**KNOWN SPRING OF SORROW ISSUE**
We noticed a number of the Spring of Sorrow objectives aren't working properly, we are investigating and currently working on a potential solution.
We apologize for the inconvenience.
Options

Alliance war season 2 starts in two weeks! Where is the change log?

RiegelRiegel Posts: 1,088 ★★★★
Season 1 has been over for some time. This was supposed to be a test bed for AW seasons as a whole, but to date we do not know what will be changed going into season 2.

During the pre-season of season 1 I made a post, https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/48569/aw-matchmaking-update#latest the point was that the current matchmaking was not going to work. It received no reply from Kabam. This ended up being a major issue, and one alliance was given increased rewards as this affected them.

I hope going into season 2 we can discuss known issues and have them resolved before the start of the new season.

The main issue is piloting in all of its forms.
1. A skilled pilot can play all 30 accounts in his alliance to minimize deaths and maximize rewards.
2. A pilot may sell his skills to another alliance who may not have a skilled pilot of their own. RMT
3. A pilot may sell his account into an alliance and pilot that alliance for money. RMT.
4. A pilot from one alliance may sell his services to another alliance for other forms of payment.
Other forms of payment may be 2* wars giving the pilots alliance the win.
Also, this allows the pilot to avoid match ups with his alliance, and target specific alliances with the piloted alliance.
For example if the pilots alliance is rank 4, and the piloted alliance is vs the rank 3 alliance, the pilot can benefit his alliance by defeating the rank 3 alliance with no risk to his own alliance. Hard to understand, but basically the pilots alliance can climb the leader board at no risk.
5. The development of, https://theclassadvantage.com/war-opponent-calculator/ now lets people more easily figure out who they are facing in the war. This is a much easier fix. Simply remove the gain/loss in war rating and average the countdown for the war placement phase to the nearest 1, 5, 10, 30 minute.
For example instead of showing "War placement phase ends in 12:48:28" show 12:48 or 12:50 or 13:00. When you show down to the second it is very easy to discover who you are versing.
6. 2* wars need fixed. Make anything lower than 4* champions award less points at or above the plat 2 bracket.
4* are still easy, but I've seen people die to 2* champs during season 1 and this alliance got in the top 20.

This is a brief list of the major issues. If there are more to add please post them.

Quotes from the Alliance War seasons reveal video from Kabam.
"The coolest new feature."
"The biggest bragging rights in the game."
"Anytime someone looks at your profile or your alliance, they will be able to see how badass your alliance is and how active they are in war."
"We wanted to make alliance war as competitive as a mode can be, so we did changes to the scoring to rewards effort, to rewards strategy and most of all to make the mode more skill based."
"There has been a lot of talk about which alliance is better than which alliance, which alliance is the very best one, but now with seasons the talking is over because now we are going to find out."

There is still a lot of talk about which alliance is the best alliance, because we really didn't find out during season 1.

I hope we will see some of the issues above addressed before May 2nd. Seasons is a great feature, but I was told I was getting skill based content, and all I got was 5 guys with skill playing hundreds of accounts.

Comments

  • Options
    RiegelRiegel Posts: 1,088 ★★★★
    Really hope they address this as they addressed the Sentinel stuff in AQ. They made actions based on data collected from AQ. They have the data from the previous AW season, but we still don't know what changes, if any, will be made.

    I hope there is change. I hope it's announced soon.
  • Options
    RixobRixob Posts: 505 ★★
    I agree with a lot of your points. You have got to realize that this issue is going to be very hard to get Kabam to address. There are so many variables associated with piloting (or logging onto others accounts to fight).

    People are going to come up with all kinds of excuses for piloting. Oh its my brothers account he cant play in school. or Oh i have two accounts, or Oh a buddy of mine lost his phone so i fought for him.
    While im sure sometimes there are valid excuses. But, how could kabam prove it? Not only that, what could they do about it.

    This piloting issue also doesn't effect the majority of the MCOC community, it happens in the highest tiers of AW, which only makes up roughly 1% of the community. I think that is a big reason why this issue is having a hard time getting attention.

    I get your frustration though, i mean think if you were playing Halo or Call of Duty online, on person cant be 6 players at once. Everyone has to be skilled and on the same page.

    My opinion, the only way Kabam could fix this without banning people and banning anyone who logs onto a different account on the same device is to change the point system. But to what?
    Very complex issue here, but i feel you bro.
  • Options
    edited April 2018
    well, step 1 is that they acknowledge the issue. We know it happens, they know it happens, we know they know it happens. Continuing to ignore the issue is their way of saying it is an acceptable practice.
  • Options
    RiegelRiegel Posts: 1,088 ★★★★
    The issue is very complex. I have played other mobile games where if they saw you logged on in a vastly different location within "X" amount of time you would get a temp ban, and this punishment would escalate the more times it happened till it was permanent.

