Compensation for Materials Used Under False Pretenses

I would like an explanation as to why players who used shards / rank up materials to hit the old Dungeon Prestige requirements have no recourse.

When the dungeon prestige gates were discovered Kabam Miike stated they were necessary to prevent players from getting too powerful of items. While I disagreed with the cutoff, I said fine I will reach the prestige needed. I used stones and 6* shards I didn’t want to use yet so I could grind the final milestone and receive all rewards.

The next day Kabam realizes they were getting a lot of pushback and changes course lowering the req significantly. This is poor communication at its finest. People who used materials to reach prestige levels should get the items returned. How would you like it if your boss said you need to buy a specific new computer to use at work then the day after you buy it say never mind you can use the old one?

I’ve reached out to support and DMd Kabam employees and gotten a bunch of vague replies that don’t come close to answering my question.

@Kabam Wolf @Kabam Miike @Ad0ra_

Comments

Sp3edD3m0n

I used sig stones that I was saving and did not want to use. But thankfully it wasn't anything drastic. 20 Generic 5 star stones got me there.

Hulk_Smells

Bad analogy:
1) Kabam is not, nor should they ever be your boss
2) You should never need to buy work equipment out of pocket or without getting reimbursed

Evangelionlovr

I looked at how much of a pain in the ass the dungeons milestones were to hit each day, and the fact that I would at best only get 2 5*s from some pretty **** pools and realized that it wasn't worth wasting my resources to rank champs that I never use just for their prestige.

Evangelionlovr

Glad I did.

RogerRabs

@Hulk_Smells Kabam doesn’t have to be your boss. That’s the point of making an analogy.

I notice you didn’t actually argue the substance of my comment. Just an uncessacary shot at an analogy. Which works by the way.

SuperFarz

Blehh blehhh community always asks for compensation. You chose to RANK your champion. Move on.

Kingsam

You don't need compensation. You should of been worrying about prestige all along.

RogerRabs

@Kingsam Why? I choose not to be in a alliance that goes for rank rewards in AQ. Prestige had no bearing on my gameplay until now.

@SuperFarz I’m not even asking for anything extra. Just return the items I used. Not that ridiculous of a request.

Hulk_Smells

You're right, I was not arguing your request, but your analogy is still wrong. Everyone else here will disagree with you. SuperFarz is right, you chose to rank up. And apparently you would choose to buy a new computer if your employer told you to. Not trying to attack you bro, but it does not work.

RogerRabs

@Hulk_Smells regardless of the analogy, I chose to use sig stones and open the crystal because of a requirment that was changed the following day. Changing the rules mid game is not a sound decision, especially when you just said the old rules were there for a good reason and wouldn’t change.

Considering there are posts agreeing with me, your claim that everyone else will disagree is off base.

DNA3000

RogerRabs wrote: »

@Hulk_Smells Kabam doesn’t have to be your boss. That’s the point of making an analogy.

I notice you didn’t actually argue the substance of my comment. Just an uncessacary shot at an analogy. Which works by the way.

I'm afraid the analogy doesn't work at all. The usefulness of an analogy is to compare one situation to another in which the core elements of the original situation are represented in the analogy in a simpler manner. Your analogy fails to represent the original situation in any meaningful way.

When your boss tells you to buy a new computer, you generally have no choice but to do so. Also, generally speaking most businesses compensate employees for mandatory purchases in the first place so you wouldn't be out of pocket. In every way, the analogized situation doesn't represent the situation with MCOC at all.

The prestige gate was an entirely optional gate. In this game, there is a presumption that reaching progress milestones will unlock better rewards, and that statement will always be true. It is also presumed that the pace at which you attempt to reach those milestones is entirely up to you, and at no time are you being forced to reach them quickly. Kabam didn't force you to expend more resources than you would want to in order to reach that prestige milestone, it only stated that the *opportunity* to achieve higher rewards was unlocked by achieving it. Kabam doesn't even guarantee higher rewards, only the potential to do so.

To repair your analogy, you'd have to consider the situation where your boss said that they were opening a new office in China, but only people who spoke Chinese would be allowed to transfer there. But the pay and benefits would be 30% higher for employees willing to relocate. So you decided to spend your own money learning Chinese. A month later, your boss tells you that the company changed their minds and decided not to open that office after all. Are you entitled to demand that the company pay you back for those language lessons because they "misrepresented" the situation to you?

I think most people would say no. That was your choice, based on the current information at hand, but the company made no commitment to you they are forced to honor if they change their minds.

Hulk_Smells

Lol thank you DNA. Hope he explained it well enough for you.

JRock808

A better analogy is a roller coaster. It says you must be "this tall to ride" and you are not.. So you go buy some platform shoes with goldfish in the soles to become tall enough. The next weekend you go back and the sign has been changed and now you only need to be "that tall" to ride, which you are without the shoes. The theme park owes you nothing, and if the store won't give you a refund for worn shoes.. it's all on you.

