The funniest part is that people are upset about the idea of competitiveness like they were on the cusp of breaking into the top 10% if it wasn't for those deals yesterday. Play your position and have your fun without being so covetous of what others have. I don't enjoy my things any less because someone might have better ones.
I'm in the rank 2 alliance in the game. I still believe the gap between F2P and P2P is too large.
So when you're in Rank 1 then the game will be working properly?
The game has always been built on a spending-optional model. Those who want to play free can play free, those who want to spend can spend. There are many examples of F2P Players out there keeping up, but nothing says there has to be a head-to-head progression. It entirely depends on how much effort, how long you've been playing, how much you have to spend, what's available, etc. Spending saves time. Sometimes it saves a great deal of time, for a significant amount of money. If people have it, that's up to them. If someone can afford a yacht, I don't hold it against them when I have to build a canoe from scratch. It's not their fault I'll reach the other side slower. Besides, people who pay make the game possible, certainly in part. If they have it to spend, let them. As much as the game is a game, it's also a business that needs to stay open.
The funniest part is that people are upset about the idea of competitiveness like they were on the cusp of breaking into the top 10% if it wasn't for those deals yesterday. Play your position and have your fun without being so covetous of what others have. I don't enjoy my things any less because someone might have better ones.
I'm in the rank 2 alliance in the game. I still believe the gap between F2P and P2P is too large.
So when you're in Rank 1 then the game will be working properly?
What does that even mean?
I never said the game wasn't working properly.
Love the 4th grad arguments though
Fortnite is a F2P game that has consistently been in the top 3 high grossing games on all platforms, without selling a single thing that gives any single player a direct advantage over other players.
My point is that you can make a mint off a game without screwing over your player base and creating an environment that nurtures F2P vs P2W animosity.
Anyone defending Kabam because "they have to make money" is being pretty shortsighted with how Kabam has decided to make money... and that's by pitting the player base against each other.
Are these games even slightly similar in play style? MCOC is like Pokemon. It's all about collecting the new and best champs. The only way to entice people to pay for things is to sell them champs and ways to upgrade them.
Fortnite is a game that people play vs each other in real time while trash talking. They sell things that allow them to have more fun while playing against each other, like clothes, taunts, etc (just assuming it's the usual **** those types of games sell you). They have the High School mentality where the players taunt people who don't have on the newest 'gear', so that people go and spend money or grind to get these items and not look like a scrub.
If anything, Fortnite's available purchases are more insulting as they don't actually do anything, even if you think that's better since you can't pay to win. Different mindsets.
I didn't say that the games are similar.
I implied that there are tons of creative ways to make money from games without giving P2W players a clear advantage over F2P.
Thanks for proving my point about being shortsighted, though.
LOL, and you're far sighted I guess? Please present their viable alternative for this type of game or just stop.
This isn't even a pure P2W system. They sold lottery tickets that paid fake prizes for real money. Get over it.
OK.
How about instead of creating multiple different champions of the same character (Thor, Spidey, Daredevil, Vision, Ultron, etc, etc, ad nauseum), they create one base champ and then they sell skins so you can change the costume of your champ. Instead of two nearly identical Daredevils, you have one... with a classic costume, a Netflix costume, and even a vintage yellow and red costume.
Um, let's see...
They could sell theme kits that allow you to pick your own avatar and change the look of your game to a Spider-Man theme or a Blade theme, etc.
What else...
They could also give you only two arena backgrounds as a default, and then allow you to purchase more... this would be especially nice if you were a hardcore arena grinder, so you weren't staring at the same backgrounds all the time.
Ummmm...
They could sell custom fight ending animations that you could use during war, so if your defense kills an attacker, they do cool taunts and other stuff to annoy the opposing team.
OH!
Another cool one would be to have a subscription service that would give you access to things like fight stats (specific stats for each champ, like how many fights you've won or lost with a champ or how many times you use a special 1 vs. a special 3, or how many historic kills you've had with a defender). You could also save multiple mastery setups and even save multiple specific questing teams that you like to use.
I'm not even a game developer and it took me three minutes to come up with those.
Like I said... shortsighted.
Honestly... None of those things appeal to me outside of mastery setups. And you are far from the first to mention that. Also the things you mention don't even help with progression. It's just window dressing. Yet you started out like you're looking for free stuff to actually help you progress and keep up with the big boys.
Dude, that was my POINT.
Things that you pay money for that help you progress faster in the game SHOULD HAVE NEVER BEEN FOR SALE IN THE FIRST PLACE.
That's the topic of this thread... how P2W is ruining the game and how people are saying that Kabam has to make money. I'm simply saying there are MANY other ways Kabam could've made money from this game that doesn't have to do with paying for progression.
But why not? Nobody wants window dressing, let alone paying for it. I don't understand why you feel entitled to run with the biggest dogs just because you put in the time. The suggestions you have to make money are things the masses don't really want. Great and wonderful it balances things in your eyes, but does it really? The big spenders aren't going to pay for things that don't help them progress. If they're not spending, kabam isn't making money and putting more effort to new content and so on. I spend once in a while, and it's only little things and things that help me advance since I don't have the time that you do.
So why would they create things to spend on that won't make them nearly the amount of money they would make it the way they're doing it now?
It just ends up sounding like all the other complaint threads. Just dismiss the top 5% and play from there. If you don't like a way a company is being run, dont use their product. Leave negative reviews, uninstall and find something else to play or occupy your time.
Some people just see that others have what you don't and feel like they are entitled to the same thing just because they put in the time. If only that's how the world always worked.
Pay to win isn't really the right term. Pay to win the highest rewards is more the right term. It's not kabam's fault you don't find value in winning the minor final.
The funniest part is that people are upset about the idea of competitiveness like they were on the cusp of breaking into the top 10% if it wasn't for those deals yesterday. Play your position and have your fun without being so covetous of what others have. I don't enjoy my things any less because someone might have better ones.
