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Crystal Retry Button

We all know that sinking feeling when you open your 4 star crystal to get an Ant-Man or Black Bolt, both of which I unfortunately have. I think a great way to make people work harder is to include a "retry" button for half of the original price. If I open a 4 star crystal and get someone like Thor, I could "retry" for 1,000 more shards. Then, it would be like spending 3,000 4 star shards on a crystal to get another shot, but not gain the first, bad character you received. For Premium Hero Crystals, you could spend 50 (or maybe 75) more units and give it another go without receiving that stupid 2 star duplicate on a guy you've already maxed out. For all of these crystals, you could just keep "retrying" until you get something you want or hit a limit (like 5 or something) of how many "retries" Kabam is fine with you getting per crystal. What do you guys think?
-CrusherOfDreams
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    winterthurwinterthur Posts: 7,895 ★★★★★
    I think it is a great idea.

    However:

    1/ Game developers will have to programme an additional step to confirm no re-spin because of class isos bonus if the champ is awakened.

    2/ Game developers may have difficulty to prevent specific class isos farming by a player that already has most of the champs.

    3/ I usually don't spin crystals and opened all at one go. It gets complex if I want to select the champ or several champs to re-spin.

    Oops... does it mean it's not a good idea?
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    CrusherOfDreamsCrusherOfDreams Posts: 1,370 ★★★
    edited May 2017
    winterthur wrote: »
    I think it is a great idea.

    However:

    1/ Game developers will have to programme an additional step to confirm no re-spin because of class isos bonus if the champ is awakened.

    2/ Game developers may have difficulty to prevent specific class isos farming by a player that already has most of the champs.

    3/ I usually don't spin crystals and opened all at one go. It gets complex if I want to select the champ or several champs to re-spin.

    Oops... does it mean it's not a good idea?

    Here's my responses:

    1) Programming will be a part of all new ideas. This is obvious, and for no reason should exclude ideas or no ideas would ever go into the game.

    2) If someone is willing to drop that many shards or units on ISO, then they should be able to do so.

    3) Yes, it would be a bit complex, but Kabam could pull it off by having a retry option on each item you received. Lots of things are complex, like the Flat Rates were. That doesn't mean they're bad ideas.
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    Ranger1914Ranger1914 Posts: 22
    edited May 2017
    Not real well thought out because then you spend shards or however many units to receive nothing even Ant-man and black bolt are better than nothing ant-man is actually pretty good on the defense but that's not really your point in any case to each his own but this is not a future I would use if they added it
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    CrusherOfDreamsCrusherOfDreams Posts: 1,370 ★★★
    edited May 2017
    Ranger1914 wrote: »
    Not real well thought out because then shards or however many units to receive nothing even Ant-man and black bolt are better than nothing ant-man is actually pretty good on the defense but that's not really your point in any case to each his own but this is not a future I would use if they added it

    The point isn't on who's bad, as you said. I just think that, if you did get someone you though was bad, there should be an option to retry. If your 4 star crystal gave you Black Bolt, wouldn't you want a do-over? Shard crystals are the main point here. Yeah, Black Bolt is better than nothing. Anything is better than nothing, but some things are on the lower end of the spectrum. If you get something on the low end, a fee to give it another go seems fair.
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    GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 36,306 ★★★★★
    A Retry Button defeats the purpose of having an RNG. It's an idea. Just not one that is feasible in my opinion.
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    CrusherOfDreamsCrusherOfDreams Posts: 1,370 ★★★
    A Retry Button defeats the purpose of having an RNG. It's an idea. Just not one that is feasible in my opinion.

    It doesn't defeat the purpose of anything. It's a backup plan that you don't have to invest in. Sort of like a low-scale insurance. Someone may be concerned about their car breaking down or being wrecked, so they save up for insurance. That's basically all it is: insurance for if something bad happens.
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    GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 36,306 ★★★★★
    A Retry Button defeats the purpose of having an RNG. It's an idea. Just not one that is feasible in my opinion.

    It doesn't defeat the purpose of anything. It's a backup plan that you don't have to invest in. Sort of like a low-scale insurance. Someone may be concerned about their car breaking down or being wrecked, so they save up for insurance. That's basically all it is: insurance for if something bad happens.

    Actually, it does. It defeats the purpose of the Crystals. They are a guarantee to a chance. It wouldn't be a chance if we were rolling until we got the outcome we wanted.
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    CrusherOfDreamsCrusherOfDreams Posts: 1,370 ★★★
    edited May 2017
    A Retry Button defeats the purpose of having an RNG. It's an idea. Just not one that is feasible in my opinion.

    It doesn't defeat the purpose of anything. It's a backup plan that you don't have to invest in. Sort of like a low-scale insurance. Someone may be concerned about their car breaking down or being wrecked, so they save up for insurance. That's basically all it is: insurance for if something bad happens.

    Actually, it does. It defeats the purpose of the Crystals. They are a guarantee to a chance. It wouldn't be a chance if we were rolling until we got the outcome we wanted.

