If Guillotine wins, maybe just a tune up would be fine

Tano177Tano177 Member Posts: 41 ★
in General Discussion
I voted Ant-Man because I think Guillotine is already an alright champion. If she got like a bump on her damage and a utility mechanich she would be perfect. I'm saying this because the poll post says that they're all getting overhaulled.

Let's leave Kabam think of this.

Comments

  • UnknownUnknown
    edited April 2021
    This content has been removed.
  • Tano177Tano177 Member Posts: 41 ★
    TrashyPanda said:

    Her souls mechanic needs a complete rework unless you only want to fight low-HP opponents. That right there would take her beyond Update and into Overhaul territory imo. -- I also think she a fateseal would be appropriate for her character, since we're stick with class archetypes anyways.

    Right now it looks like Guilly vs. Ant-Man, which is win-win for me so I'm happy. Ant-Man should win unless AM voters get lazy in the arena.

    In that case that would be like a moderate buff like Vulture's or Crossbones's don't you think? I mean if they overhaul her that would mean a complete change to her whole kit and I don't think that's necessary
  • SaiyanSaiyan Member Posts: 727 ★★★★
    TrashyPanda said:

    Her souls mechanic needs a complete rework unless you only want to fight low-HP opponents. That right there would take her beyond Update and into Overhaul territory imo. -- I also think she a fateseal would be appropriate for her character, since we're stick with class archetypes anyways.

    Right now it looks like Guilly vs. Ant-Man, which is win-win for me so I'm happy. Ant-Man should win unless AM voters get lazy in the arena.

    I disagree with you. I've been always liked Guilly and played with her all the time. Even threw in some sig stones to a 5 star to test the difference myself.

    A tune up is pretty much what she would need. In the style of Moleman, Kingpin or Angela.

    - Her souls gotta last longer
    - More ways to get souls
    - Her bleeds if you're lucky to get some are actually still quite strong in 2021 but unreliable to get
    - Buff her sig to be more useful with life steal (probably just a boost to the actual chance to life steal from 10% to at least 25%)
    - I agree with some sort of buff nullify and fate seal is a good way
    - Remove her SP2 eating souls cuz outside of regen fights it's worst to use
    - General up to date utility for how the game is today

    At the same time she IS a good champ currently but she does require some synergies to be great tho. Her SP3 without a damage cap is by far the strongest SP3 in game and it's not even close since it's a percentage based attack so even if the enemy has over a trillion health, with no damage cap, with 50 souls she ends them in one go. She can't do this without synergies tho (but she sure can with synergies, it's fun to use a 2 star in ROL just to see the health bar just die in 1 attack). She has a very long reach which in some cases can be useful (intercepting with lights or otherwise). Her animations are still very smooth and quite nice to use (yes this is a pro or con for champs to me).
  • Steam97Steam97 Member Posts: 264 ★★★
    Saiyan said:

    TrashyPanda said:

    Her souls mechanic needs a complete rework unless you only want to fight low-HP opponents. That right there would take her beyond Update and into Overhaul territory imo. -- I also think she a fateseal would be appropriate for her character, since we're stick with class archetypes anyways.

    Right now it looks like Guilly vs. Ant-Man, which is win-win for me so I'm happy. Ant-Man should win unless AM voters get lazy in the arena.

    I disagree with you. I've been always liked Guilly and played with her all the time. Even threw in some sig stones to a 5 star to test the difference myself.

    A tune up is pretty much what she would need. In the style of Moleman, Kingpin or Angela.

