Deliberate Special Holding is Killing Arena

WingsMJN5692WingsMJN5692 Member Posts: 143 ★★★
in General Discussion
This started a month or two ago, and I dunno what they tweaked with the program, but it's making arena pretty unbearable to play.

There's absolutely nothing fun about taking zero hits from a defender, baiting for two minutes to no avail, and then getting one-shot KOed by a special 3.
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Comments

  • Marri_2Marri_2 Member Posts: 577 ★★★
    Never have this problem. But then again, I use my lower rank champs for the rampup and the harder bit I do with maxed rank or maxed rank-1 champs. Always gets me Thanos/Kang teams and they are easy.
  • DNA3000DNA3000 Member, Guardian Posts: 19,658 Guardian
    WingsMJN5692 said:

    DNA3000 said:

    WingsMJN5692 said:

    This started a month or two ago, and I dunno what they tweaked with the program, but it's making arena pretty unbearable to play.

    There's absolutely nothing fun about taking zero hits from a defender, baiting for two minutes to no avail, and then getting one-shot KOed by a special 3.

    I'd like to see a video of the AI being that stingy. The arena AI does vary slightly over time, but I personally haven't seen anything that dramatic, and for as long as I've been tracking arena scores and cutoffs it seems arena participation has been increasing both in terms of numbers and scores, so it seems the majority of players aren't seeing that dramatic of a problem either. If it is happening, it is happening to a very small percentage of players.
    It's been happening for a few months now.
    People have been saying its been happening for a few months now, for over two years now. I mean literally you can find posts last year saying the exact thing you're describing just started happening "a few months ago."

    The way I play arena, if it was happening widespread I would very likely run into it because I use completely different streak strategies for every single arena I participate in, some of which deliberately draw hard matches between rounds seven and fifteen. So it can't be widespread. So posting videos of the behavior is important, because most people aren't seeing what the people complaining about the behavior are seeing, or everyone is seeing it but don't think it is as much of a problem as the people complaining about the behavior are describing. But there's zero chance that the majority of players are being afflicted by this problem to this degree, and have been for "a few months" now.

    I could post videos of my arena play, but someone would just say I was one of the "lucky few" that aren't seeing the problem. So it is up to the players complaining about the issue to post video evidence of it that can be analyzed to see if the problem is in the game behaving completely differently, or something different about how the players play the game, or something else entirely.
  • GimmeCullGimmeCull Member Posts: 52 ★
    I too have narrowed it down to around match up 6 to 7. Though sometimes the fifth can be tricky.

    But even when sandbagging or using full teams of level 30 3* champs (or level 20 4* champs), the opposition is labelled easy but it is damn near impossible.

    It gradually becomes a mismatch and where no amount of skill in the world can beat the teams.

    The AI does hold onto its special and will demolish you with it when you get its health bar down to the last hit.

    I've turned the game off so many times because of it. (I turn it off when it becomes frustrating).
  • Thi101Thi101 Member Posts: 807 ★★★
    What I find strange is that even when they are at the same power rate as your champs, their SP3 demolishes you, while your SP3 barely scratches them
  • GimmeCullGimmeCull Member Posts: 52 ★
    I have had this happen numerous times.

    You'll have the opponent (similar level) to 25 percent health with yours being around 30 to 40 percent. You fire off your third which leaves them with 1 to 5 percent health. AI immediately hits their third before you can scramble over to finish them off and its game over.

    The AI definitely hits harder point for point. In all modes. Its very unbalanced.
  • GimmeCullGimmeCull Member Posts: 52 ★
    And when I say similar level, it can mean anywhere between a couple points difference to 10 or 20.
  • KattohSKattohS Member Posts: 717 ★★
    DNA3000 said:

    WingsMJN5692 said:

    DNA3000 said:

    WingsMJN5692 said:

    This started a month or two ago, and I dunno what they tweaked with the program, but it's making arena pretty unbearable to play.

    There's absolutely nothing fun about taking zero hits from a defender, baiting for two minutes to no avail, and then getting one-shot KOed by a special 3.

    I'd like to see a video of the AI being that stingy. The arena AI does vary slightly over time, but I personally haven't seen anything that dramatic, and for as long as I've been tracking arena scores and cutoffs it seems arena participation has been increasing both in terms of numbers and scores, so it seems the majority of players aren't seeing that dramatic of a problem either. If it is happening, it is happening to a very small percentage of players.
    It's been happening for a few months now.
    People have been saying its been happening for a few months now, for over two years now. I mean literally you can find posts last year saying the exact thing you're describing just started happening "a few months ago."

