War tier 1 bracket size changed drastically today.

battleonebattleone Member Posts: 286 ★★
in Bugs and Known Issues
Up until a yesterday tier 1 war rating was somewhere between 45 and 48th rated alliance in global war rating. We are low 30 ranked and now tier 2. Please look into this as it has a major impact on season rankings.
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Comments

  • Patchie93Patchie93 Member Posts: 1,898 ★★★★
    I mean could be another issue of them removing dead alliances mid season again
  • battleonebattleone Member Posts: 286 ★★
    Patchie93 said:

    I mean could be another issue of them removing dead alliances mid season again

    Possibly, but tier 1 is the top .1% Going from top 45-48, to somewhere under 33 is saying a third of alliances got removed. I’m just asking for it to be looked into... an alliance that was in tier 1.... that won its war jumped spots, should not now be in tier 2 unless something pretty drastic was done.
  • LormifLormif Member Posts: 7,369 ★★★★★
    While it could be the size, it could also just be the way points are done. If I am not mistaken the tier is not based on your overall ranking in war (which is based on total war points), but based on your war rating score. This means that if someone else with a higher rating won, but gained less points they could have dropped below you in overall war points, but stayed above you in war rating, likewise someone could have gained war points on you without overtaking your place in the overall rankings.
  • RapRap Member Posts: 3,233 ★★★★
    edited September 2020
    The bottom is gone...top alliances are gonna slide downward. I posted that a couple of weeks ago and got laughed at...the proof is in the pudding! This is more of the effects of our new war matchmaking.
    Somebody has to fill all the empty slots at the bottom...
  • LormifLormif Member Posts: 7,369 ★★★★★
    Rap said:

    The bottom is gone...top alliances are gonna slide downward. I posted that a couple of weeks ago and got laughed at...the proof is in the pudding! This is more of the effects of our new war matchmaking.
    Somebody has to fill all the empty slots at the bottom...

    You are still going to get laughed at because everytime you state that nonsense you show you still dont know how the system works.
  • MauledMauled Member, Guardian Posts: 3,957 Guardian
    The brackets are a little bit smaller than they were. A couple of seasons ago P2 was entirely T2, but now from about ~45 and lower its T3. Being right on the border of T2/3 is a nightmare for us. One loss at T2 drops is to T3 and it takes 2 wins to get back up to T2 again. We’re very much a yo-yo alliance at the moment. Definitely feels like we’re getting picked on 😂😂
  • UnknownUnknown
    This content has been removed.
  • GreywardenGreywarden Member Posts: 843 ★★★★
    Par for the course with kabam. Wouldn’t be a war season without some hiccup.

    How is being a top 30 alliance right now not Tier 1....
  • LormifLormif Member Posts: 7,369 ★★★★★
    qartweli said:

    Every alliance below 2060 is T2 now and there are only 25 alliances in T1
    That was not the case two wars ago

    T1 says 0.1% but cant be changed in two wars in my opinion
    Seems to be a bug

    I mean 25 is 0.1% out of 2500
    There are far more alliances then 2500

    .1% of 2500 is 2.5 (2500x.001). 25 is .1%$ of 25000
  • GreywardenGreywarden Member Posts: 843 ★★★★
    Before this war that just ended being in the 46-48 range was tier 1. During the war that just ended being 33 wasn’t high enough.


    Did 15,000 alliances get deleted.....because the otherwise that makes no sense.
  • genibus81genibus81 Member Posts: 16 ★
    We lost tier1 war today and dropped 92 rating pts, the whole time it was like -70 for a loss. Somethings jacked
  • GreywardenGreywarden Member Posts: 843 ★★★★
    How does this make any sense. Would love a mod to weigh in.

    War 11 we were ranked 33 and tier 2.

    We won and are now tier 1 again but.....

    We happen to know some people in alliances that are currently ranked 34-37 that are tier 1.

    So my question, how is rank 33 tier 2 in war 11 but is now tier 1 in war 12?

