War deaths

Goken2345Goken2345 Member Posts: 621 ★★
edited October 2020 in General Discussion

I find it a little ridiculous that a BG could rack up 22 deaths on a boss node with no negative consequences in war.
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Comments

  • Goken2345Goken2345 Member Posts: 621 ★★
    Ebony_Naw said:

    I can agree that I wish there would be greater consequences than 3 attack bonus, but I understand why they limit the repercussions. If they did not, then placing no defender could become more ideal than placing a bad defender.

    There’s gotta be something better than this though
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Member Posts: 36,576 ★★★★★
    Ebony_Naw said:

    I can agree that I wish there would be greater consequences than 3 attack bonus, but I understand why they limit the repercussions. If they did not, then placing no defender could become more ideal than placing a bad defender.

    It's also about not penalizing people from using Items and discouraging them from trying, which were reasons the Kills metrics were removed. The current setup rewards skill. You take the Boss down with Attack Bonuses in tact, you get Points. Unless an Alliance is not willing to take the Boss down because they'll get Kills. In which case that's unwise. 20k a Boss.
    Outside of Attack Bonus, Defender Kills mean nothing, really. Aside from how well a Defender works. Not sure why years later, people still focus on them.
  • Lvernon15Lvernon15 Member Posts: 11,598 ★★★★★
    Yeah, I find it really frustrating when you lose but had more kills overall (not factoring in diversity)
  • Goken2345Goken2345 Member Posts: 621 ★★
    GroundedWisdom said:

    Ebony_Naw said:

    I can agree that I wish there would be greater consequences than 3 attack bonus, but I understand why they limit the repercussions. If they did not, then placing no defender could become more ideal than placing a bad defender.

    It's also about not penalizing people from using Items and discouraging them from trying, which were reasons the Kills metrics were removed. The current setup rewards skill. You take the Boss down with Attack Bonuses in tact, you get Points. Unless an Alliance is not willing to take the Boss down because they'll get Kills. In which case that's unwise. 20k a Boss.
    Outside of Attack Bonus, Defender Kills mean nothing, really. Aside from how well a Defender works. Not sure why years later, people still focus on them.
    To me that’s fine under 10 kills. But when you get over 10, let alone over 20, that’s not about skill. That’s about spending
  • UnknownUnknown
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  • Goken2345Goken2345 Member Posts: 621 ★★
    Seraphion said:

    You get that wrong. They die 22 times BECAUSE there are no consequences after the 3rd death. So everyone safes items and throws everyone still alive at him. That just playing with brain

    You’re right

  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Member Posts: 36,576 ★★★★★
    Goken2345 said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    Ebony_Naw said:

    I can agree that I wish there would be greater consequences than 3 attack bonus, but I understand why they limit the repercussions. If they did not, then placing no defender could become more ideal than placing a bad defender.

    It's also about not penalizing people from using Items and discouraging them from trying, which were reasons the Kills metrics were removed. The current setup rewards skill. You take the Boss down with Attack Bonuses in tact, you get Points. Unless an Alliance is not willing to take the Boss down because they'll get Kills. In which case that's unwise. 20k a Boss.
    Outside of Attack Bonus, Defender Kills mean nothing, really. Aside from how well a Defender works. Not sure why years later, people still focus on them.
    To me that’s fine under 10 kills. But when you get over 10, let alone over 20, that’s not about skill. That’s about spending
    That's about using whatever is available to take the Boss down, which gives a healthy chunk of Points. Which a lot of the time will take more tries. Not every Alliance has a Boss Killer. Defender Kills give no points for a reason.
    Ebony_Naw said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    Ebony_Naw said:

    I can agree that I wish there would be greater consequences than 3 attack bonus, but I understand why they limit the repercussions. If they did not, then placing no defender could become more ideal than placing a bad defender.

    It's also about not penalizing people from using Items and discouraging them from trying, which were reasons the Kills metrics were removed. The current setup rewards skill. You take the Boss down with Attack Bonuses in tact, you get Points. Unless an Alliance is not willing to take the Boss down because they'll get Kills. In which case that's unwise. 20k a Boss.
    Outside of Attack Bonus, Defender Kills mean nothing, really. Aside from how well a Defender works. Not sure why years later, people still focus on them.
    You can still set a higher threshold and I think keep your argument in tact. 3 is a fairly small number. I think adding a few more attack bonus would give players with medium skill levels a chance to be rewarded as well.