    This isn't true. Have you ever seen those videos on YouTube? The "3000 Crystal Opening!!!" ones? That's the exact same thing on a larger scale. Buying multiple crystals and retrying specific crystals are just alternate forms of each other. Buying multiple costs more but gives you the rewards no matter what, while retrying costs less with less rewards. I in no way see how this would be bad for the Contest. (And if Kabam really thought that it would be a problem, they could limit the rolls per crystal as I suggested.)
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    CrusherOfDreamsCrusherOfDreams Posts: 1,370 ★★★
    edited May 2017
    This concept is just another idea that may or not be used, depending on the person. You can't definitively say it would be good or bad for everybody since we all have different thoughts and opinions. It would be helpful to some and unhelpful to others, but in no way could harm anyone. I think that since only positives can come out of this, it should at least be considered.
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    GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 36,306 ★★★★★
    A Retry Button defeats the purpose of having an RNG. It's an idea. Just not one that is feasible in my opinion.

    It doesn't defeat the purpose of anything. It's a backup plan that you don't have to invest in. Sort of like a low-scale insurance. Someone may be concerned about their car breaking down or being wrecked, so they save up for insurance. That's basically all it is: insurance for if something bad happens.

    Actually, it does. It defeats the purpose of the Crystals. They are a guarantee to a chance. It wouldn't be a chance if we were rolling until we got the outcome we wanted.

    This isn't true. Have you ever seen those videos on YouTube? The "3000 Crystal Opening!!!" ones? That's the exact same thing on a larger scale. Buying multiple crystals and retrying specific crystals are just alternate forms of each other. Buying multiple costs more but gives you the rewards no matter what, while retrying costs less with less rewards. I in no way see how this would be bad for the Contest.

    I would have to disagree with that. The Drop Rate does not change with multiple Crystals. You just get more chances. Let's say the Drop Rate for 4*'s is 0.01%. (No idea what it is. Just an example.). If you have 3500 Crystals, that's not the same as retrying the same Crystal. It actually means you have 3500 chances at 0.01%. The odds don't increase.
    Now, if you have one Crystal that you continually try, you are generating a random outcome multiple times just the same, so the odds of getting what you want do not increase either. However, it contradicts the entire point of playing for Crystals. People would keep spinning the same ones. Either way, it defeats the purpose of having a random outcome and trying again with another Crystal. There would be no point of having another RNG if people wanted to spin until they got what they wanted.
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    CrusherOfDreamsCrusherOfDreams Posts: 1,370 ★★★
    edited May 2017
    A Retry Button defeats the purpose of having an RNG. It's an idea. Just not one that is feasible in my opinion.

    It doesn't defeat the purpose of anything. It's a backup plan that you don't have to invest in. Sort of like a low-scale insurance. Someone may be concerned about their car breaking down or being wrecked, so they save up for insurance. That's basically all it is: insurance for if something bad happens.

    Actually, it does. It defeats the purpose of the Crystals. They are a guarantee to a chance. It wouldn't be a chance if we were rolling until we got the outcome we wanted.

    This isn't true. Have you ever seen those videos on YouTube? The "3000 Crystal Opening!!!" ones? That's the exact same thing on a larger scale. Buying multiple crystals and retrying specific crystals are just alternate forms of each other. Buying multiple costs more but gives you the rewards no matter what, while retrying costs less with less rewards. I in no way see how this would be bad for the Contest.

    I would have to disagree with that. The Drop Rate does not change with multiple Crystals. You just get more chances. Let's say the Drop Rate for 4*'s is 0.01%. (No idea what it is. Just an example.). If you have 3500 Crystals, that's not the same as retrying the same Crystal. It actually means you have 3500 chances at 0.01%. The odds don't increase.
    Now, if you have one Crystal that you continually try, you are generating a random outcome multiple times just the same, so the odds of getting what you want do not increase either. However, it contradicts the entire point of playing for Crystals. People would keep spinning the same ones. Either way, it defeats the purpose of having a random outcome and trying again with another Crystal. There would be no point of having another RNG if people wanted to spin until theY got what they wanted.

    I know the Drop Rate doesn't change. I never said it did or should. If you get something bad, you want a do-over. It's the same odds as buying another separate crystal, but with a lower price and lower overall rewards. You want a do-over if you get something bad in most cases, so this could help people. It in no way would harm anyone. If you don't want to do it, then don't. Don't say it's a bad idea because you personally wouldn't do it, though. Just say that don't find it effective for you and your situation, and move on. Don't continue arguing against someone's opinion. People's opinion's differ, and I disagree with you. Just because you don't find it helpful to you doesn't mean that I or others can't find it helpful to them.
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    GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 36,306 ★★★★★
    A Retry Button defeats the purpose of having an RNG. It's an idea. Just not one that is feasible in my opinion.

    It doesn't defeat the purpose of anything. It's a backup plan that you don't have to invest in. Sort of like a low-scale insurance. Someone may be concerned about their car breaking down or being wrecked, so they save up for insurance. That's basically all it is: insurance for if something bad happens.

    Actually, it does. It defeats the purpose of the Crystals. They are a guarantee to a chance. It wouldn't be a chance if we were rolling until we got the outcome we wanted.