    @Kabam Zibiit @Kabam Miike @Kabam Lyra
  • LormifLormif Member Posts: 7,369 ★★★★★
    Greywarden said:

    How does this make any sense. Would love a mod to weigh in.

    War 11 we were ranked 33 and tier 2.

    We won and are now tier 1 again but.....

    We happen to know some people in alliances that are currently ranked 34-37 that are tier 1.

    So my question, how is rank 33 tier 2 in war 11 but is now tier 1 in war 12?

    @Kabam Zibiit @Kabam Miike @Kabam Lyra

    because the 2 are not linked. you can win with max points or not max points, others can as well, and points for tiers have some fluctuation too.
  • GreywardenGreywarden Member Posts: 843 ★★★★
    Maybe I'm just ignorant to this but are you saying that war rating doesn't affect your tier but points scored in a season does?
  • LormifLormif Member Posts: 7,369 ★★★★★
    Greywarden said:

    Maybe I'm just ignorant to this but are you saying that war rating doesn't affect your tier but points scored in a season does?

    The total number of points you gained = the scores of all battles (win or loss) times your tier multiplier
    this comes out to the ranking you are talking about when you say you are ranked 33. But just because you are rank 33 in overall points for war does not mean you are rank 33 for your tier, because your ranking in your tier goes off the tier points.

    Lets do an experiment, lets take 2 alliances, both in tier 3, a 6x multiplier. Lets say one alliance wins every war with no bg clears, and the other loses every war with 100% exploration. I know this is unlikely to happen, but it illustrates the issue.
    Alliance A
    At no BG clears the winner will get ~130k points per war (including the 50k for winning) so after 12 wars they will have 9,360,000
    Alliance B
    The team that loses but with full clears will get ~140k points per war so they will end up with 10,080,000 points

    So even though alliance A won all their wars they lost to Alliance B in the points, however alliance A will have a higher war rating than Alliance B because of the wins.
  • GreywardenGreywarden Member Posts: 843 ★★★★
    @Lormif that's a highly improbable example though and doesn't make sense if you think about the beginning of each season where everyone starts at zero points. If Tier was all about points then how does any season start? Obviously war rating is what needs to be determining tier.

    War 11 our war rating had us at 33, i.e. only 32 alliances with a higher rating. Fast forward to war 12 where much lower ranks are Tier 1. Doesn't seem like a big deal but that's about 200k points we just lost and is the determining factor between p1 and masters.
  • LormifLormif Member Posts: 7,369 ★★★★★
    Greywarden said:

    @Lormif that's a highly improbable example though and doesn't make sense if you think about the beginning of each season where everyone starts at zero points. If Tier was all about points then how does any season start? Obviously war rating is what needs to be determining tier.

    War 11 our war rating had us at 33, i.e. only 32 alliances with a higher rating. Fast forward to war 12 where much lower ranks are Tier 1. Doesn't seem like a big deal but that's about 200k points we just lost and is the determining factor between p1 and masters.

    the season starts with you at 0 points, and your first 3 wars * your multiplier determines your starting position. Your position in the current season does not equate to your position in the war rating tier, your rating points do. There is also variations in the points gained determined by the differnce in your oppeonets rating to your own that goes into your war rating.

    There are also other problems that go into trying to compare your season rank to your war rating rank. Take my plat alliance, our leaders forgot to enlist us one time, so we lost rank down to gold, but because we did not fight a war our war rating stayed the same.
  • GreywardenGreywarden Member Posts: 843 ★★★★
    right but in that scenario did your tier remain the same or did it drop as well.
  • LormifLormif Member Posts: 7,369 ★★★★★
    Greywarden said:

    right but in that scenario did your tier remain the same or did it drop as well.

    out tier remained the same, because there was no fights to change it. It is possible to drop from not fighting in a war during season, but unlikely because half those around you should win and half should lose, so you should stay roughly in the same place in the tier.
  • GreywardenGreywarden Member Posts: 843 ★★★★
    Lol I feel like we're talking in circles then. You're saying it's unlikely to drop from gaining no points but it is if you do gain points? Please take this the right way but I would like a mod to weigh in.

