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Alliance War Matchmaking unfair [Merged Threads]

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  • QuikPikQuikPik Member Posts: 821 ★★★★
    Meanwhile my test alliance gets a match against someone with 400 less war rating and a full 3 tiers away !
  • UnknownUnknown
    This content has been removed.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Member Posts: 36,726 ★★★★★
    edited April 2020
    Onmix said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    Mr_Platypus said:

    Midknight007 said:

    If anything. Kabam should make divisions.... Elite 9000+, Veteran 6000-8999, Experienced 3000-5999, Beginner below 3000. Each can have its own brackets with appropriate rewards. This Prestige-based free for all will just mean AW will slowly die, as higher alliance will stop buying boost and pots for mediocre rewards.

    This sounds like the best of both worlds tbh.
    It means there’s no massive mismatches, everyone fights equal opponents for rewards that their opponents are also fightng for.
    Separating Rewards based on Prestige was a thought that occured to me. You could actually go so far as to have a separate Rewards Tier for each Prestige Bracket. Different Top Prizes. A bit more complex, but a possibility. Although I still maintain that Rewards should be dependent on performance. Just because stronger Champs are being used to fight stronger Champs doesn't mean the War perfomance is necessarily better.
    I’ve been reading your comments and I really don’t get it.
    There’s an ally with 4* that plays only against 4*. And they get, let’s say, Plat 1 rewards. In your opinion that’s ok because FOR THEM the war was as difficult as someone with 6* playing against 6*?

    If that’s what you’re saying. I don’t agree. In the least.
    But let me ask you this. Those with big rosters didn’t get there by chance. Either time or money was spent to get where they are. So, why does someone that hasn’t spent the same amount deserve the same rewards?
    My point is this. It’s not like because someone has R5/R2 champs, wars against R5/R2 are easier for them. They need to keep grinding and/or spending to have the best defenders, the best counters, etc
    How can that level of playing (doing every month what is required to stay there) be the same as someone with 4* only?

    Using War Rating only guarantees that you place where your wins/loses got you. And you’ll play against alliances in the exact same situation. There will be an adjustment period but it’s a needed one. The same as high prestige allies are suffering now against alliances that are way over their league.
    Absolutely. It did when Allies weren't riding the system like a Xylophone because Season Points were tied into it. Then it became a way to manipulate the strengths of Matches for easy Wins and a small Points boost. That affects the whole system. Not just the Allies that have to be ambushed by them. It screws the whole system to the point where it's no longer an accurate and true measure of strength based on ability. What people seem to be blind to is an Ally is only capable of a certain limit based on the highest they're using. Prestige has been a measure of this in AQ for as long as the game has existed. It's not just about arbitrary number. It's a numerical indicator of strength. Within War, no matter how skilled you are, if you vary too far from that, a Win is not possible. For Allies that like those easy Wins, that's not a problem. To an Ally trying to accumulate Points for their own Season growth, it's devastating. In terms of even Matches, that's a true measure of skill. I'm sure some people believe a 6* vs. 6* War is harder and deserves more Rewards. What isn't being acknowledged is that it's even. It's easier to fight a 6* with a 6* than it is with a 4*. Once again, you're comparing another Alliance's War based on your own point of growth and calling it easier. You can't judge that based on where you're at. A 6* is higher in Rarity than a 4*, yes. A 4* fighting a 4* is not easier than a 6* fighting a 6*. Not in the overall sense. Fair is fair and proportional challenges are proportional challenges. Then what you are left with is a true measure of WAR skill. The scoring and progress is based on fair Matches and where an Alliance ends up is based on how they perform within the War constructs. Not having the same Champs doesn't mean they can't be equally as skilled. Sorry, I'm not agreeing with the old mentality that the people with the most deserve to be the top and get the most because that much depends on performance. It's not what you have. It's how well you use it.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Member Posts: 36,726 ★★★★★
    When you overpower Allies beyond the point of what they have a fighting chance to win, that's wrong.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Member Posts: 36,726 ★★★★★
    That's precisely why I have to keep reiterating myself.
  • Dsc0721Dsc0721 Member Posts: 83 ★
    The match making system was already broken, what your seeing is a correction, many not all but many of the alliances that are taking beatings right now are victims of that system being fixed. The system won’t ever be perfect especially so long as people manipulate it for favorable match ups but the normal tiering and progression through the war tiers wasn’t what it should have been. Some alliances are in free fall and some are sky rocketing. Everyone will be where they should be until people begin manipulating the system again. I’m sure some already are.
  • Gregdagr8Gregdagr8 Member Posts: 385 ★★★
    So lets consider this. I get together 30 end game players. We all create alt accounts. All we do is open up 3* Crystals and get 15-20 ranked up 3*. We never open a 4* or 5* crystal. We then go into war and we are fighting other alliances that literally just started playing the game with only 3*. Being experienced players, we would decimate people that just started playing. Are people in here cool with that? You all cool with a 3* alt alliance taking home master/plat rewards? Because that is what prestige wars allow.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Member Posts: 36,726 ★★★★★
    Care to point out the 3* Alliance taking home Master Rewards? You can say what you want about the size of their Accounts, but you don't get up there just because your Matches are easy. They fight their way up. Sorry to burst the ego bubble. Especially with Defense Tactics now. You don't get up there without earning your way there.
  • UnknownUnknown
    This content has been removed.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Member Posts: 36,726 ★★★★★
    The real truth of that analogy is Allies threatening to cheat the system in a new way is NOT a reason to allow them to cheat it in another way. That's not being competitive. That's greed and entitlement. Some Allies aren't pleased enough with what they earn, they have to ruin it for everyone else and occupy the entire Leaderboard. That's not a fair competition at all. I'm honestly discouraged at how what's fair seems so foreign. That just indicates how long the system hasn't been fair.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Member Posts: 36,726 ★★★★★
    hungryhungrybbq said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    Care to point out the 3* Alliance taking home Master Rewards? You can say what you want about the size of their Accounts, but you don't get up there just because your Matches are easy. They fight their way up. Sorry to burst the ego bubble. Especially with Defense Tactics now. You don't get up there without earning your way there.

