Lets get back on track. I don't want this discussion to get shut down. Stick on topic.
I would much rather Kabam finish their update with Cull, Human Torch, Annihulus, Colossus, and Old man Logan before having new polls and waiting for changes. This is probably why the updates take so long, too much going on at once. 6 months is way too long.
This is an important point. If were just taking this list of six champs (and ignoring for the moment the previous list which they said they would get to as well or were still on the docket for changes)...and give them lets say 5 months generously instead of how long this one took, we would be getting all six champs reworked by...January of 2021. Add in the other champs they listed on that same time schedule and that would take us two more years out, to 2023. Think about how much this game has changed in the last 5 years alone, that's talking about 4 years from now and not even touching all the champs who haven't made it onto an official list to be looked at, like magneto for example.
This does not seem like a good timetable or something that should get people excited when they're pulling these champs as a five and six star champion. As much as these reworks have been a gift to the community, I really REALLY wish they had a way to speed things up. I've suggested going back to small changes instead of top to bottom reworks - at least that would give them some extra juice until they are able to do a beta program finally for them. Gamora was some small changes but made her a lot better just from that. There's quite a few champs that could probably just need some extra attack damage to at least be somewhat viable - karnak as a six star champion with a little better damage wouldn't make me disappointed when I just pulled him from my latest 6 star crystal. Instead, he's not been on either list and I'm guessing it's gonna be YEARS before I would even be able to use him for anything beyond arena.
I don't think this is an unreasonable request or something we shouldn't be able to talk about or get some insight from Kabam about.
While i would love to keep my Cull Obsidian as he is now, i must admit it's damage output is really high ! With 10 charges and its root buff i could destroy any champion en EQ Master in less than 10 hits by placing some nice armor break debuff (i could go up to 9). Even uncollected EQ boss went down quite easily
And my Cull is an undupped 5 star Rank 4... i can only imagine what a full duped 5 stars Rank 5 or 6 stars Rank 2 could do !!!
One way to limit its damage output without utterly destroying him would be to limit the number of armor break debuffs. on the first fight you can hardly get more than 4 or 5 armor break before the first debuff expire, but with 10 charges you can easily go to 9 + armor break reducing the opponent's armor by 12 600 !!!! Maybe limiting the stack of armor break to 3 or 4 would limit the max damage output without destroying the champion as he would still be one of the best damage dealer
He is useless in high tier AQ or AW as he takes extreme chip damage, lacks utility, and ramps up too slowly to be used in anything outside of EQ.
Simple fix would be to buff his BP, give him an immunity, or other utility (heal, power gain/drain, etc) and cap his armor breaks at 5. Prevents the extreme damage Kabam is somehow afraid of... while improving the character. I would not complain regarding this change... hopefully Kabam realizes how important their change announcement is to the future of people spending in this game.
I must say I have saved alot of money since she hulk got nerfed, after that happened there were awesome champs getting nerfed left and right, i just stopped spending money on acquiring new champs and i must say i know for a fact i am FAR from being the only one that has stopped spending during this Rebalancing Fiasco, instead of rebalancing new champs down how about rebalancing old champs up to make them closer to average, how about moving average up instead of constantly releasing new champs and than throwing them into the pit when you want to make your next new champ shine.
@BriceMiester please tell me which champs they nerfed since she Hulk. I'm interested in knowing which ones they nerfed left and right. I think the rest of us missed those nerfs so please be kind and tell us of all these nerfs that happened after she Hulk.
I must say I have saved alot of money since she hulk got nerfed, after that happened there were awesome champs getting nerfed left and right, i just stopped spending money on acquiring new champs and i must say i know for a fact i am FAR from being the only one that has stopped spending during this Rebalancing Fiasco, instead of rebalancing new champs down how about rebalancing old champs up to make them closer to average, how about moving average up instead of constantly releasing new champs and than throwing them into the pit when you want to make your next new champ shine.
@BriceMiester please tell me which champs they nerfed since she Hulk. I'm interested in knowing which ones they nerfed left and right. I think the rest of us missed those nerfs so please be kind and tell us of all these nerfs that happened after she Hulk.
There was the nerf to Sym supremes description and oh... he’s still bugged. Then they announced Culls damage will be reduced. They nerfed the heavy attacks of 10+ champs They nerfed Hoods ability to chain combos with 2 Medium/dash attacks (MLLLM-MLLLM)
Sym Supreme wasnt working right even when his discription said 100% so never really a nerf and it would have been too OP anyway. I mean 100% to stagger on parry. Its fine at 50% and i have a R5 SS.