  • LormifLormif Member Posts: 7,369 ★★★★★
    Greywarden said:

    Lol I feel like we're talking in circles then. You're saying it's unlikely to drop from gaining no points but it is if you do gain points? Please take this the right way but I would like a mod to weigh in.

    A mod can always weigh in, but this is a discussion forms. Your tier rating affects your war ranking because it affects how many points you have, but your war ranking has no impact on your war rating.

    If you skip a war you will drop war rankings because you will lose hundreds of thousands of possible points, but your war rating will not change because no war was ever fought.
  • GreywardenGreywarden Member Posts: 843 ★★★★
    Ok but if you participate in all of your wars, 100% all of them, win most of them and after 10-11 wars that war rating is ranked 33rd that should be tier 1.
  • LormifLormif Member Posts: 7,369 ★★★★★
    Greywarden said:

    Ok but if you participate in all of your wars, 100% all of them, win most of them and after 10-11 wars that war rating is ranked 33rd that should be tier 1.

    should be close to it, but may not, because again war rating point gains can fluctuate based on your opponent. If you are only fighting opponents with a lower war rating your point gain will be lower than someone in the same rating but who beats everyone with a higher rating
  • GreywardenGreywarden Member Posts: 843 ★★★★
    Anything? @Kabam Miike @Kabam Zibiit

    I'd love to hear the reasoning behind being ranked 33 in war 11 and getting tier 2 points and the very next war having that same ranking be Tier 1.
  • battleonebattleone Member Posts: 286 ★★
    So I would like to follow up my initial post to say that war 12 tier 1 went back to "normal" 45-48 was tier 1. So the war we were 33rd and inexplicably became tier 2 and got tier 2 points cost us masters rewards. We landed as 1st in p1. All competitors around our ranking were not impacted by this bug that happened in war 11. They were all in tier 1. This decided the result of our season. Could we please get a look at the specifics of this situation. Customer service is trained to say a very generic answer on this topic, but as an alliance that is regularly in tier 1, we understand the boundaries of tier 1 and how it works. Could we please be given the benefit of the doubt that we know what we are talking about and at least have the tiering in war 11 and points awarded reviewed?
  • LormifLormif Member Posts: 7,369 ★★★★★
    battleone said:

    So I would like to follow up my initial post to say that war 12 tier 1 went back to "normal" 45-48 was tier 1. So the war we were 33rd and inexplicably became tier 2 and got tier 2 points cost us masters rewards. We landed as 1st in p1. All competitors around our ranking were not impacted by this bug that happened in war 11. They were all in tier 1. This decided the result of our season. Could we please get a look at the specifics of this situation. Customer service is trained to say a very generic answer on this topic, but as an alliance that is regularly in tier 1, we understand the boundaries of tier 1 and how it works. Could we please be given the benefit of the doubt that we know what we are talking about and at least have the tiering in war 11 and points awarded reviewed?

    again, not how it works, you season rank has nothing to do with your war rating rank, other than the latter determines your multiplier for the first.
  • battleonebattleone Member Posts: 286 ★★
    edited September 2020
    Lormif said:

    battleone said:

    So I would like to follow up my initial post to say that war 12 tier 1 went back to "normal" 45-48 was tier 1. So the war we were 33rd and inexplicably became tier 2 and got tier 2 points cost us masters rewards. We landed as 1st in p1. All competitors around our ranking were not impacted by this bug that happened in war 11. They were all in tier 1. This decided the result of our season. Could we please get a look at the specifics of this situation. Customer service is trained to say a very generic answer on this topic, but as an alliance that is regularly in tier 1, we understand the boundaries of tier 1 and how it works. Could we please be given the benefit of the doubt that we know what we are talking about and at least have the tiering in war 11 and points awarded reviewed?