    - Her souls gotta last longer
    - More ways to get souls
    - Her bleeds if you're lucky to get some are actually still quite strong in 2021 but unreliable to get
    - Buff her sig to be more useful with life steal (probably just a boost to the actual chance to life steal from 10% to at least 25%)
    - I agree with some sort of buff nullify and fate seal is a good way
    - Remove her SP2 eating souls cuz outside of regen fights it's worst to use
    - General up to date utility for how the game is today

    At the same time she IS a good champ currently but she does require some synergies to be great tho. Her SP3 without a damage cap is by far the strongest SP3 in game and it's not even close since it's a percentage based attack so even if the enemy has over a trillion health, with no damage cap, with 50 souls she ends them in one go. She can't do this without synergies tho (but she sure can with synergies, it's fun to use a 2 star in ROL just to see the health bar just die in 1 attack). She has a very long reach which in some cases can be useful (intercepting with lights or otherwise). Her animations are still very smooth and quite nice to use (yes this is a pro or con for champs to me).
    Well you listed a lot of things to change and a moderate update is definitely not enough. She needs an overhaul to give her a solid kit usable for something in endgame content, right now her only possible use is heal reversal and is not even that solid considering it is not even consisting for the souls use and if u see her kit in game is like 6 rows of almost nothing.
  • Raichu626Raichu626 Member Posts: 934 ★★★★
    Saiyan said:


    A tune up is pretty much what she would need. In the style of Moleman, Kingpin or Angela.


    - More ways to get souls


    - I agree with some sort of buff nullify and fate seal is a good way

    - General up to date utility for how the game is today

    Deep philosophical question for you and everyone:

    If you rework most of a champion's mechanics, but call it a tune-up, is it a tune-up or an overhaul?

    (Seriously, whenever there's a discussion about buffs anywhere, I'm left wondering what exactly people think a tune-up is)
  • SaiyanSaiyan Member Posts: 727 ★★★★
    Steam97 said:

    Saiyan said:

    TrashyPanda said:

    Her souls mechanic needs a complete rework unless you only want to fight low-HP opponents. That right there would take her beyond Update and into Overhaul territory imo. -- I also think she a fateseal would be appropriate for her character, since we're stick with class archetypes anyways.

    Right now it looks like Guilly vs. Ant-Man, which is win-win for me so I'm happy. Ant-Man should win unless AM voters get lazy in the arena.

    I disagree with you. I've been always liked Guilly and played with her all the time. Even threw in some sig stones to a 5 star to test the difference myself.

    A tune up is pretty much what she would need. In the style of Moleman, Kingpin or Angela.

    - Her souls gotta last longer
    - More ways to get souls
    - Her bleeds if you're lucky to get some are actually still quite strong in 2021 but unreliable to get
    - Buff her sig to be more useful with life steal (probably just a boost to the actual chance to life steal from 10% to at least 25%)
    - I agree with some sort of buff nullify and fate seal is a good way
    - Remove her SP2 eating souls cuz outside of regen fights it's worst to use
    - General up to date utility for how the game is today

    At the same time she IS a good champ currently but she does require some synergies to be great tho. Her SP3 without a damage cap is by far the strongest SP3 in game and it's not even close since it's a percentage based attack so even if the enemy has over a trillion health, with no damage cap, with 50 souls she ends them in one go. She can't do this without synergies tho (but she sure can with synergies, it's fun to use a 2 star in ROL just to see the health bar just die in 1 attack). She has a very long reach which in some cases can be useful (intercepting with lights or otherwise). Her animations are still very smooth and quite nice to use (yes this is a pro or con for champs to me).
    Well you listed a lot of things to change and a moderate update is definitely not enough. She needs an overhaul to give her a solid kit usable for something in endgame content, right now her only possible use is heal reversal and is not even that solid considering it is not even consisting for the souls use and if u see her kit in game is like 6 rows of almost nothing.
    Steam97 said:

    Saiyan said:

    TrashyPanda said:

    Her souls mechanic needs a complete rework unless you only want to fight low-HP opponents. That right there would take her beyond Update and into Overhaul territory imo. -- I also think she a fateseal would be appropriate for her character, since we're stick with class archetypes anyways.

    Right now it looks like Guilly vs. Ant-Man, which is win-win for me so I'm happy. Ant-Man should win unless AM voters get lazy in the arena.

    I disagree with you. I've been always liked Guilly and played with her all the time. Even threw in some sig stones to a 5 star to test the difference myself.

    A tune up is pretty much what she would need. In the style of Moleman, Kingpin or Angela.

