will like it, but i think the lack of guidance and a clear set of goals are at fault if the game is not enjoyable at first, i once thought this game was nothing but a clicker masher, but oh boy after doing a lot of research i fell in love with the game, and i'm very excited for my second month playing.
Three things; one is a question, the other two aren't:
1 - When did you get your first 4 star in relation to where you were in the Story Quests? Was it early Act 1? Mid-Act 2? Please let me know.
2 - I'm saying that it can be boring to have to go in such a strange pattern in the game. It's like going up stairs, and each star is a stair. You go up the first stair and second stair quickly, then jump to the third or fourth, and then in up and down the stairs, doing all the in-between stuff for a long time, before you can get to that last step. People get to that fourth step so quickly, and it's very disproportional to how long it takes to reach step 5. People get to step 4, and have two thoughts:
1) Why the heck is it taking so long to get to step 5?
2) I'm already at step 4, so why do I have to run around on steps 2 and 3 for so long before I get to step 5?
Then they sometimes will just say "Screw it!" and quit.
3 - I'm not just &$+%#-ing about how people can get 4 stars so easily now. Yeah, it's a little frustrating that the once best item is so common now after most of us had to grind so hard for it, but I'm still benefitting with this second account, so that's not the main point. My point is that the second account is boring. I'll use an example I used earlier: If you forced the MMXIV alliance to play Maps 1 and 2 on AQ, it would be boring. They have vastly superior champs, so they would just steamroll everyone. Eventually, they'd realize that the resources they already have are much better than what they earn from the measly Map 1/2 AQ rewards, so they'd just stop playing. They already have great things, so why bother getting bad things, right? Many players are quitting because they have great things, and see no point to playing, since they're just earning bad things as rewards. They know they aren't the best, but they don't see how they'll get better if they're just earning garbage when they already have high caliber stuff.
Of course if you put it that way it is going to sound boring, its is like if you put a UMVC3 Pro player to complete the Arcade mode on Easy mode, it is unfair to compare it that way, you are not putting yourself in the new player shoes, but ok, let's add something to your example, let's put that in the rewards screen you get a pop up that you unlocked the next tier in the AQ Maps, and boom you see the possible rewards, oh! 5 tier 4 fully class catalysts, would that motivate you to play the AQ map 2 so you can go on with the next ones to get those good rewards? also because they have a 4* doesn't mean the have the best in the game, there are still tiers above them, but thing is they might not know, that may be the reason why they quit, then we go full circle on my point, they quit because they do not have clear goals, if they were more aware of oh, there is still a tier above it, 5 stars, and they are hard to get, and they feel so rewarding, they need to be aware of this in order to have goals and motivation, let's be honest it doesn't take more than a week to go through act 1-3, and lets be honest again, no beginner newcomer is going to be able to get through Thanos on act 3 easily with their "high tier 4*" also opening PHCs is adicting so they have that going on there.
What happens when you win? You get resources. If those resources are worse than what you have for the first three months of the games you'll be bored. Them not knowing what lies ahead proves my point more. If they don't know for sure if things will ever be challenging, then they don't know if they have any reason to get through the boring stuff.
I never claimed to know exactly how new players feel. I don't, I know that. There are certain aspects that you can't relive. I know that I want to go for Parry now. I know which characters are good. I don't have that new-exciting-game rush of exhilaration anymore, so yes, things will be a little more boring. I expected the initial boredom to replace the first-time rush of excitement. But it's easy to see how some things are boring. Doing fights where the enemy has no hope of winning unless you literally stop fighting is boring. On my original account, I explored Act 1 and completed Act 2. I wanted that 4 star crystal, so I explored Act 3 before I finished exploring Act 2. Now that I had a decent roster of 4 stars, exploring that Act was extremely boring. Doing easy fights with good characters is boring, and it always will be. We need to be challenged to have fun. That initial rush doesn't last until we get a 5 star. They load new guys up with good stuff to take on the bad stuff. It gets old once the rush wears off.
