Does it sounds logical to you - AQ tickets refund

ShrimpRShrimpR Member Posts: 245 ★
in General Discussion
Because I haven't receive any tickets refund and some of my alliance members received more than hundreds tickets, so I send an Email to the support team. And here is their responds:
So basically if some members donate resources on Monday and the other members always donate same amount of resources on Saturday, everytime Monday resources get consumed first but those who donate on Saturday will still have some resources left. That's why those members who donate late every week got a lot of tickets refund but I got nothing.
This just doesn't make any sence to me. What do you guys think?

@RichTheMan

Comments

  • UnknownUnknown
    This content has been removed.
  • xNigxNig Member Posts: 7,330 ★★★★★
    It actually sounds very logical to follow a FIFO system.
  • UnknownUnknown
    This content has been removed.
  • xNigxNig Member Posts: 7,330 ★★★★★
    Just a little. No big deal. Don’t have to be so calculating tbh.

    My alliance lost 40+m gold, 6m BCs and 2.5m Loyalty but whatever. It doesn’t matter. Donations are now overall cheaper and we will eventually save up whatever we spent. Also, it’s a small price to pay to clean up an aspect of the game, ie resource loading from mercs.
  • UnknownUnknown
    This content has been removed.
  • ItsDamienItsDamien Member Posts: 5,626 ★★★★★
    edited June 2020
    I've read this multiple times and I fail to see the issue in their logic.

    Player 1 donates 1 million
    Player 2 donates 2 million

    That's 3 million gold.

    Alliance pays 2 million for entry.

    Player 1 receives no tickets for gold.
    Player 2 receives 1 million golds worth of tickets.

    How is that unfair? The guy put in 1 million extra and gets that back. It'd be unfair if both players got 500k worth back since 1 million was used from both players and player 2 got a million that wasn't used refunded.
  • KnightZeroKnightZero Member Posts: 1,450 ★★★★★
    ItsDamien said:

    I've read this multiple times and I fail to see the issue in their logic.

    Player 1 donates 1 million
    Player 2 donates 2 million

    That's 3 million gold.

    Alliance pays 2 million for entry.

    Player 1 receives no tickets for gold.
    Player 2 receives 1 million golds worth of tickets.

    How is that unfair? The guy put in 1 million extra and gets that back. It'd be unfair if both players got 500k worth back since 1 million was used from both players and player 2 got a million that wasn't used refunded.

    The way you stated makes it fair. But it can also be mistaken as the way OP has stated. If they're considering each person donating the minimum requirement and then cutting it from the treasury then what you said works. But the way they phrased is could also mean First in First out, which is stupid. Better way to clarify from their side would be giving an example with more than two people.
  • ItsDamienItsDamien Member Posts: 5,626 ★★★★★
    KnightZero said:

    ItsDamien said:

    I've read this multiple times and I fail to see the issue in their logic.

    Player 1 donates 1 million
    Player 2 donates 2 million

    That's 3 million gold.

    Alliance pays 2 million for entry.

    Player 1 receives no tickets for gold.
    Player 2 receives 1 million golds worth of tickets.

    How is that unfair? The guy put in 1 million extra and gets that back. It'd be unfair if both players got 500k worth back since 1 million was used from both players and player 2 got a million that wasn't used refunded.

    The way you stated makes it fair. But it can also be mistaken as the way OP has stated. If they're considering each person donating the minimum requirement and then cutting it from the treasury then what you said works. But the way they phrased is could also mean First in First out, which is stupid. Better way to clarify from their side would be giving an example with more than two people.
    Even then the FIFO doesn't make it unfair. Let's assume from the date if the treasury being closed (May 22nd) we go back 5 months to December 22nd 2019 (The length of time the refunds go back). During that time 152 days happen cycle is every 8 days. That's 19 cycles over about 21 weeks. During that time even if people donated later or earlier in the week, their donations would all eventually rotate as being closer to First In. Literally, the refunding of tickets only applies to the excess that each person individually over donated before. That means the people who didn't receive tickets, or very few, would have had their funds used precisely right. Those who received many tickets, are those who over donated during that time. Bare in mind that the tickets refunded would also be applied to WHAT resources were donated and how much. As donating more of one resource only grants less tickets than donating several types, so I imagine that refunding also works in the same manner, if you only donated gold you might end up with less than someone who donated all three resources.
  • KnightZeroKnightZero Member Posts: 1,450 ★★★★★
    ItsDamien said:

    KnightZero said:

    ItsDamien said:

    I've read this multiple times and I fail to see the issue in their logic.

    Player 1 donates 1 million
    Player 2 donates 2 million

    That's 3 million gold.

    Alliance pays 2 million for entry.

    Player 1 receives no tickets for gold.
    Player 2 receives 1 million golds worth of tickets.

    How is that unfair? The guy put in 1 million extra and gets that back. It'd be unfair if both players got 500k worth back since 1 million was used from both players and player 2 got a million that wasn't used refunded.

    The way you stated makes it fair. But it can also be mistaken as the way OP has stated. If they're considering each person donating the minimum requirement and then cutting it from the treasury then what you said works. But the way they phrased is could also mean First in First out, which is stupid. Better way to clarify from their side would be giving an example with more than two people.
    Even then the FIFO doesn't make it unfair. Let's assume from the date if the treasury being closed (May 22nd) we go back 5 months to December 22nd 2019 (The length of time the refunds go back). During that time 152 days happen cycle is every 8 days. That's 19 cycles over about 21 weeks. During that time even if people donated later or earlier in the week, their donations would all eventually rotate as being closer to First In. Literally, the refunding of tickets only applies to the excess that each person individually over donated before. That means the people who didn't receive tickets, or very few, would have had their funds used precisely right. Those who received many tickets, are those who over donated during that time. Bare in mind that the tickets refunded would also be applied to WHAT resources were donated and how much. As donating more of one resource only grants less tickets than donating several types, so I imagine that refunding also works in the same manner, if you only donated gold you might end up with less than someone who donated all three resources.
    Unfortunately it hasn't been taken that way. People in many alliances who have donated the same amounts have been refunded different tickets. Those who have donated more of a specific resource by trading have also been refunded while some who have donated all 3 haven't been given anything back even though overall donation stays the same.
    And you also have to consider donation reset for FIFO. If the donations were reset, the system might also reset the order for FIFO. Can't assume it wouldn't since we don't know how it's taken.
  • ItsDamienItsDamien Member Posts: 5,626 ★★★★★
    KnightZero said:

    ItsDamien said:

    KnightZero said:

    ItsDamien said:

    I've read this multiple times and I fail to see the issue in their logic.

    Player 1 donates 1 million
    Player 2 donates 2 million

    That's 3 million gold.

    Alliance pays 2 million for entry.

    Player 1 receives no tickets for gold.
    Player 2 receives 1 million golds worth of tickets.

    How is that unfair? The guy put in 1 million extra and gets that back. It'd be unfair if both players got 500k worth back since 1 million was used from both players and player 2 got a million that wasn't used refunded.