    That's exactly it.. they don't "fight their way up". They continue to receive easy matches indefinitely. No matter how many times they win. While higher prestige alliances continue to receive tougher matches indefinitely... no matter how many times they lose. What your suggesting only makes sense if the war seasons are actually separated by divisions. Each with rewards appropriate for their progression level. Since that is not how it currently works, and there are no divisions..your theory is invalid. No matter how many times you repeat the same thing over and over.

    Newer players are the most entitled I've ever seen them. They want to bypass all the work that older players have put in. It's mad. I see posts with people asking for advice on act 4. And they have multiple 3/45 and 5/50 champs! Anyone who used 3/30 and 4/40 2015 and 2016 champs to explore act 4 will know exactly what I mean. It's crazy.
    And now newer players (who haven't even been around long enough to know *why* prestige matching is such a problem) are raising heck because they think they're entitled to earn better rewards than veteran players who have played for years and not even have to actually face them to do it?
    This entitled mentality needs to stop. I believe we actually need *more* rewards/gifts to be progression based. It will actually ruin the game for you if you get too much, too early. You won't learn the skills and puzzle solving ability that you learn from experience playing the game with the champs and resources it's tuned for.
    Easy for who? Everyone with a stronger Roster? That's not easy for them.
  • Gregdagr8Gregdagr8 Member Posts: 385 ★★★
    I'm in a couple recruitment chat rooms. It's already going around. These allies want no more than 6k prestige alt accounts of good, experienced players. You are never allowed to go above 6k prestige and they are going to try and take home master rewards. You will see a lot more alliances poping up doing this. You just wait.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Member Posts: 36,726 ★★★★★
    The more people that cheat the system, the more they're going to ruin it for everyone. "Give us what we want and let us be bullies or we will find another way to take it.".
  • hungryhungrybbqhungryhungrybbq Member Posts: 2,243 ★★★★★
    edited April 2020
    GroundedWisdom said:

    hungryhungrybbq said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    Care to point out the 3* Alliance taking home Master Rewards? You can say what you want about the size of their Accounts, but you don't get up there just because your Matches are easy. They fight their way up. Sorry to burst the ego bubble. Especially with Defense Tactics now. You don't get up there without earning your way there.

    That's exactly it.. they don't "fight their way up". They continue to receive easy matches indefinitely. No matter how many times they win. While higher prestige alliances continue to receive tougher matches indefinitely... no matter how many times they lose. What your suggesting only makes sense if the war seasons are actually separated by divisions. Each with rewards appropriate for their progression level. Since that is not how it currently works, and there are no divisions..your theory is invalid. No matter how many times you repeat the same thing over and over.