    This isn't true. Have you ever seen those videos on YouTube? The "3000 Crystal Opening!!!" ones? That's the exact same thing on a larger scale. Buying multiple crystals and retrying specific crystals are just alternate forms of each other. Buying multiple costs more but gives you the rewards no matter what, while retrying costs less with less rewards. I in no way see how this would be bad for the Contest.

    I would have to disagree with that. The Drop Rate does not change with multiple Crystals. You just get more chances. Let's say the Drop Rate for 4*'s is 0.01%. (No idea what it is. Just an example.). If you have 3500 Crystals, that's not the same as retrying the same Crystal. It actually means you have 3500 chances at 0.01%. The odds don't increase.
    Now, if you have one Crystal that you continually try, you are generating a random outcome multiple times just the same, so the odds of getting what you want do not increase either. However, it contradicts the entire point of playing for Crystals. People would keep spinning the same ones. Either way, it defeats the purpose of having a random outcome and trying again with another Crystal. There would be no point of having another RNG if people wanted to spin until theY got what they wanted.

    I know the Drop Rate doesn't change. I never said it did or should. If you get something bad, you want a do-over. It's the same odds as buying another separate crystal, but with a lower price and lower overall rewards. You want a do-over if you get something bad in most cases, so this could help people. It in no way would harm anyone. If you don't want to do it, then don't. Don't say it's a bad idea because you personally wouldn't do it, though. Just say that don't find it effective for you and your situation, and move on. Don't continue arguing against someone's opinion. People's opinion's differ, and I disagree with you. Just because you don't find it helpful to you doesn't mean that I or others can't find it helpful to them.

    Actually, I stated my opinion and you disputed it.
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    D15rulesD15rules Posts: 5
    Great idea, however with all the cheats people are using it would be hard for Kabam to safeguard this system from hacking. I would love to see that system though, awesome and well though post!
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    CrusherOfDreamsCrusherOfDreams Posts: 1,370 ★★★
    D15rules wrote: »
    Great idea, however with all the cheats people are using it would be hard for Kabam to safeguard this system from hacking. I would love to see that system though, awesome and well though post!

    I appreciate it. On the hacking point, hacking will always be a problem. I don't think that hacking should ever be a reason to not implement an in-game feature unless it has to do with personal info.
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    CrusherOfDreamsCrusherOfDreams Posts: 1,370 ★★★
    edited May 2017
    A Retry Button defeats the purpose of having an RNG. It's an idea. Just not one that is feasible in my opinion.

    It doesn't defeat the purpose of anything. It's a backup plan that you don't have to invest in. Sort of like a low-scale insurance. Someone may be concerned about their car breaking down or being wrecked, so they save up for insurance. That's basically all it is: insurance for if something bad happens.

    Actually, it does. It defeats the purpose of the Crystals. They are a guarantee to a chance. It wouldn't be a chance if we were rolling until we got the outcome we wanted.

    This isn't true. Have you ever seen those videos on YouTube? The "3000 Crystal Opening!!!" ones? That's the exact same thing on a larger scale. Buying multiple crystals and retrying specific crystals are just alternate forms of each other. Buying multiple costs more but gives you the rewards no matter what, while retrying costs less with less rewards. I in no way see how this would be bad for the Contest.

    I would have to disagree with that. The Drop Rate does not change with multiple Crystals. You just get more chances. Let's say the Drop Rate for 4*'s is 0.01%. (No idea what it is. Just an example.). If you have 3500 Crystals, that's not the same as retrying the same Crystal. It actually means you have 3500 chances at 0.01%. The odds don't increase.
    Now, if you have one Crystal that you continually try, you are generating a random outcome multiple times just the same, so the odds of getting what you want do not increase either. However, it contradicts the entire point of playing for Crystals. People would keep spinning the same ones. Either way, it defeats the purpose of having a random outcome and trying again with another Crystal. There would be no point of having another RNG if people wanted to spin until theY got what they wanted.

    I know the Drop Rate doesn't change. I never said it did or should. If you get something bad, you want a do-over. It's the same odds as buying another separate crystal, but with a lower price and lower overall rewards. You want a do-over if you get something bad in most cases, so this could help people. It in no way would harm anyone. If you don't want to do it, then don't. Don't say it's a bad idea because you personally wouldn't do it, though. Just say that don't find it effective for you and your situation, and move on. Don't continue arguing against someone's opinion. People's opinion's differ, and I disagree with you. Just because you don't find it helpful to you doesn't mean that I or others can't find it helpful to them.

    Actually, I stated my opinion and you disputed it.

    Here's the thing: If someone has an idea, and you disagree with it, they'll want the last word. This is true for almost everyone across every thread. If you dispute their idea, then they will rebuttal you. At that point, it's an endless loop of firing by you and defense by them. Only when you stop firing will I put my shield down. If I put my shield down before you're done firing, it looks like you've proven my point wrong and irrelevant. This is true for everyone. If you attack a thread, it's your responsibility to back off. Not that you should have to, but you can't expect the argument to end until you decide to end it. The person who started the thread will ALWAYS want the last word, or their idea looks weak. I'm defending my point. Please stop starting these endless cycles of you attacking, them defending, and then you blaming them for the whole debate that ensues. I'm happy to debate you on this topic, as well as many others, but if you're doing the attacking, you can't expect me to end it.
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    winterthurwinterthur Posts: 7,895 ★★★★★
    I think if implemented, it could cost more than 2000 shards for a re-spin. Similar with the glory units required on the Greater Glory crystal compare with Glory crystal.