Theyve announced a possible tweak to Cull. Doesnt count as it hasn't happened.
To be fair, the community made the 10+ champs get fixed by whining and crying about the she Hulk thing. Plus who actually uses those champs any way, save for Luke Cage and he doesn't need it.
Pretty sure no champ is supposed to be able to chain 10 hits together. Imagine if the A.I could do it often. Pretty sure everyone would be up in arms saying how unfair the A.I. is.
So the only champ in that could be considered a "nerf" is cull. Everything else were fixes whether everyone can accept it or not. We still dont know what they'll do with Cull.
I just want to say I told you this was an a clear error in the announcement, for everyone who automatically threw on the cape to justify it is wrong.
With that being said he wants to work on more transparency on exactly what the changes will be with the champions upfront and he talked about Culls survivability possibly changing. All good news moving foreard.
While i would love to keep my Cull Obsidian as he is now, i must admit it's damage output is really high ! With 10 charges and its root buff i could destroy any champion en EQ Master in less than 10 hits by placing some nice armor break debuff (i could go up to 9). Even uncollected EQ boss went down quite easily
And my Cull is an undupped 5 star Rank 4... i can only imagine what a full duped 5 stars Rank 5 or 6 stars Rank 2 could do !!!
One way to limit its damage output without utterly destroying him would be to limit the number of armor break debuffs. on the first fight you can hardly get more than 4 or 5 armor break before the first debuff expire, but with 10 charges you can easily go to 9 + armor break reducing the opponent's armor by 12 600 !!!! Maybe limiting the stack of armor break to 3 or 4 would limit the max damage output without destroying the champion as he would still be one of the best damage dealer
I feel this is probably one of the best solutions Cull will still have insane burst damage
There was a nerf to his Description? How does that work? They announced Cull was displaying more than any other high-end Champ. Bug fixes.
Refusal to fix a bug is in my opinion a nerf
Refusal to fix a bug. Welp...there was no bug. They discussed changing him, but he would be too strong that way, so they fixed the text error. Also not what a nerf is.
Maybe I heard him wrong and someone can clarify, but it sounded like he said they would be looking at having someone in charge working on overseeing balance updates.
Does this mean that there isn't someone in charge of it now?
I would love some insight on how things are structured over there. If no one up until now was overseeing any of this, it could explain some of the breakdown in communication we've seen.
It's nice to have it officially acknowledged that they messed up on this announcement. Everything he said was correct though - being clearer in their descriptions, what's going to change, providing evidence of the issue they're wanting to change, explaining why, etc.
I would love for those who are working on this for Cull now to do all of that with this issue. It would go a long way to calming some of the nerves that have been frayed over the initial announcement. Or if it's not ready, at least tell us it's not and give an estimate on when we can expect some more details and reasoning. And hopefully going forward that issue is fixed and prevents this from happening again. Just glad to hear someone high up confirm all of it.
Maybe I heard him wrong and someone can clarify, but it sounded like he said they would be looking at having someone in charge working on overseeing balance updates.
Does this mean that there isn't someone in charge of it now?
I would love some insight on how things are structured over there. If no one up until now was overseeing any of this, it could explain some of the breakdown in communication we've seen.
It's nice to have it officially acknowledged that they messed up on this announcement. Everything he said was correct though - being clearer in their descriptions, what's going to change, providing evidence of the issue they're wanting to change, explaining why, etc.
I would love for those who are working on this for Cull now to do all of that with this issue. It would go a long way to calming some of the nerves that have been frayed over the initial announcement. Or if it's not ready, at least tell us it's not and give an estimate on when we can expect some more details and reasoning. And hopefully going forward that issue is fixed and prevents this from happening again. Just glad to hear someone high up confirm all of it.
I think it means to streamline the process more. I'm sure there is someone in charge but they might also head several other projects at the same time which splits focus.
