Honestly, 17 disagrees on a post where I a) say I spend on the game and b) think the game is better now than four years ago is probably me getting off easy. And also its still the weekend.
I’m all for supporting things you like with your dollar but the sigil had lost most of its value outside of the weekly units… better off promoting the unit deal. But I guess this is more a solidarity move?
@DNA3000 may I ask why? Genuinely asking because I am struggling to see the point of this.
To be honest, once I realized that early renewal would keep stacking, I started doing it just for fun. But at some point it took on a life of its own. Also, there’s an inside joke embedded in reaching one year of banked time that’s neither here nor there.
But as to subbing at all, I personally think the benefits are genuinely marginally optional. Which is to say, they exist and they are worth something, but whether they are worth the subscription price depends on how expensive it is in relative terms. To me, the Sigil has no material cost and I’m happy to support a game I play. I come from the old school MMO market where you subbed to games just to play them at all, and when most converted to F2P or hybrid games subbing became a way to support the game even though you could play for free.
Ten bucks a month is $120/yr and that’s probably a lot of money for most of our player base. I believe those of us who love the game and play it and can afford to should support it financially, because every dollar we spend is a dollar someone else doesn’t have to.
I could also whale out during big sale days and sometimes I in fact do. But the Sigil is consistent recurring revenue, and the accountants out there will understand why I specifically sub to support the game.
I come from a similar school of logic but I prefer to support through things that have consistent value. And the $5 unit deal remains the best deal going.
I think the Sigil store is often neglected and the players that subscribe feel taken for granted, and I say this as a long time former user of the Sigil. The 7star Switch kept me interested for a small period of time but it lacks anything of true value to a paragon player let along valiant players outside of that.
To be honest, I agree. If you are on a limit budget but you still want to spend or support the game, the $5 unit deal is what I would recommend buying. It has extremely good value for the cost, almost 9k units. I’m honestly not sure if even the Valiant daily unambiguously supercedes it. I just happen to also get that one regularly as well.
However, in pure economic terms the value of the Sigil is highly dependent on the value of arena express. For someone that grinds arena a lot, arena express can both increase the value of the Sigil to the point of being well worth it (it still won’t have the pure unit value of the daily card, but then again nothing else does) as well as having a very strong quality of life benefit that’s hard to put a value on.
I do agree that the Sigil deserves an update, but I never want the Sigil benefit to become so good that everyone agrees the value is awesome. At that point, it becomes too much of a need and not a want. A properly balanced Sigil is one where a reasonable percentage of the players think the value is worth it and buy it, but everyone else - probably the majority of players - think it isn’t and have no regrets about not buying it. You never want the majority of players to think if they don’t spend, and most don’t, they are missing out on something important.
When a majority of players think the Sigil is not worth the price, that’s actually working as intended, or at least working as I think it should. You just want *enough* people to disagree.
That’s a fair take and I agree with most of it. It’s a fine line they have to walk, but I think it’s achievable without introducing the situation you propose. They could introduce 7star or Titan shard trade ins, or if that’s considered too game breaking a trade in for the exalted shards.
My position is that there should be a small advantage to having the sigil that is progression relevant, and really at the top of the game it no longer offers enough of an advantage in acquisition to be worth it.
I’m all for supporting things you like with your dollar but the sigil had lost most of its value outside of the weekly units… better off promoting the unit deal. But I guess this is more a solidarity move?
@DNA3000 may I ask why? Genuinely asking because I am struggling to see the point of this.
To be honest, once I realized that early renewal would keep stacking, I started doing it just for fun. But at some point it took on a life of its own. Also, there’s an inside joke embedded in reaching one year of banked time that’s neither here nor there.
But as to subbing at all, I personally think the benefits are genuinely marginally optional. Which is to say, they exist and they are worth something, but whether they are worth the subscription price depends on how expensive it is in relative terms. To me, the Sigil has no material cost and I’m happy to support a game I play. I come from the old school MMO market where you subbed to games just to play them at all, and when most converted to F2P or hybrid games subbing became a way to support the game even though you could play for free.
Ten bucks a month is $120/yr and that’s probably a lot of money for most of our player base. I believe those of us who love the game and play it and can afford to should support it financially, because every dollar we spend is a dollar someone else doesn’t have to.
I could also whale out during big sale days and sometimes I in fact do. But the Sigil is consistent recurring revenue, and the accountants out there will understand why I specifically sub to support the game.
I come from a similar school of logic but I prefer to support through things that have consistent value. And the $5 unit deal remains the best deal going.
I think the Sigil store is often neglected and the players that subscribe feel taken for granted, and I say this as a long time former user of the Sigil. The 7star Switch kept me interested for a small period of time but it lacks anything of true value to a paragon player let along valiant players outside of that.