    The way I play arena, if it was happening widespread I would very likely run into it because I use completely different streak strategies for every single arena I participate in, some of which deliberately draw hard matches between rounds seven and fifteen. So it can't be widespread. So posting videos of the behavior is important, because most people aren't seeing what the people complaining about the behavior are seeing, or everyone is seeing it but don't think it is as much of a problem as the people complaining about the behavior are describing. But there's zero chance that the majority of players are being afflicted by this problem to this degree, and have been for "a few months" now.

    I could post videos of my arena play, but someone would just say I was one of the "lucky few" that aren't seeing the problem. So it is up to the players complaining about the issue to post video evidence of it that can be analyzed to see if the problem is in the game behaving completely differently, or something different about how the players play the game, or something else entirely.
    It would be interesting to know how often summoners actually tape fights.
  • LormifLormif Member Posts: 7,369 ★★★★★
    KattohS said:

    DNA3000 said:

    WingsMJN5692 said:

    DNA3000 said:

    WingsMJN5692 said:

    This started a month or two ago, and I dunno what they tweaked with the program, but it's making arena pretty unbearable to play.

    There's absolutely nothing fun about taking zero hits from a defender, baiting for two minutes to no avail, and then getting one-shot KOed by a special 3.

    I'd like to see a video of the AI being that stingy. The arena AI does vary slightly over time, but I personally haven't seen anything that dramatic, and for as long as I've been tracking arena scores and cutoffs it seems arena participation has been increasing both in terms of numbers and scores, so it seems the majority of players aren't seeing that dramatic of a problem either. If it is happening, it is happening to a very small percentage of players.
    It's been happening for a few months now.
    People have been saying its been happening for a few months now, for over two years now. I mean literally you can find posts last year saying the exact thing you're describing just started happening "a few months ago."

    The way I play arena, if it was happening widespread I would very likely run into it because I use completely different streak strategies for every single arena I participate in, some of which deliberately draw hard matches between rounds seven and fifteen. So it can't be widespread. So posting videos of the behavior is important, because most people aren't seeing what the people complaining about the behavior are seeing, or everyone is seeing it but don't think it is as much of a problem as the people complaining about the behavior are describing. But there's zero chance that the majority of players are being afflicted by this problem to this degree, and have been for "a few months" now.

    I could post videos of my arena play, but someone would just say I was one of the "lucky few" that aren't seeing the problem. So it is up to the players complaining about the issue to post video evidence of it that can be analyzed to see if the problem is in the game behaving completely differently, or something different about how the players play the game, or something else entirely.
    It would be interesting to know how often summoners actually tape fights.
    at high levels pretty often, my alliance requires recording AW for self reflection to see what you did wrong, it translates into keeping other things, you never know when you need to review footage to see if something is a bug or not.
  • MΛSSΛCREMΛSSΛCRE Member Posts: 101 ★
    I try to bait sp1, I’ve noticed some of the harder matchups get very stingy once they have 2 bars of power. I’ve had to tank sp3 and hope for the best quite often. It does seem to be worse in the 6-7 win streak
  • KattohSKattohS Member Posts: 717 ★★
    Lormif said:

    KattohS said:

    DNA3000 said:

    WingsMJN5692 said:

    DNA3000 said:

    WingsMJN5692 said:

    This started a month or two ago, and I dunno what they tweaked with the program, but it's making arena pretty unbearable to play.

    There's absolutely nothing fun about taking zero hits from a defender, baiting for two minutes to no avail, and then getting one-shot KOed by a special 3.

    I'd like to see a video of the AI being that stingy. The arena AI does vary slightly over time, but I personally haven't seen anything that dramatic, and for as long as I've been tracking arena scores and cutoffs it seems arena participation has been increasing both in terms of numbers and scores, so it seems the majority of players aren't seeing that dramatic of a problem either. If it is happening, it is happening to a very small percentage of players.
    It's been happening for a few months now.
    People have been saying its been happening for a few months now, for over two years now. I mean literally you can find posts last year saying the exact thing you're describing just started happening "a few months ago."

    The way I play arena, if it was happening widespread I would very likely run into it because I use completely different streak strategies for every single arena I participate in, some of which deliberately draw hard matches between rounds seven and fifteen. So it can't be widespread. So posting videos of the behavior is important, because most people aren't seeing what the people complaining about the behavior are seeing, or everyone is seeing it but don't think it is as much of a problem as the people complaining about the behavior are describing. But there's zero chance that the majority of players are being afflicted by this problem to this degree, and have been for "a few months" now.