    How much would be the tolerable additional shards to re-spin?

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    CrusherOfDreamsCrusherOfDreams Posts: 1,370 ★★★
    winterthur wrote: »
    I think if implemented, it could cost more than 2000 shards for a re-spin. Similar with the glory units required on the Greater Glory crystal compare with Glory crystal.

    How much would be the tolerable additional shards to re-spin?

    Why do you think it should cost more? In the Glory thing, you can buy it again at a higher price, but you still reap the first-time rewards. With this, you don't get those original rewards, which is why it's a different idea. If it wasn't a different idea, then I would've just said to buy another crystal.
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    winterthurwinterthur Posts: 7,895 ★★★★★
    I was thinking about the offers given and I am unsure if the logic to let us get away with 3000 shards getting a re-spin versus 4000 shards no choice on outcome is something the game owner wish for us to have.
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    winterthurwinterthur Posts: 7,895 ★★★★★
    In the Glory crystal, 1*7200 shards cost more than 2*3600 shards. If I buy something from shops; it is usually the other way.
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    CrusherOfDreamsCrusherOfDreams Posts: 1,370 ★★★
    winterthur wrote: »
    I was thinking about the offers given and I am unsure if the logic to let us get away with 3000 shards getting a re-spin versus 4000 shards no choice on outcome is something the game owner wish for us to have.

    If you aren't getting the thing you bought first, you shouldn't be paying full price for it. If Kabam doesn't like the idea, that's fine, but you shouldn't be paying for stuff you aren't getting unless it's for a do-over.
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    winterthurwinterthur Posts: 7,895 ★★★★★
    I just thought of another. If player has a champ near to max. sig level, having the chance to increase duplicating the champ will mean getting a chance to obtain IIF earlier, so from what we have seen so far, game owner is unlikely to agree.

    I can't yet think of something that is a win-win for both game owner and player. So far, it is game owner win, player lose.
    So need help from other forum members for ideas.
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    CrusherOfDreamsCrusherOfDreams Posts: 1,370 ★★★
    winterthur wrote: »
    I just thought of another. If player has a champ near to max. sig level, having the chance to increase duplicating the champ will mean getting a chance to obtain IIF earlier, so from what we have seen so far, game owner is unlikely to agree.

    I can't yet think of something that is a win-win for both game owner and player. So far, it is game owner win, player lose.
    So need help from other forum members for ideas.

    Well, the odds of getting that character are still the same, it's just another shot at it. I don't see how this would effect getting Immortal Iron Fist.
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    GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 36,306 ★★★★★
    A Retry Button defeats the purpose of having an RNG. It's an idea. Just not one that is feasible in my opinion.

    It doesn't defeat the purpose of anything. It's a backup plan that you don't have to invest in. Sort of like a low-scale insurance. Someone may be concerned about their car breaking down or being wrecked, so they save up for insurance. That's basically all it is: insurance for if something bad happens.

    Actually, it does. It defeats the purpose of the Crystals. They are a guarantee to a chance. It wouldn't be a chance if we were rolling until we got the outcome we wanted.

    This isn't true. Have you ever seen those videos on YouTube? The "3000 Crystal Opening!!!" ones? That's the exact same thing on a larger scale. Buying multiple crystals and retrying specific crystals are just alternate forms of each other. Buying multiple costs more but gives you the rewards no matter what, while retrying costs less with less rewards. I in no way see how this would be bad for the Contest.

    I would have to disagree with that. The Drop Rate does not change with multiple Crystals. You just get more chances. Let's say the Drop Rate for 4*'s is 0.01%. (No idea what it is. Just an example.). If you have 3500 Crystals, that's not the same as retrying the same Crystal. It actually means you have 3500 chances at 0.01%. The odds don't increase.
    Now, if you have one Crystal that you continually try, you are generating a random outcome multiple times just the same, so the odds of getting what you want do not increase either. However, it contradicts the entire point of playing for Crystals. People would keep spinning the same ones. Either way, it defeats the purpose of having a random outcome and trying again with another Crystal. There would be no point of having another RNG if people wanted to spin until theY got what they wanted.
  • Options
    GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 36,306 ★★★★★
    A Retry Button defeats the purpose of having an RNG. It's an idea. Just not one that is feasible in my opinion.

    It doesn't defeat the purpose of anything. It's a backup plan that you don't have to invest in. Sort of like a low-scale insurance. Someone may be concerned about their car breaking down or being wrecked, so they save up for insurance. That's basically all it is: insurance for if something bad happens.

    Actually, it does. It defeats the purpose of the Crystals. They are a guarantee to a chance. It wouldn't be a chance if we were rolling until we got the outcome we wanted.