    again, not how it works, you season rank has nothing to do with your war rating rank, other than the latter determines your multiplier for the first.
    tier is defined as the top .1 % of war rating (all alliances). tier 1 gets a x8 multiplier. historically (over the past 2 years that I have straddled that rank), that line to tier 2 has fallen between 45th and 48th in war rating rank. war 11 we were 33rd in war rating. this should have been a tier 1 (x8 multiplier) but it wasnt. it was x7. Then magically, war 12 x8 multiplier went back to 45-48th. As a result we feel we are missing 200k points (as are the 12 or so teams under us in war rating). in our posts (tier and multiplier are interchangeable words for what we are trying to communicate)
  • LormifLormif Member Posts: 7,369 ★★★★★
    battleone said:

    Lormif said:

    battleone said:

    So I would like to follow up my initial post to say that war 12 tier 1 went back to "normal" 45-48 was tier 1. So the war we were 33rd and inexplicably became tier 2 and got tier 2 points cost us masters rewards. We landed as 1st in p1. All competitors around our ranking were not impacted by this bug that happened in war 11. They were all in tier 1. This decided the result of our season. Could we please get a look at the specifics of this situation. Customer service is trained to say a very generic answer on this topic, but as an alliance that is regularly in tier 1, we understand the boundaries of tier 1 and how it works. Could we please be given the benefit of the doubt that we know what we are talking about and at least have the tiering in war 11 and points awarded reviewed?

    again, not how it works, you season rank has nothing to do with your war rating rank, other than the latter determines your multiplier for the first.
    tier is defined as the top .1 % of war rating (all alliances). tier 1 gets a x8 multiplier. historically (over the past 2 years that I have straddled that rank), that line to tier 2 has fallen between 45th and 48th in war rating rank. war 11 we were 33rd in war rating. this should have been a tier 1 (x8 multiplier) but it wasnt. it was x7. Then magically, war 12 x8 multiplier went back to 45-48th. As a result we feel we are missing 200k points (as are the 12 or so teams under us in war rating). in our posts (tier and multiplier are interchangeable words for what we are trying to communicate)
    It can fluctuate, and it can be that someone in the 50s or 60s are in the top rating and people below them are not in the top war rating, because the war ratings go up is not paired with the season points. 2 people who win can have different could gain the same modifier from the tier, but gain different points in the war rating based on their opponents war rating.
  • battleonebattleone Member Posts: 286 ★★
    Lormif said:

    battleone said:

    Lormif said:

    battleone said:

    So I would like to follow up my initial post to say that war 12 tier 1 went back to "normal" 45-48 was tier 1. So the war we were 33rd and inexplicably became tier 2 and got tier 2 points cost us masters rewards. We landed as 1st in p1. All competitors around our ranking were not impacted by this bug that happened in war 11. They were all in tier 1. This decided the result of our season. Could we please get a look at the specifics of this situation. Customer service is trained to say a very generic answer on this topic, but as an alliance that is regularly in tier 1, we understand the boundaries of tier 1 and how it works. Could we please be given the benefit of the doubt that we know what we are talking about and at least have the tiering in war 11 and points awarded reviewed?

    again, not how it works, you season rank has nothing to do with your war rating rank, other than the latter determines your multiplier for the first.
    tier is defined as the top .1 % of war rating (all alliances). tier 1 gets a x8 multiplier. historically (over the past 2 years that I have straddled that rank), that line to tier 2 has fallen between 45th and 48th in war rating rank. war 11 we were 33rd in war rating. this should have been a tier 1 (x8 multiplier) but it wasnt. it was x7. Then magically, war 12 x8 multiplier went back to 45-48th. As a result we feel we are missing 200k points (as are the 12 or so teams under us in war rating). in our posts (tier and multiplier are interchangeable words for what we are trying to communicate)
    It can fluctuate, and it can be that someone in the 50s or 60s are in the top rating and people below them are not in the top war rating, because the war ratings go up is not paired with the season points. 2 people who win can have different could gain the same modifier from the tier, but gain different points in the war rating based on their opponents war rating.
    I really dont understand what I am saying that is being interpreted as a correlation between war rating and season points. Could you explain where I am correlating the 2?
  • LormifLormif Member Posts: 7,369 ★★★★★
    you are stating that the tier rating, which is based only off the war rating, had a limit of place X in season point totals.
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