    Newer players are the most entitled I've ever seen them. They want to bypass all the work that older players have put in. It's mad. I see posts with people asking for advice on act 4. And they have multiple 3/45 and 5/50 champs! Anyone who used 3/30 and 4/40 2015 and 2016 champs to explore act 4 will know exactly what I mean. It's crazy.
    And now newer players (who haven't even been around long enough to know *why* prestige matching is such a problem) are raising heck because they think they're entitled to earn better rewards than veteran players who have played for years and not even have to actually face them to do it?
    This entitled mentality needs to stop. I believe we actually need *more* rewards/gifts to be progression based. It will actually ruin the game for you if you get too much, too early. You won't learn the skills and puzzle solving ability that you learn from experience playing the game with the champs and resources it's tuned for.
    Easy for who? Everyone with a stronger Roster? That's not easy for them.
    Please further define what you mean by this response. Can't believe I just said that 😅
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Member Posts: 36,726 ★★★★★
    hungryhungrybbq said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    hungryhungrybbq said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    Care to point out the 3* Alliance taking home Master Rewards? You can say what you want about the size of their Accounts, but you don't get up there just because your Matches are easy. They fight their way up. Sorry to burst the ego bubble. Especially with Defense Tactics now. You don't get up there without earning your way there.

    That's exactly it.. they don't "fight their way up". They continue to receive easy matches indefinitely. No matter how many times they win. While higher prestige alliances continue to receive tougher matches indefinitely... no matter how many times they lose. What your suggesting only makes sense if the war seasons are actually separated by divisions. Each with rewards appropriate for their progression level. Since that is not how it currently works, and there are no divisions..your theory is invalid. No matter how many times you repeat the same thing over and over.

    Newer players are the most entitled I've ever seen them. They want to bypass all the work that older players have put in. It's mad. I see posts with people asking for advice on act 4. And they have multiple 3/45 and 5/50 champs! Anyone who used 3/30 and 4/40 2015 and 2016 champs to explore act 4 will know exactly what I mean. It's crazy.
    And now newer players (who haven't even been around long enough to know *why* prestige matching is such a problem) are raising heck because they think they're entitled to earn better rewards than veteran players who have played for years and not even have to actually face them to do it?
    This entitled mentality needs to stop. I believe we actually need *more* rewards/gifts to be progression based. It will actually ruin the game for you if you get too much, too early. You won't learn the skills and puzzle solving ability that you learn from experience playing the game with the champs and resources it's tuned for.
    Easy for who? Everyone with a stronger Roster? That's not easy for them.
    Please further define what you mean by this response. Can't believe I just said that 😅
    Sorry, I already elaborated on how one level of progress can't dictate what's hard for another.
  • Midknight007Midknight007 Member Posts: 770 ★★★
    GroundedWisdom said:

    Onmix said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    Mr_Platypus said:

    Midknight007 said:

    If anything. Kabam should make divisions.... Elite 9000+, Veteran 6000-8999, Experienced 3000-5999, Beginner below 3000. Each can have its own brackets with appropriate rewards. This Prestige-based free for all will just mean AW will slowly die, as higher alliance will stop buying boost and pots for mediocre rewards.

    This sounds like the best of both worlds tbh.
    It means there’s no massive mismatches, everyone fights equal opponents for rewards that their opponents are also fightng for.
    Separating Rewards based on Prestige was a thought that occured to me. You could actually go so far as to have a separate Rewards Tier for each Prestige Bracket. Different Top Prizes. A bit more complex, but a possibility. Although I still maintain that Rewards should be dependent on performance. Just because stronger Champs are being used to fight stronger Champs doesn't mean the War perfomance is necessarily better.
    I’ve been reading your comments and I really don’t get it.
    There’s an ally with 4* that plays only against 4*. And they get, let’s say, Plat 1 rewards. In your opinion that’s ok because FOR THEM the war was as difficult as someone with 6* playing against 6*?

    If that’s what you’re saying. I don’t agree. In the least.
    But let me ask you this. Those with big rosters didn’t get there by chance. Either time or money was spent to get where they are. So, why does someone that hasn’t spent the same amount deserve the same rewards?
    My point is this. It’s not like because someone has R5/R2 champs, wars against R5/R2 are easier for them. They need to keep grinding and/or spending to have the best defenders, the best counters, etc
    How can that level of playing (doing every month what is required to stay there) be the same as someone with 4* only?