I'm in the rank 2 alliance in the game. I still believe the gap between F2P and P2P is too large.
So when you're in Rank 1 then the game will be working properly?
What does that even mean?
I never said the game wasn't working properly.
Love the 4th grad arguments though
You're saying the gap between free to play and pay to play is too large, even though you're in the #2 alliance, correct? So I'm asking at what point is the gap no longer too large; when you're in the #1 alliance? I'm implying that you're actually just upset that you're not #1 and never will be because you don't want to spend for it. That's the meat of the joke. You're welcome for making me chew that for you and spit it in your mouth mama bird style.
To be perfectly honest I’m surprised it isn’t more pay to win than it is, they could be selling way more t5b and the big spenders will gobble all of that up. The balance isn’t as lopsided as you are claiming but certainly your not going to be able to compete in the heavyweight division without spending in mcoc.
The funniest part is that people are upset about the idea of competitiveness like they were on the cusp of breaking into the top 10% if it wasn't for those deals yesterday. Play your position and have your fun without being so covetous of what others have. I don't enjoy my things any less because someone might have better ones.
I'm in the rank 2 alliance in the game. I still believe the gap between F2P and P2P is too large.
So when you're in Rank 1 then the game will be working properly?
What does that even mean?
I never said the game wasn't working properly.
Love the 4th grad arguments though
You're saying the gap between free to play and pay to play is too large, even though you're in the #2 alliance, correct? So I'm asking at what point is the gap no longer too large; when you're in the #1 alliance? I'm implying that you're actually just upset that you're not #1 and never will be because you don't want to spend for it. That's the meat of the joke. You're welcome for making me chew that for you and spit it in your mouth mama bird style.
The funniest part is that people are upset about the idea of competitiveness like they were on the cusp of breaking into the top 10% if it wasn't for those deals yesterday. Play your position and have your fun without being so covetous of what others have. I don't enjoy my things any less because someone might have better ones.
As being very wrong. Which it is. I am proud of my position in war. The deals have nothing to do with me being in the #1 alliance vs. the #2 alliance. That comment tells me you don't really know how this game works, but that's ok.
Then, you made a comment about having to be in the #1 alliance which made no sense lol. Please don't speak for me I'm not upset I'm not in the #1 alliance, and don't pretend you know I never will be because my alliance could very well rank 1 this next season. I bought the deals btw, so you made a wrong assumption about that too. lol
When you make arguments based on attacks, assumptions, and voodoo predictions the arguments fall apart real fast
The funniest part is that people are upset about the idea of competitiveness like they were on the cusp of breaking into the top 10% if it wasn't for those deals yesterday. Play your position and have your fun without being so covetous of what others have. I don't enjoy my things any less because someone might have better ones.
I'm in the rank 2 alliance in the game. I still believe the gap between F2P and P2P is too large.
So when you're in Rank 1 then the game will be working properly?
What does that even mean?
I never said the game wasn't working properly.
Love the 4th grad arguments though
You're saying the gap between free to play and pay to play is too large, even though you're in the #2 alliance, correct? So I'm asking at what point is the gap no longer too large; when you're in the #1 alliance? I'm implying that you're actually just upset that you're not #1 and never will be because you don't want to spend for it. That's the meat of the joke. You're welcome for making me chew that for you and spit it in your mouth mama bird style.
The funniest part is that people are upset about the idea of competitiveness like they were on the cusp of breaking into the top 10% if it wasn't for those deals yesterday. Play your position and have your fun without being so covetous of what others have. I don't enjoy my things any less because someone might have better ones.
As being very wrong. Which it is. I am proud of my position in war. The deals have nothing to do with me being in the #1 alliance vs. the #2 alliance. That comment tells me you don't really know how this game works, but that's ok.
Then, you made a comment about having to be in the #1 alliance which made no sense lol. Please don't speak for me I'm not upset I'm not in the #1 alliance, and don't pretend you know I never will be because my alliance could very well rank 1 this next season. I bought the deals btw, so you made a wrong assumption about that too. lol
When you make arguments based on attacks, assumptions, and voodoo predictions the arguments fall apart real fast
Please never spit in anyone's mouth.
Again...it was a joke. Enjoy the feelings you're catching over it.
The funniest part is that people are upset about the idea of competitiveness like they were on the cusp of breaking into the top 10% if it wasn't for those deals yesterday. Play your position and have your fun without being so covetous of what others have. I don't enjoy my things any less because someone might have better ones.
I'm in the rank 2 alliance in the game. I still believe the gap between F2P and P2P is too large.
So when you're in Rank 1 then the game will be working properly?
What does that even mean?
I never said the game wasn't working properly.
Love the 4th grad arguments though
You're saying the gap between free to play and pay to play is too large, even though you're in the #2 alliance, correct? So I'm asking at what point is the gap no longer too large; when you're in the #1 alliance? I'm implying that you're actually just upset that you're not #1 and never will be because you don't want to spend for it. That's the meat of the joke. You're welcome for making me chew that for you and spit it in your mouth mama bird style.
The funniest part is that people are upset about the idea of competitiveness like they were on the cusp of breaking into the top 10% if it wasn't for those deals yesterday. Play your position and have your fun without being so covetous of what others have. I don't enjoy my things any less because someone might have better ones.
As being very wrong. Which it is. I am proud of my position in war. The deals have nothing to do with me being in the #1 alliance vs. the #2 alliance. That comment tells me you don't really know how this game works, but that's ok.
Then, you made a comment about having to be in the #1 alliance which made no sense lol. Please don't speak for me I'm not upset I'm not in the #1 alliance, and don't pretend you know I never will be because my alliance could very well rank 1 this next season. I bought the deals btw, so you made a wrong assumption about that too. lol
When you make arguments based on attacks, assumptions, and voodoo predictions the arguments fall apart real fast
Please never spit in anyone's mouth.