    This isn't true. Have you ever seen those videos on YouTube? The "3000 Crystal Opening!!!" ones? That's the exact same thing on a larger scale. Buying multiple crystals and retrying specific crystals are just alternate forms of each other. Buying multiple costs more but gives you the rewards no matter what, while retrying costs less with less rewards. I in no way see how this would be bad for the Contest.

    I would have to disagree with that. The Drop Rate does not change with multiple Crystals. You just get more chances. Let's say the Drop Rate for 4*'s is 0.01%. (No idea what it is. Just an example.). If you have 3500 Crystals, that's not the same as retrying the same Crystal. It actually means you have 3500 chances at 0.01%. The odds don't increase.
    Now, if you have one Crystal that you continually try, you are generating a random outcome multiple times just the same, so the odds of getting what you want do not increase either. However, it contradicts the entire point of playing for Crystals. People would keep spinning the same ones. Either way, it defeats the purpose of having a random outcome and trying again with another Crystal. There would be no point of having another RNG if people wanted to spin until theY got what they wanted.
  • Options
    GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 36,306 ★★★★★
    A Retry Button defeats the purpose of having an RNG. It's an idea. Just not one that is feasible in my opinion.

    It doesn't defeat the purpose of anything. It's a backup plan that you don't have to invest in. Sort of like a low-scale insurance. Someone may be concerned about their car breaking down or being wrecked, so they save up for insurance. That's basically all it is: insurance for if something bad happens.

    Actually, it does. It defeats the purpose of the Crystals. They are a guarantee to a chance. It wouldn't be a chance if we were rolling until we got the outcome we wanted.

    This isn't true. Have you ever seen those videos on YouTube? The "3000 Crystal Opening!!!" ones? That's the exact same thing on a larger scale. Buying multiple crystals and retrying specific crystals are just alternate forms of each other. Buying multiple costs more but gives you the rewards no matter what, while retrying costs less with less rewards. I in no way see how this would be bad for the Contest.

    I would have to disagree with that. The Drop Rate does not change with multiple Crystals. You just get more chances. Let's say the Drop Rate for 4*'s is 0.01%. (No idea what it is. Just an example.). If you have 3500 Crystals, that's not the same as retrying the same Crystal. It actually means you have 3500 chances at 0.01%. The odds don't increase.
    Now, if you have one Crystal that you continually try, you are generating a random outcome multiple times just the same, so the odds of getting what you want do not increase either. However, it contradicts the entire point of playing for Crystals. People would keep spinning the same ones. Either way, it defeats the purpose of having a random outcome and trying again with another Crystal. There would be no point of having another RNG if people wanted to spin until theY got what they wanted.
  • Options
    CrusherOfDreamsCrusherOfDreams Posts: 1,370 ★★★
    winterthur wrote: »
    I just thought of another. If player has a champ near to max. sig level, having the chance to increase duplicating the champ will mean getting a chance to obtain IIF earlier, so from what we have seen so far, game owner is unlikely to agree.

    I can't yet think of something that is a win-win for both game owner and player. So far, it is game owner win, player lose.
    So need help from other forum members for ideas.

    This is more of a "I got someone horrible from my really rare crystal, so I want a do-over" type of thing. It wouldn't harm the players at all.
  • Options
    GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 36,306 ★★★★★
    edited May 2017
    A Retry Button defeats the purpose of having an RNG. It's an idea. Just not one that is feasible in my opinion.

    It doesn't defeat the purpose of anything. It's a backup plan that you don't have to invest in. Sort of like a low-scale insurance. Someone may be concerned about their car breaking down or being wrecked, so they save up for insurance. That's basically all it is: insurance for if something bad happens.

    Actually, it does. It defeats the purpose of the Crystals. They are a guarantee to a chance. It wouldn't be a chance if we were rolling until we got the outcome we wanted.

    This isn't true. Have you ever seen those videos on YouTube? The "3000 Crystal Opening!!!" ones? That's the exact same thing on a larger scale. Buying multiple crystals and retrying specific crystals are just alternate forms of each other. Buying multiple costs more but gives you the rewards no matter what, while retrying costs less with less rewards. I in no way see how this would be bad for the Contest.

    I would have to disagree with that. The Drop Rate does not change with multiple Crystals. You just get more chances. Let's say the Drop Rate for 4*'s is 0.01%. (No idea what it is. Just an example.). If you have 3500 Crystals, that's not the same as retrying the same Crystal. It actually means you have 3500 chances at 0.01%. The odds don't increase.
    Now, if you have one Crystal that you continually try, you are generating a random outcome multiple times just the same, so the odds of getting what you want do not increase either. However, it contradicts the entire point of playing for Crystals. People would keep spinning the same ones. Either way, it defeats the purpose of having a random outcome and trying again with another Crystal. There would be no point of having another RNG if people wanted to spin until theY got what they wanted.