    It's not so much that people focus on them. People are asking why they are not focused on enough. It's hard to rationalize why 4 deaths and 20 deaths count the same (zero).
    They're not focused on at all, and the current system took a great deal of time and debate to come to. Adding them again would ruin Wars beyond what they were before. It's very simple. Skill is rewarded by not dying at all. Not by how many times they die. Not outside of 3 per Node. 4 deaths and 20 deaths count the same because the metric is Attack Bonus, not Defender Kills.
  • danielmathdanielmath Member Posts: 4,103 ★★★★★
    It’s actually the opposite of spending because players aren’t spending a ton of resources after the 3rd bonus is lost, just use a small team revive and go in
  • Lvernon15Lvernon15 Member Posts: 11,598 ★★★★★
    danielmath said:

    It’s actually the opposite of spending because players aren’t spending a ton of resources after the 3rd bonus is lost, just use a small team revive and go in

    Yeah, it prevents spending, just frustrating when you lose with more defender kills, though that hasn’t happened to us in a while, p1/masters alliances dont die 20 times on bosses generally
  • UnknownUnknown
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  • UnknownUnknown
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  • Goken2345Goken2345 Member Posts: 621 ★★
    Ebony_Naw said:

    danielmath said:

    It’s actually the opposite of spending because players aren’t spending a ton of resources after the 3rd bonus is lost, just use a small team revive and go in

    Yeah, more deaths usually means everyone is spending the free revives they get and nothing more.
    Since it was my apocalypse, I was watching them. They were spending more than just the free revives
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Member Posts: 36,576 ★★★★★
    What? Behind-the-scenes? No. They took place here, for anyone to participate in. The old system wasn't even about skill. Lay a Defense that makes the opposing side try themselves into the ground, and laugh as they kill their own efforts.
  • UnknownUnknown
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  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Member Posts: 36,576 ★★★★★
    Ebony_Naw said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    What? Behind-the-scenes? No. They took place here, for anyone to participate in. The old system wasn't even about skill. Lay a Defense that makes the opposing side try themselves into the ground, and laugh as they kill their own efforts.

    I wasn't around for that system, but I remember reading about it. I'm not advocating for a return to that system. I'm simply contemplating if 3 attack bonus is enough.
    When you consider anything after 3 is penalizing people for using Revs, yes.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Member Posts: 36,576 ★★★★★
    It's also the number of Attackers one person can hold so then you end up penalizing teamwork beyond that.
  • Goken2345Goken2345 Member Posts: 621 ★★
    GroundedWisdom said:

    It's also the number of Attackers one person can hold so then you end up penalizing teamwork beyond that.

    Wouldn’t team work also be prioritizing who takes the boss down?
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Member Posts: 36,576 ★★★★★
    Goken2345 said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    It's also the number of Attackers one person can hold so then you end up penalizing teamwork beyond that.

    Wouldn’t team work also be prioritizing who takes the boss down?
    If you have a Boss Killer, sure. If you don't, you work together to take it down.
  • Goken2345Goken2345 Member Posts: 621 ★★
    GroundedWisdom said:

    Goken2345 said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    It's also the number of Attackers one person can hold so then you end up penalizing teamwork beyond that.

    Wouldn’t team work also be prioritizing who takes the boss down?
    If you have a Boss Killer, sure. If you don't, you work together to take it down.
    Which wasn’t really the case here. They had about 3 users who had two or three champs with more than half health left on those champs. The first ten kills were from people with little health just hammering away at him. They probably could have shaved 15 kills off if they let people with actual health attack

  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Member Posts: 36,576 ★★★★★
    Goken2345 said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    Goken2345 said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    It's also the number of Attackers one person can hold so then you end up penalizing teamwork beyond that.

    Wouldn’t team work also be prioritizing who takes the boss down?
    If you have a Boss Killer, sure. If you don't, you work together to take it down.
    Which wasn’t really the case here. They had about 3 users who had two or three champs with more than half health left on those champs. The first ten kills were from people with little health just hammering away at him. They probably could have shaved 15 kills off if they let people with actual health attack

    Once the Attack Bonus is gone, it doesn't matter. That's the point I'm trying to convey. Defender Kills are worth nothing.
  • Goken2345Goken2345 Member Posts: 621 ★★
    GroundedWisdom said:

    Goken2345 said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    Goken2345 said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    It's also the number of Attackers one person can hold so then you end up penalizing teamwork beyond that.