    - Her souls gotta last longer
    - More ways to get souls
    - Her bleeds if you're lucky to get some are actually still quite strong in 2021 but unreliable to get
    - Buff her sig to be more useful with life steal (probably just a boost to the actual chance to life steal from 10% to at least 25%)
    - I agree with some sort of buff nullify and fate seal is a good way
    - Remove her SP2 eating souls cuz outside of regen fights it's worst to use
    - General up to date utility for how the game is today

    At the same time she IS a good champ currently but she does require some synergies to be great tho. Her SP3 without a damage cap is by far the strongest SP3 in game and it's not even close since it's a percentage based attack so even if the enemy has over a trillion health, with no damage cap, with 50 souls she ends them in one go. She can't do this without synergies tho (but she sure can with synergies, it's fun to use a 2 star in ROL just to see the health bar just die in 1 attack). She has a very long reach which in some cases can be useful (intercepting with lights or otherwise). Her animations are still very smooth and quite nice to use (yes this is a pro or con for champs to me).
    Well you listed a lot of things to change and a moderate update is definitely not enough. She needs an overhaul to give her a solid kit usable for something in endgame content, right now her only possible use is heal reversal and is not even that solid considering it is not even consisting for the souls use and if u see her kit in game is like 6 rows of almost nothing.
    I mean that's fair but and overhaul alot of times gets rid of how the champ was in general and I'm saying she has alot of good right now they just need to expand on that. Hulkbuster, Colossus, Mags, Civil Warrior, DDHK, Yellowjacket are VERY different than they were and in some cases some things were removed to be worse like Yellowjackets power sting damage or DDHK.

    I'd prefer they keep her main kit as is but expand to make her 2022 ready.

    What I mean is as an example of a champ that is considered bad, OG Cap America. They will give him a full rework probably but I hope to god his sig ability and main blocking skills stay the same but instead expanded instead like Angela (but she wasn't a full rework I know) because Caps sig is actually useful (I'm the owner of a Sig 200 R5 OG Cap so I know first hand).
  • Austin555555Austin555555 Member Posts: 3,048 ★★★★★
    Why can’t we get an overhaul for both so everyone is happy? I know that would take a while but i think it would be worth it in the end
  • SaiyanSaiyan Member Posts: 727 ★★★★
    Raichu626 said:

    Saiyan said:


    A tune up is pretty much what she would need. In the style of Moleman, Kingpin or Angela.


    - More ways to get souls


    - I agree with some sort of buff nullify and fate seal is a good way

    - General up to date utility for how the game is today

    Deep philosophical question for you and everyone:

    If you rework most of a champion's mechanics, but call it a tune-up, is it a tune-up or an overhaul?

    (Seriously, whenever there's a discussion about buffs anywhere, I'm left wondering what exactly people think a tune-up is)
    Fair question. I'd say overhaul is a change to how the champ is and plays overall with many many changes to their entire kit mostly because the champs themselves are VERY outdated (Mags, Col, BP, Hulkbuster, etc).

    Updates are more of an expansion of what they can already do (Kingpin, Crossbones, etc) where the champs actually have some good stuff going on but they may need alittle extra. In some cases even with new abilities added in to make them more relevant (Angela).

    Tune up are for champs are are actually decent or good but missinig that little extra (P2099, Masacre, Moleman, Terrax).

    I know exactly what I want from a Guilly buff. I know the champ and what she can and can't do. Alot of players seem to want a brand new champ while I want her abilities to stay the same at base with some changes and maybe something or two that's new.
  • IcePickIcePick Member Posts: 212 ★
    She needs a tune-up. They aren’t going to make her beyond god tier since we already have g2099 and it would be overkill.

    Ant-man needs a HUGE tuneup to the point you actually look forward to pulling him. He is a key part of the marvel film universe and should at least be as much fun as wasp (who is very simple)

  • DNA3000DNA3000 Member, Guardian Posts: 19,841 Guardian
    These terms ("value" "moderate" and "overhaul") are more technical terms for the devs than they map directly to player-facing expectations. Even the devs might quibble over the precise meaning of them, but in general my understanding is that a value update primarily tweaks the numerical values of abilities that are already there, in ways that do not dramatically change the way the champion works. Updates are changes to the champion's overall kit, either through additions, modifications, or deletions. Moderate updates are somewhere in the fuzzy middle.