    Using War Rating only guarantees that you place where your wins/loses got you. And you’ll play against alliances in the exact same situation. There will be an adjustment period but it’s a needed one. The same as high prestige allies are suffering now against alliances that are way over their league.
    Absolutely. It did when Allies weren't riding the system like a Xylophone because Season Points were tied into it. Then it became a way to manipulate the strengths of Matches for easy Wins and a small Points boost. That affects the whole system. Not just the Allies that have to be ambushed by them. It screws the whole system to the point where it's no longer an accurate and true measure of strength based on ability. What people seem to be blind to is an Ally is only capable of a certain limit based on the highest they're using. Prestige has been a measure of this in AQ for as long as the game has existed. It's not just about arbitrary number. It's a numerical indicator of strength. Within War, no matter how skilled you are, if you vary too far from that, a Win is not possible. For Allies that like those easy Wins, that's not a problem. To an Ally trying to accumulate Points for their own Season growth, it's devastating. In terms of even Matches, that's a true measure of skill. I'm sure some people believe a 6* vs. 6* War is harder and deserves more Rewards. What isn't being acknowledged is that it's even. It's easier to fight a 6* with a 6* than it is with a 4*. Once again, you're comparing another Alliance's War based on your own point of growth and calling it easier. You can't judge that based on where you're at. A 6* is higher in Rarity than a 4*, yes. A 4* fighting a 4* is not easier than a 6* fighting a 6*. Not in the overall sense. Fair is fair and proportional challenges are proportional challenges. Then what you are left with is a true measure of WAR skill. The scoring and progress is based on fair Matches and where an Alliance ends up is based on how they perform within the War constructs. Not having the same Champs doesn't mean they can't be equally as skilled. Sorry, I'm not agreeing with the old mentality that the people with the most deserve to be the top and get the most because that much depends on performance. It's not what you have. It's how well you use it.
    Problem with your logic... Prestige has been a measure of AQ... and you got more points for each fight in AQ for the higher difficult. You do not get higher points based on the difficult prestige of the Alliance you fight in AW. A 4* alliance gets the same points for clearing a boss and for each attack bonus despite playing in a largely FTP and mediocre pool of alliances.

    It is not a measure of skill, nor are larger alliances awarded based on their cost in pots, boosts or revives (even via loyalty and glory). No matter if it is 4* vs 4*, it takes a lot less resources to heal a 4*. Not to mention that many of the lower prestige alliances are completely FTP and can’t/won’t clear a map. You do not find that with alliances 9500+ Prestige. Matches are always close, and every tries to win at all costs.

    You can not compare the two, and a 6000 prestige alliance with only 4*’s does deserve the same points. There are too many variables that you are overlooking out of convenience of your argument. Like I said before, going the Prestige matches will kill AW.

    It isn’t how well you use it if most alliances 6000-7000 can’t complete a map. Half can’t run Map 5 in AQ... do they deserve the same points for what they can fight in AQ to make it “more fair”. Harder matchups should have higher points awarded. PERIOD.
  • UnknownUnknown
    This content has been removed.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Member Posts: 36,726 ★★★★★
    Midknight007 said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    Onmix said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    Mr_Platypus said:

    Midknight007 said:

    If anything. Kabam should make divisions.... Elite 9000+, Veteran 6000-8999, Experienced 3000-5999, Beginner below 3000. Each can have its own brackets with appropriate rewards. This Prestige-based free for all will just mean AW will slowly die, as higher alliance will stop buying boost and pots for mediocre rewards.

    This sounds like the best of both worlds tbh.
    It means there’s no massive mismatches, everyone fights equal opponents for rewards that their opponents are also fightng for.
    Separating Rewards based on Prestige was a thought that occured to me. You could actually go so far as to have a separate Rewards Tier for each Prestige Bracket. Different Top Prizes. A bit more complex, but a possibility. Although I still maintain that Rewards should be dependent on performance. Just because stronger Champs are being used to fight stronger Champs doesn't mean the War perfomance is necessarily better.
    I’ve been reading your comments and I really don’t get it.
    There’s an ally with 4* that plays only against 4*. And they get, let’s say, Plat 1 rewards. In your opinion that’s ok because FOR THEM the war was as difficult as someone with 6* playing against 6*?

    If that’s what you’re saying. I don’t agree. In the least.
    But let me ask you this. Those with big rosters didn’t get there by chance. Either time or money was spent to get where they are. So, why does someone that hasn’t spent the same amount deserve the same rewards?
    My point is this. It’s not like because someone has R5/R2 champs, wars against R5/R2 are easier for them. They need to keep grinding and/or spending to have the best defenders, the best counters, etc
    How can that level of playing (doing every month what is required to stay there) be the same as someone with 4* only?