Yes, 5 stars are a higher tier. But once you get 4 stars, the only things you are working towards is leveling up the 4 stars and getting 5 stars, both of which are much farther down the road. It's not a step-by-step process anymore. It used to be. You would get a 3 stars then work for a 4 star. Now, you can work for a 5 star after a 4 star. But when you skip to 4 star so quickly, you get disappointed that it actually takes time to get the next thing.
I think you are assuming your point to prove your point. You're assuming the game doesn't present any interesting challenge for new players, and concluding that as a result not knowing anything about the future of the game would be an even worse experience for new players, because of your assumption that the initial experience is intolerable. But my point was that you can't safely assume the game presents no interesting challenge to a new player because of your experience with a new account that doesn't replicate what a new player experiences, because all of your subjective experience with a new account is colored by experience you can't subtract.
But even if you're correct about the early game being boring, the most common reason given for players being bored is not boring fights but stalled progression. Sure, newer players might be getting a faster jump on the early progression than we did, but they are also progressing faster through the mid-game than we did, and that's going to have a new positive on new player experience because it will help to address the very problems that early players experienced with progression. Those more powerful champs might make the very early game boring, but it isn't hard to level yourself out of that early boring content quickly. It is really in the mid game where you can get stuck progression-wise, and that's where having an early jump on champions and resources can pay off. Overall, I think that will likely help retain newer players much more than it will hurt.
Uhhh yeah that is the point of the "Evolution" of the game, why do you think they are adding more and more 5 star champions? the game has to flow in a different direction, otherwise veteran players would be bored to death with the same content, that is the main reason why you can't put yourself in a beginner players mind, because the game has evolved, the way you progress is different, the way you get stuff is different than when you started playing.
Just some friendly advice I tend to give to people in every game I've ever played: if you are enjoying the game, don't let discussions about the game interfere with the game itself. Its great that you want to share your experience playing the game, but remember not to get into the frame of mind of having to defend enjoying the game. It ain't worth it.
I still basically enjoy playing the game, I still enjoy progressing in the game, and I've played enough games that I can compartmentalize discussing them without impacting my enjoyment of the game one way or the other. Make sure you can do the same before you delve too deeply in grizzled veteran arguments about what "fun" is.
Well put and great perspective. This is why Crusher is inadequate in this debate. I can remember the challenge and enjoyment of running through arena and quests for the first time and earning those rewards. However, On my second account I'm just thinking "I've already done this. Just let me run through to quickly advance my account."
I know this. I knew things would be boring for awhile since it's so basic and I'd done it before. The only reason it was fun before was because we had that new-game-rush of excitement. But even after I'd played for awhile, when the rush had worn off the first time around, things were still boring. The reason is that I was demolishing literally everyone. No one within the first 2 Acts, outside of Kang, equals 1000 rating. That is how good my Hulk is. It's going to do the same thing over and over if it's not challenging. My opinion is inadequate on some of the feelings you have initially, but I at least know that doing easy fights repetitively is BORING.
It's not a wild assumption to think that doing fights against people who are a fourth or a third of your rating for the first 2 Acts of the game is boring.
So for retention, I think it comes down more to a player's experience with freemium mobile gaming and the huge amount of grinding those games tend to expect of you. If you know that things are easy now to give you a sense of quick progression before the grind sets in, you can more easily bear the idea of the long haul. If that is new to you, the ease of the beginning may make you feel the whole game will be like that and thus not worth the time.
I then got a few other 4*s but reached a point where I didn't have the resources to upgrade them, so I joined a good alliance to get better rewards and have kept progressing from there.
Recently I started a second account for my son. He unfortunately hasn't had the same luck as me in pulling 4*s as I did and prefers to harass me to play my main account. He finds it really boring to go through the early quests with his 2* OML and I find that so too.