    The way you stated makes it fair. But it can also be mistaken as the way OP has stated. If they're considering each person donating the minimum requirement and then cutting it from the treasury then what you said works. But the way they phrased is could also mean First in First out, which is stupid. Better way to clarify from their side would be giving an example with more than two people.
    Even then the FIFO doesn't make it unfair. Let's assume from the date if the treasury being closed (May 22nd) we go back 5 months to December 22nd 2019 (The length of time the refunds go back). During that time 152 days happen cycle is every 8 days. That's 19 cycles over about 21 weeks. During that time even if people donated later or earlier in the week, their donations would all eventually rotate as being closer to First In. Literally, the refunding of tickets only applies to the excess that each person individually over donated before. That means the people who didn't receive tickets, or very few, would have had their funds used precisely right. Those who received many tickets, are those who over donated during that time. Bare in mind that the tickets refunded would also be applied to WHAT resources were donated and how much. As donating more of one resource only grants less tickets than donating several types, so I imagine that refunding also works in the same manner, if you only donated gold you might end up with less than someone who donated all three resources.
    Unfortunately it hasn't been taken that way. People in many alliances who have donated the same amounts have been refunded different tickets. Those who have donated more of a specific resource by trading have also been refunded while some who have donated all 3 haven't been given anything back even though overall donation stays the same.
    And you also have to consider donation reset for FIFO. If the donations were reset, the system might also reset the order for FIFO. Can't assume it wouldn't since we don't know how it's taken.
    There's a multitude of different factors. The other one also being the fact that it's counted across ALL the donations the player personally made. It didn't even have to be in the alliance the player was in before the refund. If the player donated to any alliance during that 5 months, those unused resources would be refunded also.
  • GinjabredMonstaGinjabredMonsta Member, Guardian Posts: 6,482 Guardian
    Ah so they went the first one in first one out method
  • TrubluMateTrubluMate Member Posts: 379 ★★★
    xNig said:

    It actually sounds very logical to follow a FIFO system.

    Not everyone understands accounting terms! But it does make sense they run the AQ ticketing just like an account. First In First Out.
  • ezgoingezgoing Member Posts: 284 ★★
    I agree there’s something wrong with the refund logic, and Kabam is not being very transparent about it. There’s another thread about this which I also commented.

    I suspect those who commented here “nothing wrong, move on”, didn’t get shortchanged themselves. But if you are in an ally where you got zero tickets and others in your ally got tickets, I am sure you will want to right this unfairness or at least understand why.

    After thinking about this a bit more, I gather this is the kabam refund logic which I will illustrate using a 3-person ally, and a 3 week donation window instead of 5 months, and hypothetical map costs.

    Person A every week: 5000 loyalty 0 gold

    Person B every week: 2500 loyalty 10k gold (typical ally member donation)

    Person C every week: 0 loyalty 30k gold

    If the total map costs the ally ran over the 3 weeks were 22.5k loyalty (exactly what was donated) and 100k gold. Person A will get back 0 tickets since every loyalty was used up. He will feel aggrieved if loyalty was the more scarce resource in the ally that he tried to make up for. He could have plenty of gold, but no point donating it if it will only sit in the treasury.

    Person C is so bad with donating loyalty, so an ally gets him to top up more gold instead. But he’s the one who will definitely get back tickets worth of the excess 20k gold that wasn’t spent.

    Looking at this FIFO example by OP, whether Person B gets back some tickets depends on whether he made his last 10k gold donation before or after Person C.

    Fair or not, you judge.



  • LeNoirFaineantLeNoirFaineant Member Posts: 8,672 ★★★★★
    edited June 2020
    ShrimpR said:

    Because I haven't receive any tickets refund and some of my alliance members received more than hundreds tickets, so I send an Email to the support team. And here is their responds:
    So basically if some members donate resources on Monday and the other members always donate same amount of resources on Saturday, everytime Monday resources get consumed first but those who donate on Saturday will still have some resources left. That's why those members who donate late every week got a lot of tickets refund but I got nothing.
    This just doesn't make any sence to me. What do you guys think?

    @RichTheMan

    I think they explained it badly. Tickets are for donations in excess of the cost of the maps you ran. It doesn't matter who donated first but it also shouldn't matter what the alliance cost was. The only thing that should matter was what the individual cost of running the map was, and how much you donated with regard to that.
  • UnknownUnknown
    edited June 2020
    This content has been removed.
  • Lvernon15Lvernon15 Member Posts: 11,598 ★★★★★
    So people are getting rewarded only if they donated late basically, that’s just bs
  • UnknownUnknown
    This content has been removed.
  • KnightZeroKnightZero Member Posts: 1,450 ★★★★★
    ItsDamien said:

    KnightZero said:

    ItsDamien said:

    KnightZero said:

    ItsDamien said:

    I've read this multiple times and I fail to see the issue in their logic.