    Using War Rating only guarantees that you place where your wins/loses got you. And you’ll play against alliances in the exact same situation. There will be an adjustment period but it’s a needed one. The same as high prestige allies are suffering now against alliances that are way over their league.
    Absolutely. It did when Allies weren't riding the system like a Xylophone because Season Points were tied into it. Then it became a way to manipulate the strengths of Matches for easy Wins and a small Points boost. That affects the whole system. Not just the Allies that have to be ambushed by them. It screws the whole system to the point where it's no longer an accurate and true measure of strength based on ability. What people seem to be blind to is an Ally is only capable of a certain limit based on the highest they're using. Prestige has been a measure of this in AQ for as long as the game has existed. It's not just about arbitrary number. It's a numerical indicator of strength. Within War, no matter how skilled you are, if you vary too far from that, a Win is not possible. For Allies that like those easy Wins, that's not a problem. To an Ally trying to accumulate Points for their own Season growth, it's devastating. In terms of even Matches, that's a true measure of skill. I'm sure some people believe a 6* vs. 6* War is harder and deserves more Rewards. What isn't being acknowledged is that it's even. It's easier to fight a 6* with a 6* than it is with a 4*. Once again, you're comparing another Alliance's War based on your own point of growth and calling it easier. You can't judge that based on where you're at. A 6* is higher in Rarity than a 4*, yes. A 4* fighting a 4* is not easier than a 6* fighting a 6*. Not in the overall sense. Fair is fair and proportional challenges are proportional challenges. Then what you are left with is a true measure of WAR skill. The scoring and progress is based on fair Matches and where an Alliance ends up is based on how they perform within the War constructs. Not having the same Champs doesn't mean they can't be equally as skilled. Sorry, I'm not agreeing with the old mentality that the people with the most deserve to be the top and get the most because that much depends on performance. It's not what you have. It's how well you use it.
    Problem with your logic... Prestige has been a measure of AQ... and you got more points for each fight in AQ for the higher difficult. You do not get higher points based on the difficult prestige of the Alliance you fight in AW. A 4* alliance gets the same points for clearing a boss and for each attack bonus despite playing in a largely FTP and mediocre pool of alliances.

    It is not a measure of skill, nor are larger alliances awarded based on their cost in pots, boosts or revives (even via loyalty and glory). No matter if it is 4* vs 4*, it takes a lot less resources to heal a 4*. Not to mention that many of the lower prestige alliances are completely FTP and can’t/won’t clear a map. You do not find that with alliances 9500+ Prestige. Matches are always close, and every tries to win at all costs.

    You can not compare the two, and a 6000 prestige alliance with only 4*’s does deserve the same points. There are too many variables that you are overlooking out of convenience of your argument. Like I said before, going the Prestige matches will kill AW.

    It isn’t how well you use it if most alliances 6000-7000 can’t complete a map. Half can’t run Map 5 in AQ... do they deserve the same points for what they can fight in AQ to make it “more fair”. Harder matchups should have higher points awarded. PERIOD.
    In War, you have the same Multipliers based on Tier. Again, when you're increasing things on the same scale, even Matches are about the same level of difficulty for an Ally using 5*s vs. 5*s as they are for an Ally using 6*s vs. 6*s. There's a bit of grey area there in terms of how many of each Rarity, etc. However the Map increases the strength of the Champs used in the same scale. A lower Alliance in T1-5 is playing the same "Map 7" as a higher Alliance. I don't know why I have to continue making this point, but even Matches are to scale for both Allies with 6*s as the 5*s, etc. It's based on what's being brought.
  • Gregdagr8Gregdagr8 Member Posts: 385 ★★★
    GroundedWisdom said:

    The more people that cheat the system, the more they're going to ruin it for everyone. "Give us what we want and let us be bullies or we will find another way to take it.".

    The funny thing is, they aren't doing it for the rewards. They doing it to try and get Kabam to stop doing prestige wars because it's not fair. They are trying to change matchmaking. And if I had a 6k alt account, I'd join them. I hope they can do it.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Member Posts: 36,726 ★★★★★
    You can't say they're getting easier Matches because they're only easier to you based on what you're bringing. God I hope this is clicking. I'm getting dizzy. XD
  • LordSmasherLordSmasher Member Posts: 1,613 ★★★★★
    Is it back to prestige again? Had 1 war where widely different but the last 2 are similar.
  • Midknight007Midknight007 Member Posts: 770 ★★★
    GroundedWisdom said:

    The real truth of that analogy is Allies threatening to cheat the system in a new way is NOT a reason to allow them to cheat it in another way. That's not being competitive. That's greed and entitlement. Some Allies aren't pleased enough with what they earn, they have to ruin it for everyone else and occupy the entire Leaderboard. That's not a fair competition at all. I'm honestly discouraged at how what's fair seems so foreign. That just indicates how long the system hasn't been fair.