To be honest, I agree. If you are on a limit budget but you still want to spend or support the game, the $5 unit deal is what I would recommend buying. It has extremely good value for the cost, almost 9k units. I’m honestly not sure if even the Valiant daily unambiguously supercedes it. I just happen to also get that one regularly as well.
However, in pure economic terms the value of the Sigil is highly dependent on the value of arena express. For someone that grinds arena a lot, arena express can both increase the value of the Sigil to the point of being well worth it (it still won’t have the pure unit value of the daily card, but then again nothing else does) as well as having a very strong quality of life benefit that’s hard to put a value on.
I do agree that the Sigil deserves an update, but I never want the Sigil benefit to become so good that everyone agrees the value is awesome. At that point, it becomes too much of a need and not a want. A properly balanced Sigil is one where a reasonable percentage of the players think the value is worth it and buy it, but everyone else - probably the majority of players - think it isn’t and have no regrets about not buying it. You never want the majority of players to think if they don’t spend, and most don’t, they are missing out on something important.
When a majority of players think the Sigil is not worth the price, that’s actually working as intended, or at least working as I think it should. You just want *enough* people to disagree.
That’s a fair take and I agree with most of it. It’s a fine line they have to walk, but I think it’s achievable without introducing the situation you propose. They could introduce 7star or Titan shard trade ins, or if that’s considered too game breaking a trade in for the exalted shards.
My position is that there should be a small advantage to having the sigil that is progression relevant, and really at the top of the game it no longer offers enough of an advantage in acquisition to be worth it.
Fair enough. I think such a thing makes sense in general, although I think the Sigil is not the highest priority part of the reward system at the moment. But I would not be surprised if such updates aren’t in the pipeline somewhere.
I have a feeling I’m not going to be seeing a lot of major reward updates heading into the banquet or cyber weekend, where such reward boosts would be diluting the value of those events. But I have no information one way or the other, its just a feeling.
There was a post in July saying they are working on updating the sigil 🤞🏻 Kabam Crashed July 17 I've teased that we have big plans for Sigil in the past and they are getting much closer. If all goes according to plan you will see a big announcement about it at some point in the next 2 or 3 months.
Next will be two years of Sigil, which should happen in January 2029. I wonder what the game will even look like then. When I first started subscribing to the Sigil, basically when it first came out in July 2019:
The highest progression title was Cavalier (Thronebreaker was still a year out) The highest possible champion rank was 6* R3 (I think) Act 6.2 had just been released (we were beta testing 6.3) The highest monthly EQ difficulty tier was Uncollected The highest tier end game content was Labyrinth of Legends AQ did not yet have modifiers We were still grinding for 5* champs in the arena We could still sell champions There was no Incursions or Battlegrounds (we did have the precursor to Incursions: Dungeons)
The game is still recognizable of course, but in many ways it is a totally different game. We chase champions differently, or at least with different intent, we have more game modes to spread out time around, and almost all the content in parts of the game that did not exist back then is designed completely differently, with the new emphasis on roster depth (i.e. Act 7+, TB EQ difficulty, Seasons of Pain, Crucible). And I think there's been a more subtle shift from the pre-2019 game where you did content as part of the process of eventually progressing upward to doing content *explicitly* to progress up. Do 6.1, get Cavalier. Do Necropolis, get Valiant. That sort of thing. Admittedly, that began with the Collector, but still. Growing roster outward is still a grind, but progressing upward seems to me to be more of a skill hurdle than a grind barrier (cf: Cantona's speed runs).
And I think there's a lot more end game content than in the days (literally days) of the Maze. Not just traditional end game content like Gauntlet, Crucible and Summer of Suffering, but also competitive end game content vis-a-vis Battlegrounds. But the game is still very casual friendly. I still see players come back to the game after sometimes years of absence, and instead of being completely overwhelmed to the point of being scared away, they are often amazed by how much more content there is to do, how much more rewards there are and how easy they are to achieve with just a modicum of effort.
Yes, there are bugs, and yes there are obvious process failures. And yes, not everything the devs do is loved by everyone. But the fact that we still have a relatively stable playerbase that still plays the game, and the game still attracts lots of new players, and the game still welcomes back and is relatively friendly to players that previously dropped the game, and it has evolved so much over the last four and a half years but is still recognizably the same game, bodes well for me actually making it to two years of Sigil with the game still going strong.
Thanks DNA, for keeping the game alive so us f2p can enjoy it.
Comments
My position is that there should be a small
advantage to having the sigil that is progression relevant, and really at the top of the game it no longer offers enough of an advantage in acquisition to be worth it.
I have a feeling I’m not going to be seeing a lot of major reward updates heading into the banquet or cyber weekend, where such reward boosts would be diluting the value of those events. But I have no information one way or the other, its just a feeling.
Kabam Crashed
July 17
I've teased that we have big plans for Sigil in the past and they are getting much closer. If all goes according to plan you will see a big announcement about it at some point in the next 2 or 3 months.