    I do agree that this mostly affects the top tiers of AW, but that's the entire point of AW seasons, being at the top. It's supposed to be a skill driven content. The fact that this game is different than other team games like World of Warcraft and Halo/CoD as you said is exactly right. Not everyone has to be present at the same time. You cant pilot another CoD, Halo or WoW account. You have to have a full team of skilled players.

    The fact not everyone needs to be present at the same time opens this huge way to cheat, you don't need a full alliance of skilled players. One person can play all 30 accounts of his alliance and all 30 accounts of multiple other alliances as well.
  • Options
    RiegelRiegel Posts: 1,088 ★★★★
    mutamatt wrote: »
    well, step 1 is that they acknowledge the issue. I would love to hear their thoughts on this.

    Thanks for your presence on this issue, you always help big issues gain traction.

    I do hope they directly address the issue.
    Hey All,

    You're right that the season is ending soon! But before we give out any rewards, we're going to take some time to ensure that no funny business took place before giving out all of the rewards. Our goal is to have them all out to you all by tomorrow, but this might change if there is any issues that arise.

    This seems like they are indirectly addressing the issue. I hope this is not the case. Knowing that this is happening for fact and seeing this statement leads me to that thought though. Much funny business took place, but all rewards went out.
  • Options
    RixobRixob Posts: 505 ★★
    All valid points. But what is the solution? I know Kabam reads these forums and probably gets ideas from us. We are complaining but we arent coming up with any ideas... lets hear it.
    Maybe they do have intentions on addressing it but are unsure how. I would love to hear others ideas.
  • Options
    RiegelRiegel Posts: 1,088 ★★★★
    Rixob wrote: »
    All valid points. But what is the solution? I know Kabam reads these forums and probably gets ideas from us. We are complaining but we arent coming up with any ideas... lets hear it.
    Maybe they do have intentions on addressing it but are unsure how. I would love to hear others ideas.

    I laid out ideas for the 2* wars and the new AW calculator in my OP. Both would need done in conjunction.

    Ideas for account sharing will have to come from Kabam I think. Like I said in my previous post I've played a mobile game that would ban you if you logged in from a vastly different location within "X" amount of hours. Does Kabam have this capability? IDK.

    In apps you can request that location services be turned on, but idk if this data is sent to Kabam. Could they make you link to Facebook and obtain location that way? Does game center record location? Is there a way to discover piloting for fact without location at all?

    I'm not familiar with many things only those inside Kabam would be familiar with regarding their coding structure. I do know that this is a huge problem for the integrity of the contest.
  • Options
    i think ideas are just a means of us all disagreeing with each other until kabam reaches out and says that they hear us and that they know piloting/collusion is cheating and an issue they want to address.

    If we push for anything it should be that they say that first.
  • Options
    i think logging in from different devices could 'flag' an account for review. Then that account and the alliance could be reviewed to see if the same device logged into other accounts. that seems like an easy fix
  • Options
    RiegelRiegel Posts: 1,088 ★★★★
    edited April 2018
    mutamatt wrote: »
    i think ideas are just a means of us all disagreeing with each other until kabam reaches out and says that they hear us and that they know piloting/collusion is cheating and an issue they want to address.

    If we push for anything it should be that they say that first.

    Unfortunately, I completely agree. I have a gold thread open now doing exactly that, disagreeing with each other.

    The only reason I keep posting is to raise visibility and maybe Kabam will feel they have to respond eventually. However, after over 8000 views and 600 comments still nothing.

    I don't know how to get Kabam to communicate anything. They have been so silent for so long.
  • Options
    RiegelRiegel Posts: 1,088 ★★★★
    Well I just got a response from Kabam Miike on the gold thread. Maybe they are feeling extra "talkative" today? Fingers crossed.
  • Options
    RiegelRiegel Posts: 1,088 ★★★★
    We've received an AW Seasons update.

    https://playcontestofchampions.com/v18-0-release-notes/
    "After a successful first season, we’re back with Alliance Wars Season 2! Several nodes have been overhauled in the Expert difficulty map to create more variety in encounters, as well as make defender placement decisions have more impact and value."

    Lots of exciting news, but nothing on the cheating that is currently affecting the integrity of the contest and AW Seasons. Time is running out. We may be stuck with another season of rampant cheating and collusion, but I hope this wont be the case.
  • Options
    weapon_xweapon_x Posts: 29
    Kabam is ignoring it so piloting will continue. Top rewards will go to top pilots in season 2, same as season 1, Everyone reading this knows exactly which alliances we’re all talking about.
  • Options
    RiegelRiegel Posts: 1,088 ★★★★
    weapon_x wrote: »
    Kabam is ignoring it so piloting will continue. Top rewards will go to top pilots in season 2, same as season 1, Everyone reading this knows exactly which alliances we’re all talking about.