    I know the Drop Rate doesn't change. I never said it did or should. If you get something bad, you want a do-over. It's the same odds as buying another separate crystal, but with a lower price and lower overall rewards. You want a do-over if you get something bad in most cases, so this could help people. It in no way would harm anyone. If you don't want to do it, then don't. Don't say it's a bad idea because you personally wouldn't do it, though. Just say that don't find it effective for you and your situation, and move on. Don't continue arguing against someone's opinion. People's opinion's differ, and I disagree with you. Just because you don't find it helpful to you doesn't mean that I or others can't find it helpful to them.

    Actually, I stated my opinion and you disputed it.

    Here's the thing: If someone has an idea, and you disagree with it, they'll want the last word. This is true for almost everyone across every thread. If you dispute their idea, then they will rebuttal you. At that point, it's an endless loop of firing by you and defense by them. Only when you stop firing will I put my shield down. If I put my shield down before you're done firing, it looks like you've proven my point wrong and irrelevant. This is true for everyone. If you attack a thread, it's your responsibility to back off. Not that you should have to, but you can't expect the argument to end until you decide to end it. The person who started the thread will ALWAYS want the last word, or their idea looks weak. I'm defending my point. Please stop starting these endless cycles of you attacking, them defending, and then you blaming them for the whole debate that ensues. I'm happy to debate you on this topic, as well as many others, but if you're doing the attacking, you can't expect me to end it.

    That makes absolutely no sense. First you dispute my feedback, then you tell me to walk away. That's one-sided at best.
    When you post, people will state opposing ideas. If you decide to argue those points, it's your responsibility. Debating ideas is not the same as attacking someone. If you don't want people to continue a discussion, I would suggest not debating every different idea, or not posting in general. Your choice. When you present an idea, people have the ability and the right to disagree or agree with you. You can't tell them they're wrong and shut down the interaction. It's a discussion.
    Good luck with your ideas.
  • Options
    CrusherOfDreamsCrusherOfDreams Posts: 1,370 ★★★
    edited May 2017
    A Retry Button defeats the purpose of having an RNG. It's an idea. Just not one that is feasible in my opinion.

    It doesn't defeat the purpose of anything. It's a backup plan that you don't have to invest in. Sort of like a low-scale insurance. Someone may be concerned about their car breaking down or being wrecked, so they save up for insurance. That's basically all it is: insurance for if something bad happens.

    Actually, it does. It defeats the purpose of the Crystals. They are a guarantee to a chance. It wouldn't be a chance if we were rolling until we got the outcome we wanted.

    This isn't true. Have you ever seen those videos on YouTube? The "3000 Crystal Opening!!!" ones? That's the exact same thing on a larger scale. Buying multiple crystals and retrying specific crystals are just alternate forms of each other. Buying multiple costs more but gives you the rewards no matter what, while retrying costs less with less rewards. I in no way see how this would be bad for the Contest.

    I would have to disagree with that. The Drop Rate does not change with multiple Crystals. You just get more chances. Let's say the Drop Rate for 4*'s is 0.01%. (No idea what it is. Just an example.). If you have 3500 Crystals, that's not the same as retrying the same Crystal. It actually means you have 3500 chances at 0.01%. The odds don't increase.
    Now, if you have one Crystal that you continually try, you are generating a random outcome multiple times just the same, so the odds of getting what you want do not increase either. However, it contradicts the entire point of playing for Crystals. People would keep spinning the same ones. Either way, it defeats the purpose of having a random outcome and trying again with another Crystal. There would be no point of having another RNG if people wanted to spin until theY got what they wanted.

    I know the Drop Rate doesn't change. I never said it did or should. If you get something bad, you want a do-over. It's the same odds as buying another separate crystal, but with a lower price and lower overall rewards. You want a do-over if you get something bad in most cases, so this could help people. It in no way would harm anyone. If you don't want to do it, then don't. Don't say it's a bad idea because you personally wouldn't do it, though. Just say that don't find it effective for you and your situation, and move on. Don't continue arguing against someone's opinion. People's opinion's differ, and I disagree with you. Just because you don't find it helpful to you doesn't mean that I or others can't find it helpful to them.

    Actually, I stated my opinion and you disputed it.

    Here's the thing: If someone has an idea, and you disagree with it, they'll want the last word. This is true for almost everyone across every thread. If you dispute their idea, then they will rebuttal you. At that point, it's an endless loop of firing by you and defense by them. Only when you stop firing will I put my shield down. If I put my shield down before you're done firing, it looks like you've proven my point wrong and irrelevant. This is true for everyone. If you attack a thread, it's your responsibility to back off. Not that you should have to, but you can't expect the argument to end until you decide to end it. The person who started the thread will ALWAYS want the last word, or their idea looks weak. I'm defending my point. Please stop starting these endless cycles of you attacking, them defending, and then you blaming them for the whole debate that ensues. I'm happy to debate you on this topic, as well as many others, but if you're doing the attacking, you can't expect me to end it.

    That makes absolutely no sense. First you dispute my feedback, then you tell me to walk away. That's one-sided at best.
    When you post, people will state opposing ideas. If you decide to argue those points, it's your responsibility. Debating ideas is not the same as attacking someone. If you don't want people to continue a discussion, I would suggest not debating every different idea, or not posting in general. Your choice. When you present an idea, people have the ability and the right to disagree or agree with you. You can't tell them they're wrong and shut down the interaction. It's a discussion.
    Good luck with your ideas.