Again...it was a joke. Enjoy the feelings you're catching over it.
Ok to make things clear, I'm not referring to ALL F2P players not being competitive.
I see a difference between someone who invests tons of hours and effort with someone who doesn't play that much even if they're both F2P. Why would anyone expect someone who doesn't play much to keep up with progress and be competitive right?
In fact people that spend some money (but can't buy all the valuable offers) and invest tons of hours and effort into the game still fall into the same category as hardcore F2P, kinda.
And then there are the big spenders (whales) who just buy their way and not investing as many hours and effort into playing. And that's fine too actually. What's not good and throws a lot of imbalance is the recent huge gap with the upgrade materials that will come in effect and very soon it will be noticeable.
I'm well aware that Kabam is a business that wants to keep making money, that's how businesses work. But they already do make so much money from the crystals alone (not to mention their other income ways), why do they have to give such an unfair disadvantage with the upgrade materials limiting the competitive nature of the game with a huge gap?
Someone mentioned the well known F2P YouTuber who's in a top 10 alliance. Yes he's already established there with a lot of effort and skills. But he also admitted that there's going to be a gap with those that can purchase all those valuable upgrade materials (t5b with t2as). You can often hear him saying that if he's not able to raise his prestige then it's going to hurt his alliance. The main point is what can the people outside of the top alliances do if they want to be competitive too?
My point of view may be completely wrong to a big portion of other players and all I have written may be wrong.
By reading other posts and threads too I can quickly recap some different opinions about F2P players:
1) They are not allowed to be competitive because they don't pay.
2) They shouldn't complain about anything or express any opinions about the game because they don't pay.
3) In the end, they have no place in the community if they shouldn't ask for any kind of improvements because they don't pay.
4) They don't have any kind of impact in the game and whether they play or not, nothing will ever change because they don't spend money.
We can all agree to 1 thing at least, that the competitiveness is very limited and is coming to an end soon.
I'm not even a game developer and it took me three minutes to come up with those.
It took me less time to conclude all those options are likely to fail.
You can't just add cosmetics to a game and call it a day. In some games players spend tons of money on those cosmetic items and in other games players call them rip offs and refuse to spend on them. The game's design and its monetization system have to be designed from the beginning to prioritize micro transaction customization, or evolve towards that organically, for that to work.
People look at the most successful games and assume you can pick out individual elements from those games and they'll work the same way in other games. But rarely is that true, and game developers that attempt to do that tend to fail. And people also forget that the most successful games embody supreme survivor bias. A game like Fortnite is a success not because of the list of features it has, but because it has the right combination of features in the right game. A game that implements 85% of those features is just as likely to crash and burn as it is to succeed. A game that implements 95% of those features is still not guaranteed to succeed.
It is easy to think up things to sell. The game industry is littered with failed games that thought up great things to sell, because the hard part is convincing people to buy them.
Tbh the whole point is moot here. Any decent company knows that a good game is made by BOTH p2p and f2p.
-P2p bring numbers as money income.
-F2p bring numbers as in players.
None of the sides can exist without the other. We need "whales" in order to let Kabam monetize, and we need f2ps in order for the game to be populated.
Take away whales and you lose income, hence the means to maintain the game up.
Take away the f2ps, and the game is about 300 dudes in 10 allies playing between themselves, whale vs whale, all at same prestige, level, without anyone to trash, fight, banter on, and showoff to.
And that's true for every game when pay2win is present.
Why then, other games have not these many problems compared to Mcoc? The answer is pretty easy:
- CONTENT DIFFERENTIATION -
Every game made of smart choiches divides its content in sections. There ll be (A)sections where Whales will have the upper hand given they spend for faster progression, there'll be (B)content where Whales will clear easily and f2ps will clear the same, less easily, and then there'll be (C)content where faster progression will still be an advantage, but can be overcome with personal skills.
(A) AQ
(B) Story/Events mode
(C) AW
that was the perfect balance. Which is being utterly broken. There has to be sections where you can't buy top positions and sections where you can. So that both sides, both cores of the community which make a game alive cohexist, and where everyone has its personal space and chanche to shine.
And THIS, imho, is where the game need to step up and away from being a Slot Machine and became a real game. It's possible, so do so.
Ok to make things clear, I'm not referring to ALL F2P players not being competitive.
I see a difference between someone who invests tons of hours and effort with someone who doesn't play that much even if they're both F2P. Why would anyone expect someone who doesn't play much to keep up with progress and be competitive right?
In fact people that spend some money (but can't buy all the valuable offers) and invest tons of hours and effort into the game still fall into the same category as hardcore F2P, kinda.
And then there are the big spenders (whales) who just buy their way and not investing as many hours and effort into playing. And that's fine too actually. What's not good and throws a lot of imbalance is the recent huge gap with the upgrade materials that will come in effect and very soon it will be noticeable.
I'm well aware that Kabam is a business that wants to keep making money, that's how businesses work. But they already do make so much money from the crystals alone (not to mention their other income ways), why do they have to give such an unfair disadvantage with the upgrade materials limiting the competitive nature of the game with a huge gap?
Someone mentioned the well known F2P YouTuber who's in a top 10 alliance. Yes he's already established there with a lot of effort and skills. But he also admitted that there's going to be a gap with those that can purchase all those valuable upgrade materials (t5b with t2as). You can often hear him saying that if he's not able to raise his prestige then it's going to hurt his alliance. The main point is what can the people outside of the top alliances do if they want to be competitive too?
My point of view may be completely wrong to a big portion of other players and all I have written may be wrong.
By reading other posts and threads too I can quickly recap some different opinions about F2P players:
1) They are not allowed to be competitive because they don't pay.
2) They shouldn't complain about anything or express any opinions about the game because they don't pay.
3) In the end, they have no place in the community if they shouldn't ask for any kind of improvements because they don't pay.