    Player 1 donates 1 million
    Player 2 donates 2 million

    That's 3 million gold.

    Alliance pays 2 million for entry.

    Player 1 receives no tickets for gold.
    Player 2 receives 1 million golds worth of tickets.

    How is that unfair? The guy put in 1 million extra and gets that back. It'd be unfair if both players got 500k worth back since 1 million was used from both players and player 2 got a million that wasn't used refunded.

    The way you stated makes it fair. But it can also be mistaken as the way OP has stated. If they're considering each person donating the minimum requirement and then cutting it from the treasury then what you said works. But the way they phrased is could also mean First in First out, which is stupid. Better way to clarify from their side would be giving an example with more than two people.
    Even then the FIFO doesn't make it unfair. Let's assume from the date if the treasury being closed (May 22nd) we go back 5 months to December 22nd 2019 (The length of time the refunds go back). During that time 152 days happen cycle is every 8 days. That's 19 cycles over about 21 weeks. During that time even if people donated later or earlier in the week, their donations would all eventually rotate as being closer to First In. Literally, the refunding of tickets only applies to the excess that each person individually over donated before. That means the people who didn't receive tickets, or very few, would have had their funds used precisely right. Those who received many tickets, are those who over donated during that time. Bare in mind that the tickets refunded would also be applied to WHAT resources were donated and how much. As donating more of one resource only grants less tickets than donating several types, so I imagine that refunding also works in the same manner, if you only donated gold you might end up with less than someone who donated all three resources.
    Unfortunately it hasn't been taken that way. People in many alliances who have donated the same amounts have been refunded different tickets. Those who have donated more of a specific resource by trading have also been refunded while some who have donated all 3 haven't been given anything back even though overall donation stays the same.
    And you also have to consider donation reset for FIFO. If the donations were reset, the system might also reset the order for FIFO. Can't assume it wouldn't since we don't know how it's taken.
    There's a multitude of different factors. The other one also being the fact that it's counted across ALL the donations the player personally made. It didn't even have to be in the alliance the player was in before the refund. If the player donated to any alliance during that 5 months, those unused resources would be refunded also.
    I've been in the same alliance for the last 4 and 90% of the alliance is the same in the last 5 months. There have been a few people who have donated extra at times, but the rest have swapped a lot. Yet everyone has received different tickets back. Their system is flawed. How? Not sure. But definitely everyone hasn't gotten the tickets back properly.
  • shadow_lurker22shadow_lurker22 Member Posts: 3,245 ★★★★★
    xNig said:

    It actually sounds very logical to follow a FIFO system.

    Oh yeah completely forgot about GW 2.0
  • Mcord11758Mcord11758 Member Posts: 1,249 ★★★★
    they stole every alliances treasuries and in some cases are giving back pennies on the dollar
  • Mcord11758Mcord11758 Member Posts: 1,249 ★★★★
    ultimately there is zero way to validate their calculations. I for one know that when I left an alliance within the last couple of months I donated like 10 times the weekly donation amount as a ty. I am fine in the end losing the resources or I wouldn't have donated them, but how can I validate that in the line chat after my donation the alliance said everyone can donate x amount less because of the new excess? its all meaningless to me but this entire process was handled poorly, as has been the norm.
  • ch4rnch4rn Member Posts: 275 ★★
    This entire tickets decision is a load of rubbish! How the hell do you roll out a process without even thinking of the fact that alli's do mixed maps? Even worse to come out with trash like "a fix wont arrive until August".

    Damn well make all the maps free until YOU KABAM fix YOUR mess!
    Then they have the cheek to remove posts from annoyed players.

    ABSOLUTELY PATHETIC!
  • UnknownUnknown
    This content has been removed.
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