    At no point did I say that the discussion needs to be shut down. I didn't say that you need to stop talking. I said that, when you state a reason that something wouldn't work, the person who came up with the idea is going to want the last word. This is true in every way. I said that if you want the discussion to end, it's your job to end it, since I'm not going to let you have the final word on if my idea is good or not. I never said that you couldn't disagree with me. What I said is that if you publicly disagree with me, I'm going to have a rebuttal. If you don't want me to have a rebuttal, then don't talk. You were the first to dispute my idea, and I didn't say you had to walk away. I just said that I'm not walking away until you do.
  • Options
    GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 36,306 ★★★★★
    edited May 2017
    A Retry Button defeats the purpose of having an RNG. It's an idea. Just not one that is feasible in my opinion.

    It doesn't defeat the purpose of anything. It's a backup plan that you don't have to invest in. Sort of like a low-scale insurance. Someone may be concerned about their car breaking down or being wrecked, so they save up for insurance. That's basically all it is: insurance for if something bad happens.

    Actually, it does. It defeats the purpose of the Crystals. They are a guarantee to a chance. It wouldn't be a chance if we were rolling until we got the outcome we wanted.

    This isn't true. Have you ever seen those videos on YouTube? The "3000 Crystal Opening!!!" ones? That's the exact same thing on a larger scale. Buying multiple crystals and retrying specific crystals are just alternate forms of each other. Buying multiple costs more but gives you the rewards no matter what, while retrying costs less with less rewards. I in no way see how this would be bad for the Contest.

    I would have to disagree with that. The Drop Rate does not change with multiple Crystals. You just get more chances. Let's say the Drop Rate for 4*'s is 0.01%. (No idea what it is. Just an example.). If you have 3500 Crystals, that's not the same as retrying the same Crystal. It actually means you have 3500 chances at 0.01%. The odds don't increase.
    Now, if you have one Crystal that you continually try, you are generating a random outcome multiple times just the same, so the odds of getting what you want do not increase either. However, it contradicts the entire point of playing for Crystals. People would keep spinning the same ones. Either way, it defeats the purpose of having a random outcome and trying again with another Crystal. There would be no point of having another RNG if people wanted to spin until theY got what they wanted.

    I know the Drop Rate doesn't change. I never said it did or should. If you get something bad, you want a do-over. It's the same odds as buying another separate crystal, but with a lower price and lower overall rewards. You want a do-over if you get something bad in most cases, so this could help people. It in no way would harm anyone. If you don't want to do it, then don't. Don't say it's a bad idea because you personally wouldn't do it, though. Just say that don't find it effective for you and your situation, and move on. Don't continue arguing against someone's opinion. People's opinion's differ, and I disagree with you. Just because you don't find it helpful to you doesn't mean that I or others can't find it helpful to them.

    Actually, I stated my opinion and you disputed it.

    Here's the thing: If someone has an idea, and you disagree with it, they'll want the last word. This is true for almost everyone across every thread. If you dispute their idea, then they will rebuttal you. At that point, it's an endless loop of firing by you and defense by them. Only when you stop firing will I put my shield down. If I put my shield down before you're done firing, it looks like you've proven my point wrong and irrelevant. This is true for everyone. If you attack a thread, it's your responsibility to back off. Not that you should have to, but you can't expect the argument to end until you decide to end it. The person who started the thread will ALWAYS want the last word, or their idea looks weak. I'm defending my point. Please stop starting these endless cycles of you attacking, them defending, and then you blaming them for the whole debate that ensues. I'm happy to debate you on this topic, as well as many others, but if you're doing the attacking, you can't expect me to end it.

    That makes absolutely no sense. First you dispute my feedback, then you tell me to walk away. That's one-sided at best.
    When you post, people will state opposing ideas. If you decide to argue those points, it's your responsibility. Debating ideas is not the same as attacking someone. If you don't want people to continue a discussion, I would suggest not debating every different idea, or not posting in general. Your choice. When you present an idea, people have the ability and the right to disagree or agree with you. You can't tell them they're wrong and shut down the interaction. It's a discussion.
    Good luck with your ideas.

    At no point did I say that the discussion needs to be shut down. I didn't say that you need to stop talking. I said that, when you state a reason that something wouldn't work, the person who came up with the idea is going to want the last word. This is true in every way. I said that if you want the discussion to end, it's your job to end it, since I'm not going to let you have the final word on if my idea is good or not. I never said that you couldn't disagree with me. What I said is that if you publicly disagree with me, I'm going to have a rebuttal. If you don't want me to have a rebuttal, then don't talk. You were the first to dispute my idea, and I didn't say you had to walk away. I just said that I'm not walking away until you do.
    You told me not to continue arguing agaisnt someone's opinion. Apparently you're not aware of how a debate works. Someone states a view. If someone disagrees, it can be left at that. If not, another states why they disagree. The conversation is a give and take. One of my comments posted 3 times. Not much I can do about a server issue.
    At this point, you're going in circles. I stated that I disagreed with the reasons. If you chose to debate that, it is your choice. You cannot accuse someone of arguing when you chose to initiate a debate. A Forum is not a one-sided conversation. You can't control the responses people have when they disagree with the points you make. Since I'm not interested in arguing for nothing, we will end it here.
  • Options
    CrusherOfDreamsCrusherOfDreams Posts: 1,370 ★★★
    A Retry Button defeats the purpose of having an RNG. It's an idea. Just not one that is feasible in my opinion.