My point is that getting good champs early in the game can have the opposite effect and give players encouragement to continue, which is why Kabam has probably made 4*s easier to get for beginners. Grinding this game in the earlier stages can be a tedious chore, and I'm sure Kabam will prefer to give new players motivation to continue playing than having them quit out of frustration. That is how they got me hooked lol
Okay, you found the game entertaining to begin with. That's you opinion, and I have mine. But I'm not alone. My brother used to get me to do fights on my account, and most times, I wouldn't let him. But when he finally was able to get his own account, he quit. I think I mentioned this before, I might not have, but it doesn't turn ALL players away. But even if this is turning 10% away, and it's gotta be more than that, it's a problem. Do you see what I'm saying? You may not agree that it's boring, but even if it is to 1 or 2 out of 10 players, it's a pretty big issue. Can we agree on that point?
I see where you're coming from, but impatience on getting good champs has always been a problem. People react differently to different things. I did want that 4 star, but it was boring whenever I used him. We honestly don't know how he would've reacted if he DID get a 4 star, but was still facing 1 or 2 stars. As I said, even only 10-20% share my opinion on this, that's still a lot of people dropping their accounts.
I don't mean 10-20% as a whole, I mean 10-20% from this specific problem: early boredom due to easy fights. There's going to be a large portion of people who drop the game just because people drop games all the time. This 10-20% is just an added problem. Can we agree that, and I'm just making up numbers here, if the retention rate was 70%, but is now 50-60% because of this, that's a problem?
The question is not whether that problem exists, but whether the solution is worse than the problem. Games have playerbases with all kinds of interests and perspectives, and no game can address them all because they are overlapping and contradictory. It is almost certainly a true statement that there exists some number of players greater than zero that are quitting because the resource earning rate is high enough to make the early stages of the game boring, which is your conjecture. But there are other players that are being retained specifically because of that higher earning rate which you are apparently unwilling to acknowledge, because to you it seems "obvious" that everyone should be equally bored by the same things as you. If you acknowledge that those people also exist, you're left with the extremely difficult problem of trying to prove that the first group is significantly larger than the second one, and the net players retained would be higher if the early game was changed.
It is relatively easy to demonstrate that any game change - ANY game change - benefits at least one person. Actual game crashes probably benefits someone somewhere. Proving it benefits more players than it hurts, and is better in the long run, is the harder problem.
I know that people are going to quit because of not getting 4 stars early on. But if people are impatient, then they'll quit before they get a 5 star, so their accounts are gone either way. If they just want free ****, they won't get it forever, and they'll either toughen up or quit, so reducing the odds won't make them leave any more. But those who are bored, not all, but some, they'll leave due to this. I have no idea which group is larger. Honestly, the group who wants free **** and will leave if they don't get it is probably larger. But their leaving anyway once they don't get a 5 star within 5 weeks. People who are patient are generally the ones who have the opinion that it's boring early on. People who play patiently are also the ones who generally spend money. This is common sense. If people want free ****, they are less likely to actually buy ****. I'm not saying Kabam should cater to either group, I'm saying that they can't cater to the impatient-needy-free-things-please group, which is what they are doing now.
Many new faces learn quickly that the game is a grind. It is a grind to level up. It is a grind to rank up. It is a grind to chase upper level milestones in arenas. It is simply a grind.
Other games are also a grind like Galaxy of Heroes. The key difference is that the grind in Galaxy is only like 30 minutes per day. By comparison, the grind in MCOC can take hours where each hour feels like a week.
Further, unlike other games like Dawn of Titans where the "grind" is mainly a waiting game (e.g. waiting for blah blah blah to finish upgrading), the grind in MCOC requires active participation. That's why people use auto-fight a lot.
Finally, people don't like losing. When they realize that they can't win jack from arenas, they feel like there is no point and just quit. People had been complaining about this since day one.
People also don't like winning every fight they can find. New players see now point to exploring Acts 1 and 2 because
1) It's boring because they can steamroll everyone.
2) They already have better stuff.
Look, I'm all for making 4 stars more accessible than they used to be. Losing fights is, as you said, annoying. But it can't be this easy. Around 50% of new players get a 4 star within a week. Then, they're limited to easy fights. It gets old. I'm not saying it's boring for everyone, it's just my experience. And I know I'm not alone, as my brother had this boredom as well. You don't have to share that feeling to admit that the feeling coming so frequently is a problem.