4) They don't have any kind of impact in the game and whether they play or not, nothing will ever change because they don't spend money.
We can all agree to 1 thing at least, that the competitiveness is very limited and is coming to an end soon.
I think only the 1st one of those is true. The rest are more of your personal feelings because people aren't supporting your thread.
Yes, it will be harder to compete with people who spend money if you do not do so. Probably impossible. That's life. No matter how talented you are naturally, the kid that got to buy his way into the best schools, or get the best training, is going to have a huge advantage over you which probably isn't fair. I just don't get what you expect to be done about it other than not giving anyone anything.
Fortnite is a F2P game that has consistently been in the top 3 high grossing games on all platforms, without selling a single thing that gives any single player a direct advantage over other players.
My point is that you can make a mint off a game without screwing over your player base and creating an environment that nurtures F2P vs P2W animosity.
Anyone defending Kabam because "they have to make money" is being pretty shortsighted with how Kabam has decided to make money... and that's by pitting the player base against each other.
Are these games even slightly similar in play style? MCOC is like Pokemon. It's all about collecting the new and best champs. The only way to entice people to pay for things is to sell them champs and ways to upgrade them.
Fortnite is a game that people play vs each other in real time while trash talking. They sell things that allow them to have more fun while playing against each other, like clothes, taunts, etc (just assuming it's the usual **** those types of games sell you). They have the High School mentality where the players taunt people who don't have on the newest 'gear', so that people go and spend money or grind to get these items and not look like a scrub.
If anything, Fortnite's available purchases are more insulting as they don't actually do anything, even if you think that's better since you can't pay to win. Different mindsets.
I didn't say that the games are similar.
I implied that there are tons of creative ways to make money from games without giving P2W players a clear advantage over F2P.
Thanks for proving my point about being shortsighted, though.
LOL, and you're far sighted I guess? Please present their viable alternative for this type of game or just stop.
This isn't even a pure P2W system. They sold lottery tickets that paid fake prizes for real money. Get over it.
OK.
How about instead of creating multiple different champions of the same character (Thor, Spidey, Daredevil, Vision, Ultron, etc, etc, ad nauseum), they create one base champ and then they sell skins so you can change the costume of your champ. Instead of two nearly identical Daredevils, you have one... with a classic costume, a Netflix costume, and even a vintage yellow and red costume.
Um, let's see...
They could sell theme kits that allow you to pick your own avatar and change the look of your game to a Spider-Man theme or a Blade theme, etc.
What else...
They could also give you only two arena backgrounds as a default, and then allow you to purchase more... this would be especially nice if you were a hardcore arena grinder, so you weren't staring at the same backgrounds all the time.
Ummmm...
They could sell custom fight ending animations that you could use during war, so if your defense kills an attacker, they do cool taunts and other stuff to annoy the opposing team.
OH!
Another cool one would be to have a subscription service that would give you access to things like fight stats (specific stats for each champ, like how many fights you've won or lost with a champ or how many times you use a special 1 vs. a special 3, or how many historic kills you've had with a defender). You could also save multiple mastery setups and even save multiple specific questing teams that you like to use.
I'm not even a game developer and it took me three minutes to come up with those.
It is very simple. A game can’t exist if everyone is F2P. Those that ‘pay’ for the game to exist should be rewarded over freeloaders. Nothing wrong with not paying, but you shouldn’t expect to progress nearly as fast.
Why then, other games have not these many problems compared to Mcoc? The answer is pretty easy:
- CONTENT DIFFERENTIATION -
Every game made of smart choiches divides its content in sections. There ll be (A)sections where Whales will have the upper hand given they spend for faster progression, there'll be (B)content where Whales will clear easily and f2ps will clear the same, less easily, and then there'll be (C)content where faster progression will still be an advantage, but can be overcome with personal skills.
(A) AQ
(B) Story/Events mode
(C) AW
that was the perfect balance.
This seems like rewriting history to me. I've never seen a single moment in time when I've been playing this game where a significant percentage of the people commenting on the game expressed this belief as occurring in the present. It has always been something that was happening in the past, but apparently no one was noticing at the time.
Why then, other games have not these many problems compared to Mcoc? The answer is pretty easy:
- CONTENT DIFFERENTIATION -
Every game made of smart choiches divides its content in sections. There ll be (A)sections where Whales will have the upper hand given they spend for faster progression, there'll be (B)content where Whales will clear easily and f2ps will clear the same, less easily, and then there'll be (C)content where faster progression will still be an advantage, but can be overcome with personal skills.
(A) AQ
(B) Story/Events mode
(C) AW
that was the perfect balance.
This seems like rewriting history to me. I've never seen a single moment in time when I've been playing this game where a significant percentage of the people commenting on the game expressed this belief as occurring in the present. It has always been something that was happening in the past, but apparently no one was noticing at the time.
That isn't much back in the past, amof season 2 was the only moment when skills finally seemed to be mattering before the abrupt comeback on the spend some more tune. Not saying it was "perfect" - should have used " " in last post too -, but it was going in the right direction.
I've been struggling with the competitiveness gap as well. The top 20 in AW and AQ will advance at a far greater rate than anyone else and the top 3 in AW even more so. And of course, big spenders will always have an advantage.
Here is the cold hard truth - in just about anything - skill, money and working hard will make you progress in life and in this game. Many of the most skilled players will be in the top 20 alliances and they will get the best rewards. The people who spend money will buy deals to advance their accounts. And the grinders will get either more 5 star champs, more 5* and 6* shards and have a greater chance at getting the best champs. And if you are skilled, spend and grind - then you will advance even further and faster. That is the reality of it.
But in the end, I realized that it doesn't matter unless you decide that it does. Why do the rest of us have to chase the carrot instead of just playing the game the way we want? So what if other players advance faster and further than you. Why not just enjoy it at your own pace?