The whole situation sucks, dungeons are a fiasco and I feel for you but Kabam will Kabam.. you have to know this by now.

RogerRabs

@DNA3000 Fine, not the best analogy. But you are harping on it instead of my actual point. That particular analogy was more to point out the inherent unfairness in telling someone to do something one thing then changing your mind after they do it.

The event runs for a limited time with limited rewards. If you want to get certain ones (i.e. the 5* AG) then time was certainly a deciding factor.

Also personally, I'd at least ask to be compensated for Chinese lessons. If the company values you as an employee there is a good chance they'd comply. And if not, what's the harm in being told no.

Outsider75

RogerRabs wrote: »

I would like an explanation as to why players who used shards / rank up materials to hit the old Dungeon Prestige requirements have no recourse.

When the dungeon prestige gates were discovered Kabam Miike stated they were necessary to prevent players from getting too powerful of items. While I disagreed with the cutoff, I said fine I will reach the prestige needed. I used stones and 6* shards I didn’t want to use yet so I could grind the final milestone and receive all rewards.

The next day Kabam realizes they were getting a lot of pushback and changes course lowering the req significantly. This is poor communication at its finest. People who used materials to reach prestige levels should get the items returned. How would you like it if your boss said you need to buy a specific new computer to use at work then the day after you buy it say never mind you can use the old one?

I’ve reached out to support and DMd Kabam employees and gotten a bunch of vague replies that don’t come close to answering my question.

@Kabam Wolf @Kabam Miike @Ad0ra_

Damn son, Dungeon milestones were adjusted 2 days into the event. You coudln't just wait that long?

RogerRabs

@Outsider75 I personally didn't think Kabam would change them. They gave every indication they were there for a reason.

Also, I did quick math and realized you need every day/milestone for the the 3 5* crystals. The extra infinity dust also really adds up and could be the difference between gettting the 5* AG or not. And actually because I missed a day I might still be short on the 3rd crystal unless they change something.

DNA3000

RogerRabs wrote: »

@DNA3000 Fine, not the best analogy. But you are harping on it instead of my actual point. That particular analogy was more to point out the inherent unfairness in telling someone to do something one thing then changing your mind after they do it.

Actually, I did address that, directly. You're ironically complaining about me ignoring your point, when in fact you've apparently completely ignored mine.

No one told you to do anything. That's the error in your analogy, and it is there because of an error in your thinking. Kabam only made a statement about the state of the game at that moment in time, and that statement did not command you to do anything. It only implied there was an opportunity to earn more rewards for players that achieved a certain progress metric. They made no promise to you that would never change or tell you to spend resources to reach that metric ahead of when you ordinarily would have. Kabam is like the boss I mention above that only said people who speak Chinese would get a new opportunity. The boss didn't force you to learn Chinese, and made no promises to you about being guaranteed a reward for spending money to learn Chinese. You did that on your own, took the risk on your own, and bear the costs if that risk doesn't pan out.

It would be unfair if Kabam told you to do something and then changed their minds after you did it. Let me know when Kabam tells you to do something. Did Kabam tell you to spend resources on RoL? Did Kabam tell you to spend resources on LoL? Act 4? Act 5? The Collector? No. Those things contain rewards, and in some cases they also unlock opportunities for other rewards, like Uncollected status. But *you* choose how and when to tackle them, and how much resources if any to spend on them. If you do it today, you get rewards sooner. If you do it later, you get rewards later. That choice is entirely yours.

So far, the only thing Kabam has told me to do is not make quips about plane crashes.

RogerRabs

@DNA3000 I disagree with your general premise. It's a mobile game, there will never be anything necessary to play other than a valid email address. A game offers content and incentivizes players to complete it. Just because I wasn't forced to make the choice doesn't mean the consequences of their actions can be ignored. When the prestige gate was discovered and acknowledged, they knew players would push to get to it so they could unlock the milestones.

With your Chinese language analogy, you weren't guaranteed the promotion. If I hit the prestige milestone I was guaranteed to unlock the milestones. There was less implied risk. Also ROL, LOL and Story quests do not fit here. They are permanent features. These rewards are temporary and if you can't grind the milestones from day 1 you won't have access to them.

We clearly disagree with how they handled it, so I'll leave it at that. I understand no one forced me to hit the prestige gate, and that if I wanted the materials more than I wanted to unlock the new rewards I could have kept them. I also know I have a very slim chance of getting my materials back. I just find it a bit shady how they handled the communication and subsequent requirement change.

DNA3000

RogerRabs wrote: »

@DNA3000 I disagree with your general premise.

Unfortunately I can't take credit for that premise, as it is the premise for all multiplayer progressional games that I'm aware of, without exception.