    I could post videos of my arena play, but someone would just say I was one of the "lucky few" that aren't seeing the problem. So it is up to the players complaining about the issue to post video evidence of it that can be analyzed to see if the problem is in the game behaving completely differently, or something different about how the players play the game, or something else entirely.
    It would be interesting to know how often summoners actually tape fights.
    at high levels pretty often, my alliance requires recording AW for self reflection to see what you did wrong, it translates into keeping other things, you never know when you need to review footage to see if something is a bug or not.
    Agreed....

    However AQ & AW are a set number of fights while arena is different. A lot of “glitches” happen in arena wether persons consider it conspiracy or not without a video. At one point I faced the updated spider Gwen in arenas often and noticed her SP1 animation was different from mines in arena. I always said I would tape it but only ever remembered after she triggered it.

    Arena is already considered “boring” by most so imagine throwing in taping fights in the mix.

  • BadroseBadrose Member Posts: 779 ★★★
    WingsMJN5692 said:

    This started a month or two ago, and I dunno what they tweaked with the program, but it's making arena pretty unbearable to play.

    There's absolutely nothing fun about taking zero hits from a defender, baiting for two minutes to no avail, and then getting one-shot KOed by a special 3.

    It started way more than 1 or 2 months ago, I think it started when they introduced the featured arenas. Personally I don't have particular problem as I save power drain (or extra damage) champions for round 9 >
  • UnknownUnknown
    This content has been removed.
  • DNA3000DNA3000 Member, Guardian Posts: 19,658 Guardian
    Thi101 said:

    What I find strange is that even when they are at the same power rate as your champs, their SP3 demolishes you, while your SP3 barely scratches them

    I have never seen that before, in an apples to apples fight. However, be aware that many arena grinders use suicides, and that means their champs will have suicide masteries when you face them in the arena, and that means their attack will be higher than yours and their special attacks will hit harder than yours, if you don't use suicides.
  • DNA3000DNA3000 Member, Guardian Posts: 19,658 Guardian
    GimmeCull said:

    I too have narrowed it down to around match up 6 to 7. Though sometimes the fifth can be tricky.

    I have literally never seen anything like this happen so early. It makes me wonder if this is partially a question of your team selection. Which arena is this happening in, and can you tell me exactly what team composition you're using for the first seven rounds? Star, rank, PI, the whole thing. There must be a way to generate "hard" fights that low, but I'm not even sure I can do it deliberately, especially not at round five.
  • CsuttonCsutton Member Posts: 225 ★★
    WingsMJN5692 said:

    This started a month or two ago, and I dunno what they tweaked with the program, but it's making arena pretty unbearable to play.

    There's absolutely nothing fun about taking zero hits from a defender, baiting for two minutes to no avail, and then getting one-shot KOed by a special 3.

    Wow. Sooo true. It’s def changed. Makes it no fun, actually quite frustrating.
  • phil56201phil56201 Member Posts: 986 ★★★
    I grind every arena pretty much every cycle and have noticed no changes. If anyone is getting deathmatches at any point during the streak, it means it's being done wrong. There are formulas for every arena to avoid these. But the higher tier the arena, the higher ranked champions it needs to avoid these deathmatches.

    Around matches 11-13 is where the biggest difficulty spike occurs and if you don't have high enough ranked champions to power thru these matches, this is where sandbagging will get you thru.
  • phil56201phil56201 Member Posts: 986 ★★★
    DNA3000 said:

    GimmeCull said:

    I too have narrowed it down to around match up 6 to 7. Though sometimes the fifth can be tricky.

    I have literally never seen anything like this happen so early. It makes me wonder if this is partially a question of your team selection. Which arena is this happening in, and can you tell me exactly what team composition you're using for the first seven rounds? Star, rank, PI, the whole thing. There must be a way to generate "hard" fights that low, but I'm not even sure I can do it deliberately, especially not at round five.
    I have seen that happen before. It's usually when you bring in 1 or 2 r4's and maybe a r3 or 2 of whatever tier arena your grinding in. Been a long time since Ive seen that, though, since I always play my r3 teams thru match 10.
  • xNigxNig Member Posts: 7,330 ★★★★★
    Easy solution would be just to use a high enough ranked champ to tank the sp3 or a power control.
  • DNA3000DNA3000 Member, Guardian Posts: 19,658 Guardian
    phil56201 said:

    DNA3000 said:

    GimmeCull said:

    I too have narrowed it down to around match up 6 to 7. Though sometimes the fifth can be tricky.