Fortnite is a F2P game that has consistently been in the top 3 high grossing games on all platforms, without selling a single thing that gives any single player a direct advantage over other players.
My point is that you can make a mint off a game without screwing over your player base and creating an environment that nurtures F2P vs P2W animosity.
Anyone defending Kabam because "they have to make money" is being pretty shortsighted with how Kabam has decided to make money... and that's by pitting the player base against each other.
Are these games even slightly similar in play style? MCOC is like Pokemon. It's all about collecting the new and best champs. The only way to entice people to pay for things is to sell them champs and ways to upgrade them.
Fortnite is a game that people play vs each other in real time while trash talking. They sell things that allow them to have more fun while playing against each other, like clothes, taunts, etc (just assuming it's the usual **** those types of games sell you). They have the High School mentality where the players taunt people who don't have on the newest 'gear', so that people go and spend money or grind to get these items and not look like a scrub.
If anything, Fortnite's available purchases are more insulting as they don't actually do anything, even if you think that's better since you can't pay to win. Different mindsets.
I didn't say that the games are similar.
I implied that there are tons of creative ways to make money from games without giving P2W players a clear advantage over F2P.
Thanks for proving my point about being shortsighted, though.
LOL, and you're far sighted I guess? Please present their viable alternative for this type of game or just stop.
This isn't even a pure P2W system. They sold lottery tickets that paid fake prizes for real money. Get over it.
OK.
How about instead of creating multiple different champions of the same character (Thor, Spidey, Daredevil, Vision, Ultron, etc, etc, ad nauseum), they create one base champ and then they sell skins so you can change the costume of your champ. Instead of two nearly identical Daredevils, you have one... with a classic costume, a Netflix costume, and even a vintage yellow and red costume.
Um, let's see...
They could sell theme kits that allow you to pick your own avatar and change the look of your game to a Spider-Man theme or a Blade theme, etc.
What else...
They could also give you only two arena backgrounds as a default, and then allow you to purchase more... this would be especially nice if you were a hardcore arena grinder, so you weren't staring at the same backgrounds all the time.
Ummmm...
They could sell custom fight ending animations that you could use during war, so if your defense kills an attacker, they do cool taunts and other stuff to annoy the opposing team.
OH!
Another cool one would be to have a subscription service that would give you access to things like fight stats (specific stats for each champ, like how many fights you've won or lost with a champ or how many times you use a special 1 vs. a special 3, or how many historic kills you've had with a defender). You could also save multiple mastery setups and even save multiple specific questing teams that you like to use.
I'm not even a game developer and it took me three minutes to come up with those.
Like I said... shortsighted.
I wouldn't buy any of those.
Neither would I, but there are many successful games that prove that many people would if it's done well and implemented from the beginning.
I'm not sure what interesting thing this says though, because there are many successful games that prove many people have no problem with the monetization mechanics in MCOC also, if it is "done well."
If MCOC was done differently from the start, then of course it would be a different game. It would have different problems than the ones it has now. But on top of all that, it is also possible it would no longer exist, because most games fail. The fact that MCOC exists now with a large and relatively healthy player base already makes its implementation a top 1% game implementation, warts and all. It isn't easy to improve on that, and the risks associated with trying are primarily associated with being one of the other 99% that disappear before reaching three years or millions of players.
OP, I understand where your coming from but might I add a few points to consider?
I’ve been playing the game as long as you have, I’ve done my very best to be a F2P... in the beginning... but as time went on offers came to the table I couldn’t ignore.
I remember the days of grinding hours upon hours to try and get the shards to build my roster.
The other hours I spent collecting t4bs and random general lower tier cats
I still know the time it takes to complete all the different stories, AQ and AW Obligations.
My point is I keep seeing posts where F2P players wear that honor on their sleeve and complain people who pay to keep the game around are getting the advantage...
It makes me scratch my head, as a business owner if I were to have a ‘free coffee’ maker next to a ‘you have to pay’ cappuccino maker and heard yip yap from the coffee people that they couldn’t get a free cappuccino id have the same experience as reading your post.
I’ve put money into the game, played years, haven’t even started LoL, and am 250k behind you in rating despite playing non-stop having a 6200+ prestige and your complaining you have completed every aspect in the game, spent no money, and are mad because you feel other players who spend money and aren’t even close to you in rankings have the advantage???
Reallly?? Some part of this story isn’t adding up.
Well I am F2P, I had only spend $1 crystal in December and had 1 and half years already with 450k+ prestige.
So my SUGGESTIONS is for everyone either F2P or P2P, don't make this game too complicated or better increase your skills, cus I know here not everyone skilled, some fools put their words too and complains to this game.
Now I will put my points here
* I have 3 5* rank 4, and 4 4* rank 5 (there is no one blade yet or any regen champion except voddoo) and I didn't find any difficulty while playing uncollected mode
* I have COMPLETED act 4 with only 4* rank 4 champions, and got uncollected with only rank 5 4* gwenpool that time also finished one round of act 5.
* I am not fan of 4* so I decided to HOARDING T4CC until I have to use only in good and useful 5*. And I basically focus on my top 6 or 8 champions, I am not like I want everyone to bring rank 5.
* I joined ALLIANCE where I have no pressure and gives me gold 2 or gold 1 rewards (war) and map 3 or map 4 crystals (quest) which I glad to accept. also they play 2 battlegroups both war or quest. So if miss few war or quest so no need to worries.
* I give my only 1 HOUR to this game half in morning and half in evening and done my duties for my alliance
* I don't play ARENA or any kinds other mode, except tier 4 basic and tier 1 alpha only if they appear in weekends.