    The difference between moderate and overhaul has more to do with how much work Kabam needs to put into the change: the terms are in part balancing the scheduling of updates. They can only do so many overhauls. And what takes the most time is when they either change or add champion features that themselves function in a not-straight forward manner and thus require more thought and testing.

    Guillotine is going to get an update if she wins, because Guillotine has so little kit in the first place. Her SP1 doesn't even do anything at all. Her soul mechanics are incompatible with the way higher difficulty fights are designed. These kinds of changes immediately elevate Guillotine into the overhaul category, because if you're going to fiddle with her soul mechanics to make them work better in longer fights, that's automatically something that will require a lot more balancing time and testing for effectiveness.

    The recent experience with Hood should suggest that the devs would try to preserve the best core mechanics of the champion, so she isn't just going to be turned into something completely different. But whatever they add will be sufficient to make the change into an overhaul.
  • Zeronaut81Zeronaut81 Member Posts: 290 ★★
    Saiyan said:

    TrashyPanda said:

    Her souls mechanic needs a complete rework unless you only want to fight low-HP opponents. That right there would take her beyond Update and into Overhaul territory imo. -- I also think she a fateseal would be appropriate for her character, since we're stick with class archetypes anyways.

    Right now it looks like Guilly vs. Ant-Man, which is win-win for me so I'm happy. Ant-Man should win unless AM voters get lazy in the arena.

    I disagree with you. I've been always liked Guilly and played with her all the time. Even threw in some sig stones to a 5 star to test the difference myself.

    A tune up is pretty much what she would need. In the style of Moleman, Kingpin or Angela.

    - Her souls gotta last longer
    - More ways to get souls
    - Her bleeds if you're lucky to get some are actually still quite strong in 2021 but unreliable to get
    - Buff her sig to be more useful with life steal (probably just a boost to the actual chance to life steal from 10% to at least 25%)
    - I agree with some sort of buff nullify and fate seal is a good way
    - Remove her SP2 eating souls cuz outside of regen fights it's worst to use
    - General up to date utility for how the game is today

    At the same time she IS a good champ currently but she does require some synergies to be great tho. Her SP3 without a damage cap is by far the strongest SP3 in game and it's not even close since it's a percentage based attack so even if the enemy has over a trillion health, with no damage cap, with 50 souls she ends them in one go. She can't do this without synergies tho (but she sure can with synergies, it's fun to use a 2 star in ROL just to see the health bar just die in 1 attack). She has a very long reach which in some cases can be useful (intercepting with lights or otherwise). Her animations are still very smooth and quite nice to use (yes this is a pro or con for champs to me).
    She had these things, they just are accessed through synergies. She can get more souls via synergies with Ronin & Gamora. Get souls last longer via Morningstar and Strife. This isn’t a viable questing team, but she is a pretty dang good with these synergies (I throw in Night Thrasher for the increased crit rate per soul). If her kit changed to add some of these synergy bonuses to her basic abilities, she could be awesome.

    I like to take Guilly through RoL with MS, Gamora, Ronin, and NT. She can stack souls relatively quickly, as long as you only spam sp1. Her damage gets better over time, and she has some crazy regen (rng reliant). but even with an optimal team, she could use some love. She’s a really fun champ, but she’s a bit dated.
  • Steam97Steam97 Member Posts: 264 ★★★
    Saiyan said:

    Raichu626 said:

    Saiyan said:


    A tune up is pretty much what she would need. In the style of Moleman, Kingpin or Angela.


    - More ways to get souls


    - I agree with some sort of buff nullify and fate seal is a good way

    - General up to date utility for how the game is today

    Deep philosophical question for you and everyone:

    If you rework most of a champion's mechanics, but call it a tune-up, is it a tune-up or an overhaul?