    I have literally never seen anything like this happen so early. It makes me wonder if this is partially a question of your team selection. Which arena is this happening in, and can you tell me exactly what team composition you're using for the first seven rounds? Star, rank, PI, the whole thing. There must be a way to generate "hard" fights that low, but I'm not even sure I can do it deliberately, especially not at round five.
    I have seen that happen before. It's usually when you bring in 1 or 2 r4's and maybe a r3 or 2 of whatever tier arena your grinding in. Been a long time since Ive seen that, though, since I always play my r3 teams thru match 10.
    I'm going to go into the 4* featured which I haven't started yet and see if I can deliberately break my streak in round 6 (or after round 5) by putting in the worst guys I have and see what happens.
  • UnknownUnknown
    This content has been removed.
  • phil56201phil56201 Member Posts: 986 ★★★
    DNA3000 said:

    phil56201 said:

    DNA3000 said:

    GimmeCull said:

    I too have narrowed it down to around match up 6 to 7. Though sometimes the fifth can be tricky.

    I have literally never seen anything like this happen so early. It makes me wonder if this is partially a question of your team selection. Which arena is this happening in, and can you tell me exactly what team composition you're using for the first seven rounds? Star, rank, PI, the whole thing. There must be a way to generate "hard" fights that low, but I'm not even sure I can do it deliberately, especially not at round five.
    I have seen that happen before. It's usually when you bring in 1 or 2 r4's and maybe a r3 or 2 of whatever tier arena your grinding in. Been a long time since Ive seen that, though, since I always play my r3 teams thru match 10.
    I'm going to go into the 4* featured which I haven't started yet and see if I can deliberately break my streak in round 6 (or after round 5) by putting in the worst guys I have and see what happens.
    Well, I think it's pretty safe to say that even if you do get something overpowered, if you are experienced enough, you should be able to get thru regardless. I can usually handle the occasional deathmatch I trigger on my self by mindlessly forming teams and forgetting to make sure my teams PI is high enough.

  • CsuttonCsutton Member Posts: 225 ★★
    phil56201 said:

    I grind every arena pretty much every cycle and have noticed no changes. If anyone is getting deathmatches at any point during the streak, it means it's being done wrong. There are formulas for every arena to avoid these. But the higher tier the arena, the higher ranked champions it needs to avoid these deathmatches.

    Around matches 11-13 is where the biggest difficulty spike occurs and if you don't have high enough ranked champions to power thru these matches, this is where sandbagging will get you thru.

    Well thank you for assuming ignorance smh.... but you’re wrong. Nobody mentioned death matches.

    What they were referring to is like having all 6*, against Kangs 6* (which are r5) - usually only goes on bw streak of 10-15.... many times lately, it’s just dance around baiting for minutes without them throwing a single special - never touching block, hitting into their blocks, etc... just so they can throw their s3 when they’re at 2% hp and ko a 6*.

    I too have played arena a lot. I’ve been an mcoc player since Dec 2015. This is a new issue, several have mentioned it, including some youtubers.
  • DNA3000DNA3000 Member, Guardian Posts: 19,658 Guardian
    phil56201 said:

    DNA3000 said:

    phil56201 said:

    DNA3000 said:

    GimmeCull said:

    I too have narrowed it down to around match up 6 to 7. Though sometimes the fifth can be tricky.

    I have literally never seen anything like this happen so early. It makes me wonder if this is partially a question of your team selection. Which arena is this happening in, and can you tell me exactly what team composition you're using for the first seven rounds? Star, rank, PI, the whole thing. There must be a way to generate "hard" fights that low, but I'm not even sure I can do it deliberately, especially not at round five.
    I have seen that happen before. It's usually when you bring in 1 or 2 r4's and maybe a r3 or 2 of whatever tier arena your grinding in. Been a long time since Ive seen that, though, since I always play my r3 teams thru match 10.
    I'm going to go into the 4* featured which I haven't started yet and see if I can deliberately break my streak in round 6 (or after round 5) by putting in the worst guys I have and see what happens.
    Well, I think it's pretty safe to say that even if you do get something overpowered, if you are experienced enough, you should be able to get thru regardless. I can usually handle the occasional deathmatch I trigger on my self by mindlessly forming teams and forgetting to make sure my teams PI is high enough.