* I used to PLAY heroic, master and uncollected or special monthly ( if any ). But from this month I am playing only uncollected mode and grinding tier 1 alpha and tier 4 basic cus there is more in peak milestone and thankful to kakam which saves my more time to go heroic and master 100% for tier 4 basic and tier 1 alpha
* This game is EASY if you not trying to make it complicated. Do what you find easy but not go for hard content until you have above than good skills
* YOUTUBERS are sucks I don't even join them either on live things, seriously cus youtubers act like bit**s. i watch few videos only about final bosses of uncollected.
* I do ENJOY this game and will do. since I started I was grinding like a crazy guy my first 6 months and now I don't even touch.
* And I found people SPENDING, spending and spending which is foolish thing, no one will give you medals or anything like this.
Still not going to read the entirety of this but just wanted to point out that many people fail to recognize but I feel like I shorted the community with a thought of my own.
The OPs perspective on the game is one of which of an experience veteran player (EVP), one who has acquired all or most of the in game static resources. An EVP has much different needs in order to progress and those needs and resources are extremely rare and difficult to acquire. That said. it may feel that people are zooming past the EVP because they spend money on the expensive resources which can't be acquired any other way but to grind it out in AQs at a slow pace.
So my comment on this is: If you don't want to spend on the game, then you need to be content with happy with what you have.
My point is I keep seeing posts where F2P players wear that honor on their sleeve and complain people who pay to keep the game around are getting the advantage...
It makes me scratch my head, as a business owner if I were to have a ‘free coffee’ maker next to a ‘you have to pay’ cappuccino maker and heard yip yap from the coffee people that they couldn’t get a free cappuccino id have the same experience as reading your post.
I’ve put money into the game, played years, haven’t even started LoL, and am 250k behind you in rating despite playing non-stop having a 6200+ prestige and your complaining you have completed every aspect in the game, spent no money, and are mad because you feel other players who spend money and aren’t even close to you in rankings have the advantage???
Reallly?? Some part of this story isn’t adding up.
I guess my post was too long and made my points more complicated and created some confusion. And I can't blame you or anyone else for not fully understanding my long post. Like I said I don't post in forums so this is very rare for me to do so. I just wanted to share my points of view somewhere out there.
I see many people just highlighting the fact that I'm a F2P. I only wanted to describe my status as a hardworking player and how far I made it with insane amount of hours and effort (and lots of failures), but still there's no chance someone like me can make it close to the top if we're not already involved with the top before these changes came (through skill and dedication).
I have no problem with the non F2P, casual spenders or whales. We can all play the game and have fun the way we want. None of these people decide which game resource is going to be on a money offer or a top rank reward (as far as I know). Kabam does. Yes I know they're a business and have to make money, but they already make too much money using other effective methods anyway and it's being proven all the time.
My main point is with these recent changes they overdid it and made the progression/competitive gap too large to be ever covered if another player who can't spend as much money but instead can invest a lot of time/effort and wishes to do that (nothing was ever like this since the day I started). Like I said in my 1st post this gap is made of the latest offers and the AQ/AW rewards.
My main belief is that the game should not be straight forward pay-to-win and that hardworking effort should be rewarded more.
And now I see this is where I'm partially wrong. The game as a business is exactly like life, no matter how much effort and hours you invest, money will always be above everything. That's why this game sells every offer there is, that's why they're one of the top grossing apps.
I didn't mean that hardworking players should be head-to-head with the whales up there. The gap difference was fine as it was. It was more than enough to keep the competitiveness going at a certain point at least but not too large as it will be from now on.
It won't be a surprise if in the near future they put an offer that includes something like a 5* r5 rank up gem. No matter how much it will cost, the people who are able to buy the latest offers will be able to buy that too. By that time any gap difference will not matter, the same people that are already up there will stay there and it will not be their fault because they want to have fun in their own way.
Bottom line is, anything we say it will not change a thing. We see all around so many legit complaints and reports that are never taken seriously. There's hardly any communication between the players and Kabam to work on anything. So let's try to have fun with anything that's left because I doubt that we'll keep playing in the next year or months.
Comments
So when you're in Rank 1 then the game will be working properly?
What does that even mean?
I never said the game wasn't working properly.
Love the 4th grad arguments though
But why not? Nobody wants window dressing, let alone paying for it. I don't understand why you feel entitled to run with the biggest dogs just because you put in the time. The suggestions you have to make money are things the masses don't really want. Great and wonderful it balances things in your eyes, but does it really? The big spenders aren't going to pay for things that don't help them progress. If they're not spending, kabam isn't making money and putting more effort to new content and so on. I spend once in a while, and it's only little things and things that help me advance since I don't have the time that you do.
So why would they create things to spend on that won't make them nearly the amount of money they would make it the way they're doing it now?
It just ends up sounding like all the other complaint threads. Just dismiss the top 5% and play from there. If you don't like a way a company is being run, dont use their product. Leave negative reviews, uninstall and find something else to play or occupy your time.
Some people just see that others have what you don't and feel like they are entitled to the same thing just because they put in the time. If only that's how the world always worked.
Pay to win isn't really the right term. Pay to win the highest rewards is more the right term. It's not kabam's fault you don't find value in winning the minor final.
You're saying the gap between free to play and pay to play is too large, even though you're in the #2 alliance, correct? So I'm asking at what point is the gap no longer too large; when you're in the #1 alliance? I'm implying that you're actually just upset that you're not #1 and never will be because you don't want to spend for it. That's the meat of the joke. You're welcome for making me chew that for you and spit it in your mouth mama bird style.
Well I was actually calling out your argument.
As being very wrong. Which it is. I am proud of my position in war. The deals have nothing to do with me being in the #1 alliance vs. the #2 alliance. That comment tells me you don't really know how this game works, but that's ok.
Then, you made a comment about having to be in the #1 alliance which made no sense lol. Please don't speak for me I'm not upset I'm not in the #1 alliance, and don't pretend you know I never will be because my alliance could very well rank 1 this next season. I bought the deals btw, so you made a wrong assumption about that too. lol
When you make arguments based on attacks, assumptions, and voodoo predictions the arguments fall apart real fast
Please never spit in anyone's mouth.
