Whats going on with Green Goblin in the Abyss?

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  • CoatHang3rCoatHang3r Posts: 4,152 ★★★★★
    edited March 2020
    Ws rol.

    Reg. Crit

    Aarkus no AB
    2698 8011
    Aarkus 10 AB
    5575. 13471
    Aarkus +180% attack 10 AB
    11307. 27322


    Doom no AB
    3371. 10251
    Doom AB
    4054. 10823

    Aarkus’s ratio without AB is 2.969 and with AB 2.416

    Doom’s ratio without is 3.041 and with AB is 2.669

    What does this mean? Hell if i know, it’s confusing me.

    @StevieManWonder if you wanna see what he can do i’ve uploaded videos on YT.
  • OctoberstackOctoberstack Posts: 865 ★★★★

    Okay, this is somewhat speculative, since the numbers in this game can be really weird. I assume that this ability of abyss goblin is supposed to describe a 90% base attack reduction.

    We have a non-crit dealing 4115 damage.

    Now, let's try and work our way through to where the 3283 crit damage come from. For that I'll make the baseline assumption that what is happening is actually a 90% base attack reduction for critical hits.

    Let me just bullsh*t my way through this.

    First let's apply a 90% base attack reduction to the non-crit damage. This results in an unmodified crit (leaving out everything, even the crit damage multiplier) of 411,5.

    Now we add the 30% attack increase from the class advantage, which gives us a still mostly unmodified crit of ~535.

    Now let's add the crit-damage-multiplier of ~180% and let me also speculate that you have 5/5 in cruelty and 1/5 in lesser cruelty, which should get us up to about a 300% multiplier.
    (Vision aarkus has 738 crit damage which seems to equate to a ~180% multiplier. The assumed masteries apply an additional 505 crit damage to all champs, which should get aarkus' multiplier up to about 300%.)
    This would result in a crit damage of ~2140.

    Now thanks to your most recent addition we can factor in the damage increase through his armor breaks. His crit with 10 armor breaks in your test deals roughly 68% more damage than his crit without armor breaks.

    Applying that multiplier results in a total crit damage of ~3598, which is awfully close to the 3283 we can see in the screenshot.

    What could account for the difference?
    - The armor shatter in the screenshot could have been formed from less than 9 armor breaks
    - You could have lees than 5/5 in cruelty
    - My math is horrendously off

    I think it's most likely a typo and what is actually happening is a 90% decrease of base attack on critical hits.

    I hope this makes some sort of sense lmao.

    I'm dumb and essentially added the class advantage bonus twice in my calculation...

    Do you have points in glass canon? Then it might still.work out kinda sorta how I calculated it.

    But I'm lost now. Deepest apologies that thought process was mostly a wash lol.
    Lol ngl I enjoyed reading through your thought process. I think you're right, at the end of the day it's most likely just a simple typo
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 26,667 ★★★★★
    I'm interested to see if they could add some information.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 26,667 ★★★★★
    If the Crit is doing less than the Non-Crit, there's something I don't understand.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 26,667 ★★★★★
    I can see how I was a bit all over the place. Sorry if that was confusing.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 26,667 ★★★★★

    If the Crit is doing less than the Non-Crit, there's something I don't understand.

    Read the text of the first screenshot then. There's supposed to be a reduction of base attack on crit attacks, it's just the value that is unclear.
    I get that. What I don't understand is why the numbers don't add up. If a Non-Crit is 4115 and Crit is 3283, something definitely doesn't add up. I'm on board, I'm just needing clarification from them.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 26,667 ★★★★★
    edited March 2020

    If the Crit is doing less than the Non-Crit, there's something I don't understand.

    Read the text of the first screenshot then. There's supposed to be a reduction of base attack on crit attacks, it's just the value that is unclear.
    I get that. What I don't understand is why the numbers don't add up. If a Non-Crit is 4115 and Crit is 3283, something definitely doesn't add up. I'm on board, I'm just needing clarification from them.
    The crit deals less damage than the non-crit, because the base attack of your champ gets reduced by [X]% (X being a value somewhere between 70% and 90%).

    The description states 0,9% as a value which is obviously a typo.

    The only thing that's unclear is the exact value of X.
    Wouldn't it still be higher than a Non-Crit, only .9% less? For example, if Non-Crit is 1000, and Crit is 3000, then Node X would be 200 x (99.1% Base Attack)?
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 26,667 ★★★★★

    If the Crit is doing less than the Non-Crit, there's something I don't understand.

