Why the hate?

So I notice a lot of people saying that Black Panther (Civil war) is a bad champ, but I don't really see why. I'm not saying he's top tier or anything but from my point of view he's definitely good. He's a pretty useful fighter and a very good defender. Why is it that people dislike him so much?

Comments

cycyan

They mean if you play him, he’s a great defender.

BitterSteel

Only thing he has going for him, on offense, is bleed which many champs can do better, and reflect stun, which is mildly useful. However, there are just so many better options. He’s decent. Not good.

TurbulentUrFace

BitterSteel wrote: »

Only thing he has going for him, on offense, is bleed which many champs can do better, and reflect stun, which is mildly useful. However, there are just so many better options. He’s decent. Not good.

I see, that makes sense. Though I think he's better than decent. If nothing else for is defensive ability.

BitterSteel

TurbulentUrFace wrote: »

BitterSteel wrote: »

Only thing he has going for him, on offense, is bleed which many champs can do better, and reflect stun, which is mildly useful. However, there are just so many better options. He’s decent. Not good.

I see, that makes sense. Though I think he's better than decent. If nothing else for is defensive ability.

Fair enough, he’s perfectly useful for content up to act 4 (although I doubt he could beat maestro), heroic event quest and some master events. But any further than that and you’ll find he’s just not good enough. Many better champs for that, I personally used my 5* 4/55 duped black panther Classic tons in act 5 chapter 1-4.

NastyEfnNate

BPCW must’ve been one of your first champs and used him a lot

DNA3000

TurbulentUrFace wrote: »

BitterSteel wrote: »

Only thing he has going for him, on offense, is bleed which many champs can do better, and reflect stun, which is mildly useful. However, there are just so many better options. He’s decent. Not good.

I see, that makes sense. Though I think he's better than decent. If nothing else for is defensive ability.

The problem with his defensive ability when used as an attacker is that it doesn't mitigate and it doesn't scale. To put it simply, it doesn't reduce damage you take from attacks, so it doesn't directly reduce the chance you'll die if you get hit: it doesn't mitigate the possibility of losing a fight directly. Furthermore, as your opponents get stronger it doesn't do more against them. Consider Luke Cage's invulnerability. Because that completely negates all incoming damage, in a sense that ability gets stronger as your opponents get stronger. It helps you more when the fights get harder. Armor and resistance also do that: because they reduce incoming damage by a percentage, when incoming damage gets higher the amount of damage they negate also gets higher in direct proportion.

Stun reflection doesn't become more useful as the fights get harder. The stun doesn't last longer, and because you generally have to get hit to gain the effect the amount of damage you have to eat just to get any benefit from that ability keeps rising as the difficulty rises, until it becomes unaffordable. In a real sense, the benefit starts to disappear.

Defensive abilities that mitigate incoming damage tend to be more valuable than ones that don't, and defensive abilities that scale up with harder fights tend to be more valuable than ones that don't. Black Panther Civil War's stun reflection neither mitigates nor scales. So it is less useful to players when the champion is used as an attacker.

But as a defender, the rules are different. You don't expect your defenders to win every fight. You don't have to worry as much about scaling because on defense you have the node buffs and are usually numerically stronger than the attacking player. You don't only want defenses that mitigate damage, making the fight just last longer. You want them to do nasty things back to the attacker. On defense, stun reflection is far more nasty than on offense, because defenders are typically getting hit a lot, they are intrinsically more survivable (due to node buffs) and their purpose in life is not to win the game but to give their lives in the pursuit of making life miserable for the attacker.

A champion that usually dies in a fight but occasionally gets lucky and rips half the health of the opponent is a horrible attacker, but a wonderful defender.

Dexman1349

^^^ Plus, his stun reflection requires you to actually get stunned which is something that most AI champs can't don't do unless specifically buffed to do so (like mesmerize) or if the AI is playing champs with masteries (arena & AW).

When you get into the harder content, you simply don't get stunned so his stun reflect really doesn't help much.

His armor up is average. Plenty of other champs have better armor boosts.
His bleed is weak compared to others.
Reflective armor requires you to get hit (either full hits or blocks). In harder content, you do not want to get hit, at all. Even block damage is devastating.

Depending on your war levels, he's either really good (lower skilled allies) or he's below average (higher-experienced allies). Ally I'm in now doesn't even hesitate through him because we all know how to fight against him, but 9 months ago he used to tear us apart.

Like others have said, it's not that he's a bad champ. He is just not as good as an array of other champs in the game.

Immortal

Agreed with everything mentioned above...

He also doesn’t have prestige going for him... more on the average side.

Prior to the addition of killmonger, his synergies (one of his main selling point) has became rather undesired.

All of the champs that synergize with him are all in much need of an update.

TurbulentUrFace

Makes a lot more sense now. Thanks for the insight.

Hammerbro_64

After playing the Jordan challenge, I don’t even let the opponent hit my block. I just intercept and he is super easy on defense as well.

SpiritOfVengeance

I just fate seal him and then I can parry as many times as possible.