Again...it was a joke. Enjoy the feelings you're catching over it.
No feelings. Just calling wrong wrong.
I see a difference between someone who invests tons of hours and effort with someone who doesn't play that much even if they're both F2P. Why would anyone expect someone who doesn't play much to keep up with progress and be competitive right?
In fact people that spend some money (but can't buy all the valuable offers) and invest tons of hours and effort into the game still fall into the same category as hardcore F2P, kinda.
And then there are the big spenders (whales) who just buy their way and not investing as many hours and effort into playing. And that's fine too actually. What's not good and throws a lot of imbalance is the recent huge gap with the upgrade materials that will come in effect and very soon it will be noticeable.
I'm well aware that Kabam is a business that wants to keep making money, that's how businesses work. But they already do make so much money from the crystals alone (not to mention their other income ways), why do they have to give such an unfair disadvantage with the upgrade materials limiting the competitive nature of the game with a huge gap?
Someone mentioned the well known F2P YouTuber who's in a top 10 alliance. Yes he's already established there with a lot of effort and skills. But he also admitted that there's going to be a gap with those that can purchase all those valuable upgrade materials (t5b with t2as). You can often hear him saying that if he's not able to raise his prestige then it's going to hurt his alliance. The main point is what can the people outside of the top alliances do if they want to be competitive too?
My point of view may be completely wrong to a big portion of other players and all I have written may be wrong.
By reading other posts and threads too I can quickly recap some different opinions about F2P players:
1) They are not allowed to be competitive because they don't pay.
2) They shouldn't complain about anything or express any opinions about the game because they don't pay.
3) In the end, they have no place in the community if they shouldn't ask for any kind of improvements because they don't pay.
4) They don't have any kind of impact in the game and whether they play or not, nothing will ever change because they don't spend money.
We can all agree to 1 thing at least, that the competitiveness is very limited and is coming to an end soon.
It took me less time to conclude all those options are likely to fail.
You can't just add cosmetics to a game and call it a day. In some games players spend tons of money on those cosmetic items and in other games players call them rip offs and refuse to spend on them. The game's design and its monetization system have to be designed from the beginning to prioritize micro transaction customization, or evolve towards that organically, for that to work.
People look at the most successful games and assume you can pick out individual elements from those games and they'll work the same way in other games. But rarely is that true, and game developers that attempt to do that tend to fail. And people also forget that the most successful games embody supreme survivor bias. A game like Fortnite is a success not because of the list of features it has, but because it has the right combination of features in the right game. A game that implements 85% of those features is just as likely to crash and burn as it is to succeed. A game that implements 95% of those features is still not guaranteed to succeed.
It is easy to think up things to sell. The game industry is littered with failed games that thought up great things to sell, because the hard part is convincing people to buy them.
-P2p bring numbers as money income.
-F2p bring numbers as in players.
None of the sides can exist without the other. We need "whales" in order to let Kabam monetize, and we need f2ps in order for the game to be populated.
Take away whales and you lose income, hence the means to maintain the game up.
Take away the f2ps, and the game is about 300 dudes in 10 allies playing between themselves, whale vs whale, all at same prestige, level, without anyone to trash, fight, banter on, and showoff to.
And that's true for every game when pay2win is present.
Why then, other games have not these many problems compared to Mcoc? The answer is pretty easy:
- CONTENT DIFFERENTIATION -
Every game made of smart choiches divides its content in sections. There ll be (A)sections where Whales will have the upper hand given they spend for faster progression, there'll be (B)content where Whales will clear easily and f2ps will clear the same, less easily, and then there'll be (C)content where faster progression will still be an advantage, but can be overcome with personal skills.
(A) AQ
(B) Story/Events mode
(C) AW
that was the perfect balance. Which is being utterly broken. There has to be sections where you can't buy top positions and sections where you can. So that both sides, both cores of the community which make a game alive cohexist, and where everyone has its personal space and chanche to shine.
And THIS, imho, is where the game need to step up and away from being a Slot Machine and became a real game. It's possible, so do so.
I think only the 1st one of those is true. The rest are more of your personal feelings because people aren't supporting your thread.
Yes, it will be harder to compete with people who spend money if you do not do so. Probably impossible. That's life. No matter how talented you are naturally, the kid that got to buy his way into the best schools, or get the best training, is going to have a huge advantage over you which probably isn't fair. I just don't get what you expect to be done about it other than not giving anyone anything.
I wouldn't buy any of those.
This seems like rewriting history to me. I've never seen a single moment in time when I've been playing this game where a significant percentage of the people commenting on the game expressed this belief as occurring in the present. It has always been something that was happening in the past, but apparently no one was noticing at the time.
That isn't much back in the past, amof season 2 was the only moment when skills finally seemed to be mattering before the abrupt comeback on the spend some more tune. Not saying it was "perfect" - should have used " " in last post too -, but it was going in the right direction.
Here is the cold hard truth - in just about anything - skill, money and working hard will make you progress in life and in this game. Many of the most skilled players will be in the top 20 alliances and they will get the best rewards. The people who spend money will buy deals to advance their accounts. And the grinders will get either more 5 star champs, more 5* and 6* shards and have a greater chance at getting the best champs. And if you are skilled, spend and grind - then you will advance even further and faster. That is the reality of it.
But in the end, I realized that it doesn't matter unless you decide that it does. Why do the rest of us have to chase the carrot instead of just playing the game the way we want? So what if other players advance faster and further than you. Why not just enjoy it at your own pace?
I'm not sure what interesting thing this says though, because there are many successful games that prove many people have no problem with the monetization mechanics in MCOC also, if it is "done well."