    Read the text of the first screenshot then. There's supposed to be a reduction of base attack on crit attacks, it's just the value that is unclear.
    I get that. What I don't understand is why the numbers don't add up. If a Non-Crit is 4115 and Crit is 3283, something definitely doesn't add up. I'm on board, I'm just needing clarification from them.
    The crit deals less damage than the non-crit, because the base attack of your champ gets reduced by [X]% (X being a value somewhere between 70% and 90%).

    The description states 0,9% as a value which is obviously a typo.

    The only thing that's unclear is the exact value of X.
    Wouldn't it still be higher than a Non-Crit, only .9% less? For example, if Non-Crit is 1000, and Crit is 3000, then Node X would be 200 x (99.1% Base Attack)?
    How much sense would a 0,9% attack reduction on critical hits make in a piece of content like abyss of legends? It wouldn't make any sense in any piece of content.

    Additionally that's not what we witness in the screenshots.

    Also additionally we have a precedent for a similar typo on the power shield node. Happened just recently.

    What we see is a 70%-90% reduction, which makes sense in the context of what in-game content we're looking at and the therefore apparent intent.
    I didn't dispute what you calculated. I said what we see isn't adding up to what it says. Which is why I said I'm waiting for clarification. There's really no need to be so combative.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 26,667 ★★★★★

    If the Crit is doing less than the Non-Crit, there's something I don't understand.

    Read the text of the first screenshot then. There's supposed to be a reduction of base attack on crit attacks, it's just the value that is unclear.
    I get that. What I don't understand is why the numbers don't add up. If a Non-Crit is 4115 and Crit is 3283, something definitely doesn't add up. I'm on board, I'm just needing clarification from them.
    The crit deals less damage than the non-crit, because the base attack of your champ gets reduced by [X]% (X being a value somewhere between 70% and 90%).

    The description states 0,9% as a value which is obviously a typo.

    The only thing that's unclear is the exact value of X.
    Wouldn't it still be higher than a Non-Crit, only .9% less? For example, if Non-Crit is 1000, and Crit is 3000, then Node X would be 200 x (99.1% Base Attack)?
    How much sense would a 0,9% attack reduction on critical hits make in a piece of content like abyss of legends? It wouldn't make any sense in any piece of content.

    Additionally that's not what we witness in the screenshots.

    Also additionally we have a precedent for a similar typo on the power shield node. Happened just recently.

    What we see is a 70%-90% reduction, which makes sense in the context of what in-game content we're looking at and the therefore apparent intent.
    I didn't dispute what you calculated. I said what we see isn't adding up to what it says. Which is why I said I'm waiting for clarification. There's really no need to be so combative.
    Because it's most likely a typo, again, precedent power shield node. The value was correct, the description stated 1% instead of 200%(iirc).

    That's explanatory, not combative by the way.

    Abyss of legends is an extremely hard piece of content. A 0,9% attack reduction would be redundant even in act 1.

    Hence, typo.
    Ok. Hopefully they'll get back to us. Thanks for breaking it down.
  • CoatHang3rCoatHang3r Posts: 4,152 ★★★★★
    After talking about it and taking a deeper look, it’s a 90% reduction to base attack and any confusion/discrepancies are due to how negative armor increases damage combined with how crits ignore a certain percentage of armor.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 26,667 ★★★★★

    After talking about it and taking a deeper look, it’s a 90% reduction to base attack and any confusion/discrepancies are due to how negative armor increases damage combined with how crits ignore a certain percentage of armor.

    That makes a lot more sense. Umberto was right, it's a typo.
  • Mirage_TurtleMirage_Turtle Posts: 1,865 ★★★★
    Can we get some clarification that this is a bug?

    I just finished running this path and found that my Critical Hits were reduced WAY more than the 0.9% written in the description:



    I realize that the Shield Charge grants a lot of armor, but Critical hits bypass a lot of armor.



    A medium crit against Green Goblin took 1447 damage while Fear of the Void was active, which increases attack rating.



    On the same path, Mr. Sinister took 4638 damage from a medium crit with Fear of the Void active.


    This fight appears to be bugged and Green Goblin's node is reducing damage far more than 0.9% as described.
  • Hey everyone, I checked with the team and you all are correct, the 0.9% is a typo; this Green Goblin reduces his opponent's attack by 65% when struck by a critical hit. We're workin on updating the text to reflect this.
  • qartweliqartweli Posts: 489 ★★★
    edited June 2020
    This makes any crit hit with crit damage 165%=equal to non crit
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