    Dude off season tanking was stopped for tiers 1-4. Everyone else gains/loses half points. The only other issue would be a shell account, which still can be done. So ruin a whole part of a game for a few cheaters by forcing hard matches?

    No, come up with a more inventive way to stop shell alliances like any increase/change of membership of over 33% of members disqualifies the Alliance for AW for 1 whole season. Or switching an alliance penalizes the player 1 season of no AW rewards. This way switching or being kicked becomes a really important decision.

    Nothing will ever be 100% fair, but if Kabam wants to make money it would make a game more fair for those that keep the lights on and spend a lot more on AW. And I bet that is the players at the top, sorry.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Member Posts: 36,726 ★★★★★
    Gregdagr8 said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    The more people that cheat the system, the more they're going to ruin it for everyone. "Give us what we want and let us be bullies or we will find another way to take it.".

    The funny thing is, they aren't doing it for the rewards. They doing it to try and get Kabam to stop doing prestige wars because it's not fair. They are trying to change matchmaking. And if I had a 6k alt account, I'd join them. I hope they can do it.
    They're doing it for the same reason Prestige was used to begin with. They don't care about the rules or fairness. They think they own the board.
  • Midknight007Midknight007 Member Posts: 770 ★★★
    GroundedWisdom said:

    Midknight007 said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    Onmix said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    Mr_Platypus said:

    Midknight007 said:

    If anything. Kabam should make divisions.... Elite 9000+, Veteran 6000-8999, Experienced 3000-5999, Beginner below 3000. Each can have its own brackets with appropriate rewards. This Prestige-based free for all will just mean AW will slowly die, as higher alliance will stop buying boost and pots for mediocre rewards.

    This sounds like the best of both worlds tbh.
    It means there’s no massive mismatches, everyone fights equal opponents for rewards that their opponents are also fightng for.
    Separating Rewards based on Prestige was a thought that occured to me. You could actually go so far as to have a separate Rewards Tier for each Prestige Bracket. Different Top Prizes. A bit more complex, but a possibility. Although I still maintain that Rewards should be dependent on performance. Just because stronger Champs are being used to fight stronger Champs doesn't mean the War perfomance is necessarily better.
    I’ve been reading your comments and I really don’t get it.
    There’s an ally with 4* that plays only against 4*. And they get, let’s say, Plat 1 rewards. In your opinion that’s ok because FOR THEM the war was as difficult as someone with 6* playing against 6*?

    If that’s what you’re saying. I don’t agree. In the least.
    But let me ask you this. Those with big rosters didn’t get there by chance. Either time or money was spent to get where they are. So, why does someone that hasn’t spent the same amount deserve the same rewards?
    My point is this. It’s not like because someone has R5/R2 champs, wars against R5/R2 are easier for them. They need to keep grinding and/or spending to have the best defenders, the best counters, etc
    How can that level of playing (doing every month what is required to stay there) be the same as someone with 4* only?

    Using War Rating only guarantees that you place where your wins/loses got you. And you’ll play against alliances in the exact same situation. There will be an adjustment period but it’s a needed one. The same as high prestige allies are suffering now against alliances that are way over their league.
    Absolutely. It did when Allies weren't riding the system like a Xylophone because Season Points were tied into it. Then it became a way to manipulate the strengths of Matches for easy Wins and a small Points boost. That affects the whole system. Not just the Allies that have to be ambushed by them. It screws the whole system to the point where it's no longer an accurate and true measure of strength based on ability. What people seem to be blind to is an Ally is only capable of a certain limit based on the highest they're using. Prestige has been a measure of this in AQ for as long as the game has existed. It's not just about arbitrary number. It's a numerical indicator of strength. Within War, no matter how skilled you are, if you vary too far from that, a Win is not possible. For Allies that like those easy Wins, that's not a problem. To an Ally trying to accumulate Points for their own Season growth, it's devastating. In terms of even Matches, that's a true measure of skill. I'm sure some people believe a 6* vs. 6* War is harder and deserves more Rewards. What isn't being acknowledged is that it's even. It's easier to fight a 6* with a 6* than it is with a 4*. Once again, you're comparing another Alliance's War based on your own point of growth and calling it easier. You can't judge that based on where you're at. A 6* is higher in Rarity than a 4*, yes. A 4* fighting a 4* is not easier than a 6* fighting a 6*. Not in the overall sense. Fair is fair and proportional challenges are proportional challenges. Then what you are left with is a true measure of WAR skill. The scoring and progress is based on fair Matches and where an Alliance ends up is based on how they perform within the War constructs. Not having the same Champs doesn't mean they can't be equally as skilled. Sorry, I'm not agreeing with the old mentality that the people with the most deserve to be the top and get the most because that much depends on performance. It's not what you have. It's how well you use it.
    Problem with your logic... Prestige has been a measure of AQ... and you got more points for each fight in AQ for the higher difficult. You do not get higher points based on the difficult prestige of the Alliance you fight in AW. A 4* alliance gets the same points for clearing a boss and for each attack bonus despite playing in a largely FTP and mediocre pool of alliances.

