Armor Shattered - Still gaining power
Nooowbie
Member Posts: 7 ★
In EQ Quest 3 (Uncollected difficulty), Ultron is still gaining power when Medusa's Armor Shatter should have stopped the power gain by 100%. Please help me understand why this occurred?
There's a node that defender increases it's power gain by 60% (?) when below X bar of power.
https://youtu.be/_WMyHb-GecU
There's a node that defender increases it's power gain by 60% (?) when below X bar of power.
https://youtu.be/_WMyHb-GecU 1
Comments
The PowerGain node gives Ultron MORE than 100%, and Medusa only reduces it by 100% (subtraction, not multiplication), so Ultron still does have some amount of PowerGain (he is not at 0).
Ultron 100% shouldn't be gaining power if all his abilities are shut down bc shatter. Nebula doesn't as AQ MiniB. Maybe that node is bugged or her armor shatter can't interact with it. I'm still confused about what's definitively correct. Lol
In general when abilities and effects apply "percentage" modifiers, that is based on the base value of the thing being modified. In other words, there's an invisible phrase at the end of every description which goes "...of base value."
So Armor Shatter reduces power gain by 100% of base value. The power gain node increases power gain by 60% of base value. That I think makes it more clear what's going on. Ultron has some base power gain amount, which is (obviously) 100% of base value. Armor Shatter reduces that value by 100% of the base value. But the node increases Ultron's power gain by 60% of the base value. These do not completely offset to zero.
In your opinion, should players be able to reverse healing? Because healing reversal relies on this same behavior. If you apply a 50% healing debuff and then another 50% healing debuff and then another 50% healing debuff, do you expect the healing to be -50% (100-50-50-50)? Or do you expect it to be 12.5% (0.5x0.5x0.5)? How about ability accuracy? When Archangel lands a -35% Ability Accuracy debuff with neurotoxin, and then another -35%, and then another -35%, do you expect ability accuracy to be (basically) zero (100-35-35-35), or do you expect it to be 27% (0.65x0.65x0.65)?
Players think this is perfectly fine when it works in their favor, and it does most of the time. Take away this "-100% effect" and you will take away all these other things as well, because multiplicative stacking does both simultaneously. You can't have one without the other.
I’m still straining through my magnifying glass to see where it says “base” Power Gain in there.
Dr. Zola
“...reducing AA and PG by 100%”
If you want to argue that the description is ambiguous or unclear that's another story: I've been having that argument with game developers for longer than many of the MCOC players have been alive. Game developers for some reason don't seem to "get" this or almost never seem to think it is important enough to address systematically.
There is a reason for this: it isn't just a strange game developer conspiracy. I believe it is a side effect of how games are developed. Games always lie. Nothing ever actually happens as described. Game engines implement a set of mechanics, and then developers create the effects players see out of those Legos. So game developers already have a sense that they shouldn't be telling players what is actually happening, but rather a kindergarten simplified version of what's happening.
A bleed is an effect applied to a target that ticks damage. That's a lie. A bleed is actually modifier triggered on the attacker that has a damage whose target is flagged to be the attacker's opponent. Should players be told that? Probably not: its just confusing for no purpose. But then developers (in my opinion) get lazy, and decide that "-50%" is "close enough" without having to clarify what the percentage means.
They should stop brutalizing percentages and language like this. If it's meant to negate power gain effects, then say that. If node effects can't have their accuracy adjusted, then say that.
And Medusas shatter prevents power gain yet Ultron is gaining power. Exactly my point. Preventing something reduces the chance to 0. No matter how many times you multiply 0 it’s still 0
This isn't calculated "wrong." This is simply how the mechanics work. Moreover, this how I would expect these mechanics to work.
We can argue if the English text description is ambiguous. But knowing how it actually works, and more importantly what the intent was, the calculations are correct. You can reduce power gain by a number, or you can absolutely stop it. Both effects exist in the game. When the game uses the latter, power gain should be stopped. When the game uses the former, power gain should still be possible if a counter-acting buff overwhelms the debuff. This is not just how players generally expect things to work, in general this is a good game design principle to honor. Debuffs shouldn't behave one way when they have any value from 1 to 99, and then suddenly work differently when they have a value of 100. That's bad design.
I wish you were in charge of champion descriptions. I swear there’d be so much less confusion 😂
The best I can do is explain what the game does, and what the game intends, which is not always the same thing but is usually in the same zip code. But I'm on record as saying the in-game descriptions are plagued with problems. The best any of us can do is explain to players what we know the game does, and at least in some cases explain why it isn't a bad thing that the game does that thing. The descriptions might be confusing, but there's often some actual logic behind why the game mechanics were chosen to work in a particular way.
Agreed 100% without ability reduction 😂
There’s way too many errors in descriptions and confusing wordings
speaking of translated descriptions though, i'll just say that the heimdall/thor synergy still says "... regenerate 15% of health", missing the word... well, "missing" XD
(or are you literally talking about in some foreign language translations, and not just how we “translate” things in our own head into how we “want” them to read)
People might me able to send them a direct msg with specific language translation problems like that. If you tell them which language.