**UPDATES TO ENLISTMENT GIFTING EVENT:**
To prevent exploitation, we will prevent new Accounts from being able to Gift enlistment crystals. We will also be taking action on those who are using 3rd Party Sellers, Bots and other farms to gift themselves mass amounts of Enlistment Crystals. Lastly, we will be adding an expiration timer to Enlistment Crystals. All unopened Enlistment Crystals will expire on Oct 18 @ 17:00 UTC. For more information, please see this post: https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/346104/updates-to-enlistment-gifting-event
To prevent exploitation, we will prevent new Accounts from being able to Gift enlistment crystals. We will also be taking action on those who are using 3rd Party Sellers, Bots and other farms to gift themselves mass amounts of Enlistment Crystals. Lastly, we will be adding an expiration timer to Enlistment Crystals. All unopened Enlistment Crystals will expire on Oct 18 @ 17:00 UTC. For more information, please see this post: https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/346104/updates-to-enlistment-gifting-event
Comments
Revs are rare. We all know that. That's the whole reason people were using the exploit. It's not some arbitrary debate on farming. Farming is farming when the Resource is meant to be farmed. When they sell Revs for 40 Units a pop and include them in Events as a Milestone, it's pretty apparent they're not meant to be farmed for a few Energy. Bottom line is, people knew what they were doing and expected to get away with it because it was "by design".
@Kabam Miike @Kabam Wolf @Kabam Vydious please clarify on this
Nobody in this thread is complaining about the revives being removed. Got it? Okay, we can return to the real discussion.
The real discussion was triggered by the recent issue. However, I addressed the topic in my comment. Invaluable Items aren't meant to be farmed in any kind of infinite, easy way. Even the Halls of Healing have limitations. Items are usually randomly dropped. What people discovered was something that was intended to help newer Players as they start out, not to be a never-ending source of Revs which, for all intents and purposes, are meant to be purchased or earned organically. The real shame is it ended up costing those Players starting out who may have needed them. Acceptable farming has to take into account the value of what is being farmed, and the effort it takes to farm it. When it becomes unacceptable is when it bypasses the intrinsic value of the Resources. Even Events like Halls of Healing are limited. Farming Energy Refills is hit-or-miss because they randomly proc.
The issue is the speed with which, once again, Kabam can change something that benefits the player base, compared to issues that adversely affect players.
People tend to see conspiracies and assume the worst, even where it is unfounded. Kabam's dealing with issues, once again, just fuels this rather than working with players to make the game better.
This is exactly on point... why let us be able to do re-run of paths of farming for items - whatever is more desired for the person - wether it’s for iso, potions, energy, revive etc etc is considered an exploit..?
I thought re-runs were allowed for farming items- if this isn’t the case, what paths can we re-run without labelling us as exploiting as there no checks and boundaries I.e closing off a path once complete..?
Kabam Please make it clear what we can re-run and what we cannot as this will affect completion in events also.
Thanks
What, in your opinion, was it meant for? What is earning something organically? Is that like running a quest and getting a reward for it? Or is there something special about this quest?
Not trying to attack. But I don’t think your logic holds.
Dr. Zola
But it should be noted that there was a thread on this and the mods did what appears to be par for the course these days: swooped in and deleted without addressing the issues raised therein. And here we are today.
Dr. Zola
Then it's flawed game design, not an exploit.
The question boils down to what are acceptable ways to acquire resources.
@Kabam Miike @Kabam Vydious
Can't say I completely agree with you on the "exploit" part. Your "exploit" may be someone else's "cleverness." Exploit suggests a violation of the ToS. Hard to see how that is the case when you simply play the game before you.
In the history of gaming, players are always looking for ways to secure resources and complete content. To many, Scarlet Witch pre-12.0 was an exploit; Blade post-12.0 is one to many now. But players are not responsible for content. The game team is. This was brought up plain and simple on these forums right after the community noticed it, and the team sat on it for 2-3 days before noting it was placed there to help Summoners in Act 1 and tarring a broad swath of its customers.
Dr. Zola
Those thoughts don't just naturally form. They're created by the relationship between kabam's spokespeople and the players. They're created by the responses we get. They're created specifically by the response we got this time... Berating us, backhandedly chiding us, a foreboding "at this time" clause to the statement about no action against the players. It's a looming threat. It's a ridiculous situation. "whoops. We rly didn't mean for that to be there 100% of the time. We're gonna fix that" was all that needed to be said.