@Demonzfyre that makes sense. It was just refreshing to hear them speak candidly about it all and the process and I kind of hope that we get a little more of that on here. I think getting in front of a lot of the announcements like this would save them and the community so much time and energy and hassle. I would still love to have someone from the team answer this, and maybe give us a confirmation that we're gonna get some explanations like he was speaking of for this whole Cull thing. I know a lot of people have gone back and forth on here about "data" and he even said in the video that actually showing people what they were talking about was a goal, so when it's a controversial decision like this one clearly was, it could prevent this huge backlash every time. But i've been saying that for years now. A lot of times it's not the actual change or decision they're making that's the issue, it's the way its communicated and the messaging when it drops. Just my two cents
I will agree that more information would have prevented some of the reactions, but people were asking to see the code here and verify their findings. Lol. I think there's going to be a reaction to a certain extent no matter what they offer. I'm always for being more open, though. More is more when it comes to information.
I'm really happy to see the announcement that just came out and that they will be presenting the data when things are announced to the community. Which i think is what a lot of people here were asking for. Good decision Kabam, thank you for listening to the community
I think that it's a step in the right direction, I would think that this implies that the post-release team - or whoever studies the data and gameplay of champions after release is being expanded and proper procedures being put in play to monitor the champions.
The idea of greater communication and transparency between Kabam and the player base is fantastic, I would say that much of the ill will that is put forward on these forums is a result of poor communication and the venting of frustration; hopefully this will prevent a lot of that and we can have active, more meaningful interactions with Kabam employees.
@Demonzfyre that makes sense. It was just refreshing to hear them speak candidly about it all and the process and I kind of hope that we get a little more of that on here. I think getting in front of a lot of the announcements like this would save them and the community so much time and energy and hassle. I would still love to have someone from the team answer this, and maybe give us a confirmation that we're gonna get some explanations like he was speaking of for this whole Cull thing. I know a lot of people have gone back and forth on here about "data" and he even said in the video that actually showing people what they were talking about was a goal, so when it's a controversial decision like this one clearly was, it could prevent this huge backlash every time. But i've been saying that for years now. A lot of times it's not the actual change or decision they're making that's the issue, it's the way its communicated and the messaging when it drops. Just my two cents
I agree with that. They aren't always as detailed as they could've been on a few of the announcements. It is the main reason why i've been saying wait until they give us more info this whole time.
How is kicking the can down to December help me in making a rank up decision in any way whatsoever?
How is this being hailed as a good thing?! The uncertainty has just been extended ffs
They also said they would be gathering information on all the Champs and posting the proposed changes on here, allowing people to give feedback before they go live.
Maybe I heard him wrong and someone can clarify, but it sounded like he said they would be looking at having someone in charge working on overseeing balance updates.
Does this mean that there isn't someone in charge of it now?
Based on the limited information previously available, I was under the impression that there are multiple content designers that make champions and a champion review would basically be handled by the designer(s) of the champion. It is possible that the reviews are currently handled as part of the individual champions creation process and not as a separate thing unto itself, in which case there wouldn't necessarily be someone "in charge" of the balancing processes taken as a whole.
In other words, I think the person in charge of making champion X is also in charge of any post launch tuning after the initial review, but that would be different people for different champions.
So here are my thoughts regarding the latest announcement "Balance Changes Pause": I still think you are missing the point... with the risk of you changing a champ without issuing Rank-Down-Ticket or any compensation, why should i rank up the champ i like and trust you that the change is going to be too minor? Maybe (just maybe) a top tier player that has many rank up material wouldn't change his mind regarding ranking up a champ with small change in his ability, but for others (me included) it's a big deal. we don't earn these rank up material fast enough and we spend a lot of thought before we rank a champ... sometimes we almost have a "tie" between ranking up two champs and this small change you are doing could've changed our decision. in my opinion, the decision if to rank down a champ that his ability changed is up to us and only us. I still can't risk spending my resources for a champ that his ability is going to be change soon. Personally, I'll choose to wait with rank ups until I hear from you what the final verdict of each champ.
Read my post earlier a week ago I called it with the balance changes. All the people who said public feedback doesn't matter please take the time to admit you were wrong even though I know you won't.
This is the right direction moving forward and obviously best for the game.
Comments
This does not seem like a good timetable or something that should get people excited when they're pulling these champs as a five and six star champion. As much as these reworks have been a gift to the community, I really REALLY wish they had a way to speed things up. I've suggested going back to small changes instead of top to bottom reworks - at least that would give them some extra juice until they are able to do a beta program finally for them. Gamora was some small changes but made her a lot better just from that. There's quite a few champs that could probably just need some extra attack damage to at least be somewhat viable - karnak as a six star champion with a little better damage wouldn't make me disappointed when I just pulled him from my latest 6 star crystal. Instead, he's not been on either list and I'm guessing it's gonna be YEARS before I would even be able to use him for anything beyond arena.