    (Seriously, whenever there's a discussion about buffs anywhere, I'm left wondering what exactly people think a tune-up is)
    Fair question. I'd say overhaul is a change to how the champ is and plays overall with many many changes to their entire kit mostly because the champs themselves are VERY outdated (Mags, Col, BP, Hulkbuster, etc).

    Updates are more of an expansion of what they can already do (Kingpin, Crossbones, etc) where the champs actually have some good stuff going on but they may need alittle extra. In some cases even with new abilities added in to make them more relevant (Angela).

    Tune up are for champs are are actually decent or good but missinig that little extra (P2099, Masacre, Moleman, Terrax).

    I know exactly what I want from a Guilly buff. I know the champ and what she can and can't do. Alot of players seem to want a brand new champ while I want her abilities to stay the same at base with some changes and maybe something or two that's new.
    Guillotine doesn't have a real kit like kingpin or crossbones, I mean her kit is so outdated and is seriously 10 rows maximum and there are also useless things in those, the terms used are only an indication of the time used by kabam and she needs a lot of love. You say that you want her abilites to stay the same but what are her abilites lol, I mean her only real ability is the heal reversal on sp2, the entire soul system on her own sucks and can only be decent with a full team of synergies incompatible with all the endgame content.
  • Tano177Tano177 Member Posts: 41 ★
    Just to be clear I may have confused tune up with moderate...
  • DNA3000DNA3000 Member, Guardian Posts: 19,841 Guardian
    Steam97 said:

    Saiyan said:

    Raichu626 said:

    Saiyan said:


    A tune up is pretty much what she would need. In the style of Moleman, Kingpin or Angela.


    - More ways to get souls


    - I agree with some sort of buff nullify and fate seal is a good way

    - General up to date utility for how the game is today

    Deep philosophical question for you and everyone:

    If you rework most of a champion's mechanics, but call it a tune-up, is it a tune-up or an overhaul?

    (Seriously, whenever there's a discussion about buffs anywhere, I'm left wondering what exactly people think a tune-up is)
    Fair question. I'd say overhaul is a change to how the champ is and plays overall with many many changes to their entire kit mostly because the champs themselves are VERY outdated (Mags, Col, BP, Hulkbuster, etc).

    Updates are more of an expansion of what they can already do (Kingpin, Crossbones, etc) where the champs actually have some good stuff going on but they may need alittle extra. In some cases even with new abilities added in to make them more relevant (Angela).

    Tune up are for champs are are actually decent or good but missinig that little extra (P2099, Masacre, Moleman, Terrax).

    I know exactly what I want from a Guilly buff. I know the champ and what she can and can't do. Alot of players seem to want a brand new champ while I want her abilities to stay the same at base with some changes and maybe something or two that's new.
    Guillotine doesn't have a real kit like kingpin or crossbones, I mean her kit is so outdated and is seriously 10 rows maximum and there are also useless things in those, the terms used are only an indication of the time used by kabam and she needs a lot of love. You say that you want her abilites to stay the same but what are her abilites lol, I mean her only real ability is the heal reversal on sp2, the entire soul system on her own sucks and can only be decent with a full team of synergies incompatible with all the endgame content.
    In any update of Guillotine I would want to preserve her heal reversal and her health steal. I would probably want to diversify her soul acquisition mechanics and add alternate soul-powered effects to things like SP1.
  • DarkKnyghtDarkKnyght Member Posts: 12 ★
    edited May 2021
    I like her base kit, I have a duped 6* rank 2 Guilly. She just needs to do more with her souls and more ways to collect. Her bleed is pretty strong and she can hit pretty hard, but that depends on soul count. When the opponent has a large health pool, it’s very hard to get that 6% down quick enough to ramp up damage, even with synergies.

    So maybe the souls shouldn’t expire or Maybe get a soul every 5-10 hits to empower the sword and critical damage still scales with amount of souls. Spend a soul to nullify a buff on heavy attack, All her specials can stay the same, Sp1 just needs to hit harder. Her Regeneration is already pretty good, although very unpredictable.
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