There's a severe lack of customer appreciation/professionalism/people skills being highlighted. Take it out of the quest. No sane player will care that much. But be respectful of the ones who play this game instead of treating them like a nuisance at best. Modding a forum is a thankless job that'll drive you crazy. Anyone in customer service of any type should know that. You still don't catch a pass for calling everyone who ate two bowls of chips at a Mexican restaurant thieves. That'd be unacceptable. Idk. Just feels like some people in particular need to take a breath and get a little perspective on things.
Got it. Then we are pretty close on this one. As I would have expected.
Dr. Zola
Nah. We (you too) must be too far removed from the early playing years. I remember revives showing up often in those chapters. I need them at that time too. As far as intent? They are intended to revive which is what I assume they were used for yes? No exploit here. Everyone farms whatever they can. i used to farm t3cc to sell for t4cc until I could 5/50 my first 4*. No exploit. Kabam just doesn't like it. That's different.
For the record, most of them were level 1 revives anyways, not the 40 unit level 2 revives. Although occasionally you'd get one.
The rate at which you could acquire those revives by spamming that quest was unintentional, as directly stated by kabam. That makes it an exploit.
Is it a game design flaw? Of course it is. Taking advantage of a design flaw is precisely what an exploit is... Was it wrong to take advantage of this design flaw? Well that is debatable and definitely a gray area. Obviously kabam doesn't think it was wrong enough to merit punishment in this case but in other cases they have.
By calling an item claiming on a map an exploit it essentially labeled everyone that claimed it outside of a one time pass through a cheater. If an item is not meant to be claimed multiple times, then remove it from the map once it has been claimed.
"At this time, we have decided not to take any action against Summoners that may have taken advantage of this Quest."
This statement in the announcements means that they could have punished us for claiming it again outside of the one time pass through, AND since the decision to not punish may not be final, but just what they had decided for the moment.
They refuse to say...
If we can or can not run act 1.1.1 over and over again for Vanquishing blows as it was not intended to do that.
Or running a different path on another map to collect health pots is ok...
Or if running Monthly EQ or another map over and over to gain points for Completion events is considered an exploit.
Right now what we are left with is a giant question mark of what Kabam will use to label us as cheaters and punish us because of their game design and rewards system.
Based on the leap that claiming the revive was an exploit, then isn't also re-running daily cat quests beyond the one time pass through to get either cat shards or entire cats over and over again also then an exploit, and if you have run them multiple times beyond one pass a day, then you are taking advantage of the system.
We simply don't know now...
Had Kabam simply said something more like:
"We never intended for more advanced players to farm the revives off 1.1.5, and therefore we have removed it and replaced it with a different item."
And left the statement at that, we wouldn't be having this conversation.
Unintentional after the fact. It was NOT unintentional that they put it there! Same as potions on ROL WS. Very very intentional. They just didn't "intend" for people to keep farming them for game use? Why did they not anticipate this again?
It's like they don't know what farming is in a game or something.
Someone else already posted this, but every aspect of that "exploit" was intended game content by Kabam. They just didn't like what people were using that content for. That is not the same. Even then players would have to assume they know every intent. Kabam is bad at communicating, I'm afraid, and this is no exception.
In fact, more often than not, in game descriptions are so vague on purpose and create a TON of forum content on "What does this ability mean exactly"? Why is their "intent" any different? It isn't. I think they like the drama!
“Had Kabam simply said something more like:
"We never intended for more advanced players to farm the revives off 1.1.5, and therefore we have removed it and replaced it with a different item"
We wouldn't be having this conversation.”
I like this.
One thing lost in all of this discussion is the role Item Caps and item expiration plays in all of this. Don’t need to look for ways to farm revives if you have a full plate of them and they don’t go bad.
Dr. Zola
It is definitely exactly the same. They obviously did not intend for the outcome of farming endless revives. It's so obvious one would have to be disingenuous to not see that.
Again, for the 1000th time, kabam does have culpability here, a lot. A lot more than the players do. But the players who exploited this quest knew full well this was unintentional, and they have some culpability too.
I personally don't have any issue with kabam's statement. I think it was 100% accurate.
You probably won't get a statement on this. but I'd rather them line out a way for us to know exactly what bracket we are in, and what our prestige is.
I'm with you on that
Basically if kabam says you're cheating, then you're cheating.
Direct quote from ToS:
So The question is: What is the intended purpose? Well only the game team can answer that question. In some cases it's obvious, but in other cases, like yours with refills, it is much less obvious.