    Wouldn’t team work also be prioritizing who takes the boss down?
    If you have a Boss Killer, sure. If you don't, you work together to take it down.
    Which wasn’t really the case here. They had about 3 users who had two or three champs with more than half health left on those champs. The first ten kills were from people with little health just hammering away at him. They probably could have shaved 15 kills off if they let people with actual health attack

    Once the Attack Bonus is gone, it doesn't matter. That's the point I'm trying to convey. Defender Kills are worth nothing.
    They should be worth something. These guys clearly didn’t care about attack bonus which is antithetical to the point of having an attack bonus
  • SummonerNRSummonerNR Member, Guardian Posts: 12,836 Guardian
    Goken2345 said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    Goken2345 said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    Goken2345 said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    It's also the number of Attackers one person can hold so then you end up penalizing teamwork beyond that.

    Wouldn’t team work also be prioritizing who takes the boss down?
    If you have a Boss Killer, sure. If you don't, you work together to take it down.
    Which wasn’t really the case here. They had about 3 users who had two or three champs with more than half health left on those champs. The first ten kills were from people with little health just hammering away at him. They probably could have shaved 15 kills off if they let people with actual health attack

    Once the Attack Bonus is gone, it doesn't matter. That's the point I'm trying to convey. Defender Kills are worth nothing.
    They should be worth something. These guys clearly didn’t care about attack bonus which is antithetical to the point of having an attack bonus
    They may have cared about Attack Bonus, only so long as there was some Attack Bonus potential left to get.
    After that, doesn’t matter, could be using up expiring Revives, etc.

    If Attack Bonus were expanded to more than 3, they you would NOT have seen them do as many attempts, and you WOULDN'T have had 22 kills from that node.

    (That said, maybe Boss node should be a little higher, like maybe 5 total Attack Bonus. But keep it at 3 for all other nodes).
  • LormifLormif Member Posts: 7,369 ★★★★★
    Goken2345 said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    Goken2345 said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    Goken2345 said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    It's also the number of Attackers one person can hold so then you end up penalizing teamwork beyond that.

    Wouldn’t team work also be prioritizing who takes the boss down?
    If you have a Boss Killer, sure. If you don't, you work together to take it down.
    Which wasn’t really the case here. They had about 3 users who had two or three champs with more than half health left on those champs. The first ten kills were from people with little health just hammering away at him. They probably could have shaved 15 kills off if they let people with actual health attack

    Once the Attack Bonus is gone, it doesn't matter. That's the point I'm trying to convey. Defender Kills are worth nothing.
    They should be worth something. These guys clearly didn’t care about attack bonus which is antithetical to the point of having an attack bonus
    except they did care about the attack bonus, until it was all gone, after that it is free for all. It does not make it antithetical to having it in general though.
  • Maltyo9Maltyo9 Member Posts: 270 ★★★
    I don't think it's that they didn't care about Attack Bonus...I can't imagine they were intentionally throwing bodies at your Apocalypse without a care in the world. They may have just known they weren't going to get any bonus regardless and decided to let the less experienced players have a crack at it. That's how you develop boss-killers if you don't have them.

  • LordSmasherLordSmasher Member Posts: 1,584 ★★★★★
    Maltyo9 said:

    I don't think it's that they didn't care about Attack Bonus...I can't imagine they were intentionally throwing bodies at your Apocalypse without a care in the world. They may have just known they weren't going to get any bonus regardless and decided to let the less experienced players have a crack at it. That's how you develop boss-killers if you don't have them.

    Agree. As the boss killer in my alliance I make an assessment if I can get it down in 1 or 2 tries. If I can't , or the result doesn't matter, we let the other players lemmings on it.
  • LordSmasherLordSmasher Member Posts: 1,584 ★★★★★
    I should add I don't want more deaths to count. It just makes certain nodes/combinations even more critical to the result.
  • Goken2345Goken2345 Member Posts: 621 ★★
    LordSmasher said:

    I should add I don't want more deaths to count. It just makes certain nodes/combinations even more critical to the result.

    I get what you’re saying but 20+ deaths on one node is ridiculous
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