I don't think this is an unreasonable request or something we shouldn't be able to talk about or get some insight from Kabam about.
While i would love to keep my Cull Obsidian as he is now, i must admit it's damage output is really high !
With 10 charges and its root buff i could destroy any champion en EQ Master in less than 10 hits by placing some nice armor break debuff (i could go up to 9). Even uncollected EQ boss went down quite easily
And my Cull is an undupped 5 star Rank 4... i can only imagine what a full duped 5 stars Rank 5 or 6 stars Rank 2 could do !!!
One way to limit its damage output without utterly destroying him would be to limit the number of armor break debuffs. on the first fight you can hardly get more than 4 or 5 armor break before the first debuff expire, but with 10 charges you can easily go to 9 + armor break reducing the opponent's armor by 12 600 !!!! Maybe limiting the stack of armor break to 3 or 4 would limit the max damage output without destroying the champion as he would still be one of the best damage dealer
He is useless in high tier AQ or AW as he takes extreme chip damage, lacks utility, and ramps up too slowly to be used in anything outside of EQ.
Simple fix would be to buff his BP, give him an immunity, or other utility (heal, power gain/drain, etc) and cap his armor breaks at 5. Prevents the extreme damage Kabam is somehow afraid of... while improving the character. I would not complain regarding this change... hopefully Kabam realizes how important their change announcement is to the future of people spending in this game.
They announced Cull was displaying more than any other high-end Champ.
Bug fixes.
Theyve announced a possible tweak to Cull. Doesnt count as it hasn't happened.
To be fair, the community made the 10+ champs get fixed by whining and crying about the she Hulk thing. Plus who actually uses those champs any way, save for Luke Cage and he doesn't need it.
Pretty sure no champ is supposed to be able to chain 10 hits together. Imagine if the A.I could do it often. Pretty sure everyone would be up in arms saying how unfair the A.I. is.
So the only champ in that could be considered a "nerf" is cull. Everything else were fixes whether everyone can accept it or not. We still dont know what they'll do with Cull.
With that being said he wants to work on more transparency on exactly what the changes will be with the champions upfront and he talked about Culls survivability possibly changing. All good news moving foreard.
Cull will still have insane burst damage
Also not what a nerf is.
Does this mean that there isn't someone in charge of it now?
I would love some insight on how things are structured over there. If no one up until now was overseeing any of this, it could explain some of the breakdown in communication we've seen.
It's nice to have it officially acknowledged that they messed up on this announcement. Everything he said was correct though - being clearer in their descriptions, what's going to change, providing evidence of the issue they're wanting to change, explaining why, etc.
I would love for those who are working on this for Cull now to do all of that with this issue. It would go a long way to calming some of the nerves that have been frayed over the initial announcement. Or if it's not ready, at least tell us it's not and give an estimate on when we can expect some more details and reasoning. And hopefully going forward that issue is fixed and prevents this from happening again. Just glad to hear someone high up confirm all of it.
I'm always for being more open, though. More is more when it comes to information.
The idea of greater communication and transparency between Kabam and the player base is fantastic, I would say that much of the ill will that is put forward on these forums is a result of poor communication and the venting of frustration; hopefully this will prevent a lot of that and we can have active, more meaningful interactions with Kabam employees.
Here’s the post relevant to the discussion.
Dr. Zola
In other words, I think the person in charge of making champion X is also in charge of any post launch tuning after the initial review, but that would be different people for different champions.
I still think you are missing the point...
with the risk of you changing a champ without issuing Rank-Down-Ticket or any compensation, why should i rank up the champ i like and trust you that the change is going to be too minor?
Maybe (just maybe) a top tier player that has many rank up material wouldn't change his mind regarding ranking up a champ with small change in his ability, but for others (me included) it's a big deal.
we don't earn these rank up material fast enough and we spend a lot of thought before we rank a champ... sometimes we almost have a "tie" between ranking up two champs and this small change you are doing could've changed our decision.
in my opinion, the decision if to rank down a champ that his ability changed is up to us and only us.
I still can't risk spending my resources for a champ that his ability is going to be change soon.
Personally, I'll choose to wait with rank ups until I hear from you what the final verdict of each champ.
This is the right direction moving forward and obviously best for the game.