    Could very well be. All we can do is keep bringing it up, and wait for Kabam to let us know one way or the other.

    1. Will they say, "piloting is legal in all forms, but don't message us if someone sells your champs etc?"
    2. Will they say, "we are going to be a lot more strict on these forms of cheating." (currently against TOS) and actually follow through?
    3. Will they acknowledge the problem and just say, "There's nothing we can do at this time."
    4. Will they stay silent.
    5. Some other option.
  • Options
    HulksmasshhHulksmasshh Posts: 742 ★★★
    From my understanding, account sharing can be something difficult to 100% prove and they'd rather not ban 1000 offenders than ban 1 false hit. And they take it on a case-by-case basis, there is no tool constantly scanning accounts for possible account sharing. So you would need to submit a ticket reporting them - something they could be flooded with.

    In the big picture, I think Kabam is looking for bigger fish to fry like account modders/botters. Those reports they might look into further and take quicker action. They might be overwhelmed with those as well - like guy with 4+ 5/65 5* champs. I think the sad truth is that AW seasons will continue to go on in the same way like last season. It is still very competetive for everyone - pilots are people too and make mistakes. There are plenty of master alliances who let you play your own account if you're skilled. The top 3-5 alliances have their own systems as you outlined quite accurately. In a game structure like this one, the top competitors will always find a way to manipulate the game to their best advantage - it is just the way it is.
  • Options
    VidikamonVidikamon Posts: 5
    Well, one way limit piloting would be to require a biometric at login time (face, fingerprint, etc.) So you would not be able to login if the live biometric captured doesn't match the biometric stored in your profile. That means sharing your account would be useless. Of course if the pilot is sitting next to you and borrows your device, it will not work. Nonetheless I think that would greatly diminish the issue.
  • Options
    thanks4playingthanks4playing Posts: 805 ★★★
    Excellent post and great comments, but we need some feedback from kabam.
  • Options
    RiegelRiegel Posts: 1,088 ★★★★
    Just saw a similar thread get closed down. The thread did violate forum rules, so it was removed for a reason.

    I do want to say that, so far we have not called anyone or any group/alliance out. This is important. Please do not call anyone or any alliance out by name (or any form). That will set us back from our goal of having uniquely skillful game and season in AW.

    What we are calling out is the loopholes in the system. ie: 2* wars, piloting, the AW Calculator, Other ways to find out who you are vs'ing, and other types of collusion. Many of these could be fixed.

    We need to stay focused on the issues, not the people causing the issues.

    So far so good people.
  • Options
    RiegelRiegel Posts: 1,088 ★★★★
    We are currently ~9 days away from the start of season 2. Many issues with season 1 have still not been addressed. Everything pretty much boils down to these two things:

    1. Piloting
    2. Collusion

    It would be great to have these addressed before May 2nd. This is an issue Kabam will have to take the lead on. Asking us to report individual cases will not help. There is no "good enough proof" we could send. This is something Kabam would have to crack down on together with us.
  • Options
    DTMelodicMetalDTMelodicMetal Posts: 2,785 ★★★★★
    Riegel wrote: »
    We are currently ~9 days away from the start of season 2. Many issues with season 1 have still not been addressed. Everything pretty much boils down to these two things:

    1. Piloting
    2. Collusion

    It would be great to have these addressed before May 2nd. This is an issue Kabam will have to take the lead on. Asking us to report individual cases will not help. There is no "good enough proof" we could send. This is something Kabam would have to crack down on together with us.

    Cudos for your meticulous and patient approach on this topic. Many players have commented that it is not easy to identify instances of piloting. I know someone with substantial experience in areas that deal with interpreting online and digital information. He's given keynote speeches at cyber security conferences, has publications in information technology/information security, and has been involved in competitions like CyberPatriot. According to him it is not difficult for companies determine a) precisely who accesses their online services, and b) what device people use to access their online services.

    The forum is filled with players commenting on this topic as if they understand what kind of procedures are needed to identify instances of players piloting accounts in alliance wars. The reality is that a select few if any actually do, and Kabam's continued silence on this topic gives a growing impression that AW piloting will not be addressed.
  • Options
    RiegelRiegel Posts: 1,088 ★★★★
    Riegel wrote: »
    We are currently ~9 days away from the start of season 2. Many issues with season 1 have still not been addressed. Everything pretty much boils down to these two things:

    1. Piloting
    2. Collusion

    It would be great to have these addressed before May 2nd. This is an issue Kabam will have to take the lead on. Asking us to report individual cases will not help. There is no "good enough proof" we could send. This is something Kabam would have to crack down on together with us.

    Cudos for your meticulous and patient approach on this topic.

    Thanks, it's the only way I have found that works.
    Many players have commented that it is not easy to identify instances of piloting.