    It is not a measure of skill, nor are larger alliances awarded based on their cost in pots, boosts or revives (even via loyalty and glory). No matter if it is 4* vs 4*, it takes a lot less resources to heal a 4*. Not to mention that many of the lower prestige alliances are completely FTP and can’t/won’t clear a map. You do not find that with alliances 9500+ Prestige. Matches are always close, and every tries to win at all costs.

    You can not compare the two, and a 6000 prestige alliance with only 4*’s does deserve the same points. There are too many variables that you are overlooking out of convenience of your argument. Like I said before, going the Prestige matches will kill AW.

    It isn’t how well you use it if most alliances 6000-7000 can’t complete a map. Half can’t run Map 5 in AQ... do they deserve the same points for what they can fight in AQ to make it “more fair”. Harder matchups should have higher points awarded. PERIOD.
    In War, you have the same Multipliers based on Tier. Again, when you're increasing things on the same scale, even Matches are about the same level of difficulty for an Ally using 5*s vs. 5*s as they are for an Ally using 6*s vs. 6*s. There's a bit of grey area there in terms of how many of each Rarity, etc. However the Map increases the strength of the Champs used in the same scale. A lower Alliance in T1-5 is playing the same "Map 7" as a higher Alliance. I don't know why I have to continue making this point, but even Matches are to scale for both Allies with 6*s as the 5*s, etc. It's based on what's being brought.
    Did you know that when Tier 1 matches a Tier 3, they play on the harder map and the lower team doesn’t get more points. Try again.

    Your logic is off.

    You have to continue making this point? Maybe it is because you are wrong? If everyone is telling you different, at when do you start to self reflect that maybe the issue is with you? Just a hint.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Member Posts: 36,726 ★★★★★
    Now, I'm not totally ignorant to the issue. If someone had said to me that Rewards should be scaled based on Prestige because it affects the rate of growth when they're too high for Allies not far along enough yet, I'd agree. No one has really made that point. So far, it's been the argument that they shouldn't be there, and I have very little tolerance for Allies organizing coups or breaking the rules. On that front, I'd ban them all if I could. That's not at all in the spirit of fairness.
  • Midknight007Midknight007 Member Posts: 770 ★★★
    GroundedWisdom said:

    You can't say they're getting easier Matches because they're only easier to you based on what you're bringing. God I hope this is clicking. I'm getting dizzy. XD

    Wrong... I can run all 4* against their 4* and shred most defenses. How many of those 6000-7000 player completed LOL or Act 6? Oh wait, they can’t even run act 6 with their 4*s. SMH
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Member Posts: 36,726 ★★★★★
    Midknight007 said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    Midknight007 said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    Onmix said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    Mr_Platypus said:

    Midknight007 said:

    If anything. Kabam should make divisions.... Elite 9000+, Veteran 6000-8999, Experienced 3000-5999, Beginner below 3000. Each can have its own brackets with appropriate rewards. This Prestige-based free for all will just mean AW will slowly die, as higher alliance will stop buying boost and pots for mediocre rewards.

    This sounds like the best of both worlds tbh.
    It means there’s no massive mismatches, everyone fights equal opponents for rewards that their opponents are also fightng for.
    Separating Rewards based on Prestige was a thought that occured to me. You could actually go so far as to have a separate Rewards Tier for each Prestige Bracket. Different Top Prizes. A bit more complex, but a possibility. Although I still maintain that Rewards should be dependent on performance. Just because stronger Champs are being used to fight stronger Champs doesn't mean the War perfomance is necessarily better.
    I’ve been reading your comments and I really don’t get it.
    There’s an ally with 4* that plays only against 4*. And they get, let’s say, Plat 1 rewards. In your opinion that’s ok because FOR THEM the war was as difficult as someone with 6* playing against 6*?

    If that’s what you’re saying. I don’t agree. In the least.
    But let me ask you this. Those with big rosters didn’t get there by chance. Either time or money was spent to get where they are. So, why does someone that hasn’t spent the same amount deserve the same rewards?
    My point is this. It’s not like because someone has R5/R2 champs, wars against R5/R2 are easier for them. They need to keep grinding and/or spending to have the best defenders, the best counters, etc
    How can that level of playing (doing every month what is required to stay there) be the same as someone with 4* only?