    It doesn't defeat the purpose of anything. It's a backup plan that you don't have to invest in. Sort of like a low-scale insurance. Someone may be concerned about their car breaking down or being wrecked, so they save up for insurance. That's basically all it is: insurance for if something bad happens.

    Actually, it does. It defeats the purpose of the Crystals. They are a guarantee to a chance. It wouldn't be a chance if we were rolling until we got the outcome we wanted.

    This isn't true. Have you ever seen those videos on YouTube? The "3000 Crystal Opening!!!" ones? That's the exact same thing on a larger scale. Buying multiple crystals and retrying specific crystals are just alternate forms of each other. Buying multiple costs more but gives you the rewards no matter what, while retrying costs less with less rewards. I in no way see how this would be bad for the Contest.

    I would have to disagree with that. The Drop Rate does not change with multiple Crystals. You just get more chances. Let's say the Drop Rate for 4*'s is 0.01%. (No idea what it is. Just an example.). If you have 3500 Crystals, that's not the same as retrying the same Crystal. It actually means you have 3500 chances at 0.01%. The odds don't increase.
    Now, if you have one Crystal that you continually try, you are generating a random outcome multiple times just the same, so the odds of getting what you want do not increase either. However, it contradicts the entire point of playing for Crystals. People would keep spinning the same ones. Either way, it defeats the purpose of having a random outcome and trying again with another Crystal. There would be no point of having another RNG if people wanted to spin until theY got what they wanted.

    I know the Drop Rate doesn't change. I never said it did or should. If you get something bad, you want a do-over. It's the same odds as buying another separate crystal, but with a lower price and lower overall rewards. You want a do-over if you get something bad in most cases, so this could help people. It in no way would harm anyone. If you don't want to do it, then don't. Don't say it's a bad idea because you personally wouldn't do it, though. Just say that don't find it effective for you and your situation, and move on. Don't continue arguing against someone's opinion. People's opinion's differ, and I disagree with you. Just because you don't find it helpful to you doesn't mean that I or others can't find it helpful to them.

    Actually, I stated my opinion and you disputed it.

    Here's the thing: If someone has an idea, and you disagree with it, they'll want the last word. This is true for almost everyone across every thread. If you dispute their idea, then they will rebuttal you. At that point, it's an endless loop of firing by you and defense by them. Only when you stop firing will I put my shield down. If I put my shield down before you're done firing, it looks like you've proven my point wrong and irrelevant. This is true for everyone. If you attack a thread, it's your responsibility to back off. Not that you should have to, but you can't expect the argument to end until you decide to end it. The person who started the thread will ALWAYS want the last word, or their idea looks weak. I'm defending my point. Please stop starting these endless cycles of you attacking, them defending, and then you blaming them for the whole debate that ensues. I'm happy to debate you on this topic, as well as many others, but if you're doing the attacking, you can't expect me to end it.

    That makes absolutely no sense. First you dispute my feedback, then you tell me to walk away. That's one-sided at best.
    When you post, people will state opposing ideas. If you decide to argue those points, it's your responsibility. Debating ideas is not the same as attacking someone. If you don't want people to continue a discussion, I would suggest not debating every different idea, or not posting in general. Your choice. When you present an idea, people have the ability and the right to disagree or agree with you. You can't tell them they're wrong and shut down the interaction. It's a discussion.
    Good luck with your ideas.

    At no point did I say that the discussion needs to be shut down. I didn't say that you need to stop talking. I said that, when you state a reason that something wouldn't work, the person who came up with the idea is going to want the last word. This is true in every way. I said that if you want the discussion to end, it's your job to end it, since I'm not going to let you have the final word on if my idea is good or not. I never said that you couldn't disagree with me. What I said is that if you publicly disagree with me, I'm going to have a rebuttal. If you don't want me to have a rebuttal, then don't talk. You were the first to dispute my idea, and I didn't say you had to walk away. I just said that I'm not walking away until you do.
    You told me not to continue arguing agaisnt someone's opinion. Apparently you're not aware of how a debate works. Someone states a view. If someone disagrees, it can be left at that. If not, another states why they disagree. The conversation is a give and take. One of my comments posted 3 times. Not much I can do about a server issue.
    At this point, you're going in circles. I stated that I disagreed with the reasons. If you chose to debate that, it is your choice. You cannot accuse someone of arguing when you chose to initiate a debate. A Forum is not a one-sided conversation. You can't control the responses people have when they disagree with the points you make. Since I'm not interested in arguing for nothing, we will end it here.

    I don't think I told you to stop arguing. If I did, my reasoning is that you tend to continue arguments, then complain that they are still going. If you don't want to argue, then don't. Thank you for ending the discussion.
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