    This is true. Actually identifying from within the game (as a player) that piloting is happening is impossible. Yes, you may see one by one movement, but thats's proof of nothing really. This is why it cannot fall to the player to report these cases.
    I know someone with substantial experience in areas that deal with interpreting online and digital information. He's given keynote speeches at cyber security conferences, has publications in information technology/information security, and has been involved in competitions like CyberPatriot. According to him it is not difficult for companies determine a) precisely who accesses their online services, and b) what device people use to access their online services.

    Correct, and you don't have to be a security expert to know it is possible to collect the necessary data. Many apps collect location data, phone data, etc.
    For example an account log in from an iPhone 8 being used in Vietnam at 6:pm PST vs an iPhone X being used in California at 6:10pm PST is a clear indication of account sharing.
    What information does Kabam collect? IDK, but they could collect this data if they don't already.
    The forum is filled with players commenting on this topic as if they understand what kind of procedures are needed to identify instances of players piloting accounts in alliance wars. The reality is that a select few if any actually do, and Kabam's continued silence on this topic gives a growing impression that AW piloting will not be addressed.

    Very true, it would be of great benefit for Kabam to tell us instead of letting our imaginations run wild. It could be that they are spending a lot of manpower to fix this issue, but their silence, to me, has always been their downfall. A simple reply that can inform us that they are taking this seriously, looking for offenders, and reassurance that offenders will be punished would go a long way. There would have to be follow through. The community would have to be able to see actions being taking against the biggest offenders.

    Silence leads us to think they might be intentionally avoiding punishing offenders as they may be big spenders. I hope this is not the case.

    Brian Grant commented on this very topic on his live stream, I will post the clip when it's available. He had some good insight.
  • Options
    RiegelRiegel Posts: 1,088 ★★★★
    edited April 2018
    Riegel wrote: »
    We are currently ~9 days away from the start of season 2. Many issues with season 1 have still not been addressed. Everything pretty much boils down to these two things:

    1. Piloting
    2. Collusion

    It would be great to have these addressed before May 2nd. This is an issue Kabam will have to take the lead on. Asking us to report individual cases will not help. There is no "good enough proof" we could send. This is something Kabam would have to crack down on together with us.

    Cudos for your meticulous and patient approach on this topic.

    Thanks, it's the only way I have found that works.
    Many players have commented that it is not easy to identify instances of piloting.

    This is true. Actually identifying from within the game (as a player) that piloting is happening is impossible. Yes, you may see one by one movement, but thats's proof of nothing really. This is why it cannot fall to the player to report these cases.
    I know someone with substantial experience in areas that deal with interpreting online and digital information. He's given keynote speeches at cyber security conferences, has publications in information technology/information security, and has been involved in competitions like CyberPatriot. According to him it is not difficult for companies determine a) precisely who accesses their online services, and b) what device people use to access their online services.

    Correct, and you don't have to be a security expert to know it is possible to collect the necessary data. Many apps collect location data, phone data, etc.
    For example an account log in from an iPhone 8 being used in Vietnam at 6:00 pm PST vs an iPhone X being used in California at 6:10 pm PST is a clear indication of account sharing.
    What information does Kabam collect? IDK, but they could collect this data if they don't already.
    The forum is filled with players commenting on this topic as if they understand what kind of procedures are needed to identify instances of players piloting accounts in alliance wars. The reality is that a select few if any actually do, and Kabam's continued silence on this topic gives a growing impression that AW piloting will not be addressed.

    Very true, it would be of great benefit for Kabam to tell us instead of letting our imaginations run wild. It could be that they are spending a lot of manpower to fix this issue, but their silence, to me, has always been their downfall. A simple reply that can inform us that they are taking this seriously, looking for offenders, and reassurance that offenders will be punished would go a long way. There would have to be follow through. The community would have to be able to see actions being taking against the biggest offenders.

    Silence leads us to think they might be intentionally avoiding punishing offenders as they may be big spenders. I hope this is not the case.

    Brian Grant commented on this very topic on his live stream, I will post the clip when it's available. He had some good insight.
  • Options
    gohard123gohard123 Posts: 1,014 ★★★
    Riegel wrote: »
    We are currently ~9 days away from the start of season 2. Many issues with season 1 have still not been addressed. Everything pretty much boils down to these two things:

    1. Piloting
    2. Collusion

    It would be great to have these addressed before May 2nd. This is an issue Kabam will have to take the lead on. Asking us to report individual cases will not help. There is no "good enough proof" we could send. This is something Kabam would have to crack down on together with us.

    You know what irks me the most? People who colluded constantly whine, whinge and complain incessantly when they are also part of the problem. Yeah that popular youtuber and his friend who complain all stream when they definitely cheated. Funny part was when they got caught out on reddit, they called the person a "conspiracy theorist" and that his "tinfoil hat" was wound too tight.
This discussion has been closed.