    Using War Rating only guarantees that you place where your wins/loses got you. And you’ll play against alliances in the exact same situation. There will be an adjustment period but it’s a needed one. The same as high prestige allies are suffering now against alliances that are way over their league.
    Absolutely. It did when Allies weren't riding the system like a Xylophone because Season Points were tied into it. Then it became a way to manipulate the strengths of Matches for easy Wins and a small Points boost. That affects the whole system. Not just the Allies that have to be ambushed by them. It screws the whole system to the point where it's no longer an accurate and true measure of strength based on ability. What people seem to be blind to is an Ally is only capable of a certain limit based on the highest they're using. Prestige has been a measure of this in AQ for as long as the game has existed. It's not just about arbitrary number. It's a numerical indicator of strength. Within War, no matter how skilled you are, if you vary too far from that, a Win is not possible. For Allies that like those easy Wins, that's not a problem. To an Ally trying to accumulate Points for their own Season growth, it's devastating. In terms of even Matches, that's a true measure of skill. I'm sure some people believe a 6* vs. 6* War is harder and deserves more Rewards. What isn't being acknowledged is that it's even. It's easier to fight a 6* with a 6* than it is with a 4*. Once again, you're comparing another Alliance's War based on your own point of growth and calling it easier. You can't judge that based on where you're at. A 6* is higher in Rarity than a 4*, yes. A 4* fighting a 4* is not easier than a 6* fighting a 6*. Not in the overall sense. Fair is fair and proportional challenges are proportional challenges. Then what you are left with is a true measure of WAR skill. The scoring and progress is based on fair Matches and where an Alliance ends up is based on how they perform within the War constructs. Not having the same Champs doesn't mean they can't be equally as skilled. Sorry, I'm not agreeing with the old mentality that the people with the most deserve to be the top and get the most because that much depends on performance. It's not what you have. It's how well you use it.
    Problem with your logic... Prestige has been a measure of AQ... and you got more points for each fight in AQ for the higher difficult. You do not get higher points based on the difficult prestige of the Alliance you fight in AW. A 4* alliance gets the same points for clearing a boss and for each attack bonus despite playing in a largely FTP and mediocre pool of alliances.

    It is not a measure of skill, nor are larger alliances awarded based on their cost in pots, boosts or revives (even via loyalty and glory). No matter if it is 4* vs 4*, it takes a lot less resources to heal a 4*. Not to mention that many of the lower prestige alliances are completely FTP and can’t/won’t clear a map. You do not find that with alliances 9500+ Prestige. Matches are always close, and every tries to win at all costs.

    You can not compare the two, and a 6000 prestige alliance with only 4*’s does deserve the same points. There are too many variables that you are overlooking out of convenience of your argument. Like I said before, going the Prestige matches will kill AW.

    It isn’t how well you use it if most alliances 6000-7000 can’t complete a map. Half can’t run Map 5 in AQ... do they deserve the same points for what they can fight in AQ to make it “more fair”. Harder matchups should have higher points awarded. PERIOD.
    In War, you have the same Multipliers based on Tier. Again, when you're increasing things on the same scale, even Matches are about the same level of difficulty for an Ally using 5*s vs. 5*s as they are for an Ally using 6*s vs. 6*s. There's a bit of grey area there in terms of how many of each Rarity, etc. However the Map increases the strength of the Champs used in the same scale. A lower Alliance in T1-5 is playing the same "Map 7" as a higher Alliance. I don't know why I have to continue making this point, but even Matches are to scale for both Allies with 6*s as the 5*s, etc. It's based on what's being brought.
    Did you know that when Tier 1 matches a Tier 3, they play on the harder map and the lower team doesn’t get more points. Try again.

    Your logic is off.

    You have to continue making this point? Maybe it is because you are wrong? If everyone is telling you different, at when do you start to self reflect that maybe the issue is with you? Just a hint.
    Isn't it randomly selected between the two and Allies get the Points for the Tier they're in? That's fair. The opposite would be a huge boost.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Member Posts: 36,726 ★★★★★
    Midknight007 said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    You can't say they're getting easier Matches because they're only easier to you based on what you're bringing. God I hope this is clicking. I'm getting dizzy. XD

    Wrong... I can run all 4* against their 4* and shred most defenses. How many of those 6000-7000 player completed LOL or Act 6? Oh wait, they can’t even run act 6 with their 4*s. SMH
    So that means it's not hard for them? See my points on looking through one's own glasses.
This discussion has been closed.