    I've pulled out some death match rounds, but I was just trying to see if I could pull a hard fight at all, and I failed completely. I did the 4* featured up to round 5, then put my lowest 4* champs into the fight (which would be round 6). We're talking rank 1s and rank 2s. And it didn't give me a hard fight. I did it again in round 7 (i.e. the next round) with some rank 2s and a rank 3 and I still couldn't get the game to hand me any hard fights at all. Just for reference, here those rounds are:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jRsyLoQoZHI
    I recorded the fights so people can observe it isn't just that the PI is low, the AI is fighting "normally" and the fights are fights the average player could be expected to win. I also did this again in rounds 8 and 9, but for some reason my iPhone failed to record. It seems to be an iOS13 glitch, ever since that update sometimes I start recordings and they silently fail to record anything, or even indicate it was ever recording. In any case, those were rank 3 4*s on my side, and things went more or less the same.
  • DNA3000DNA3000 Member, Guardian Posts: 19,658 Guardian
    Csutton said:

    phil56201 said:

    I grind every arena pretty much every cycle and have noticed no changes. If anyone is getting deathmatches at any point during the streak, it means it's being done wrong. There are formulas for every arena to avoid these. But the higher tier the arena, the higher ranked champions it needs to avoid these deathmatches.

    Around matches 11-13 is where the biggest difficulty spike occurs and if you don't have high enough ranked champions to power thru these matches, this is where sandbagging will get you thru.

    Well thank you for assuming ignorance smh.... but you’re wrong. Nobody mentioned death matches.

    What they were referring to is like having all 6*, against Kangs 6* (which are r5) - usually only goes on bw streak of 10-15.... many times lately, it’s just dance around baiting for minutes without them throwing a single special - never touching block, hitting into their blocks, etc... just so they can throw their s3 when they’re at 2% hp and ko a 6*.

    I too have played arena a lot. I’ve been an mcoc player since Dec 2015. This is a new issue, several have mentioned it, including some youtubers.
    If a youtuber has seen it, surely there must be video evidence of it somewhere. I would like to see a link of it happening so I can try to reproduce the precise circumstances of it happening.
  • CsuttonCsutton Member Posts: 225 ★★
    Any good player can handle death matches IF YOU CAN BAIT SPECIALS. With all the issues in game it’s rather short sighted of you to assume those discussing these issues are just not as good as you.... which is highly unlikely.
  • phil56201phil56201 Member Posts: 986 ★★★
    DNA3000 said:

    phil56201 said:

    DNA3000 said:

    phil56201 said:

    DNA3000 said:

    GimmeCull said:

    I too have narrowed it down to around match up 6 to 7. Though sometimes the fifth can be tricky.

    I have literally never seen anything like this happen so early. It makes me wonder if this is partially a question of your team selection. Which arena is this happening in, and can you tell me exactly what team composition you're using for the first seven rounds? Star, rank, PI, the whole thing. There must be a way to generate "hard" fights that low, but I'm not even sure I can do it deliberately, especially not at round five.
    I have seen that happen before. It's usually when you bring in 1 or 2 r4's and maybe a r3 or 2 of whatever tier arena your grinding in. Been a long time since Ive seen that, though, since I always play my r3 teams thru match 10.
    I'm going to go into the 4* featured which I haven't started yet and see if I can deliberately break my streak in round 6 (or after round 5) by putting in the worst guys I have and see what happens.
    Well, I think it's pretty safe to say that even if you do get something overpowered, if you are experienced enough, you should be able to get thru regardless. I can usually handle the occasional deathmatch I trigger on my self by mindlessly forming teams and forgetting to make sure my teams PI is high enough.

    I've pulled out some death match rounds, but I was just trying to see if I could pull a hard fight at all, and I failed completely. I did the 4* featured up to round 5, then put my lowest 4* champs into the fight (which would be round 6). We're talking rank 1s and rank 2s. And it didn't give me a hard fight. I did it again in round 7 (i.e. the next round) with some rank 2s and a rank 3 and I still couldn't get the game to hand me any hard fights at all. Just for reference, here those rounds are:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jRsyLoQoZHI
    I recorded the fights so people can observe it isn't just that the PI is low, the AI is fighting "normally" and the fights are fights the average player could be expected to win. I also did this again in rounds 8 and 9, but for some reason my iPhone failed to record. It seems to be an iOS13 glitch, ever since that update sometimes I start recordings and they silently fail to record anything, or even indicate it was ever recording. In any case, those were rank 3 4*s on my side, and things went more or less the same.
    I tried too. In 5* featured. Formed some of the dumbest teams i could think of and just couldnt lose.



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