If MCOC was done differently from the start, then of course it would be a different game. It would have different problems than the ones it has now. But on top of all that, it is also possible it would no longer exist, because most games fail. The fact that MCOC exists now with a large and relatively healthy player base already makes its implementation a top 1% game implementation, warts and all. It isn't easy to improve on that, and the risks associated with trying are primarily associated with being one of the other 99% that disappear before reaching three years or millions of players.
I’ve been playing the game as long as you have, I’ve done my very best to be a F2P... in the beginning... but as time went on offers came to the table I couldn’t ignore.
I remember the days of grinding hours upon hours to try and get the shards to build my roster.
The other hours I spent collecting t4bs and random general lower tier cats
I still know the time it takes to complete all the different stories, AQ and AW Obligations.
My point is I keep seeing posts where F2P players wear that honor on their sleeve and complain people who pay to keep the game around are getting the advantage...
It makes me scratch my head, as a business owner if I were to have a ‘free coffee’ maker next to a ‘you have to pay’ cappuccino maker and heard yip yap from the coffee people that they couldn’t get a free cappuccino id have the same experience as reading your post.
I’ve put money into the game, played years, haven’t even started LoL, and am 250k behind you in rating despite playing non-stop having a 6200+ prestige and your complaining you have completed every aspect in the game, spent no money, and are mad because you feel other players who spend money and aren’t even close to you in rankings have the advantage???
Reallly?? Some part of this story isn’t adding up.
So my SUGGESTIONS is for everyone either F2P or P2P, don't make this game too complicated or better increase your skills, cus I know here not everyone skilled, some fools put their words too and complains to this game.
Now I will put my points here
* I have 3 5* rank 4, and 4 4* rank 5 (there is no one blade yet or any regen champion except voddoo) and I didn't find any difficulty while playing uncollected mode
* I have COMPLETED act 4 with only 4* rank 4 champions, and got uncollected with only rank 5 4* gwenpool that time also finished one round of act 5.
* I am not fan of 4* so I decided to HOARDING T4CC until I have to use only in good and useful 5*. And I basically focus on my top 6 or 8 champions, I am not like I want everyone to bring rank 5.
* I joined ALLIANCE where I have no pressure and gives me gold 2 or gold 1 rewards (war) and map 3 or map 4 crystals (quest) which I glad to accept. also they play 2 battlegroups both war or quest. So if miss few war or quest so no need to worries.
* I give my only 1 HOUR to this game half in morning and half in evening and done my duties for my alliance
* I don't play ARENA or any kinds other mode, except tier 4 basic and tier 1 alpha only if they appear in weekends.
* I used to PLAY heroic, master and uncollected or special monthly ( if any ). But from this month I am playing only uncollected mode and grinding tier 1 alpha and tier 4 basic cus there is more in peak milestone and thankful to kakam which saves my more time to go heroic and master 100% for tier 4 basic and tier 1 alpha
* This game is EASY if you not trying to make it complicated. Do what you find easy but not go for hard content until you have above than good skills
* YOUTUBERS are sucks I don't even join them either on live things, seriously cus youtubers act like bit**s. i watch few videos only about final bosses of uncollected.
* I do ENJOY this game and will do. since I started I was grinding like a crazy guy my first 6 months and now I don't even touch.
* And I found people SPENDING, spending and spending which is foolish thing, no one will give you medals or anything like this.
* Thanks and good luck to that guy who left us.
PLAY CALM, USE YOUR HEAD and IMPROVE YOUR SKILLS
The OPs perspective on the game is one of which of an experience veteran player (EVP), one who has acquired all or most of the in game static resources. An EVP has much different needs in order to progress and those needs and resources are extremely rare and difficult to acquire. That said. it may feel that people are zooming past the EVP because they spend money on the expensive resources which can't be acquired any other way but to grind it out in AQs at a slow pace.
So my comment on this is: If you don't want to spend on the game, then you need to be content with happy with what you have.
I guess my post was too long and made my points more complicated and created some confusion. And I can't blame you or anyone else for not fully understanding my long post. Like I said I don't post in forums so this is very rare for me to do so. I just wanted to share my points of view somewhere out there.
I see many people just highlighting the fact that I'm a F2P. I only wanted to describe my status as a hardworking player and how far I made it with insane amount of hours and effort (and lots of failures), but still there's no chance someone like me can make it close to the top if we're not already involved with the top before these changes came (through skill and dedication).
I have no problem with the non F2P, casual spenders or whales. We can all play the game and have fun the way we want. None of these people decide which game resource is going to be on a money offer or a top rank reward (as far as I know). Kabam does. Yes I know they're a business and have to make money, but they already make too much money using other effective methods anyway and it's being proven all the time.
My main point is with these recent changes they overdid it and made the progression/competitive gap too large to be ever covered if another player who can't spend as much money but instead can invest a lot of time/effort and wishes to do that (nothing was ever like this since the day I started). Like I said in my 1st post this gap is made of the latest offers and the AQ/AW rewards.
My main belief is that the game should not be straight forward pay-to-win and that hardworking effort should be rewarded more.
And now I see this is where I'm partially wrong. The game as a business is exactly like life, no matter how much effort and hours you invest, money will always be above everything. That's why this game sells every offer there is, that's why they're one of the top grossing apps.
I didn't mean that hardworking players should be head-to-head with the whales up there. The gap difference was fine as it was. It was more than enough to keep the competitiveness going at a certain point at least but not too large as it will be from now on.
It won't be a surprise if in the near future they put an offer that includes something like a 5* r5 rank up gem. No matter how much it will cost, the people who are able to buy the latest offers will be able to buy that too. By that time any gap difference will not matter, the same people that are already up there will stay there and it will not be their fault because they want to have fun in their own way.
Bottom line is, anything we say it will not change a thing. We see all around so many legit complaints and reports that are never taken seriously. There's hardly any communication between the players and Kabam to work on anything. So let's try to have fun with anything that's left because I doubt that we'll keep playing in the next year or months.